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New Zealand Aviation Thread #92  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 18
Posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 18851 times:
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Previous thread New Zealand Aviation Thread #91 (by NZ1 Jan 28 2011 in Civil Aviation)

202 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 18889 times:
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Previous Thread

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 192):
No pre-flight drink, because the galley is behind the Y+ cabin

Maybe allow Y+ and Business pax to collect their drinks during boarding?

Quoting gasman (Reply 205):
The comments above about Y+ are spot on. Yes it's dinky, yes it's white, but ............. it's bloody uncomfortable!!

I'm short and even I found the Y+ seats from the second row back uncomfortable. The seat controls were hard to operate and I found the seat wanting to go back on me frequently when I moved


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 18869 times:
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NZ launches online taxi booking service to and from AKL, WLG, CHC and ZQN with the guarantee of the lowest available rate from the participating transport provider.

http://www.taxi.co.nz/


User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 890 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 18847 times:

A few days ago I was looking at 77E upgrade configuration possibilities and how many Y+ seats were likely. The problem was I could not find the seat pitch for the 77W Y+ rows to make calculations. Does anyone know what it is? I expect it is less than 77E. Would extra space between the rows make a difference or is the whole concept of angled seating flawed?

Sounds like something stupid has happened which they need to fix quickly, and before it is replicated in the 77E's. There are negative comments on another forum as well.


PA515


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 18815 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 1):
The seat controls were hard to operate and I found the seat wanting to go back on me frequently when I moved

You get used to them though.

Quoting PA515 (Reply 3):
Would extra space between the rows make a difference or is the whole concept of angled seating flawed?

That is the problem. Give people more room and the configuration as it stands goes out the window as nothing will be aligned. In fact, I'd wonder if it'd be more uncomfortable having your legs go on a different direction etc. Well one thing's for sure anyway - the 787 won't be getting these seats.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3033 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 18717 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 3):
A few days ago I was looking at 77E upgrade configuration possibilities and how many Y+ seats were likely. The problem was I could not find the seat pitch for the 77W Y+ rows to make calculations. Does anyone know what it is? I expect it is less than 77E.

In my experience, considerably less. If your feet are not in the box, your knees are under your chin. I think this is also why you feel like you're in a high chair when the tray is down. Incidentally, the tray is very narrow - the FAs on my flight were actually putting the food trays down lengthways; it's also too narrow to properly hold a laptop and so close to the pax that using a laptop is very awkward. All in all, an uncomfortable experience - apart from 23D/E, the most comfortable Y+ seat is in the port-side lavatory.

From the previous thread:
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 201):
Yeah but what on earth can they really sort out in the first month?

Given that the issue is the hard product, they need to start working on it fast, before pax start deserting in droves, especially once they start LAX-LHR which has a considerable yield-based niche market based on a (currently) superior product. I haven't seen a single positive review on any site since NZ5/6 started - not good!



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineA330NZ From New Zealand, joined Dec 2010, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 18536 times:

I think that they should Add in 3-4 inches more pitch, and have the seats facing forward, instead of angled. As for the pre flight drinks, I have no idea. Maybe they could already be at your seat prior to boarding?

User currently offlineNZ2 From New Zealand, joined Aug 2007, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 18161 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 5):
In my experience, considerably less. If your feet are not in the box, your knees are under your chin. I think this is also why you feel like you're in a high chair when the tray is down. Incidentally, the tray is very narrow - the FAs on my flight were actually putting the food trays down lengthways; it's also too narrow to properly hold a laptop and so close to the pax that using a laptop is very awkward. All in all, an uncomfortable experience - apart from 23D/E, the most comfortable Y+ seat is in the port-side lavatory.

From the previous thread:
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 201):
Yeah but what on earth can they really sort out in the first month?

Given that the issue is the hard product, they need to start working on it fast, before pax start deserting in droves, especially once they start LAX-LHR which has a considerable yield-based niche market based on a (currently) superior product. I haven't seen a single positive review on any site since NZ5/6 started - not good!

Agreed, though I have not yet flown the new PE the experience at the open day day does make it seem uncomfortable, and that was just a few minutes. I am looking forward to my trip in May and will comment after that. I do agree wholeheartedly that the 747 PE product was a cut above despite being old technology


User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 17852 times:

Can anyone recall what the NZ-China bilateral allows? My recollection is that it allows onward fifth freedom rights daily from one Chinese destination to one European destination in addition to the NZ-China rights, but I can't recall whether the current NZ-China sector is subject also to the seven flights a week maximum? If not, is there any current limitation? And if seven flights a week is the maximum, there must surely be moves afoot to negotiate further, or the market will stagnate.


This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlinemacilree From New Zealand, joined Dec 2006, 243 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 17787 times:

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 8):
Can anyone recall what the NZ-China bilateral allows? My recollection is that it allows onward fifth freedom rights daily from one Chinese destination to one European destination in addition to the NZ-China rights, but I can't recall whether the current NZ-China sector is subject also to the seven flights a week maximum? If not, is there any current limitation? And if seven flights a week is the maximum, there must surely be moves afoot to negotiate further, or the market will stagnate.

David, the last two media statement on the New Zealand-China air services arrangements are available here:

http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/o...s-new-air-services-agreement-china

http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/n...land-and-china-expand-air-services

By implication you can take it that capacity (frequency) is currently limited to seven passenger flights per week for the airlines of each side, there are limited passenger fifth freedom rights available, and China Southern has applied to exercise some of the frequencies available to Chinese carriers (Air China has previously used some of the Chinese frequencies). Air New Zealand has already been allocated the rights to operate seven passenger flights per week (there is a notice of the airline's application in the New Zealand Gazette to that effect that is available online - search on my surname and you will find quite a few such notices).

The frequency of freighter (cargo-only) operations is not restricted. You may be aware that Air New Zealand was for a while wet-leasing a B747F to operate a round-the-world service that included MEL - PVG - FRA where full fifth freedom rights were exercised.



John Macilree
User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 17710 times:

Quoting macilree (Reply 9):

Thanks very much John - I just wish that international air rights diplomacy wasn't quite so opaque! Though having in times past worked for many years and in many far-flung parts of the work around diplomatic negotiations myself as an NGO, I'm by no means surprised!



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 17646 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 3):
The problem was I could not find the seat pitch for the 77W Y+ rows to make calculations. Does anyone know what it is? I expect it is less than 77E

It's a closely guarded secret, but I've been informally informed by Air NZ insiders that it is actually only 33 inches.

Put differently, we've seen the airline make every effort to ensure maximum seat count per square metre in Economy class.

The old arrangement was 40 inch pitch but 9 abreast, and with the reduction to 6 abreast I cannot believe that they would have more than 34 inches between seats.


User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 890 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 17508 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 11):
Quoting PA515 (Reply 3):
The problem was I could not find the seat pitch for the 77W Y rows to make calculations. Does anyone know what it is? I expect it is less than 77E

It's a closely guarded secret, but I've been informally informed by Air NZ insiders that it is actually only 33 inches.

It's definitely more than 33".

A photo of the 41" pitch 77E Y+ shows exactly two window frames per row while a photo of the 77W Y+ shows slightly more than two window frames per row, probably about 43" pitch, but the shell design uses more space in the seat back.

Another photo of the 77W Y+ shows pax viewing screens at about a 45 degree angle to where their body is facing. That would give me a stiff neck after a while.

PA515

[Edited 2011-02-20 04:55:10]

User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3033 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 17495 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 12):
It's definitely more than 33".

Whatever the pitch is, the in-shell recline effectively reduces it by about 9". If you pull your legs out of the box, your knees are hard up against the seat in front. At one point I tried to cross my legs - impossible.

Quoting PA515 (Reply 12):
Another photo of the 77W Y+ shows pax viewing screens at about a 45 degree angle to where their body is facing. That would give me a stiff neck after a while.

The tray is also offset - I guess that's to accommodate all the pax whose left arm is shorter than their right.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 17470 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 12):
A photo of the 41" pitch 77E Y+ shows exactly two window frames per row while a photo of the 77W Y+ shows slightly more than two window frames per row, probably about 43" pitch, but the shell design uses more space in the seat back.

So why oh why didn't they just install normal seats in a 2-4-2 configuration with 40 inch pitch?

It would have been an upgrade on both the 744 and the 77E, and no worse than the 2-4-2 on V Australia and Qantas.

The product has looked suspicious from the outset, but it's been obvious since it entered service that no-one sat in it for more than a few minutes at the mock-up stage.

The airline is either going to have to rip out a row to create extra space or switch back to the old seats.

The thing in aviation is that a genuine game-changing switch only comes along every 25 years. The Premium Economy Space Seat and Economy Skycouch clearly don't fall into that category. What a shame.

What I would really like is for Air NZ to lift their long-haul fares by 10% and just have 3-3-3 economy and 2-4-2 premium economy in normal seats.


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3033 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 17454 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 14):
The airline is either going to have to rip out a row to create extra space

I don't think this will work, as the leg/foot "box" is angled to match the pitch. Greater pitch would misalign everything, including the tray.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 890 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 17420 times:

So, Air NZ will probably have to write off the whole 'Space Seat' investment. Will they have the guts to do it straight off?

I fear they will wait until it's cost them heaps of business and costs even more to fix because by then they will have 77E's with the seats. Hopefully the 77E Y+ upgrade contract is yet to be signed.

Finding a seat manufacturer to provide alternative seats quickly is going to be difficult. EVA Air had 3 77W's sitting at KPAE for about a year because their seat manufacturer went out of business and they had to wait for seats.

PA515


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 17348 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 12):
Another photo of the 77W Y+ shows pax viewing screens at about a 45 degree angle to where their body is facing. That would give me a stiff neck after a while.

You can bring the PTV screen right out to face you. It's a little in your face. I hope I can get my trip report out later this week.

Quoting PA515 (Reply 16):
So, Air NZ will probably have to write off the whole 'Space Seat' investment. Will they have the guts to do it straight off?

I think the concept is fine, it just needs some major tweaking.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineNZdsgnr From New Zealand, joined Jul 2008, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 17303 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 17):
I hope I can get my trip report out later this week.

OH now that is something to be looking forward to... glad to hear you have an attempted time frame now hahah


User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 890 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 17072 times:

Quoting NZdsgnr (Reply 18):
OH now that is something to be looking forward to... glad to hear you have an attempted time frame now hahah

Were you involved in the Kupe Project?

PA515


User currently offlineNZ2 From New Zealand, joined Aug 2007, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16992 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 12):
Another photo of the 77W Y+ shows pax viewing screens at about a 45 degree angle to where their body is facing. That would give me a stiff neck after a while.

The screen does come out but it is only a few inches from your face, well it seems like that, probably you will get used to it quick enough but it seems odd to have it that close when it is a greenfields design....


User currently offlineNZdsgnr From New Zealand, joined Jul 2008, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16827 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 19):
Were you involved in the Kupe Project?

PA515

no I have no involvement at all, i'm just a freelance graphic designer and aviation enthusiast  




On another note, I was just watching "Dirty, Sexy Money" on TV and saw an NZ 747 in the old livery, now that was a nice sight  


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7108 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 16804 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 17):
I think the concept is fine, it just needs some major tweaking

I never knew you could use the words 'Major' and 'Tweaking' in the same phrase  


User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 890 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 16758 times:

Quoting NZ2 (Reply 20):
greenfields design....

This is a term I was not familiar with, so I did a search.

From an abstract of a paper in 'Team Performance Management'.
"Greenfields are new plants - typically but not exclusively manufacturing - that belong to an existing organisation. .......
The paper finds that greenfields are frequently used to implement team based systems, with varying results. .......
Research evaluating greenfields is limited due to proprietary and competitive concerns and the reluctance to discuss failures."

Seemed appropriate.

The Air New Zealand Kupe Project Management Team created the 'Space Seat' receiving a Gold Award in the Designers Institute of New Zealand, 2010 'Best Design Awards'. It's true.

http://bestawards.co.nz/entries/prod...300-aircraft-programme-space-seat/

PA515


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3033 posts, RR: 28
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 16696 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 23):
The Air New Zealand Kupe Project Management Team created the 'Space Seat' receiving a Gold Award in the Designers Institute of New Zealand, 2010 'Best Design Awards'. It's true.

They should be condemned to sit in it for the rest of their lives. I bet the judges didn't sit in it for 13 hours, which would have been the appropriate way to determine its functionality.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
25 BlackLabel : Christchurch earthquake has impacted RADAR services, AKL ATIS is advising delays: ATIS ATIS NZAA R 0025 APCH: EXPECT ILS DME APPROACH RWY: 05R SFC CON
26 Mr AirNZ : No IFR departures nationwide at the moment. Radar centre in Christchurch is evidently still evacuated.
27 texan : South Pacific ops centre -- sorry name escapes me at the moment -- is being set up at the emergency location in Brisbane since CHC is out of action. F
28 Post contains links haggis73 : Air NZ half year profits soar 75% http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10708410 Presentation below http://media.nzhera
29 777ER : Does anyone know if the txt messaging function is avialable yet on the B77W fleet?
30 SCL767 : LAN will provide to passengers affected by the earthquake in Christchurch, New Zealand, the option to change their travel plans. Passengers holding se
31 777ER : Maybe NZ is sending the B77W to WLG to allow the pilots to get some practise landing at WLG as -OKM is coming back to WLG on March 10th for more Gold
32 texan : Thanks for the heads up! Going to try to talk some of the other people in the office to come out to the airport and watch it come in. Texan
33 NZ5 : Also ZK-OKM is doing another open day at Auckland on March 25th.
34 Boeing767-300 : I was scanning through ACARS looking for interesting ANZ movements and I noticed ANZ 744 ZK-NBW did at least four return trips from Auckland to Christ
35 KiwiRob : So are they going to ban passengers taking tape measures on board. It's wouldn't please my mum, she knits on long flights.
36 Boeing767-300 : Did anybody see ZK-OKA 772ER slip in and out of Wellington on the 24th February. According to ACARS it was on NZ6728 CHC-WLG and then returned NZ6729
37 Post contains links PA515 : Definitely a mistake. NZ2230/31 and NZ2232/33 are EagleAir 1900D flight numbers, and the runway is only 1,310 metres. http://www.eastland.co.nz/gisbo
38 Post contains links NZ5 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNCVIb59h88 Here is a vid of one of the 77Es landing in Wellington during this increased capacity. Also includes the ne
39 Post contains links NZdsgnr : well if we go by this page, scroll down to almost the bottom of the page, and there is a mention of 36in compared to the current 39in http://bestawar
40 Boeing767-300 : A Mistake it must be ACARS mode: B Aircraft reg: ZK-NCK [Boeing B763] Message label: 80 Block id: 2 Msg no: M74A Flight id: NZ2233 [GIS-WLG] [Air New
41 Kaiarahi : Assuming that's the hard-shell spacing, then 36" becomes 30" when the seat cushion is slid forward to "recline", as opposed to a constant 39" on the
42 Post contains links A330NZ : Virgin Blue to drop 'Blue' as part of re-branding http://atwonline.com/airline-finance...lue-drop-blue-part-rebranding-0301
43 777ER : It happened on a work day so for many of us Wellington residents it becomes hard
44 zkojh : any more word on extra a/c offers for the 787 delays? also with 2 months to go ; CZ - Guangzhou – Auckland eff 08APR11 3 weekly Airbus A330-200 NONS
45 Post contains links haggis73 : The only photo I've found of it (N116UA), was on Mike Condon's blog. http://mrcaviation.blogspot.com/
46 zkojh : TOKYO FLIGHT CANCELLATION Air New Zealand regrets to advise that the service scheduled to operate from Auckland to Tokyo and return on Tuesday 27 Sept
47 NZ107 : Offers? Boeing don't believe they're in any position to offer any compensation to NZ. I presume RWC charters or something along those lines? But in t
48 PA515 : The SFO cancellations are one a week over four consecutive weeks Mon, Wed, Mon, Wed. For Aug, Sep and Nov the SFO flight is Daily except Mon and Wed,
49 777ER : N116UA operated the charter
50 Post contains links 777ER : QFs WLG-MEL operated by a B738 diverted to AKL after an air con malfunction and landed after 6.30pm. The delayed pax have just left for MEL http://www
51 ZKSUJ : Why did a 733 go into PMR today (03/03/11) at approx 1745? Was arrivimng from the south
52 zkojh : ''Offers? Boeing don't believe they're in any position to offer any compensation to NZ.'' So you buy an aircraft from Boeing and become a launch custo
53 cchan : There is also a scheduled 733 flight NZ1499 AKL-HLZ-PMR and NZ1498 PMR-AKL today (4/3), seats are available for sale on their website. I checked the
54 Mr AirNZ : 737's in odd places relate to Mount Cook been forced to cancel a large number of sectors due to crewing issues following the earthquake. With all NM c
55 Post contains images joelyboy911 : I'll be at work from before it arrives until after it departs. It seems I always miss these sort of things at my local airport.
56 777ER : Hows ANZES CHC doing in terms of damage and any cancellations?
57 zkncj : Aircarft changed to a international A320?
58 cchan : ZK-OJQ was the aircraft which operated that flight. Space+ was available despite the online seat request page did not show it has Space+.
59 Post contains links zkojh : China Southern Airlines will spend almost $10 million in the coming weeks promoting New Zealand as a tourism destination for Chinese travellers, an Au
60 zkojh : ''International travel up at Auckland Airport'' Auckland Airport said it handled 4.8 per cent more international passengers in January compared to a y
61 v2fix : I am repeating this - and clearly identifing this as a rumour - because it is at least 3rd hand from the source: Air NZ have placed contracts with MAN
62 NZ1 : Crew shortages on the ATR have forced this. No damage to facilities, and no cancellation of work/contracts. One DJ aircraft was delayed ex maintenanc
63 koruman : I believe that the airport declared this in its financials around six months ago - it was certainly all over the Manchester Airport thread. I think i
64 anstar : Why would you establish ground handling contracts more than a year out????
65 koruman : The other issue, of course, is which flight should be extended to Manchester three times weekly. There are essentially six options: Los Angeles, San F
66 zkojh : look at the options deeper and see which would best fit into a MAN option. ( a few months ago NZ had 4 weekly slots saved at MAN for use over the next
67 koruman : I'd like to go back a step with this. The reason for the relative success of AKL-LAX-LHR over AKL-HKG-LHR has been the ability to sell both sectors f
68 koruman : I am on record as having concerns that an incentive to maintain and grow the Chinese routes ex-AKL could relate to the opaque payments made to FASCO
69 kiwiandrew : or it could just mean that having no crew based in MAN they would have the option of positioning crew in from LON at extra cost , or using crew who a
70 kiwiandrew : Yes , you are on record , frequently .... if you actually have any evidence to back this up I assume that you have raised it with the relevant author
71 xiaotung : It is simply a goverment requirement to hire China based crew by a foreign airline via FASCO, end of story. If he thinks this is unlawful I am afraid
72 koruman : My concern is that FASCO makes 75% of the money evaporate rather than paying it to the crews. Who knows what they do with it, and ultimately the majo
73 DavidByrne : Not wanting to argue the point, but I need to know whether these numbers are "real", or whether they are just a guesstimate by yourself?
74 xiaotung : "Guesstimate" probably is an overstatement, LOL.
75 koruman : Absolutely a guestimate, based upon having spent two decades living in Cheshire and studying then working in Manchester. And during that time I had v
76 NZ6 : Well well well....
77 Post contains links and images mariner : I'm an NZ taxpayer and I;m not at all unhappy about it. Fasco's "jobs vacant" page shows that they employ a great range of airline associated people
78 v2fix : Not wishing to get drawn into a discussion about the relative ethnic mix of passenger on Air NZ, or where they live - I would just add that while MAN
79 Zkpilot : Problem being that QF is dropping its SFO service, NZ's SFO service is already full most of the time (even with 744 operating certain days), and you
80 Post contains links mariner : To bring an "actual numbers" perspective to the debate about China, first this from New Zealand: http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/inter...l-visitor-arri
81 xiaotung : Below is a statement from Canberra this week. The confidence Australia has to grow air travel to and from China is quite phenomenal. It mentions that
82 zkojh : now that a new time frame is out of the hat from Boeing for the 787, are we still going see some extra aircraft ordered (77W or 77L) or are we going t
83 sunrisevalley : I wonder what NZ have been told for their 789's? Is this what they have been waiting for or is the advice to airlines confined to the 788 only.
84 A330NZ : I do not get why NZ has not yet ordered the 77L. It's the most obvious substitute for the 789. If they don't act fast, their future routes are in jeop
85 Megatop747-412 : I am at WLG and noticed an Air NZ B773ER (I think it is ZK-OKM, can't really read the reg as it was quite far away!) parked at one of the internationa
86 NZ107 : It was doing another 'open day' of showing Koru Club and Airpoints members the new onboard product. It should have flown back to AKL for its flight o
87 Megatop747-412 : Ahhh OK. Thanks!
88 DavidByrne : If NZ is indeed to operate to MAN (though how many rumours of an impending start have we heard over the years . . . ?), the possibilities for routing
89 joelyboy911 : If MAN was to be served via LAX, where would the aircraft be based? Would it be logical (or even possible, given the scheduling of the 77E fleet) to e
90 aerokiwi : Looks like Pacific Blue have cut Cairns-Auckland altogether. An interesting development, given what I thought was part of the agreement with the ACCC
91 zkojh : it would only be a matter of time... fares on NZ will rise due to fuel cost going up again. over the last month NZ have spent an extra 10 million on f
92 Post contains links kiwiandrew : I believe that they had to agree not to cut capacity on some specific routes ( IIRC routes into/out of WLG were a particular concern ) , I don't thin
93 texan : Air National's Part 119 AOC has been revoked. Texan
94 texan : Civil Aviation Authority of New Zealand 11 March 2011 MEDIA RELEASE ________________________________________ Air National’s Air Operator Certificate
95 koruman : I have a three year old email reply from a senior executive in reply to a similar query I made (politely, of course). I had made a comment in convers
96 aerohottie : And would have made routes viable now... rather than in another 5 years time...
97 aerokiwi : Odd then that CNS-AKL, a route where NZ and DJ are the only nonstop operators, would not fall under this condition. ANstar on the Australian thread s
98 kiwiandrew : Maybe the ACCC didn't think that a leisure route was as important as some of the business routes , I guess on a leisure route if they jack up the far
99 mariner : And NY oil is over $100 bbl and London Brent Crude is close to $120 bbl, and the last time oil was at these prices it sent several airlines in bankru
100 KiwiRob : Of they just jump in their car and drive to London which will take 3 hours, no longer than your taxi, train, tube, walk theory, long term park at LHR
101 koruman : I beg to differ. Emirates is up to triple daily from Manchester (including an A380 and a 77W), Etihad is double daily and Qatar Airways is double dai
102 aerokiwi : They were US$70-80 and are up where they are due to a geo-political anomaly, not any fundamental problem with supply (Saudi Arabia is covering the vi
103 mariner : Up is up, and the consumer still has to pay. How so? Virgin Blue has a different CEO know and a different strategy and a lot of airlines are doing th
104 NZ5 : ZK-OKO, the third 77W for NZ, is now on the flightline. Correct me if I'm wrong, but with this being the third 77W it'll allow for the daily service o
105 eoinnz : Jetstar start this route next month - perhaps this may have also played a part in it.
106 alangirvan : Seeing that some large orders are starting to come in for the A320NEO, I wonder how this places AirNZ and the Christchurch Engine Company? If the NEO
107 mariner : I think MAN is a very good idea and I'd probably plump for LAX as the intermediate, but I don't know the status of the 5th freedom rights. If - stres
108 A330NZ : Where did NZ99 divert to yesterday? NRT was closed, due to the earthquake.
109 macilree : There are no restrictions on fifth freedom rights under the MALIAT, which covers New Zealand's air services relationship with the USA, or under the N
110 xiaotung : KIX. Should be on its way to NRT today. It's so unfortunate for NZ as they are the only airline that serves both countries that were hit by earthquak
111 Post contains images aerokiwi : Very likely, but an established operator on a route normally has an advantage. Of course when you know you're going to have feed on the route care of
112 Zkpilot : The difference is it's a smaller market and CX is the top dog with IIRC 5x daily HKG-LHR. Also there is a lack of *A feed at both HKG and LHR compare
113 Post contains links kiwiandrew : A little bit of googling produced this link http://www.transport.govt.nz/ourwork...y%20implementation%20agreement.pdf Assuming that the final version
114 NZ2 : Yeah but who is actually paying the paper price, most have hedged and this current level is the same as the last peak, inflated on no actual concrete
115 mariner : A curious red herring. The airlines have to pay higher and higher prices for fuel. In the case of the airline I follow, their fuel costs have risen f
116 koruman : That's the understatement of the century! I think what you should have written is that Air New Zealand inflicts upon its Cantonese-speaking passenger
117 kiwimex : If you make that route OOL-AKL-PPT-GDL-MAN, you have my vote. They're SAYING that, but they can't actually back that up with increased production. He
118 alangirvan : You will have seen in the Australian Thread, and a thread of its own, some comment about the new VirginBlue inflight menu. When the AirNZ/Virgin Joint
119 koruman : It is one of the major areas of incoherence of the low-yield high-volume model which Rob Fyfe has introduced on the Tasman. Virgin Blue used to occup
120 Post contains links mariner : So - in review - Mr Borghetti's Virgin Blue: http://www.centreforaviation.com/new...t-warns-of-tough-second-half/page1 "Virgin Blue reports 62% slump
121 kiwiandrew : How many people actually pay for J class transTasman except as part of a connecting itinerary ? I am sure that very few companies these days still pe
122 DavidByrne : Yes, I find it fascinating that the "dump on NZ" brigade can find reasons to accuse the company of utter mismanagement, pursuing the wrong routes, st
123 koruman : Why is this an accomplishment? The removal of business class increased the seat count by 13%, and sales have gone up 15% in the midst of massive disc
124 mariner : LOL. What you establish as a target and what I think is reasonable are obviously quite different things. I suspect even if Air NZ met your target, yo
125 koruman : I don't damn John Borghetti because of the Virgin Blue result, precisely because it relates to a period in which the airline still used the failed sh
126 kiwiandrew : Of course the yield only counts if they could actually sell the seats , how many of those 8 seats did they actually sell on the average flight ? If t
127 mariner : No, you don't damn John Borghetti, nor did I say you did. I objected to your dump on Mr. Fyfe. I don't expect to convince you. You have it in for "Se
128 koruman : Piecing together what Air NZ executives have said in various fora, the answer seems to be: - overall an average of two seats sold at full Business Cl
129 sunrisevalley : Which is what Fyfe claimed for NZ in an interview about a year ago. The 10 wide on the 777 series is consistent with that but where they appear to be
130 Post contains images Kaiarahi : Worse than dumbing down - the hard product is just bloody uncomfortable if you're more than 5"7''. The soft product has been dumbed down - as best I
131 darenw : Where are those bad reviews? I would like to read them
132 Post contains links Kaiarahi : Airline review sites that can't be linked here. Also here Criticism Of NZ's New And Denser Y Class (by LondonCity Feb 18 2011 in Civil Aviation)
133 darenw : I have read these. I mean published reviews. All the published reviews about the Y+ product I have read have been positive so far. People have only g
134 Kaiarahi : Can you share - I haven't seen any?
135 darenw : The Australian Aviation mag did a big article on the new product. Also the journalists that were on the first flight wrote encouraging reports. When
136 duff : Any truth to the rumour going around that Air NZ are looking at cancelling their 787 orders??
137 kiwiandrew : I hadn't heard that rumour until I read your post just now . May I ask where you heard it from ? ( in general terms , I mean ... I wouldn't want you
138 PA515 : A post today on a Manchester Airport Forum says: Hopefully the MAN 'back rooms' will elaborate, or Air NZ will make an announcement. PA515
139 aerorobnz : I have no idea, It sounds like a good idea to me. I'm sick of waiting for the 787.
140 PA515 : A Press Release from AC last week said Boeing had informed them the first five 788's for delivery in the 2nd Half of 2013 will now be delivered 4th Q
141 aerorobnz : Woah that's bad - 3 more years is a long long time to wait in an industry that changes day by day...definitely time to xxl the order IMO. A mix of 33
142 Kaiarahi : Have Boeing actually said anything about the 789 schedule? Does a 5-7 month delay in 788 deliveries necessarily translate into the same delay for 789
143 anstar : Actually I dont see why there is a language barrier on VS. The majority of crew on the HKG-SYD and HKG-LHR services are from the HKG base so are HK n
144 aerorobnz : considering the first -9 has not even been built I'd say so. Even if no further delay it has got ridiculous. It was already supposed to be in service
145 sunrisevalley : [quote=PA515,reply=140]That means Air NZ's first 789 will not be available until June 2014 at the earliest.[/q I beleive NZ have adjusted their leases
146 LondonCity : Also note that ANZ departs HKG for LHR at an unfashionably early hour.
147 sunrisevalley : Boeing have been insistent that the the series will meet the guarantees... period. Yet Fyfe was saying not so long ago that there would be a shortfal
148 kiwiandrew : I thought that they had announced that they were retaining 2 of them for a few years .
149 aerohottie : I too am getting very frustrated with the constant 787 delays. Air NZ must surely be considering xxl the order... A350's perhaps??? 8x A350-800 8x A35
150 Post contains links zkojh : what a great way to start my 1,000 post. ''Air NZ shares tumble on earthquake profit downgrade'' Air New Zealand shares tumbled 7.5 per cent after it
151 PA515 : It's a revised 787 production schedule so presumably affects both aircraft. The first two or three 789's for Air NZ will be for the flight test progr
152 NZ6 : Y+ product on the 77W has had poor feedback. I've got the facts but are unable to share. Everything else is positive.
153 NZ1 : No they haven't. There's a lot of discussion happening in regard to fleet at present, mainly driven around the 787 delays. Can't elaborate further fo
154 koruman : Don't forget that the 77E and 77L have identical interior dimensions. In the time since the 789 order, the Tasman has moved to Space to Suit and only
155 Post contains links PA515 : The 777-200ER leases have been extended according to the 30 Nov 2010 Investor Day Presentation. Page 20, Fleet Management: www.airnewzealand.co.nz/as
156 Kaiarahi : Hopefully we'll see how nimble the NZ management team is, since this is the first a/c with this product and I presume they won't want to deploy it to
157 koruman : You and I both know what has happened, and will happen. Air NZ's senior management have for years made quite sweeping generalisations about their mar
158 sunrisevalley : cut cut off the plastic to the floor and change the seat mount to light weight metal with floor fastening in the conventional style.
159 Post contains links zkojh : ''Air NZ routes could be cut following earthquakes'' Air New Zealand says it may cut some domestic and international routes in a bid to recoup expecte
160 gasman : Indeed. Another example is that anyone flying trans-Tasman is a beneficiary, off to visit the rellies' at Bondi Junction. Hell yes. Haven't flown it,
161 NZ1 : Yes 12 years, though a couple of aircraft are a year or so longer than that. You need to remember that most leases are for a set period with ETO's bu
162 PA515 : Only makes sense if Air NZ had already decided on an Early Termination Option and then cancelled it. Is this what happened? PA515
163 777ER : As much as anyone would hate to admit it, all these B789 delays is gonna cost NZ its dream/future routes unless NZ order more aircraft ASAP as other
164 gasman : Yes. Tragic really. It's small comfort that the economy went into recession anyway. Still, hope isn't lost just yet. What are they? I thought they'd
165 777ER : Routes on hold till the B787 arrives AFAIK but wouldn't be surprised if CO launch the route with a different aircraft with operating restrictions bef
166 NZ107 : The map hasn't changed since before the removal of J. And that comment sounds like it just means Works Deluxe more than anything. They took out the b
167 Post contains images gasman : Maybe - as far as the A320 goes. But the business class cabin on a 767-300 is most defintely superior to anything that should be called Y+. I've had
168 777ER : Even with the seats to suite fares the old J seats could have stayed and been sold as works deluxe with maybe a fare increase of $50-$80per seat
169 Post contains images gasman : Let's be clear. It's seats to suit. Nothing about these seats could be called a "suite". I think they should've kept the J seats, and just changed th
170 Post contains links darenw : November 2012 http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engine...-it-postpones-auckland-launch-1207
171 777ER : $80 extra on top of the works deluxe fare with a more better meal/drink service
172 Kaiarahi : Have they taken it off AKL-LAX?
173 aerorobnz : It doesn't go every day but it's still LAX bound.
174 Kaiarahi : OK - so I still need to book my next trip to avoid it.
175 aerorobnz : OKO arrives on the 23rd....after that if you're that opposed to it I suggest SFO/YVR ....cos it very much becomes hit or miss for LAX bound flights af
176 sunrisevalley : This assumes that the 787 gets 180-min. EDTO out of the gate. Mind you, if it doesn't it is not going to be much use to most carriers until it does.
177 Kaiarahi : They're hit and miss too between the 772 and 744; I avoid the 772 Y+ as well, so I'll just need to be very selective.
178 zkncj : Back when NZ took over AKL-OOL/BNE from SJ they sold Bussiness as Y+ on these routes it lasted for about two years then they decided that they should
179 zkojh : Air New Zealand plans Hong Kong service increase from mid-Jan 2012 As per 14MAR11 GDS timetable display, Air New Zealand from 16JAN12 plans to increas
180 DavidByrne : I assume this is nothing more than the extra flights that have been provided on an ad hoc basis for Chinese New Year in previous years. Next year it
181 Post contains links 777ER : JQs new SIN-AKL service touched down at AKL this morning http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...-route-takes-off-despite-disasters
182 Post contains links sabian404 : Anybody have any insight as to why ZK-OKO (flying as BOE053) flew into PDX today from Paine Field? It is currently parked inside the AMC hangar where
183 PA515 : Maybe some artwork on the rear fuselage. A few months ago someone from Air NZ said decals on a 744 had damaged the paintwork. Perhaps the paint needs
184 Post contains links zkojh : ''Air NZ says told to halt Tokyo flights'' Air NZ says the flight attendants' union FARSA is demanding the airline urgently cancels all flights from T
185 ZKSUJ : Always thought the pilots and FA's going there are AKL based... Looks like someone isnt being very accurate there
186 xiaotung : Probably it meant the flight attendents and pilots staying in hotels in Tokyo. Is NZ the only foreign airline that does nothing for their crew with r
187 777ER : RWC or All Blacks decals?
188 sabian404 : It's still here at PDX. Only info I have seen so far is that it's here for pre-delivery work but no real details.
189 KiwiRob : I have no idea what you are getting at with this statement?
190 zkncj : Unlikely to be RWC as EK is the airline for the 2011 RWC, no supprizses there!
191 777ER : Wouldn't mind seeing another All Black livery or a New Zealand 2011 livery
192 Kaiarahi : Many other airlines are doing tech stops outside Japan so that their crews do not have to lay over.
193 aerorobnz : The media do talk BS most of the time.... not least all this crap about Nuclear radiation... The crew are being looked after, I know this for fact...
194 aerorobnz : I'm doing my best to find out from someone who will know for sure... I'm hoping for a retro TEAL/Air New Zealand livery...:-P or even the first aircr
195 Unclekoru : Yes, it is a step above any premium economy product. However, after my first trips in the business class cabin of an NZ 767-300 recently, I came away
196 aerorobnz : NRT goes to a 763 very soon... until the market recovers again after the earthquakes in both countries..
197 Post contains links sabian404 : ZK-OKO departed Portland heading back to Boeing at PAE this morning with no work done to the paint. http://www.flickr.com/photos/sabian4...5539855587/
198 Post contains images NZ6 : Referring to crew currently based in TYO - looks like someone jumped the gun. You can do what you like with the AB's under the current All Black spon
199 sabian404 : It was actually inside the hangar. I believe this was the first time Boeing has used one of the hangars at PDX for an already painted aircraft.[Edite
200 aotearoa : In regard to ZK OKO, I have asked around at work and been told that the aircraft had some paint quality issues, that needed resolving prior to deliver
201 aerorobnz : Yeah would have been slightly odd to not get it painted first time around as it rolled off the line if they were going for anything special.
202 Post contains links SA7700 : This thread will be locked for further discussion. Please feel free to contribute in part 93 which is available here: New Zealand Aviation Thread #93
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