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RE: LH Returns To Lima End Of 2011  
User currently offlinedairy From Germany, joined Nov 2003, 241 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7690 times:

Haven't found that before here....

http://www.aerolatinnews.com/index.php?sector=noticias&noticia=21764


A318/A319/A320/A321 AB3/A306/A310/A333/A343/A346 732/733/735/736/744/752/763/764/772/773 DH3 F70 F100 CR2 CR1 CR7 ATR42
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4482 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7495 times:

TACA and Lufthansa are currently code-sharing into MIA-SAL and LIM-CCS.
The intended LH FRA-LIM would expand this agreement for domestic flights in Peru as well as other destinations out of Peru like La Paz and Santa Cruz which are served by TA for the time being out of LIM.
LH FRA-BOG 5x weekly was other smart addition since October 2010, in order to establish further ways of cooperation between LH, AV and TA.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineRAGAZZO777 From Uruguay, joined Jul 2010, 585 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7474 times:

Actually that was already disscused in the LH to GIG thread. 
Now we're awaiting the official confirmation from Lufthansa itself.

Regards,



JESÚS, TE AMO !!
User currently offlineHirnie From Germany, joined May 2004, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7128 times:

My Spanish is not really good, so is it considered to be non stop? If so it would be a hell of a long ride...

User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6901 times:

Quoting Hirnie (Reply 3):
My Spanish is not really good, so is it considered to be non stop? If so it would be a hell of a long ride...

It would very probably be non-stop. That would make it the second-longest flight on the network (5786NM), well behind FRA-EZE (6197NM) but ahead of FRA-SIN (5553NM).



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5925 posts, RR: 40
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4625 times:

so lets cross fingers to see the official anouncement, they would have of course my business as a german living in Lima!
They are mentioning that most probably it will be out of FRA if it would be out of MUC it would even better news!



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlinecopa330200 From Panama, joined Jan 2011, 208 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4567 times:

congrats LIM !!!

now, if LH will start FRA-LIM , they might be reducing frequencies in other places CCS and BOG ..

hopefully they will add PTY in the near future   



On the run !!!
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5925 posts, RR: 40
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4538 times:

Quoting copa330200 (Reply 6):
now, if LH will start FRA-LIM , they might be reducing frequencies in other places CCS and BOG ..

my bet goes to CCS, or even maybe they will serve still with same frequency the flights, BOG will go soon daily.
I bet the LIM flight will be perfectly scheduled to connect to LPB/VVI, SCL and some other southern destinations like MVD, in some in argentina.



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineRAGAZZO777 From Uruguay, joined Jul 2010, 585 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4507 times:

Quoting copa330200 (Reply 6):
if LH will start FRA-LIM , they might be reducing frequencies in other places CCS and BOG ..

I do not think so. If anything, Lufthansa is boosting its presence in South America. They just added BOG last year to its route network and it has been officially confirmed that the Frankfurt-Rio de Janeiro service will begin this year.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 7):
I bet the LIM flight will be perfectly scheduled to connect to LPB/VVI, SCL and some other southern destinations like MVD, in some in argentina.

I'm sure that the new LH service out of Lima will allow people to connect to destinations in Bolivia (namely, La Paz and Santa Cruz de la Sierra). However, LIM is not the ideal hub for connections to/from the South Cone when travelling to Europe. Passengers in Santiago and Montevideo can already fly to São Paulo-Guarulhos and connect there to/from Frankfurt and Munich.



JESÚS, TE AMO !!
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4482 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4492 times:

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 8):
I'm sure that the new LH service out of Lima will allow people to connect to destinations in Bolivia (namely, La Paz and Santa Cruz de la Sierra). However, LIM is not the ideal hub for connections to/from the South Cone when travelling to Europe. Passengers in Santiago and Montevideo can already fly to São Paulo-Guarulhos and connect there to/from Frankfurt and Munich.


LH FRA-LIM may attend perfectly Bolivia through TA LIM-VVI and TA LIM-LPB as posted on my reply number one.
TACA recently asked for traffic rights into LIM-CBB and that possible route may be also forming part of the intended equation of Star Alliance in that geographical zone.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5925 posts, RR: 40
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4439 times:

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 8):
I'm sure that the new LH service out of Lima will allow people to connect to destinations in Bolivia (namely, La Paz and Santa Cruz de la Sierra). However, LIM is not the ideal hub for connections to/from the South Cone when travelling to Europe. Passengers in Santiago and Montevideo can already fly to São Paulo-Guarulhos and connect there to/from Frankfurt and Munich.

well maybe not ideal for MVD but why not for SCL? specially in case that JJ will leave Star. Also TA is offering other destinations out of LIM like Antafagasta, and other once in Argentina.



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineRAGAZZO777 From Uruguay, joined Jul 2010, 585 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4422 times:

Since Lufthansa is 'returning' to Lima, I think SCL is on their radar as well. SCL in an important destination in South America and I think Lufthansa (given TAM's possible exit from Star Alliance) could tag on a service to SCL from GRU or EZE.

I agree that Antofagasta-based pax can use the LIM hub to connect with European flights. By the way, TACA's current only destination in Argentina is Buenos Aires. They had to drop Mendoza because of the ANAC (Argentina's DoT).


Regards,



JESÚS, TE AMO !!
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4395 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4272 times:

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 11):
Since Lufthansa is 'returning' to Lima, I think SCL is on their radar as well.

SCL is AFAIK the only airport in Latin Amerika that cannot be reached non stop by A343/346 from Germany with meaningful load, and would be the only airport to justify 2 A345, but that makes no sense fleet wise. And start with 748I/A388 may be a bit of an overkill.


User currently offlineRAGAZZO777 From Uruguay, joined Jul 2010, 585 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4248 times:

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 12):
SCL is AFAIK the only airport in Latin Amerika that cannot be reached non stop by A343/346 from Germany with meaningful load

That's why SCL would be most likely operated via São Paulo or Buenos Aires.



JESÚS, TE AMO !!
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9330 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4186 times:

Wouldn't it make much more sense to fly FRA/LIM/SCL?. That would justfy a 346.

LH did have a west coast service before in the 707 and D10 days and if my memory is right they once servced SCL both via LIM (and the stations en route from JFK downwards) and RIO/SAO or BUE



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineRAGAZZO777 From Uruguay, joined Jul 2010, 585 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4131 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 14):
Wouldn't it make much more sense to fly FRA/LIM/SCL?. That would justfy a 346.

That would not be the best routing. Look at this:

Frankfurt to Santiago via GRU and LIM


Frankfurt to Santiago via Lima is 13,169 km, whereas FRA to SCL via São Paulo is 12,391 km, which is significantly shorter. As I earlier said, LIM is not the ideal hub for connections to Europe from Santiago.

Regards,



JESÚS, TE AMO !!
User currently offlineLH422 From Germany, joined Sep 2010, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4113 times:

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 12):
SCL is AFAIK the only airport in Latin Amerika that cannot be reached non stop by A343/346 from Germany with meaningful load, and would be the only airport to justify 2 A345, but that makes no sense fleet wise.

It would be the longest A346 route at the moment but only 13 nm longer than EY's SYD-AUH. Certainly doable with their A346 HGW. They've flown MUC-SCL as a charter before using an A346.


User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4042 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 14):
Wouldn't it make much more sense to fly FRA/LIM/SCL?. That would justfy a 346.
Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 15):
Frankfurt to Santiago via Lima is 13,169 km, whereas FRA to SCL via São Paulo is 12,391 km, which is significantly shorter. As I earlier said, LIM is not the ideal hub for connections to Europe from Santiago.

Distance is not everything, there are also other considerations. A detour of 800km can be economically viable if the pax numbers work out better that way. LH's flights to GRU are usually very full already, and if they routed a SCL service via GRU, the seats of the pax headed to SCL would be missing from the GRU market. Routing FRA-LIM-SCL is at least worth considering, because it would allow LH to combine two "thinner" routes (which is what they would both be, at least at the beginning). The other question would be whether LH would have traffic rights on LIM-SCL-LIM and whether they might possibly be able to attract more local pax on this routing than on GRU-SCL-GRU.



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9330 posts, RR: 29
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 4 days ago) and read 3943 times:

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 17):
Distance is not everything,

exactly. FRA/GRU sustains itself whereas FRA/LIM/SCL with an A346 would be a perfect match. LH could even get 5th freedom rights, as does LA on MAD/FRA.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8805 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 4 days ago) and read 3906 times:
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Quoting copa330200 (Reply 6):
now, if LH will start FRA-LIM , they might be reducing frequencies in other places CCS and BOG ..

hopefully they will add PTY in the near future

But will CM discontinue its relationship with both Condor and KLM at PTY?


User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4482 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3758 times:

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 11):
Lufthansa (given TAM's possible exit from Star Alliance) could tag on a service to SCL from GRU or EZE.


Swiss flew ZRH-GRU-SCL and the tag-on to Santiago was suspended because JJ operates that segment on behalf of LH/LX and covered by the Star Alliance banner.
I also expect new ways of cooperation if TAM goes out of Star Alliance.




.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 14):
Wouldn't it make much more sense to fly FRA/LIM/SCL?.


Perhaps the discussed LH FRA-GRU-SCL-LIM-FRA is not possible with one only plane, if they may operate that route on a daily basis later.
One new code-share agreement with LH into LIM-SCL is a better idea.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3673 times:

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 17):
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 14):
Wouldn't it make much more sense to fly FRA/LIM/SCL?. That would justfy a 346.
Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 15):
Frankfurt to Santiago via Lima is 13,169 km, whereas FRA to SCL via São Paulo is 12,391 km, which is significantly shorter. As I earlier said, LIM is not the ideal hub for connections to Europe from Santiago.


Distance is not everything, there are also other considerations. A detour of 800km can be economically viable if the pax numbers work out better that way. LH's flights to GRU are usually very full already, and if they routed a SCL service via GRU, the seats of the pax headed to SCL would be missing from the GRU market. Routing FRA-LIM-SCL is at least worth considering, because it would allow LH to combine two "thinner" routes (which is what they would both be, at least at the beginning). The other question would be whether LH would have traffic rights on LIM-SCL-LIM and whether they might possibly be able to attract more local pax on this routing than on GRU-SCL-GRU.


Within 12 months LH started/will have started BOG, GIG, LIM. They went daily on MUC-GRU. That is a lot for LH in South America.

The economic evironment is certainly not helping to start long thin routes like SCL would be from FRA (oil price). Therefore the alternative is to fly SCL as a tag from GRU, GIG or LIM. With respect to a tag on on either of the two GRU flights it would mean that LH loses one parking place which I understand are very valuable because of the limited capacity in GRU and LH would need two more slots in GRU, which I understand are also hard to get. I am not sure how easy it would be to again receive a day parking place for the aircraft in GRU in case the tag on does not work. Secondly the flights are full anyhow, so you would not gain anything. A tag on from GIG or LIM is probably easier but as mentioned earlier in this thread, passengers will not gain significant time vs. the connection with JJ in GRU.

Also longhaul aircraft, especially 330/343/346 sized are utilized to the max.

Conclusion from my side 2012 will be the year to stabalize the new flights and to observe the outcome of the LATAM merger and alliance decision. Earliest in 2013 we may see SCL, PTY, UIO, or SJO being served by LH or LX.



NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently offline123 From Bolivia, joined Nov 2003, 745 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3656 times:

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 9):
TACA recently asked for traffic rights into LIM-CBB

The news could not come at a better moment.

PZ is right now the only international carrier serving CBB, and I know well from different sources, that CBB is in urgent need of more international direct access. For instance when the 5L services from MAD&MIA arrive at VVI, most pax are transiting to CBB, which makes havoc at VVI because the pax have to split to different aircraft during the day.

Personally for me, GRU has always been the best conection option as from CBB (where I live) it´s easy to reach with 5L or PZ services, whereas LIM has been a disaster, as the conection times from/to LIM via LPB/VVI are really very, very bad.

If LH wants to really "feed" LIM services with Bolivian pax, they do have to also impose Taca and perhaps LAN, to improve their schedules to more comfortable times - plus add CBB - to be able to compete against feeding in GRU.

One more point, it was mentioned that KE and AF also want to serve LIM. LH should be concerned about KE, as they are a perfect option for those pax (incl. myself. LH Senator..) to fly to Asia. Why fly via Europe if you can hop on KE at LIM and fly to Asia?


User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3574 times:

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 20):
Within 12 months LH started/will have started BOG

Any ideas on lf on the BOG flight??



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8805 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3554 times:
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Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 20):
Swiss flew ZRH-GRU-SCL and the tag-on to Santiago was suspended because JJ operates that segment on behalf of LH/LX and covered by the Star Alliance banner.

I wouldn't be surprised if QR beats them to it!

Quoting LH506 (Reply 21):
Conclusion from my side 2012 will be the year to stabalize the new flights and to observe the outcome of the LATAM merger and alliance decision. Earliest in 2013 we may see SCL, PTY, UIO, or SJO being served by LH or LX.

LH will certainly be back at UIO. AF plans on returning as well.

Quoting 123 (Reply 22):
Why fly via Europe if you can hop on KE at LIM and fly to Asia?

Well LAN operates LIM-LAX 10x daily, so it will be interesting to see if they route said service via LAX...


25 123 : What? 10x daily? Even if it is weekly, it is for pax from Bolivia not always a good option, because we would need to change aircraft/airline in LIM a
26 777jaah : I thought all sterile zones were abolished ib the US by the TSA.....I might be wrong.... edit: spelling[Edited 2011-02-28 07:45:41]
27 RAGAZZO777 : Yea, SCL767 meant there are 10 nonstop flights/week between Lima and Los Angeles. And yes, I agree that LAN's flight times to Bolivian destinations o
28 IAD380 : Looking at the map, wouldn't the most direct route be something like FRA-REC-SCL or FRA-SSA-SCL? I am assuming that LH would not operate flights to S
29 flyingalex : Yes, but again, distance is not everything. I am not sure whether REC and SSA can generate the sort of premium traffic LH courts and heavily relies o
30 jcavinato : My first trip to South America was in 1975 on LH from JFK. Full flights out and back. The equipment rotated out FRA-JFK-Guayaquil- LIM and back. Great
31 flyingalex : There is no way LH would operate FRA-GRU-SCL-LIM-FRA. FRA-GRU-SCL-GRU-FRA maybe, FRA-LIM-SCL-LIM-FRA maybe, but FRA-GRU-SCL-LIM-FRA, not a chance!
32 LipeGIG : Lets see if something happen. Considering that LH launches routes well in advance time is short to launch LIM this year. It's a change on strategy for
33 SCL767 : Oil Prices. Keep in mind that LH faces competition from LAN on the SCL-MAD-FRA route.
34 SJOtoLIR : AF CDG-LIM 5x weekly with 772 is due to start on June 21st. . LA LAX-LIM-SCL 7x weekly LP LAX-LIM-EZE 3x weekly Regards.
35 SR4ever : Wouldn't a 358 fit well on FRA-SCL? LH, probably. LX, well, I don't think they would serve any other airport than SCL on the list which you made. EZE
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