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Alitalia Plans ICN, AUH, JNB, DEL In 2012/2013  
User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7046 times:

After the launch of Amman, Los Angeles in 2010, Beijing and Rio de Janeiro this year (as of June), Alitalia is planning to introduce 2 new long-haul routes in 2012 too (Seoul, Abu Dhabi) and other 2 in 2013 (Delhi, Johannesburg) out of Rome.


(Italian only)
http://www.ttgitalia.it/pagine/Alita...IT,269124,Notizie_del001-news.aspx
http://notizie.virgilio.it/notizie/e...ern_da_giugno_volo_2,28361379.html

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineatalanta89 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2009, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6833 times:

Great news. Hope to see the A350 in the near future on this route.

User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1526 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6823 times:

Let's hope it actually happens !

User currently offlineatalanta89 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2009, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6801 times:

By the way, i think that Abu Dhabi will be a successful route. But in my opinion they have to operate this flight from MXP.

User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4852 posts, RR: 44
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6748 times:

AZ will operate FCO AUH and code share with EY on it and beyond to Asia/Australia/PAK/CMB/DAC/India where as EY will operate MXP AUH and code share with AZ. Tit for tat arrangement !

User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7633 posts, RR: 42
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6600 times:

Quoting behramjee (Reply 4):
AZ will operate FCO AUH and code share with EY on it and beyond to Asia/Australia/PAK/CMB/DAC/India where as EY will operate MXP AUH and code share with AZ. Tit for tat arrangement !

Sounds smart and promising to me. I must say I am very happy to see the new AZ growing slowly but firmly.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineatalanta89 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2009, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6600 times:

thanks for the clarification.

User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6381 times:

AZ needs to increase their presence in the middle east and eastern europe because I believe FCO has the potential to be a great connecting point for those places. The first thing they can do is increase their frequencies to AMM, OTP, and SOF. Whats the point of having all these long-haul flights if there is no feed for them?

User currently offlineyowza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4919 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6341 times:

I don't know that FCO-AUH constitutes longhaul but it's great to see AZ rolling the dice a bit more. The tie up with EY should also ensure the success of this route.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineaflyingkiwi From New Zealand, joined Nov 2010, 517 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6279 times:

AZ codeshare with fellow Skyteam member KE on the FCO-ICN route so I'm not sure that this route is the smartest to start just yet. Never the less, It's good to see AZ planning these routes and hopefully we'll see them start it.

Regards,
aflyingkiwi


User currently offlineswissair4ever From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6140 times:

I think a resumption of FCO-BOM would be wiser than FCO-DEL.

Loads on the BOM flight were much stronger overall with pax/cargo than the DEL flight.

AZ served BOM continuous for a number of years longer than DEL which saw on/off service over the years.


User currently offlineatalanta89 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2009, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6115 times:

Quoting swissair4ever (Reply 10):
I think a resumption of FCO-BOM would be wiser than FCO-DEL.

I complitely agree with you.


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6094 times:

Does anyone know when the new international pier will be completed in FCO?

User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27337 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5983 times:

Interesting to see them back into DEL if all goes to plan. I remember when they operated NRT-DEL-FCO with a B747-200

User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5950 times:

Quoting swissair4ever (Reply 10):
I think a resumption of FCO-BOM would be wiser than FCO-DEL.

Loads on the BOM flight were much stronger overall with pax/cargo than the DEL flight.

AZ served BOM continuous for a number of years longer than DEL which saw on/off service over the years.

Maybe we have to look at the big picture, considering the closer cooperation Alitalia-Jet Airways which is expected in the near future.
With 9W flying now between DEL-MXP, with the same Indian carrier likely to open up BOM-FCO this year, in this way DEL-FCO op by AZ would complement the 9W's Italy-India routes in order to connect with USA/Canada/Europe network provided by AZ (mainly from FCO).

[Edited 2011-02-17 12:57:55]

User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4852 posts, RR: 44
Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5885 times:

I dont know how and why AZ fared better with BOM-FCO versus DEL-FCO when the O&D traffic volume last year was 68,000 pax DEL-FCO versus 29,000 pax BOM-FCO.

DEL-MXP is however the biggest Italy-India market segment with 83,000 pax flying it last year and due to its huge O&D volume + large onward demand to Colombo, Dhaka and Bangkok is the reason why 9W chose to fly it first before Rome!


User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4852 posts, RR: 44
Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5852 times:

With regards to the routes being planned, this is what one for sees:

A 332s being used on DEL/AUH/JNB

B 772ERs being used on ICN-FCO.

However, one does not see the need one bit for AZ to remotely consider flying to JNB due to its long distance, low yield and ultra competitiveness to/from Europe/North America! AUH-FCO will largely rely on 95% transit traffic in both directions rather than a mixture of O&D + Flow. ICN has been obviously chosen due to it being a key Sky Team hub + huge cargo potential.


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8632 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5824 times:
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Quoting behramjee (Reply 16):
However, one does not see the need one bit for AZ to remotely consider flying to JNB due to its long distance, low yield and ultra competitiveness to/from Europe/North America!

I have to admit that of all the new routes this is the one which has me scratching my head . I think they will struggle to fill this at sufficient yield to be worthwhile , still , I could be wrong .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5810 times:

What this comes down to is that I still think AZ should focus their hub operations at MXP. Moving their base to FCO has proven to be a big mistake, all the high yield long-haul traffic is based in MXP and Northern Italy. Plus MXP is better situated to be a connecting hub becuase of its good central location, FCO is just too far south.

[Edited 2011-02-17 13:35:11]

User currently offlineoa412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5373 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5671 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 18):
Moving their base to FCO has proven to be a big mistake

Has it? Do you have numbers to back this up?

Quoting miaintl (Reply 18):
all the high yield long-haul traffic is based in MXP and Northern Italy.

All of it? Nothing from FCO? For all of the industry and wealth in Northern Italy, MXP has, for instance, been able to support only a small handful of routes to the US. Right now, you can only get to NYC, MIA, and ATL nonstop from MXP. And, let's face it, without Skyteam feed to help out ATL, you'd probably only have the links to NYC and MIA.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5636 times:

Quoting oa412 (Reply 19):

I'm just saying MXP was a great hub back when AZ had a sizable presence there. MXP long haul flights work well when they have feed which is why I suggest AZ abandons their FCO and LIN bases and focus all their intl and domestic operations from MXP.


User currently offlineRafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5600 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 18):
Plus MXP is better situated to be a connecting hub becuase of its good central location, FCO is just too far south.

Well, actually FCO does make sense as a transit point for AUH, DEL and JNB.


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5511 times:

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 21):

What kind of hub did AZ have at FCO back in the 90's, how big was their Africa/Middle East network back then?


User currently offlineDTWLAX From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 821 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5412 times:

Quoting LIPZ (Thread starter):
2 new long-haul routes in 2012 too (Seoul, Abu Dhabi)

Italy - Abu Dhabi is not long-haul.

Also does service to DEL offer any advantages for connections to North America when compared to AMS or CDG?


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3339 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5406 times:

Quoting behramjee (Reply 4):
AZ will operate FCO AUH and code share with EY on it and beyond to Asia/Australia/PAK/CMB/DAC/India where as EY will operate MXP AUH and code share with AZ. Tit for tat arrangement !

EY have been very clever in their Europe-Australia strategy.

They have lined up AZ and OA as codeshare partners, which positions them well for the 'older, loyal' VFR market, and are also tapping into V Australia for feed from Australia to Europe.

clever move in my opinion..


25 alitalia610 : Yea,MXP hub was so great that bringed AZ to the edge of bankruptcy... Moving to MXP was a nightmare for AZ back in 2000. They had profit in '98 and '
26 atalanta89 : I complitely disagree with you. Do you know the conditions that had offered AF/KLM? Fortunately, AZ didn't accept. Of course, without AZ, Easyjet sta
27 alitalia610 : You disagree. Ok,so tell me why. The numbers in the history of AZ financial situation are there and they say that after 1999(so after they moved the
28 miaintl : The MXP hub was created in 1998 not 1999. The real reason AZ did not make money during those years is because it tried to maintain 3 hubs instead of
29 Viscount724 : European carriers generally consider routes like the Gulf as longhaul.
30 alitalia610 : Yea,you are right. But the fact is that AZ was simply forced to maintain both FCO and LIN cause it coudn't do otherwise! You can't just leave FCO wit
31 miaintl : Yes, thats why i think they should close the LIN base and move all the AZ operations from there to MXP.
32 Rafabozzolla : Politics, politics, politics... over business sense. In Munich the old airport was simply closed down. If LIN had been shut, MXP would have had a cha
33 United Airline : What about HKG? Will they ever return?
34 Post contains links LIPZ : It would not be easy for AZ to compete with CX (which flies to both FCO and MXP), however they might try to offer an evening departure from FCO (wher
35 LIPZ : Well, LOS-ACC route flown by AZ is considered as part of their long-haul network. The same was when AZ operated till 2008 FCO-DXB.
36 SepulTALLICA : FCO - JNB = Ballin. I look forward to giving their offering a go in the not too distant future. Hopefully, their service this time round won't suck as
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