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DL To Switch LAX-FLL To LAX-MIA  
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1542 posts, RR: 12
Posted (3 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 14767 times:

If you read enilria's OAG threads you saw that DL cut LAX-FLL but they had not yet loaded LAX-MIA. The LAX-MIA flight is now on DL's desktop timetable. It's the same flight number and flight time as LAX-FLL so it really is a straight switch. It starts June 9th.

LAX 2240 MIA 0646 Daily 73H
MIA 0745 LAX 0959 Daily 73H

[Edited 2011-02-23 16:49:52]


717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
136 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 14889 times:

Better to connect with the new LHR service and compete with AA.

Just guessing, but....good guess.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1542 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 14860 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 1):
Better to connect with the new LHR service

That would make sense if the eastbound flight was not a redeye.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11640 posts, RR: 61
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 23 hours ago) and read 14767 times:

Yikes.

Not exactly a stellar schedule if you want to compete with AA's countless daily flights all throughout the day.

I understand that they are also going for aircraft utilization here, but I would think that at least a second daily flight would be needed to really be even marginally competitive for business traffic.

Something alone the lines of:

LAX 0840 MIA 1645 **
LAX 2240 MIA 0646 Daily 73H

MIA 0745 LAX 0959 Daily 73H
MIA 1745 LAX 2000 **


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4471 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 23 hours ago) and read 14632 times:

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
LAX 2240 MIA 0646 Daily 73H
MIA 0745 LAX 0959 Daily 73H

Eeeek!

Not too good. 


User currently offlinescorpy From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 400 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 23 hours ago) and read 14546 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 3):
Not exactly a stellar schedule if you want to compete with AA's countless daily flights all throughout the day.

I understand that they are also going for aircraft utilization here, but I would think that at least a second daily flight would be needed to really be even marginally competitive for business traffic.

you just wait. all those DL loyalists in LA, they're going to drive AA off that route  
 


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1049 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 23 hours ago) and read 14504 times:

This can also be used to feed the new KL flight from MIA.

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11640 posts, RR: 61
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 23 hours ago) and read 14476 times:



Quoting scorpy (Reply 5):
you just wait. all those DL loyalists in LA, they're going to drive AA off that route

Ha. Yeah. I know DL is looking for a place to park some aircraft utilization, but honestly, on a route like this, I don't know why they even bothered. Without at least 1 other daily flight, I just don't see this doing all that well.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 6):
This can also be used to feed the new KL flight from MIA.

Is the new KL flight from MIA leaving MIA at 0900 or arriving into MIA at 0530? I don't think so.

[Edited 2011-02-23 17:30:56]

User currently offlinenotdownnlocked From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 935 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 23 hours ago) and read 14401 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 3):

How many flights per day is countless? From what I see at the AA.com site the scheds are 6-8 daily. From the hick school where I graduated (Keller, TX 1982) 6-8 was not really a countless number. I would hope it's not the same for you too.


User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1947 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 23 hours ago) and read 14396 times:

Didn't take long for the switch to come out. Well, good luck, DL.

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11640 posts, RR: 61
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 23 hours ago) and read 14399 times:

Quoting notdownnlocked (Reply 8):
How many flights per day is countless? From what I see at the AA.com site the scheds are 6-8 daily. From the hick school where I graduated (Keller, TX 1982) 6-8 was not really a countless number. I would hope it's not the same for you too.

Putting the sarcasm aside, 6-8 is a dramatically different schedule than 1 - particularly 1 so poorly timed.

AA has flights spaced all throughout the day in both directions, which provides an extremely attractive product for passengers - particularly high-yielding business travelers.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 22 hours ago) and read 14318 times:

Time for someone to play devils advocate.

Take DL's stance for a minute, what do they have to lose by switching over a flight from FLL to MIA in the same metro area, to an airport that for now is more strategically important to them.

MIA-LAX operates between two of the largest O&D markets in the country, and as it is now AA doesn't have 100% of the market. It is a large market and there is room for another flight, and people today are flight DL between the two cities and connecting over ATL and MEM everyday.

That said, there is a DL following in S. Florida, and if die-hard elites want to utilize these flights they will. Depending on people's travel patterns, AA may not be the best option for all travel, particularly if one has to fly to a small/mid-sized city, in the North/Midwest, they're looking at a connection.

Its not like this flight is something brand new. The same logic that DL will completely fail on MIA-LAX is along the same logic that said AA was going to fail on LGA-ATL.


User currently offlineRafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 22 hours ago) and read 14316 times:

Nevertheless, it is good to finally see competition (barely) on this route. LAX-MIA seems to be a reasonably big market, and I bet AA is as close as possible to printing money on a domestic route with this route. I suppose the market exists for more than just one operator.

I have to admit, AA has done a great job in keeping MIA as much to themselves as possible.

It is also weird not to see any other carrier flying SFO-MIA.


User currently offlinescorpy From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 400 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 22 hours ago) and read 14259 times:

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 12):
Nevertheless, it is good to finally see competition (barely) on this route. LAX-MIA seems to be a reasonably big market, and I bet AA is as close as possible to printing money on a domestic route with this route. I suppose the market exists for more than just one operator.

Still, having one daily in this market vs 8 feels like the charge of the light brigade....


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1049 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 22 hours ago) and read 14216 times:

Will KL and DL LHR-MIA be solely O&D or will they rely on these new connections to fill their flights?

User currently offlinenotdownnlocked From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 935 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 22 hours ago) and read 14173 times:

Unfortunately for AA and their employees I see the return of DL after many years and perhaps others on LAX-MIA as a shot across the bow of AA and the AA proclaimed cornerstone plan. LAX-MIA is only one example of a route that can be exploited by others as AA is in regroup/refocus mode, hub to hub flight or not (LAX-MIA). AA laid their cards on the table with their announcements of the cornerstone plan and don't think for a second that others have not noticed. As one poster said in a different thread, AA is becoming a one trick pony. How true is that? One can look to other airline infringements on core AA routes as a cancer to the AA grand plan. Namely Virgin in DFW and soon ORD to Cali.. On the other hand it could be merely DL attempting retribution for the AA buildup in ATL.

User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9435 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 22 hours ago) and read 14128 times:

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):

lol still don't get why it wasn't loaded the same day.

Quoting FL787 (Reply 2):

told yall it was a red eye  
I am praying that they add a 2nd flight and run the two just like they do MCO. (oh and run TPA in the morning too)

Quoting commavia (Reply 3):

LAX 0840 MIA 1645 **
LAX 2240 MIA 0646 Daily 73H

MIA 0745 LAX 0959 Daily 73H
MIA 1745 LAX 2000 **

that I agree with. It should be just like MCO and MSY. A morning LAX flight and a late afternoon MIA flight.

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):

Ha. Yeah. I know DL is looking for a place to park some aircraft utilization, but honestly, on a route like this, I don't know why they even bothered. Without at least 1 other daily flight, I just don't see this doing all that well.

So your saying the MCO #2, TPA, MSY#2 all are money pits? Love to see that data.  
and if it was utilization what is the point of MIA when they could run a red eye to ATL and make money? (since as you said it wont do all that well)
PS I love how you AA fans boy talk crap about Delta fan boys saying stuff about Delta running AA away then turn around and do the same sh....stuff. No way can Delta compete in MIA against AA. (I mean Delta is the 2nd largest carrier, its one of the biggest Skymiles markets and a very strong and loyal market for DL, but AA will run them away. Hell I bet AA is kicking Delta's butt on MIA-ATL    )



yep.
User currently offlinescorpy From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 400 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 13879 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 16):
No way can Delta compete in MIA against AA. (I mean Delta is the 2nd largest carrier, its one of the biggest Skymiles markets and a very strong and loyal market for DL, but AA will run them away.

It's about choosing to compete. a limp wristed one daily offering is not.


User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3483 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 13874 times:

Quoting scorpy (Reply 17):

It's about choosing to compete. a limp wristed one daily offering is not.

DL's JFK-MIA service started as a once daily CRJ-900 against AA's 6+ daily JFK-MIA flights, some on widebodies; today, DL has 5 mainline flights between JFK and MIA and is the O&D leader on the route. Just food for thought.

Jeremy


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6180 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 13854 times:

Quoting notdownnlocked (Reply 15):
Unfortunately for AA and their employees I see the return of DL after many years

Yeah, I think DL is going to try to cherry pick some LatAm routes out of MIA, but to do that they need to establish some domestic feed there, which they are doing now. I wouuld not be surprised to see DL enter some markets like MIA-BOG/POS/LIM in the next year or two.

Quoting notdownnlocked (Reply 15):
As one poster said in a different thread, AA is becoming a one trick pony. How true is that?

That poster was right
  



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinePacificClipper From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 13838 times:

Good for DL on LAX-MIA. Too bad UA was asleep at the switch and missed out. Forcing most West Coast originating Florida-bound traffic through IAH is painful. There is some service via DEN but that's not extensive, or year round in some cases.


Fly Beautiful :: 747
User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 755 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 13836 times:

Here's how I see it: it's better for DL to run this flight to MIA against one competitor with high costs (albeit with a supremely superior schedule) than it is for them to continue at FLL against three competitors with very low costs.

Also, it doesn't hurt that they have been building up MIA recently with the addition of LHR and the intra-Florida flights.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a second flight added soon.



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3471 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 13720 times:

With 3 LCCs on LAX-FLL now it was unrealistic to keep it they had to do something and this is the easiest fix to jetblue adding LAX-FLL. It might be smart for AA to do nothing and just let them operate this one flight especially if its a redeye.

User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9435 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 20 hours ago) and read 13560 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 18):

DL's JFK-MIA service started as a once daily CRJ-900 against AA's 6 daily JFK-MIA flights, some on widebodies; today, DL has 5 mainline flights between JFK and MIA and is the O&D leader on the route. Just food for thought.

agreed. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Quoting scorpy (Reply 17):

It's about choosing to compete. a limp wristed one daily offering is not.

No its about being smart. You don't enter a long Tcon market by dumping 4-5-6-7 flights into it. Now I believe Delta should do a morning flight for SYD and I think they will.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 19):
I wouuld not be surprised to see DL enter some markets like MIA-BOG/POS/LIM in the next year or two.

I agree

AFAIK the only big markets that DL will have a hard time getting flights to are Brazil and CCS. AFAIK the rest of the markets have Open skies or room in the bilateral for two MIA carriers. (Co

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 22):
It might be smart for AA to do nothing and just let them operate this one flight especially if its a redeye.

wow we agree on something.

Quoting PacificClipper (Reply 20):
Good for DL on LAX-MIA. Too bad UA was asleep at the switch and missed out. Forcing most West Coast originating Florida-bound traffic through IAH is painful. There is some service via DEN but that's not extensive, or year round in some cases.

UA doesn't have a south FL flight from LA? I thought they have 1x MIA.



yep.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7192 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 20 hours ago) and read 13495 times:

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
If you read enilria's OAG threads you saw that DL cut LAX-FLL but they had not yet loaded LAX-MIA.

Thanks for the props...

Quoting FL787 (Reply 2):
Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 1):
Better to connect with the new LHR service
That would make sense if the eastbound flight was not a redeye.

LOL. Yeah, that's what they are doing. NO, but seriously they are building a little focus city in AA's backyard.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 11):
MIA-LAX operates between two of the largest O&D markets in the country, and as it is now AA doesn't have 100% of the market. It is a large market and there is room for another flight, and people today are flight DL between the two cities and connecting over ATL and MEM everyday.

But of course the intention is to to do more in MIA. AA better head them off fast.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 11):
The same logic that DL will completely fail on MIA-LAX is along the same logic that said AA was going to fail on LGA-ATL.

Who says AA is making money on LGA-ATL?

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 19):
Yeah, I think DL is going to try to cherry pick some LatAm routes out of MIA, but to do that they need to establish some domestic feed there, which they are doing now. I wouuld not be surprised to see DL enter some markets like MIA-BOG/POS/LIM in the next year or two.
Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 23):
agreed. Rome wasn't built in a day.
Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 23):
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 19):
I wouuld not be surprised to see DL enter some markets like MIA-BOG/POS/LIM in the next year or two.
I agree
AFAIK the only big markets that DL will have a hard time getting flights to are Brazil and CCS. AFAIK the rest of the markets have Open skies or room in the bilateral for two MIA carriers. (Co

You are all correct. Latin is next. I've been hearing SJU and I'm hearing they may use RJs for some of the Latin flying. Do they have overwater RJs?

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 23):
Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 22):
It might be smart for AA to do nothing and just let them operate this one flight especially if its a redeye.

wow we agree on something.

We don't agree. If AA keeps sitting back and doing nothing they will have a DL hub in their lap.


25 deltal1011man : That i agree on, I'm talking about just LAX-MIA at this point. Offer more miles etc but they don't need to add 829147083724207429047204 seats. ehhhh
26 SCL767 : It will be extremely difficult for DL to obtain slots at Bogotá. DL does well on certain routes such as ATL-LIM and ATL-BOG because pax can transit
27 MSPNWA : There is one route that this flight matches well on - MIA-LAX-NRT. But it's just the one direction. Aside from that you can kind of call it the "route
28 deltal1011man : MIA-BOG/LIM and JFK-BOG would be geared to O/D while ATL-BOG/LIM would be for more transit PAXs why?
29 SCL767 : DL would face stiff competition from Avianca-Taca and Copa Airlines Colombia on a potential MIA-BOG route, (P5 holds the route authority for BOG-MIA).
30 deltal1011man : hmm didn't even know that. DL didn't/hasn't seemed to have a problem getting slots for JFK-BOG. I didn't say it would be easy but I think they may en
31 SCL767 : That was then, now BOG is even worse. B6 can't even get slots to start a FLL-BOG service. Also, frequencies are alloted in accordance with the bilate
32 deltal1011man : US/Col. is going open skies. There was a thread on it not to long ago.
33 SCL767 : Certain destinations are already Open Skies, i.e. BAQ, CTG, AXM, etc. However, BOG is not going to be Open Skies for at least a few years.
34 Post contains links deltal1011man : end of next year(2012) will be a full open skies and i would expect Delta to add some feed markets to BOS before they jump into BOG. http://www.dot.g
35 UAL747DEN : I don't understand why everyone thinks that DL really has to "compete" with AA on this route. DL did not start this LAX-MIA route to run AA out of the
36 SCL767 : BOG will still be slot-controlled. Similarly, in 2015, the U.S. and Brazil will have full Open Skies, but GRU will still be slot-controlled.
37 deltal1011man : yes but if Delta could buy slots it can start whatever BOG route it wants. Just like LHR. I believe Delta could find slots if it wants them. It wont
38 flymia : I knew this was bound to happen. Called it a while ago with the Intra florida flights. DL seems to be focusing more on MIA and it makes perfect sense.
39 slcdeltarumd11 : A red-eye is going to attract almost no premium market especially being flown by delta on this route. Its not gonna get many business people or first
40 PacificClipper : That was back in the days of the Miami focus city to support the Latin American route system (ex PA). When MIA-South America was gone, so too was LAX
41 commavia : No, not sure where on earth you got me "saying" that from. MCO, TPA and MSY do not = MIA. All are lower-yielding, and have more competition already.
42 crosswinds21 : If AA is in the mood to fight this one, is there any chance that they may start LAX-ATL in reponse to this? In many ways, LAX-ATL is to DL what LAX-MI
43 AA1818 : With any luck, all of this DL prodding (MIA-LAX and LHR, BOS-LHR, joint bid with AFKL for VS, the fight for JL a year+ ago) will hopefully make AA wak
44 AirNZ : But, if I can ask, you are stating "so poorly timed" defined by who, or what exactly? For very many there will be no problem at all.
45 floridaflyboy : The Pre-merger DL 900s have life vests, while the Pre-merger NW (XJ) 900s do not.
46 commavia : I don't think an LAX redeye is all that bad (although Delta has failed miserably with many of their other utilization-driven redeye schedules out of
47 MiAAmi : If it didnt work 20 miles up the street at FLL, why would the same schedule work at MIA? The argument that DL couldnt compete with 1 nonstop from NK
48 incitatus : Here is some more food for thought: LGA-MIA is vastly larger and more attractive financially than JFK-MIA. DL has no LGA-MIA presence and AA owns it.
49 jfklganyc : "So if it was back when they were close, it isn't terribly surprising since that's not a hub-to-hub route for DL." Isn't JFK-MIA also a hub to hub rou
50 TOMMY767 : I think this is the icing on the cake, more or less. DL had the balls to start up LAX-MIA before UA could restart it. I'll bet UA might even STILL ha
51 aa787 : Technically, sure. But AA acknowledges that MOST people flying NYC-MIA are O&D passengers. That is why it flies 11 times a day LGA-MIA and only 6
52 goldenstate : I don't see how anybody could credibly argue otherwise. DL has a strong customer base in South Florida, but to the extent that DL and AA's customer b
53 enilria : They need to add SLC-JFK or MSP-LAX to send DL the msg they won't allow this. Those only need vests as I understand it. If they really want to build
54 Delimit : The problem for AA with playing tit for tat with Delta is that it costs Delta less to stay in an unprofitable market.
55 SCL767 : Wouldn't it be great if JL launched NRT-MIA and RJ launched AMM-MIA. When will DL code-share with AR? The only unaligned carriers left at MIA are 5L,
56 Post contains images peanuts : A scenario like this could conceivably unfold once the demand warrants it. E.g: If ATL is experiencing more growth and more daily flights are needed,
57 mayor : I don't recall, but is the first time that DL has tried LAX-MIA? If so, it means that they finally are going to operate the "Southern Transcontinental
58 Post contains images incitatus : I see it more of a Star vs. SkyTeam thing than DL going after AA. If there is going to be a second strong alliance at MIA, DL wants to make sure it i
59 SESGDL : I appreciate your usual condescension, but if JFK-MIA is not a fair comparison to you than I don't know what to tell you. DL started a route with a o
60 SCL767 : Many here on the forum believe that DL is creating a focus city at MIA for LATAM. IMO, if DL wants to start flying into Colombia, LIM and other South
61 PSU.DTW.SCE : Correct, the 9E (Pinnacle) CRJ-900s are overwater equipped (OW), with life vests. AA flying JFK-SLC would be an absolute joke. Making aircraft overwa
62 enilria : Plz explain why? I don't understand. Is that really it? Regardless, those are something to start with. OK fine, than LAX to the DL hubs. It is actual
63 deltal1011man : huh? so that would mean they would be harder to make money in. No your saying it is "utilization-driven" (which is so wrong FYI) so I'm saying if MIA
64 incitatus : Saying that DL started once daily with a regional jet is not the full picture of what happened. DL moved capacity from JFK-FLL to JFK-MIA, so to play
65 Delimit : I am generalizing a bit, but AA's higher costs are going to handicap them when launching a route that is most likely going to be unprofitable for a g
66 yellowtail : MIA is not about transit as it is about O&D. Don't forget Half of LatAmerica wants to go shop in MIA, the other half want to go to NYC A focus ci
67 deltal1011man : I agree 9.9 time out of 10. I didn't, Though nothing wrong with being a fan boy, i said like AA fan boys. Com is a AA fan though.
68 commavia : I never even said anything about making money anywhere. What I was suggesting was that those are lower-yielding, less-business-oriented markets, and
69 Post contains images goldenstate : I wonder if AA shares your amusement. DL is gaining serious revenue momentum and the results are starting to manifest themselves in topline unit reve
70 Post contains images jetlanta : Ahh, but that is not nearly as fun as joking about how Delta doesn't have any sort of network strategy. You know, the old "Delta dartboard strategy"
71 MPDPilot : I think they want to create the operation for the region not the airline. They want ST to have a precense at MIA which right now they don't have as m
72 SCL767 : That was established when DL and ST recruited AR as their first South American member last year as a direct result of the LAN and TAM combination and
73 HVNandrew : Actually I don't think they have. Western flew LAX-MIA at one point, but that was dropped long before the DL merger.
74 Post contains images DL WIDGET HEAD : In terms of flights, yes. Not true in terms of loyal DL customers in SoFla. AA is "johnny come lately" to the area, planting roots in SoFla for the f
75 commavia : Well, in terms of flights, presence and loyalty - basically, in every term, AA is so massively more dominant than Delta. Again ... when it comes to M
76 MSPNWA : And undercut ATL? It is. By saying it isn't one for DL, it's referring to the fact that is one for AA. I wouldn't be so sure about MSP-LAX. Other air
77 slcdeltarumd11 : I think LAX-MSP is an excellent retaliatory route for AA if/when they choose to take that route. I wouldn't say LAX-DTW is out of the question either
78 incitatus : It will happen earlier than that. DL now has some of the poorest hubs in the Nation. In 10 years DL will have a hub in MIA, and large operations in S
79 slcdeltarumd11 : There is no chance that DL leaves SLC especially in 10 years. You are aware that delta supports building of new terminals in SLC? Why would they supp
80 Post contains links C767P : This suggest they did do LAX-MIA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9KZLWDXTK8
81 OA412 : Exactly. It's much more fun to live in the past, and pretend that DL is just throwing darts at a map than to actually look at what their doing. Indee
82 goldenstate : How do you reconcile that statement with the fact that DAL reported slightly better consolidated 2010 PRASM than AMR and within one percentage point
83 LDVAviation : Lie Flats? The product Delta is installing now is not the best in class. So, what competitive advantage if any? It is not like UA and AA don't have c
84 njdevilsin03 : Will we see any of the current operators on the FLL route add a frequency you think? Obv it can support one more Airbus aircraft from one of the remai
85 OA412 : No one suggested that it's best in class. But, it will put them on par with AAs and UAs lie-flat product vs the cradle seat product currently feature
86 Post contains images mayor : I think the person that kept telling us this, may have missed quite a few meetings because it went from "not on the agenda" to "announcement" in a ve
87 Post contains links LDVAviation : And, you expect that growth rate to remain what it is? (Did you also expect the value of your house to keep rising indefinitely?) As it is... Mainlin
88 Post contains images deltal1011man : lol. now i'm hurt I'm waiting for your point Then AA is a big nothing in NYC to the much bigger UA and DL. right after ATL get absorbed by LHR. huh?
89 LDVAviation : In order to proceed with the new TBIT, LAWA entered into an agreement with local community groups to reduce the number of gates at LAX over a period
90 goldenstate : You can keep your opinions. I like facts and data. Lie flats: I don't care how you or anybody else on a.net defines best in class. I'm more intereste
91 LDVAviation : Wrong. Aaway, who knows more about these things than you do, answered my question about this awhile back. He stated that the threshold will be met on
92 LDVAviation : You've provided no rationale for why consolidated numbers are more representative than mainline numbers. Do the regionals fly all or some of the Delt
93 LDVAviation : There was a report in the LATimes or the LA Business Newspaper about the possibility of LAWA taking over T5. According to the article, Delta had appr
94 deltal1011man : not true again. DL will get its three gates no matter what. UA/CO will get 3-4 gates. AS gets the rest. That is all the changed. At this point UA is
95 commavia : Wow - this is getting comical and sad. For the 12-months ending November 2010, AA has 74% market share at Miami compared to 11% for Delta. For the sa
96 goldenstate : Only because you didn't ask; I assumed you would think about it and maybe figure it out. I will break it down for you. Delta and American have very d
97 mayor : I think that crystal ball you're using needs a good cleaning. CVG MAY be gone, MEM MAY be gone, but SLC?? I think not.
98 PacificClipper : The window of opportunity has been lost. AA increased their LAX-MIA offering by 2 flts/day almost immediately after the merger was approved. 9 AA flt
99 MiAAmi : Its amusing how some posteres predict doom and gloom for AA with DL adding just one nonstop against AA's 8 nonstops. AA manages to compete with UA on
100 Post contains links slcdeltarumd11 : Talking about AA in MIA. It looks like AAs gonna try to make MIA even more of a fortress hub for the long term according to this Direct quote "Dolara,
101 Post contains images AAIL86 : Exactly. We can reinvent the wheel in analyzing each network decision and the grand strategy behind it, but in the end, it's one daily round-trip. My
102 scl767 : A dream for MIA is to have a non-stop service between NRT and MIA. JL's B787 can do the job perfectly. JL could link Asia with the Caribbean, Central
103 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : Nice CVG I will buy down the road but not anytime soon. They seem pretty static/stagnant for 2011 at least. Let's wait and see what DL decides to ult
104 incitatus : How do I interpret these two statements? Data is good when it supports a statement, and not "apples to apples" when it conflicts with it? Salt Lake's
105 FlyASAGuy2005 : What's your point. Yet SLC outperforms your "comparable" cities not just for Delta obviously with their hub there but competing airlines. PIT is a jo
106 FSDan : Salt Lake City is also in a vary advantageous geographical location. It is able to connect the Northwest with the Southwest in addition to being a st
107 Post contains images peanuts : Heard of "location" much? Probably most effective way of snuffing out that silly rant... Coming from a strategist, I'm very disappointed. Objectivity
108 SESGDL : And? You've completely ignored the importance of location, which SLC is great for. Only two true Western hubs exists at the moment, SLC and DEN, and
109 mogandoCI : you mean the poorest region ?? like Mississippi and Alabama ? i'm sure UA is crying over not covering every single EAS town And not to mention that D
110 goldenstate : That interpretation is valid only if you chose to ignore or failed to understand the data I provided to support my reasoning that consolidated unit r
111 slcdeltarumd11 : The answer is O&D. SLC kills those cities on o&d. Do you see how many people people fly into/out of SLC each year than those cities? SLC has
112 MiAAmi : Dropping FLL-LAX could be proof too.
113 AAIL86 : The shady ethics and premises behind US bankruptcy law (along with the complete lack of corporate responsibility inherent in today's super-laissez-fa
114 Post contains images peanuts : You missed it. Take a step back and look at the broader picture. Let's recap: If you, objectively, look at DL's and AA's competitive relationship ove
115 MiAAmi : Not saying that DL hasnt had some success but in your recap you seem to edit out the failures. Such as the CVG hub, many failed routes out of LAX, a
116 delimit : Assuming Goldenstate's timetable is correct, DL did not use Chapter 11 to reduce labor costs; they used it to reduce/dismiss/consolidate debt and mak
117 FlyPNS1 : But DL has handed AA a few gifts as well over the past 5-6 years. -Dumping the DFW hub certainly benefited AA and has allowed AA to easily grow DFW i
118 TOMMY767 : DL's drawdown (if you can call it that) was mainly former DL express routes. They have held their own at FLL pretty well since then and have kept the
119 mayor : CVG is in a completely different situation than SLC is. CVG started out as a reliever hub for ATL and is now suffering because of its proximity to DT
120 AAIL86 : So are you saying that if DL did not declare bankruptcy, they would have the same or similar labor costs today?
121 incitatus : Kansas City has a great location. Its economy is a lot bigger than the one around SLC. A Western hub in this sense is as important as having trijets
122 Post contains images SESGDL : Please inform F9, WN, UA, and DL that they are not involved in a real line of business. Of course all of the largest cities are going to be hubs. Tha
123 FSDan : As has been pointed out before, DL does very well against WN in SLC. If anything, WN has retreated a bit recently. And with DEN now being the big foc
124 SESGDL : That wasn't my quote. You are correct, however. In fact, DL will likely fair better at ATL with WN than FL. FL has lower costs, so WN will have to ra
125 incitatus : The largest volume of traffic is East-West. In that sense, SLC and DEN are no different from MSP, PHX and DFW. Different times when DL could make mon
126 deltal1011man : You can't just look at the local market. Look at Atlanta, It is the biggest hub in the world, yet citys like TYO/NYC/LAX/WAS/CHI/LON have much larger
127 goldenstate : Nice work of pulling the GMP statistics. If you're arguing that UAL and AMR have hubs in larger, more mature O&D markets, then congratulations, y
128 mayor : Spoken like a true big city snob. Tell all those people that live WEST of the Mississippi that they don't count and they don't deserve any air servic
129 mayor : And yet they've granted pay raises recently and also handed out over 300 million in profit sharing this year. Doesn't sound like squeezing to me.
130 Post contains images OA412 : That's is aaway's opinion of the matter, LAXintl who also knows quite a bit about the LAX expansion believes that the 4 preferential use gates are fa
131 mayor : I drove 100 miles, round trip, every day to work for 8 1/2 years when I worked at ORD, just so I wouldn't have to live in a big city. These days, it'
132 LAXtoATL : I'm not sure about that. FL has caused DL more competitive problems in ATL than WN has in SLC. WN may prvoe to be more formidable in ATL than FL, but
133 LAXintl : I see my name came up here - True the final design of TBIT is not cast in stone yet as the North airfield design options are still being kicked about
134 yellowtail : FWIW....perhaps the best defense against AA in NYC etc is a good offense in MIA.
135 sxf24 : What's with the obsession with connections on A.net? There is more than enough O&D to support this flight without any connections.
136 FlyASAGuy2005 : BINGO! DL manages to carry a pretty healthy LF on their SYD flight with their so called laughable LAX operation. HND will do just fine in due time.
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