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Indonesian Aviation 2011  
User currently offlineGARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1503 posts, RR: 1
Posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4166 times:

Its been a while since we have had an Indonesian Aviation topic. Use this for any and all Indonesian
related aviation discussions.

There are more than a few things to discuss:
Three recent Lionair B739 incidents, two overruns at Pekanbaru, ground collision at CGK,
Mandala Airlines ceasing operations for 90days/perhaps permanently,
Airlines in Indonesia having to have 10 or more planes by the end of the year to remain in business,
The effect Indonesia Air Asia will have on the market,
Garuda joining Skyteam and the benefits and/or detriments,
Garuda B777s being delayed another year.
What will happen first, will GA return to the U.S, or will a U.S. carrier serve CGK?

Feel free to add any subsequent topics as necessary.

Enjoy!


Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineafterburner From Indonesia, joined Jun 2005, 1201 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4161 times:

Unsuccessful Garuda's IPO.

User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4157 times:

Quoting GARUDAROD (Thread starter):
What will happen first, will GA return to the U.S, or will a U.S. carrier serve CGK?

The latter.


User currently offlineLutfi From China, joined Sep 2000, 759 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4140 times:

I thought the GA IPO was successful? At the bottom end of price range, but the price range was optimistic (higher valuation than SQ or CX)

Lots of volcanic activity Eastern Indonesia...

CX going daily HKG-SUB, triple daily HKG-JKT

NH returning to Indonesia


User currently offline9MMAR From Malaysia, joined Jul 2006, 2106 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4045 times:

Quoting GARUDAROD (Thread starter):
The effect Indonesia Air Asia will have on the market

As of yesterday, QZ is selecting banks that will handle its IPO.

FY, a subsidiary of MH is submitting its 3rd application to set up an Indonesian operation after 2 rejections in 2010.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4000 times:

Network developments at GA:

As part of its program of starting service to all of the country's provinces, GA has recently started service to Gorontalo. The flight operates daily from Makasar, and at UPG connections are available to CGK, DPS and SUB. Later this year, the airline will also start service to Bengkulu, at which time it will serve all provinces in the country. Over the past couple of years, GA has massively expanded its domestic operations with new services to Jambi, Tanjung Karang (Lampung), Pangkal Pinang, Palangkaraya, Malang, Kendari, Palu, Gorontalo, Ambon, Ternate and Kupang.

On the international front, new services to Taipei, Manila and India are being talked about, but the airline does not seem to be able to make up its mind regarding these issues. Taipei service has been loaded and removed from the reservation systems a couple of times now, and while India service looked all but certain, it seems as if the airline hasn't really made up its mind as to whether it will fly to India and, if yes, what destinations will be selected. Delhi, Mumbai and Chennai have all been talked about.

Garuda is planning to increase CGK HKG service to twice daily later this year and frequency reinforcements to a number of international gateways including SYD and ICN have been planned. Meanwhile, NRT is now service twice daily, with a daily flight from both the CGK and DPS hubs. ICN should eventually see a similar service pattern.

There will be no new European service added in 2011 as the Amsterdam route is still very much underperforming with average load factors in the 60s only. It remains to be seen whether the planned nonstop AMS operation with B77W will actually materialize. As things go right now, there is definitely no need to deploy such a large aircraft on such an underperforming route.


User currently offlineBNAOWB From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 386 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3923 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 5):
There will be no new European service added in 2011 as the Amsterdam route is still very much underperforming with average load factors in the 60s only. It remains to be seen whether the planned nonstop AMS operation with B77W will actually materialize. As things go right now, there is definitely no need to deploy such a large aircraft on such an underperforming route.

Is KL's AMS-KUL-CGK route also underperforming? If not, is there any chance KL would start nonstop AMS-CGK?


User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6590 posts, RR: 75
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3896 times:

I just had a look at the prices for Garuda to AMS for early next month, well, damn expensive. It is $3000 or so... I guess, it's because on the way back, it says Business class only... But then, that's because it's packed with people on the DXB-CGK sectors. The AMS-DXB sectors are... probably much less than 60%LF average. Going Business return costs $4000... But Emirates business is only... $3000... *shakes head*

On another note:
Garuda's plans to introduce inflight internet and SMS announced by the CEO a while back is set to hit the wall due to legality issue on the leading inflight connectivity providers (Row44, Aeromobile and OnAir, etc) cannot comply with the Indonesian telecommunications regulations. Providers using Ku-Band satcoms don't have frequency landing rights and/or data communications rights in Indonesia. OnAir and Aeromobile hit the same wall, as they use the Inmarsat-4's SwiftBroadband, and they do not have the frequency landing rights nor the data communication rights for Indonesia. Aeromobile did attempt to resolve the issue with a local Inmarsat-4 provider which does have those rights but seemed reluctant to cooperate or agree on a "foreign operator roaming rate/agreement". The local Inmarsat operator's attempts to discuss it with Garuda is also reported to have been hampered by "typical Indonesian problems" as some within Garuda seems to think that Garuda should proceed with Aeromobile/OnAir despite doing so would mean that someone within Garuda will end up in court and face a nice jail sentence and the equipment seized for destruction by the Department of Communication.

Indonesia Air Asia and one other carrier here might go and hit the same wall...
Will those planning to use it realize before someone says "Ooops"???



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3877 times:

Quoting BNAOWB (Reply 6):
Is KL's AMS-KUL-CGK route also underperforming? If not, is there any chance KL would start nonstop AMS-CGK?

KLM's service is doing great, and so should Garuda's if only the airline would provide interline options with KLM at AMS to continue to a host of destination around Europe.

At some point in the not too distant future some airline will definitely start nonstop service to Europe. That could be GA, KL, LH or TK, but someone will do it for sure. At this point, GA has publicly stated it will start nonstop AMS service next year, but I doubt this will actually materialize given the poor performance of the current service. TK is also on record stating it will use CGK as a stopover point for new Australia service in the course of 2011, which would make the IST service nonstop.

Somehow, however, I believe that LH and KL have the better cards when it comes to nonstop service and with an increasing number of nonstop flight to destinations that were once strictly the domain on tag on services, it is only natural that at some point nonstop Indonesia service will be contemplated.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 3993 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3740 times:

Quoting GARUDAROD (Thread starter):
What will happen first, will GA return to the U.S, or will a U.S. carrier serve CGK?
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 2):
The latter.

DL could try LAX-CGK with a 772LR but give it a few years. Sooner or later Indonesia will need direct North American flights. and GA joining SkyTeam might make this work.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3724 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 9):
DL could try LAX-CGK with a 772LR but give it a few years. Sooner or later Indonesia will need direct North American flights. and GA joining SkyTeam might make this work.

I expect Delta to start NRT CGK with B752 or B763ER first. Alternatively, GA may reschedule its CGK NRT flight to connect with the DL hub at NRT. That would require an early morning departure from CGK and a late afternoon turnaround at NRT. Such a move would however jeopardize the viability of the flight for the CGK NRT O/D traffic.


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3314 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3522 times:

I have a question regarding the business class product on Garuda's B744.
Have these been upgraded to flat bed business as per A332.
how does the product rate to other carriers in the region.?


User currently offlineGARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1503 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3271 times:

Recent incidents for Merpati,
B737-200 inflight engine shut down
http://avherald.com/h?article=437ba403&opt=0

MA60 runway overrun
http://avherald.com/h?article=4381576f&opt=0

Just out of curiosity's sake, how many of B739s of LionAir have had a tail strike?



Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
User currently offlineGARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1503 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2982 times:

Does anybody think it would be possible to set up a hub operation like at Changi at CGK?
You would be drawing from a much larger population area in an area that is cheaper to operate
and is more centrally located between Asia and Australia and only slightly farther
from the Middle East and Europe.

What if a high dollar airline, such as Emirates or Qatar, decided to bank roll the whole thing? Is it feasible?



Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6590 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2948 times:

Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 13):
Does anybody think it would be possible to set up a hub operation like at Changi at CGK?

Possible on the following conditions:
1. Massive ATC infrastructure upgrade.
2. Realignment of Jakarta's terminal airspace for better flow management.
3. Mow down the terminals and make new ones that can cater for large numbers of transfers!
4. More aircraft parking stands ! (heck we've run out!)

  

And oh, privatise the damn airport while you're at it !

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2751 times:

In the coming months, Garuda will increase frequencies to a host of domestic destinations. It will also open a new domestic route between Balikpapan and Surabaya:

GA350 SUB BPN 1045 1310 B738 eff 16APR
GA351 BPN SUB 0935 1000 B738 eff 16APR

Furthermore, Garuda will start a second daily roundtrip on the CGK HKG route:

GA876 CGK HKG 1700 2300 B738 eff 16JUN
GA873 HKG CGK 0900 1300 B738 eff 16JUN

The existing flight GA860/863 remains with A332 daily and with the current schedule.


User currently offlineN757KW From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 435 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2577 times:

I see that Air Asia (AK) has restarted KUL-PLM 3 times a week a little more than a year after discontinuing the flight. Nice to have the KUL option back to connect to PLM.

Now, if Air Asia Indonesia would restart CGK-PLM maybe I could avoid Lion Air more often.

N757KW



"What we've got here, is failure to communicate." from Cool Hand Luke
User currently offlineLutfi From China, joined Sep 2000, 759 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2542 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 15):
Furthermore, Garuda will start a second daily roundtrip on the CGK HKG route:

GA876 CGK HKG 1700 2300 B738 eff 16JUN
GA873 HKG CGK 0900 1300 B738 eff 16JUN

The existing flight GA860/863 remains with A332 daily and with the current schedule.

10 hours crew turnaround? Or will they have to stay 2 nights in HK?


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 2516 times:

Quoting Lutfi (Reply 17):
10 hours crew turnaround? Or will they have to stay 2 nights in HK?

The inbound CGK crew will go out to SUB/DPS and vice verse so both crews will have 16 hours in HKG.


User currently offlineLutfi From China, joined Sep 2000, 759 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2465 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 18):
The inbound CGK crew will go out to SUB/DPS and vice verse so both crews will have 16 hours in HKG

Clever scheduling!


User currently offlinesr176 From Switzerland, joined Feb 2001, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days ago) and read 2247 times:

I am about to book a flight from DPS to Labuan Bajo. My agent informed me that the flights will be on Merpati (15.4 - 17.4). I could so far not find out what aircraft type would be used. Is Merpati a good choice on this route ? Maybe the only one?

User currently offlineTK773ER From Australia, joined Jun 2010, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2085 times:

Any of our friends here know how TK is doing with the loads into CGK?

User currently offlineoutbackair From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 month 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2034 times:
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Quoting sr176 (Reply 20):

A search on Google Images shows Merpati MA-60 at Labaun Bajo. Also shows Indonesian Air Transport Fokker 50 and Trigana ATR at the same airport. Just be aware with Merpati that having a ticket doesn't mean the flight exists! I booked flights a few years ago with them when they had an office in Darwin, Australia, but when I got to Indonesia the staff looked confused and told me the flights had not operated for 3 months. Took me a long time to get a refund when I returned to Australia. However, since Labaun Bajo is popular with tourists (Komodo Island), you should be ok.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 month 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1989 times:

Quoting TK773ER (Reply 21):
Any of our friends here know how TK is doing with the loads into CGK?

TK is carrying between 50 and 100 pax daily to CGK. Strangely enough, the airline has not been seeking fifth freedom rights on the SIN CGK SIN sectors to further fill up the flight. According to local TK staff, CGK will become a stopover point for a future IST SYD service which is likely to operate with A343 equipment.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1786 times:

Garuda will add a number of B738s to its fleet over the next couple of months, and as a result, the airline will reinforce frequencies to a number of destinations:

CGK MES - addition of a 10th daily flight
CGK PKU - addition of a 5th daily flight
CGK PLM - addition of a 9th daily flight
CGK BPN - addition of an 8th daily flight
CGK MDC - addition of a 3rd daily flight
CGK SOC - addition of a 4th daily flight

CGK HKG - addition of a 2nd daily flight

BPN SUB - new route

The airline has also recently opened a new service to Gorontalo, which seems to be very successful. UPG GTO operates daily. Furthermore, the addition of services to Bengkulu (BKS), Tarakan (TRK) and Sorong (SOQ) is planned for this year. GA also still wants to initiate flights to TPE and MNL.

Meanwhile, services on the DPS NRT route will be suspended until the end of May because of the fall of traffic numbers on that route. GA will operate a daily DPS CGK NRT service.


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