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Rumour: QF May Drop FRA Services Due To Curfew  
User currently offlineAlitaliaDC10 From Australia, joined Dec 2008, 240 posts, RR: 1
Posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 18398 times:

There is a rumour that QF is once again reviewing whether to keep its QF5/QF6 flights SYD-SIN-FRA-SIN-SYD if the proposed 11PM curfew is enforced at FRA airport once the 4th runway is operational.

Presently QF6 departs FRA around 2320 and 2350 once Euro summer starts...The option for QF is to extend the stop in SIN (it can't bring departure forward at SYD has an early morning curfew). The implications for QF are costly as apart from extended fees at SIN it also goes into a 'page 2' for crew time therefore more costs.

QF is sending their legal team to negotiate with FRAport to allow departure after 2300 or it will "threaten" pulling out of FRA - frankly I don't think the Germans would mind too much...

Other ports are being considered such as VIE / MUC / MXP and obviously BER given Air Belin's alliance in oneworld.

[Edited 2011-02-27 18:23:34]


Orbis non sufficit
81 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4829 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 18035 times:

There have been rumours floating for the past few months that QF actually wants a 2nd Europe destination besides FRA (VIE being one I have heard). It would come from dropping one of the LHR flights. That of course frees up a slot at LHR for a LAX-LHR service.
As for FRA I don't see why they can't just time it like the SIN-LHR flights... leave SIN in the evening, arrive FRA early morning. Leave FRA about 1100, arrive SIN in the early morning, then arrive in SYD late evening.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineAirvan00 From Australia, joined Oct 2008, 758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 17964 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 1):
As for FRA I don't see why they can't just time it like the SIN-LHR flights... leave SIN in the evening, arrive FRA early morning. Leave FRA about 1100, arrive SIN in the early morning, then arrive in SYD late evening.

One reason is that the catchment area would be smaller. The current late departure allows connecting flights from everywhere in Europe. I recently came back on QF32 (1115 departure from LHR) connecting from AMS. The departure from AMS had to be the first flight of the day with an early start. I suspect that QF32 is mainly London originating pax with some from AMS, CDG.
(Despite what people on here say about connecting at LHR, the transfer from 5 to 3 was a breeze)

[Edited 2011-02-27 20:51:41]

User currently offlinePEET7G From Hungary, joined Jan 2007, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17872 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 1):
VIE being one I have heard

VIE would be simply crazy. Very limited O&D traffic and almost 0 connections on OW alliance flights. Hell even BUD would make more sense, with a good co-operation with Oneworld member MA they could set up the "East-European" access-point. Besides there is a huge Hungarian diaspora in Australia that could support some (definitely will not fill a full flight, but more than Austrians would)

Although FRA is a Star hub, the QF flight works there because of the large O&D traffic, VIE does not promise traffic of that kind in that amount at all.

p.s.: by accident I am currently in Melbourne visiting my childhood friend (Hungarian too) who works here, and I came for the weekend to the WSBK Championships Phillip Island round and head back to KUL for some work on EK tonight. I use EK for such visits to him, but the newly opened QR flight to BUD will feast on the Hungary to Australia traffic I am sure!



Peet7G
User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3822 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17864 times:

I never understood why they have their 744 sitting around the T3 apron at FRA the whole day. Isn't there a way to time this flight that doesn't ground it for so many hours? What a waste of money! At least let it fly a tag-on in the meantime.

Soren   



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineAirvan00 From Australia, joined Oct 2008, 758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17833 times:

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 4):
I never understood why they have their 744 sitting around the T3 apron at FRA the whole day. Isn't there a way to time this flight that doesn't ground it for so many hours? What a waste of money! At least let it fly a tag-on in the meantime.

Qantas do that everywhere (LHR, FRA, LAX). Maintenance is often done at those "outposts". And as people on here will tell you, tag-on flights lose money.


User currently onlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8565 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17751 times:
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Quoting PEET7G (Reply 3):
VIE would be simply crazy. Very limited O&D traffic and almost 0 connections on OW alliance flights.

I agree that VIE doesn't make sense , however , don't forget that AirBerlin affiliate Niki will also be part of the OW product lineup .... nevertheless , I don't see that being enough for VIE to make sense for QF , particularly with BUD so close where there is OW feed in the shape of MA . To be honest if QF were to pull out of FRA I would suspect that they will not replace it with another European city , unless it is in the form of a codeshare operated by Jetstar once they start flying to Europe .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinePEET7G From Hungary, joined Jan 2007, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17656 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 6):
To be honest if QF were to pull out of FRA I would suspect that they will not replace it with another European city , unless it is in the form of a codeshare operated by Jetstar once they start flying to Europe .

I totally agree, however that will simply give up all of the EU (apart from UK and Ireland) to Australia market to EK, QR and EY. I know I will never backtrack all the way to LHR just to make the trip here on a Oneworld flight. Maybe CX starting up a flight to BUD fed by MA on the BUD end and offering connections through HKG, but honestly it can not compete in convenience with the many flights of EK and QR into the region  



Peet7G
User currently offlineJulian773 From Australia, joined Aug 2009, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17638 times:

Wouldn't DUS or BER work out fine with Air Berlin joining OW, or do they have similar curfews?
Why not CDG? Doesn't QF codeshare with AF anyway?


User currently offlinepsa1011 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 297 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17596 times:
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Why not exchange FRA for MAD and have oneworld connections?

User currently onlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8565 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17575 times:
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Quoting psa1011 (Reply 9):

Why not exchange FRA for MAD and have oneworld connections?

From Australia MAD is a fantastic connection point .... so long as you want to go to Portugal or Western Spain ! Unfortunately for the rest of Europe it involves ( often substantial ) backtracking ... then again , QF have already demonstrated their fondness for making European pax overfly their destination only to have to backtrack from LHR , so maybe MAD would fit in with their current European strategy Big grin

[Edited 2011-02-27 21:33:55]


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinegardermoen From Australia, joined Jul 1999, 1522 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 17539 times:

Totally agree with others that if QF drop FRA, they will most probably not replace it, eve though BER would be the ideal oneworld hub replacement.
This reason seems like a perfect "excuse" to drop FRA.


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5651 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 17405 times:

Quoting Julian773 (Reply 8):
Why not CDG? Doesn't QF codeshare with AF anyway?

Because the french won't give QF daily access to CDG. Roll on an EU/Australia open skies!

gemuser



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User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2977 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 17261 times:

Given the fact that SYD has curfew issues, maybe that has more to do with the issue regarding the FRA flight. Just thinking out loud, but always a possibility.

As for Europe and QF, with JQ set to tackle FCO and ATH at some stage, I can see a near total retreat to LHR for the main brand in the future. BER offers great connection possibilities, via AB, but its O&D would likely be lower, and yields would also likely suffer. That appears more of a JQ type destination to me.

VIE would not work, even in the most optimistic mindset. I also do not see BUD working, but as suggested before, it makes more sense than VIE. MAD offers very little in the way of connection benefits from Australia unfortunately, given its location, and would likely have lower O&D and yield potential.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9368 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 17181 times:

Quoting AlitaliaDC10 (Thread starter):
FRA - frankly I don't think the Germans would mind too much...

Never generalize enything. Of course we would mind.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 1):
As for FRA I don't see why they can't just time it like the SIN-LHR flights.

that would be an excellent option, arriving SYD in the evening always has been the better way to travel down under. QF could pull their departure forward to 23h00 under the terms, I believe but not sure. An actual take off then at 23h20 or so would be "legal".

Quoting Julian773 (Reply 8):
Wouldn't DUS or BER work out fine with Air Berlin joining OW, or do they have similar curfews?

negative. Both DUS and BER have even worse curfew restrictions than FRA will ever have, plus the runway at DUS will not be able to accomodate 747-400s at full load to SIN.. We have to wait how the legal procedure will turn out and LH and other carriers will certainly appeal should the night curfew happen. It is simply idiotic to close a major world hub for 6 hours each night.

The only valid option for QF5 would really be FRA with all the feeder traffic that is available here. An 11h00 am departure could even receive feeder traffic from MAN/BHX/LHR . The evening departure gets lots of that BTW.

[Edited 2011-02-27 23:01:02]


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User currently offlinesmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1533 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 17101 times:

What if this service was moved from Syd to Mel? We don't have a curfew here? Means the service could leave FRA earlier with out issues arriving into SYD and the SYD pax could be accommodated on another outbound SIN service (is there a London service that passes through SIN a short time later?)

User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9368 posts, RR: 29
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 16987 times:

I've been on QF5 several times and usually connected to BNE. I think there are connections to all major pölaces in Australia and an 11pm departure would mean an additinal 30 minutes transit time, It would add however as was mentioned above to the operating costs.

OTH, leaving FRA around noon time would make an early morning arrival at SIN and connect with the morning bank to Australia.

I believe that this would really be an option, especially since with the new runway at FRRA, slots will become available and the other airports mentioned are no alternative.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5239 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 16868 times:

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 7):
I totally agree, however that will simply give up all of the EU (apart from UK and Ireland) to Australia market to EK, QR and EY.

Sounds like the V Australia / Etihad deal could be a winner!


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 16759 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 1):
Leave FRA about 1100, arrive SIN in the early morning, then arrive in SYD late evening.

Would be very unpopular timing. For tourists would mean one more holiday day needed, remember we only have 30 and these are completely booked out, for buisiness would mean one more working day lost - at that timing they couldn't fill a 744, a 788 maybe but that doesn't have the range I'm afraid.

I count this more to add political pressure to not take the curfew so serious as the left wing spectrum in Germany wants it to be taken.


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2977 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 16701 times:

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 15):
What if this service was moved from Syd to Mel? We don't have a curfew here? Means the service could leave FRA earlier with out issues arriving into SYD and the SYD pax could be accommodated on another outbound SIN service (is there a London service that passes through SIN a short time later?)

That would make sense, but not sure QF will care for it. Keeping the SYD hub strong is its main aim at all times, so such a move just devalues it.

There was talk of a MEL-SIN/BKK-FRA a while back but nothing came of it.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9368 posts, RR: 29
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 16696 times:

Quite contrary, Burkhard. When you hit Australia early in the morning and check into your Hotel, you have to pay the full rate for the precending night. Form own experience I can tell you that it is much better to check in at 8 pm and have a full night s sleep and be ready for the next day.

Our friends from most other countries will pity us that we only have 30 days vacation per annum.   . But as said above, they don't lose a day, they rather gain a day and most people have to travel to FRA anyhow to connect to QF 5 and not leave the office at 5 pm to fly to Oz at 11.30 pm.

I am sure that the flight would be as full early afternoon as it is in the late evening.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 16087 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 20):
But as said above, they don't lose a day, they rather gain a day and most people have to travel to FRA anyhow to connect to QF 5 and not leave the office at 5 pm to fly to Oz at 11.30 pm.

I am sure that the flight would be as full early afternoon as it is in the late evening.

I disagree. When a friend of mine was living there, I flew to Singapore twice on that flight, both times for long weekends. Leave after work Thursday night, fly back Monday night from Singapore and back to work on Thursday morning. It was a great way to see the sun in the middle of winter while burning only two days off. On one of my flights I sat next to an Aussie who had been in Germany for business. He said he loved the flight's timings because he could get in a full day's work in Frankfurt before flying home.

While the flight times you mention would be good for leisure travellers, they would seriously cut into business travel, which in the end is what pays QF's bills.

Quoting AlitaliaDC10 (Thread starter):
Presently QF6 departs FRA around 2320 and 2350 once Euro summer starts...The option for QF is to extend the stop in SIN (it can't bring departure forward at SYD has an early morning curfew). The implications for QF are costly as apart from extended fees at SIN it also goes into a 'page 2' for crew time therefore more costs.

Could you explain this statement a little? I understand what you mean about additional parking fees at SIN if the aircraft turns up there earlier, but what difference would it make for the crew (which is changed in SIN anyway) if the aircraft spends three hours on the ground rather than two? The old crew leaves the a/c once the pax are off and the new crew comes on shortly before boarding, right? Or is there a handover of the aircraft during which both crews must be present?



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User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9368 posts, RR: 29
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 15666 times:

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 21):
He said he loved the flight's timings because he could get in a full day's work in Frankfurt before flying home.

Well, the average leisure traveller spends more than 2 days down under. My next trip is scheduled March 31 and I will be back April 6th in the morning. That's short already, on most of my trips to Oz I spend about a week there, sometimes bedding this into Far east trips which then coivered about 2-3 weeks. Getting in here at 6 am and flying home at 11 pm is a bit rough.

In any case, I do hope that sanity prevails and the necessary flights between 2300 and 0500 are permitted. In which case QF would most likely leave oit like it is. Otherwise, the day departure is the only option they actually have, neither BER nor DUS (BER and DUS due to even harsher curfew rules and DUS due to runway lenght) nor any other European city outside the UK would offer the same number of pax as FRA does.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 15426 times:

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 3):
VIE would be simply crazy
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 6):
I agree that VIE doesn't make sense

But surely it must be acknowledged that if QF are considering VIE then it [must make sense to them and thus fit their business plan. It doesn't have to 'make sense' to anyone else at all.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 22):
Well, the average leisure traveller spends more than 2 days down under

To be accurate, the average leisure traveller spends considerably more than a mere two days in Australia, so am curious as to what significance you mention two days for!!!

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 21):
they would seriously cut into business travel, which in the end is what pays QF's bills.

Absolutely incorrect, but the usual a.net myth of course!!


User currently offlineADDICT4QF From Australia, joined Feb 2011, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 15359 times:

Given that the loads on this route are quite good and it's always a daily service, I would find it hard to believe that it is a financially under-performing route compared to other international routes and therefore would do alot to keep this route - I'm sure they will work something out in terms of departure/arrival times to keep FRA in their network  .

[Edited 2011-02-28 03:35:44]

[Edited 2011-02-28 03:37:15]

[Edited 2011-02-28 03:38:06]

25 EK413 : I've wondered why QF don't have a tag-on to the QF5 service... The aircraft could easily operate a service to another European port and return in tim
26 PanHAM : reading "flyinalex" contribution 21 will enlighten you, although he went to SIN only on that flight. . leave me out of the quote, I know how the QF S
27 fab747 : Hello all, Contrary to all the rumours, QF is not leaving FRA! They might even have plan to add an extra new service eventually to BER as AirBerlin is
28 Zkpilot : MAD makes little sense aside from it being OW. Little O&D traffic and all traffic from UK/EU would be backtracking. HEL would be a good choice for
29 na : Absolutely! I think they´ll find a way. That route is important. German tourists cant be ignored by the Aussies as well as by the German authorities
30 ordjoe : I feel bad for any QF ground employees in FRA that might lose their jobs because of these dam NIMBYS and the curfews implemented to appease them
31 ANstar : Why would they extend the service when it is often full flying just to FRA?
32 flyingalex : Would you explain this a bit more please? I wouldn't dream of flying to Oz for two days. What I was talking about earlier was flying to Singapore for
33 Post contains images Prince : Some food for thought (based on OAG analysis of a typical week in July 2011). Oneworld-Destinations available from hubs: BER: 70 HEL: 69 BUD: 52 VIE:
34 flyingalex : QF gets more than just oneworld feed at FRA. They have interline agreements with several non-oneworld airlines, including LH, to deliver feed. The LH
35 PanHAM : You get multiple choice at around the same times, LH to BKK connectint to TG., TG through, SQ via SIN, EK via DXB I chose LH to BKK then TG simply fo
36 Post contains images fxramper : A big part FX left FRA and built a home at CGN was the curfew.
37 ANstar : I dont think that data is accurate at all. Looking at the oneworld website, then selecting their route map and choosing NON STOP & NON Code share
38 mogandoCI : QF is just killing themselves by flying the StarAlliance hub-to-hub route, esp since you're up against one of the strongest brands in the world. They
39 kiwiandrew : I think that the key word in there is "if" . Apart from the original post , which does not provide a source ( indeed the OP is refreshingly upfront i
40 Post contains images Prince : Apologies, I should have mentioned that my analysis assumes Air Berlin and Niki have joined oneworld - given QF are not likely to change anything unt
41 flyingalex : I see a reasonable case for QF service to BER once the new airport is online and AB has joined oneworld. But even with Niki in oneworld, I think the
42 gemuser : QF have/had the largest airline order for B787s on order for more than 6 years! Boeing is over 3 years late with deliveries! QF has been established
43 ANstar : They fly SIN to PER, ADL, MEL, BNE, SYD , LHR, FRA and if you include JQ with QF code CNS and DRW too.
44 kiwiandrew : and SIN-AKL as well starting soon ( or is that Jetstar Asia rather than Jetstar Aussie ? I assume QF will codeshare on this service )
45 Post contains links r2rho : I for one hope that these are not just rumors and empty threats. Somebody needs to give the politicians a clear message. It seems BER will have a midn
46 ANstar : Jetstar Asia - but if we include them too, then they would definately be the 2nd largest carrier (QF/JQ) at SIN by far.
47 travelin man : Did I miss something here? QF wants to start LAX-LHR?
48 kiwiandrew : I'm confused , are you saying that QF would drop an LHR flight in order to add an LHR flight ?
49 ABpositive : One good advantage of FRA is that Qantas has codeshare with German Railway and the station is located right at the airport. I have used this connectio
50 Post contains links jsoprano : That is not true. As others mentioned here before, QF has a lot of connectivity through FRA on non-OW and OW carriers + Deutsche Bahn. But more impor
51 Airvan00 : I agree that they will fix the problem. I'm not sure having a change of aircraft makes much difference now days (execpt physoligically). Even when co
52 Viscount724 : You would need another crew that would only work for 3 or 4 hours a day. Also doubles the number of cycles on the aircraft, meaning higher maintenanc
53 ag92 : You forgot BOM
54 VT977 : Why can''t OF ask the SYD authorities to relax the curfew for the flight so that the can leave FRA at 11.00 PM? They are negotiating with FRA so why n
55 gemuser : Ha Ha Ha There can be NO negotiation at SYDNEY because the curfew is an Act of Parliament and contains no provision for exceptions/negotiations. The
56 AusA380 : Highly unlikely - the politics around the Sydney curfew is huge. There is already an exemption for I think 4 early morning flights to land in the las
57 Post contains images EK413 : Take a chill pill...Relax...I will remember not to quote you next time Just a suggestion to feed traffic to OW carrier AB... That answers my question
58 lightsaber : I'm surprised curfews at airports haven't created more constraints. If it was only 'up to the authorities' to relax the requirements. That would requ
59 PanHAM : Unfortunately the courts don't care what customers want. Also, there is nothing to negotiate about, similar to SYD. We have to wait and see what the o
60 Burkhard : Since I use the eveneing trains oftenly, I can add that this railway connection seems to be very well used, from a large catchment area. I repeat I s
61 EK413 : Since you touch the subject of the curfew... What has the 4th runway got anything to do with the curfew? Im curious to know... EK413
62 AirNZ : I don't think there is anything 'unfortunate' at all about such matters. The role of courts in any country is to adjudicate on, and uphold, laws with
63 PanHAM : I would have to explain to you the whole agony of the expansion of Frankfurt airport which I will not do here. I can assure you that I am a strong su
64 flyingalex : I don't remember the exact details, but it involves state politics in Hessen and a court somewhere. Basically, one of the conditions that was to be i
65 Post contains links PanHAM : yes, and that is a legend. It was never discussed to the end and the opponents of the expansion made this a one-sided condition. Consumers, exporters
66 AirNiugini : If timing is a problem, could they operate QF5/6 via Hong Kong? Would that make much difference? With QF29/30 flying via Hong Kong to London, does QF
67 flyingalex : I absolutely agree with you. FRA needs to remain curfew-free. It wasn't quite a "legend" though - if the CDU had not won the state parliament electio
68 PanHAM : I do not know the traffic rights QF has in the bilateral, they do have full rights to SIN , not sure about FRA/ HKG. I am very much on this topic. The
69 Post contains links tayser : HKG is the most liberal of Asian ports in terms of 5th freedoms. Only restriction is Australia-HKG-Mainland China. SIN is fine for Australia-SIN-Euro
70 kiwiandrew : ZRH would have been a great replacement for FRA for QF in Europe rather than VIE or BUD ... if BA hadn't #$%&ed things up with LX to the point whe
71 lightsaber : As discussed, it is as much as I know: I hope it is open at night. The US media has made it sound pretty final. I hope otherwise as FRA does 'need th
72 Viscount724 : However ZRH has a much more restrictive night curfew than FRA and also has restrictive operating conditions to comply with German noise regulations w
73 Burkhard : Interesting, didn't hear this story yet. Fact is the following, though, that there was a mediation process. In this a compromise was searched and def
74 PanHAM : Yes, and that would not hold up in court since the interests of the airlines, the freight forwarders, the exporting companies and many more has not be
75 Zkpilot : QF have a lot of aircraft sitting around at LAX. They want to add another EU destination but this would likely reduce demand for their LHR flights. L
76 vfw614 : Those figures are not particularly useful. A destination can only be considered as providing feed for a QF longhaul if it is served at least twice da
77 Post contains images PanHAM : it's not the proper thread, but I cannot resist to say "Posemuckel" again. They should ask in DTM what these idiotic oipening hours mean to an airpor
78 SKAirbus : I think the LAX - LHR is quite saturated at the moment. United Airlines, American Airlines, British Airways, Virgin Atlantic and Air New Zealand all o
79 Post contains images flyingalex : Absolutely. It's unbelievable how many stones are being laid in BBI's path before the airport is even operational. But that's Berlin for you - one st
80 r2rho : whooops, there goes any hope for BBI then... I can already imagine how crippled of an airport BBI will be the day it opens...
81 Zkpilot : A lot of airlines yes, saturated? no... Its a BIG city pair... and has onward connections in Europe and a few from LA. AF doesn't have a large presen
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