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TP MIA-LIS Preformance Predictions  
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1052 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3755 times:

TP is commencing new 5-weekly service to MIA this summer. What is everyones take on the success of this route? I think IB/AA might try to push TP out of the market because they may not want competition on the Iberian peninsula. AA is going double daily to MAD this summer so what impact what that have on TP? I think the route will do fine since Portugal has strong cultural ties to Miami but in the end all remains to be seen.

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesantos From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 741 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3751 times:

I posted this on the Portuguese aviation news thread:
In another news all previous routes announced have shown strong booking numbers, specially Miami.
Over 54.000 bookings already for the recent routes announced:
Miami-12.947 5 Weekly Service
Vienna-12.590 5 Weekly Service
Dusselfdorf- 10.582 5 Weekly service
Athens-10.071 5 Weekly Service
Manchester- 5.523 5 Weekly Servie
Dubrovnik-2.265 1 Weekly Service
Bordeaux-2.249 Daily
http://www.presstur.com/site/news.asp?news=29228

And the thread should be LIS-MIA not MIA-LIS.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17690 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3709 times:

Why such a late departure out of LIS? Seems like quite a competitive disadvantage.

Quoting santos (Reply 1):
And the thread should be LIS-MIA not MIA-LIS.

Is there a difference?  



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinesantos From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 741 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3686 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
Is there a difference?

There is:
As they are opening Lisbon to Miami
Plane will always return to it's base- LIS

Same applies to KL, BA,LH etc..

DL will be opening MIA-LHR, this time the plane/route will originate from Miami.


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1052 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3681 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):

I actually think the late departure will serve this flight well, since it allows for good connections and feed. On a separate note, a late departure that might work against a certain flight is the upcoming MIA-AMS flight with KL.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8511 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3444 times:

This flight should do fine regardless of what AA/IB do. I find Portugal-US to be severely under served. If you look at fares between the US and other European cities, LIS is relatively high due to the shortage of capacity. Great for the airlines but bad for passengers. Hopefully the addition of this flight plus the announced frequency increase from UA should give consumers slightly lower fares.

User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1052 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3348 times:

Whats the size of the Miami-Portuguese population? I have no doubt that this flight will preform well since MIA-Southern Europe is a strong market but i wonder what impact it will have on budget carriers like UX.

[Edited 2011-02-17 14:37:40]

User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4035 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3335 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 6):
Whats the size of the Miami-Portuguese population? I have no doubt that this flight will preform well since MIA-Southern Europe is a strong market but i wonder what impact it will have on budget carriers like UX.

No doubt it will be full, but the transatlantic market is notorious for full flights that do not last because they lose money.

TAP may be selling a large number of tickets, but that is no indication the service will be sustained.



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User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1052 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3290 times:

Quoting incitatus (Reply 7):

A good example is MIA-MUC, that flight was completely overbooked when i flew it last summer but now its being cut. By Trans-Atlantic market do you just mean from Miami or Trans-Atlantic in general? I also wonder if KL is having strong pre-bookings for its upcoming MIA flight.

[Edited 2011-02-17 15:22:01]

User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3402 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3140 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 8):
A good example is MIA-MUC, that flight was completely overbooked when i flew it last summer but now its being cut. By Trans-Atlantic market do you just mean from Miami or Trans-Atlantic in general? I also wonder if KL is having strong pre-bookings for its upcoming MIA flight.

Can you please stop bringing that up in every thread even tangentially related to MIA? It is a seasonal reduction brought on by a lack of aircraft.


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1052 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3121 times:

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 9):

YUL said so otherwise but my mistake, anyway whats your take on tis new TP flight?


User currently offlineMIASkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3046 times:

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 9):

Can you please stop bringing that up in every thread even tangentially related to MIA? It is a seasonal reduction brought on by a lack of aircraft.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. Certain routes in Miami are seasonal...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8511 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2861 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 8):
A good example is MIA-MUC, that flight was completely overbooked when i flew it last summer but now its being cut.

Apples and Oranges. LH/LX already serve multiple US cities. TP only serves EWR and are by most means a very conservative airline. I don't think for a second that they would venture into MIA without having done the homework and knowing with a certain degree of certainty that it will work.


User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4035 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2774 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 5):
I find Portugal-US to be severely under served. If you look at fares between the US and other European cities, LIS is relatively high due to the shortage of capacity.

What are you comparing LIS with? Is it CDG, LHR, MAD, ZRH, DUB, BCN, BRU? These are all much larger markets. Try BUD, WAW, LYS, PRG. The shortage of nonstop capacity is natural of smaller markets frequently connected to big hubs.



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User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8511 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2757 times:

Quoting incitatus (Reply 13):
What are you comparing LIS with? Is it CDG, LHR, MAD, ZRH, DUB, BCN, BRU? These are all much larger markets. Try BUD, WAW, LYS, PRG. The shortage of nonstop capacity is natural of smaller markets frequently connected to big hubs.

I'm comparing fares, not market. Fare prices are subject to the law of supply and demand regardless of the size of the market. If the planes are going out full airlines have no incentive to reduce fares. That applies whether it's a 100ppd market or a 1000ppd market. But yes, generaly speaking I'm talking about secondary cities in Europe because it's not really fair to compare LIS with the likes of CDG/LHR/MUC...


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17690 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2745 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 4):
I actually think the late departure will serve this flight well, since it allows for good connections and feed

It definitely maximizes connecting opportunities, but the local market, and even the connecting European markets tend to prefer earlier departures. It's rare to see a westbound departure in the afternoon or later, other than AMS/CDG/LHR/FRA to major hubs. By the time you arrive in MIA and get through customs/immigration it's already 10-11p before you even get to your destination.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6500 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2716 times:

Quoting santos (Reply 3):
There is:
As they are opening Lisbon to Miami
Plane will always return to it's base- LIS

Same applies to KL, BA,LH etc..

DL will be opening MIA-LHR, this time the plane/route will originate from Miami.

Delta does not have a base in MIA so the aircraft will not be returning to its base when it fliesLHR/MIA the aircaft and crews on that flight are probably based in ATL. or JFK Not a valid comparison.


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1052 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2696 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):

Thats true its quite a late flight, but i think TP know what their doing it surely has to do with avalaibility of aircraft. Keep in mind MIA-AMS is also a late night departure, the flight leaves at 9 pm.


User currently offlinesantos From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 741 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2668 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 16):

But I'm sure u know what I meant! What about the AA flights? Is it AA Miami crew and aircraft?


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1052 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2596 times:

A little off topic, but does anyone know when the new Lisbon airport is opening or if they have even begun constructing it? Also how are the yields to LIS from MIA compared to MAD?

User currently offlinesantos From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 741 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2578 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 19):
A little off topic, but does anyone know when the new Lisbon airport is opening or if they have even begun constructing it? Also how are the yields to LIS from MIA compared to MAD?




You keep asking questions like this! (LH, KL, TP recently)
Airlines don't publish yields, unless you know someone within the airline there is no other way you'd find out!

Madrid and Lisbon are totally different markets, it's like comparing apples and oranges.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8511 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2554 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
By the time you arrive in MIA and get through customs/immigration it's already 10-11p before you even get to your destination.

Most of TP's TATL flights operate like this. They can do it for 2 reasons: LIS is GMT time and LIS is the closest European airport to most of the Americas. So if your final destination is Miami, this schedule is not really a problem.


User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6500 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2472 times:

Quoting santos (Reply 18):
But I'm sure u know what I meant! What about the AA flights? Is it AA Miami crew and aircraft?

You made the comment regarding Delta Not AA. And no I do not know what you meant.


User currently offlinesantos From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 741 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 22):
You made the comment regarding Delta Not AA. And no I do not know what you meant

I used Delta as an example( now i know that they don't have a base in MIA)

Maybe someone else will explain you better- it's not that hard to understand...


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1052 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2392 times:

Quoting santos (Reply 20):

In exactly what way are LIS and MAD different markets? They both cater to the same market, Southern Europe and Africa. So i fail to see how they're so different. Plus i want to know what the situation is with the New Lisbon airport.


25 santos : You just can't compare it! Both cities have different populations, IB has been flying to MIA for many years- both Madrid and Miami have huge south Am
26 miaintl : Thats my point can TP effectively compete with all AA/IB/UX have to offer from MIA? Also how is LIS as a connecting airport, from what i've heard the
27 airbazar : They are completely different. Spain is Latin American's economic engine. Miami is a huge Latin American gateway and economic engine. Miami is to Mad
28 Rafabozzolla : I guess the market is similar (business, plus VFR, plus expats, plus connections and some cultural connections through their old colonies - BR and Sp
29 miaintl : TP also has a better product than IB/AA and i think them coming to Miami might cause at least UX to leave the market.
30 Post contains images keagkid101 : I agree! Especially to BOS! I live near PVD, and let me tell you there is a huge Portuguese population, mostly from the Azores. Sometimes, I feel lik
31 miaintl : What is a bigger market to Lisbon, Boston or Miami?
32 OP3000 : To Portugal it would be BOS, but overwhelmingly to PDL in the Azores Islands (not mainland Portugal). TP does not fly to BOS, but codeshares with SAT
33 miaintl : I think the connections are only on the LIS end, i dont know of any star carriers that will feed the TP flight from MIA. This will purely be a O&
34 OP3000 : How about JJ (current *A member) and CM, AV and TA (slated to join)?
35 miaintl : JJ is pointless since TP serves all the major Brazilian market. Plus the timing of the TP flight is bad for connections on the Miami end.
36 Rafabozzolla : Do you really think so? TP offers IFE screens on all clasees, IB/AA do not, but IB does offer full flat biz seats and AA has the advantage of very ex
37 C010T3 : South America??? What are you talking about? The only SA markets that would ever connect at MIA would be from Colombia or Ecuador. That's a really ti
38 Post contains images airbazar : Boston no doubt is bigger for both O&D and connecting traffic. The schedule of this flight does not allow for many connections to South/Central A
39 keagkid101 : Boston--by far. Not necessarily "overwhelmingly". I flew S4 BOS-PDL in July, and there was a line from the check in counters to outside for the fligh
40 santos : But Boston-Portugal/Azores routes have very low yield, mainly VFR passengers, so TP does well in code sharing with S4. Flights can be full, but are th
41 Post contains links AA767400 : There's not much cultural ties between Miami, and Portugal. Competition is there, but really only for connecting traffic on the LIS side. You'll lear
42 miaintl : If BOS is such a larger market why did TP not fly there instead of Miami? I am also wondering whats causing all these carriers KL/TP to just start add
43 santos : Why do you keep asking the same questions? All the answers are already in this thread!!!!!
44 OB1504 : I wish them the best of luck, but I recognize that I don't know enough about the industry to offer a definitive analysis as to its viability. If the
45 miaintl : It will probably do well or just as good as IB's MIA-BCN, both cities are similar sized market from MIA. Plus just because professionals think a flig
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