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What's Up With The Fokker Company?  
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1985 posts, RR: 2
Posted (3 years 6 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8561 times:

I was reading here and there and I have a few questions about this Dutch manufacturer.
The “old” Fokker Company went bankrupt in 1996, and was acquired by Stork Aerospace, who changed the name to Fokker Aerospace in 2009. But this “new Fokker” only provides service and support to the existing fleet of F-50/70/100, and is not building more aircraft of those types, that seems clear looking at the main page of their website…

http://www.fokker.com/


Anybody knows why ?
There is no room in the market for a Fokker 100 NG or similar ?
Does the manufacturing plant still exists or was dismantled / sold ?



Oh and BTW, there are a company named Rekkof Aircraft ( Fokker backwards ) and they are attempting to restart the production of new models like XF70 and XF100 supported by suppliers and airlines…. Can somebody elaborate ? What airlines are the supporters ?

Thanks in advance !!

Rgds.
G.


80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 42
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8368 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
who changed the name to Fokker Aerospace in 2009.

The name is Fokker Technologies to be precise and owned by Candover(not Stork).
http://www.fokker.com/Fokker-Technologies
Read the site more careful and you'll find it consist of several divisions located in The Netherlands, US and Singapore.

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
But this “new Fokker” only provides service and support to the existing fleet of F-50/70/100

Yes but not limited to..........
Again check the website and you see it is pretty hard to find an aircraft without Fokker input in one form or another.

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
that seems clear looking at the main page of their website…

So maybe you have to click a bit beyond the mainpage  
Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
There is no room in the market for a Fokker 100 NG or similar ?

There's more than enough room.

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
Does the manufacturing plant still exists or was dismantled / sold ?

Although I am still working at the same location there is not much left of the original buildings at AMS.
The other locations in the Netherlands are still pretty much the same though.

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
Oh and BTW, there are a company named Rekkof Aircraft ( Fokker backwards ) and they are attempting to restart the production of new models like XF70 and XF100 supported by suppliers and airlines…. Can somebody elaborate ?
http://www.ngaircraft.nl/

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
What airlines are the supporters ?

You'll know soon enough.  



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1858 posts, RR: 42
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8219 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
Oh and BTW, there are a company named Rekkof Aircraft ( Fokker backwards ) and they are attempting to restart the production of new models like XF70 and XF100 supported by suppliers and airlines…. Can somebody elaborate ? What airlines are the supporters ?

Rekkof releases a press statement at least once a year from as far back as I can remember, that they will start with the XF100. Months ago they stated that they'd finally hauled in a lot of money for the startup. I would love to see a Dutch build plane again but I doubt they'd stand much chance looking at the heaps of competition in the RJ market. I know KL will not support them as they are phasing out their F-100's for the E90s..

Martijn



Nothing's worse then flying the same registration twice, except flying it 4 times..
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4681 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8114 times:

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 1):
There's more than enough room.

Stop dreaming, the ship has sailed.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1985 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8008 times:

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 1):
you see it is pretty hard to find an aircraft without Fokker input in one form or another.

In the first place, many thanks for the additional info/corrections.
About the Fokker contribution to other projects, I was aware since we have here many Fokker F-16 fighter jets ( sold by NAF to Chile AF ) , and the A380 in their website also implies that they do some work in it.
My hope was the buildings for manufacturing new airframes could work again some day in a new project, but your answer is pretty clear about that  
Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 2):
I doubt they'd stand much chance looking at the heaps of competition in the RJ market. I know KL will not support them as they are phasing out their F-100's for the E90s..

Sadly I have to agree with you, Embraer's aggressive marketing policy won that battle IMHO.... but I'm 100 % sure that the Dutch can do a product of the same quality at the very least, and I was hoping better news...
Thanks for your inputs.

Rgds.
G



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineexFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7938 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
Oh and BTW, there are a company named Rekkof Aircraft ( Fokker backwards ) and they are attempting to restart the production of new models like XF70 and XF100 supported by suppliers and airlines…. Can somebody elaborate ? What airlines are the supporters ?

Do a search on the word "Rekkof" and you'll see many threads going back to at least 2005 on this.

Here's the most recent one, from two months ago.

Although there are some A.Net members who think they stand a chance, he general A.net consensus is that Rekkof (or "NG Aircraft", as they're now called) is not going to get this project in the air (pun intended) as there are too many better-capitalized, experienced manufacturers in this segment already, Rekkof is insufficiently capitalized to develop the project and build the manufacturing and support structure needed, and that anyone who wanted to invest in a plane in this category would support a "clean sheet" approach from an established manufacturer.

That said, Rekkof did get a loan of EUR 20 million from the Netherlands government toward the project.

Since the last thread on Rekkof I've found that their parent company, Panta Holdings (which used to own two airlines, Denim Air and VLM), has a substantial investment in a Canadian company called Avcorp Industries (not to be confused with Avcorp Int'l. of North Carolina), which is or has been a subcontractor for Bombardier, Cessna, Boeing, and BAE Systems, so there is apparently some manufacturing expertise at least tangentally attached to the endeavour.

At this time, no airline has officially indicated interest in the project as it currently stands, although it's generally assumed that KLM has some interest, having a fleet of Fokkers to replace in the KLM Cityhopper subsidiary, although Cityhopper has already bought some E190s.

Given the capitalization issue and the competition, I still don't believe Rekkof/NG Aircraft will succeed in producing the update F70/F100 aircraft.


User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 42
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7777 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 4):
In the first place, many thanks for the additional info/corrections.

You're welcome.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 4):
My hope was the buildings for manufacturing new airframes could work again some day in a new project, but your answer is pretty clear about that

The old buildings are not needed.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 4):
and I was hoping better news...

This is not bad news.


Things are looking good.
It took a long time but finally all EU faces(the biggest problem) are looking in the same direction and the finances are nearly completed.
The engineering changes for the demonstrator(PH-MKH) have been completed.
Coming weeks are exciting and a final Yes or no is expected within a couple of months.


Cheers,



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineKent350787 From Australia, joined May 2008, 964 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7667 times:

Thanks for the updates on Fokker, and clarification of NG. I assume there has now been suffcient time for the Fokker name rather than Stork to be used?

I enjoyed this from the Fokker history page "2010 Fokker Technologies rebranded to Fokker Technologies"  

An F27 was the first commercial aircraft on which I flew, and definitely preferred flying the F50 over SAABs and DHC8-100/200. Maybe with so many F100s here in Australia I'll fly one in the future, although there are few flying scheduled services on the East coast....

[Edited 2011-02-20 17:38:31]

User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1985 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7561 times:

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 6):
Things are looking good.
It took a long time but finally all EU faces(the biggest problem) are looking in the same direction and the finances are nearly completed.
The engineering changes for the demonstrator(PH-MKH) have been completed.
Coming weeks are exciting and a final Yes or no is expected within a couple of months.


Great !! Many thanks for all your clarifications, and specially for the good news !!!

I guess we'll be hearing some news here in A.net the day after the final decision   

Rgds.

G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineDALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1680 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 6145 times:

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 6):
Things are looking good.
It took a long time but finally all EU faces(the biggest problem) are looking in the same direction and the finances are nearly completed.
The engineering changes for the demonstrator(PH-MKH) have been completed.
Coming weeks are exciting and a final Yes or no is expected within a couple of months.

How I love to believe all this, I still doubt any production line can/will be started sometime soon.
I used to be rather positive, but after all the delays, renamings, discussions here on a.net, I start to believe this is more dream than reality.
But I would love to be wrong on this one 



flown on : F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,319,320,321,333,AB6.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12417 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 5939 times:

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 6):
The engineering changes for the demonstrator(PH-MKH) have been completed.

Last seen in the a.net database in 2006 testing SOSTAR ground search radar:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mark Van Der Vliet



I'm wondering if there are any newer shots available.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 42
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 5785 times:

Quoting DALCE (Reply 9):
How I love to believe all this

It has nothing to do with believe, it's just the current status.
Concerning MKH I meant obviously that the Design engineering phase has been completed(including aero design at NLR).

If you have twitter check DickBerlijn.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 10):
Last seen in the a.net database in 2006 testing SOSTAR ground search radar

MKH has flown beyond 2006 because it is still in use as certification aircraft if required.



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlinePH-BFA From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 562 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 21 hours ago) and read 5504 times:

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 11):
If you have twitter check DickBerlijn.

'Vorige week voor Rekkof naar Turkije. Nieuw vliegtuig (100+ seater) dat aanmerkelijk zuiniger is dan competitie. Turkije heeft ambitie.'

(Visited Turkey last week on behalf of Rekkof. New airplane (100+ seater) which is considerably more fuel efficient than its near competitors. Turkey has ambition.)

Very interesting indeed.... Was this trip related to the development/production or to potential operators?


User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 18 hours ago) and read 3967 times:

Quoting PH-BFA (Reply 12):
Was this trip related to the development/production or to potential operators?

Investment related for as far as I can see and related to earlier visit(s) like this one 3 weeks ago.
http://www.eskisehir.net/haber.asp?id=2809
http://www.eskisehirgundem.com/?sec=1&newscatid=7&newsid=45865

Google translate does the rest.



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 3485 times:

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 1):
There's more than enough room.

Yep, but there won't be any room left when the first Fokker NG's come of the line, even in the most optimistic scenario.
It will all be filled up by Embraers, Sukhoi's, Mitsubishi's, COMAC's, Bombardiers and the lot.

Quoting A342 (Reply 3):
Stop dreaming, the ship has sailed.

I'm afraid you're quite right.



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12417 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 3391 times:

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 14):
Quoting A342 (Reply 3):
Stop dreaming, the ship has sailed.

I'm afraid you're quite right.

Yes, but some times dreams come true.

This is a.net, and many of us love the little Fokkers!  

I know I do, and I hope you do to.

I first road on one back when it was in service with US Air, and although the airline was crap, the plane was great!

So I hope they do find some investors interested in making them again.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1985 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 16 hours ago) and read 3292 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 15):
I know I do, and I hope you do to.

I first road on one back when it was in service with US Air, and although the airline was crap, the plane was great!

You can bet I do !!!

The time when I flew on Fokkers I was a child, but I still can remember how I love every flight on those beautiful aircraft.
That's the reason why I hope some day a NG version will come true.... dreaming is ( still ) for free !!!


Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
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