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ANA Talking With SJC  
User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6146 posts, RR: 23
Posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10916 times:

Apparently SJC officials have been speaking with ANA. Possible 787 route?

Found in SFgate.com

What's in a name: What's really behind adding Silicon Valley to the name of the already long-winded Norman Y. Mineta San Jose International Airport?

Japan's All Nippon Airlines.

According to San Jose City Councilman Sam Liccardo, when Mayor Chuck Reed and a local business delegation met with airline execs in Tokyo recently to try to lure All Nippon service to the South Bay, they were told they should first consider adding Silicon Valley to the airport's name.

That would attract more business travelers, the execs said.

So, with Mineta's blessing, San Jose officials are weighing the idea - though they've put off a decision while they see how Norman Y. Mineta San Jose/Silicon Valley International Airport flies with the flying public.

Also a curious note. Suggesting a change in name


"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
77 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2956 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10899 times:

That's if and when the 787 is certified and delivered.
Serious, these are just talks and SJC lacks any connecting options for Star Alliance and NH but who knows with cargo.


User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10873 times:

Quoting carpethead (Reply 1):
who knows with cargo.

What sort of benefit would one gain from flying cargo from Tokyo to San Jose rather than San Francisco and then putting said cargo on a truck? Or the reverse, obviously.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3076 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10273 times:

It's no secret that SJC is trying to lure another carrier to fly SJC-NRT to replace the dearly departed AA flights 128/129. I believe that SJC talked to NW a few years ago about putting an A330 on the route. NW (and now DL) has quite a network of flights to NRT, so that made sense, but apparently NW wasn't interested.

User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6146 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10090 times:

Quoting carpethead (Reply 1):

Well we know the 787 will come, it's a matter of time. I'm just posting this for grins and cause it took me by surprise they'd even talked. The route would be purely O/D.

I don't see any reason that ANA couldn't operate SJC-NRT/HND with a 787 and keep SFO with a 77W. It's not like there is is a thin market share of Japanese travel the Bay Area is fighting over. If SJC can use nice prices and incentives, why not!

Premium traffic could keep the route profitable, with coach and cargo as icing on the cake as AA put it when they flew the route.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10052 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 4):
I don't see any reason that ANA couldn't operate SJC-NRT/HND with a 787 and keep SFO with a 77W. It's not like there is is a thin market share of Japanese travel the Bay Area is fighting over.

SJC market is restricted (and its airport is too small). yes it's closed to Silicon Valley, but for all the companies in PaloAlto or MountainView (facebook, Google, you name it) - SFO is only barely further than SJC

I'd think a better bet is 737-700ER or 762, all J config. With aux tanks, *maybe* the 737 can make it out to NRT.


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2870 posts, RR: 30
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9978 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 4):
cause it took me by surprise they'd even talked. The route would be purely O/D.

Not all that surprising. Any airport under decent management will strive to get as much airline service as possible, no matter how seemingly remote the possibility. Given that an established airline flew the route for many years, it is not unreasonable to think it could be flown again. However, as you said, the route today would rely on O&D. At least AA had connections to places like ORD, DFW, and Southern California (LAX, SNA, SAN, etc.) when it flew the route..



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3076 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9965 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 5):
SJC market is restricted (and its airport is too small).



I disagree. The Santa Clara Valley has about 1.5 Million people - a lot of them affluent - in its catchment area, not to mention a lot of High-Tech industry. The airport is hardly too small. Have you been there lately since they opened Terminal B? The terminal and underutilized International Arrivals area is plenty big enough for 777 or two every day.

Also, while you are correct that SFO is only maybe 10 freeway miles farther, SJC is much easier to get in and out of. Smallness is a virtue. I knew someone who lives in San Mateo and worked nearby. He'd normally fly out of SJC on business even though he was much closer to SFO, just because he liked the convenience of SJC.

At one time AA's SJC-NRT flights did very well until AA decided they were no longer committed to SJC and gave up on it.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11640 posts, RR: 61
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9962 times:

I still contend that SJC-NRT could today support a daily 767 from AA. SJC will never attract as much (or as premium) traffic as SFO, but there is definitely a market there for Asia - particularly Japan and Taiwan. By the end there, especially once AA just about completely pulled out of SJC, a 777 was way too big, but I believe a 767 would be economically supportable.

Of course, that would require AA to grow a pair, which I don't see happening anytime soon.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9885 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 7):
The Santa Clara Valley has about 1.5 Million people - a lot of them affluent - in its catchment area, not to mention a lot of High-Tech industry.

the catchment area only matters if the alternative is way too inconvenient, which is not the case for SFO. I've flown out of SJC quite a few times - the terminal feels painfully claustrophobic - and this is coming from someone whose homebase is LGA

Besides, if people love SJC so much over SFO/OAK, we should see more passengers use it. SJC is only 1/3rd the passenger volume of SFO.

SJC only has exactly 1 flight to New York, no service to DC, no service to anywhere in Canada, and no service to Mexico City or Cancun. At the rate that it's going, NRT is merely a pipe dream.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3076 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9843 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 9):
the terminal feels painfully claustrophobic

Like I said, you are probably referring to the now-demolished Terminal C. You haven't seen the new Terminal B. It's hardly claustrophic.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 9):
At the rate that it's going, NRT is merely a pipe dream.

Are you not aware that AA flew SJC-NRT for many years and it did very well, until of course AA decided to give up on SJC overall?


User currently offlineordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9802 times:

Just because AA could not make a go of it neccesarily says it cant be done. I could see this working, I know there are a lot south of SF who much rather use SJC, plenty of business from silicone valley and rich people.

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5436 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9770 times:

It seems unlikely to me that this will happen but I wish SJC luck in the effort.

Of course the fact that airport people are meeting with ANA people means nothing. I'd bet ANA people are meeting with many U.S. airport people constantly, and we know that the SJC people are always talking to any foreign flag cx who will listen.

ANA (some day) will have a large fleet of 787s and they are most definitely looking for new cities and routes on which to deploy them. For them to operate 2 stations (SJ and SF) so close together, however, doesn't seem like the best use of their resources.

I'm always happy when smaller airports land a big one so again I hope SJC (or whatever their name eventually becomes) is successful with this.

bb


User currently offlineTinosky From Canada, joined Mar 2010, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9638 times:

I'd see ANA take over YVR or YYZ before a place like SJC. These airports have a wide range of Star Alliance carriers. SJC doesn't. Maybe Cargo as carpetHead mentioned.

Tinosky~


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3076 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9631 times:

By the way, I think Norm Mineta is a bozo. I've read about some really bizarre clueless stuff he's said about Amtrak that shows he's clueless. I knew his son from college, and the son was a very nice fellow.

However, it annoys me to see my former hometown airport being named after Mineta.

I believe that AA's past SJC-NRT flight shows that route can work with the right airplane (767, A332 or 787 maybe) if an airline commits to it and markets it correctly.

Maybe the AA/JL joint venture will give it another go, preferable with AA metal so they can code-share with AS (currently AS and JL are not frequent flier partners) to add some connecting feed since AS/QX is now the second biggest carrier at SJC.


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6146 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9630 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 9):

Been in the new terminal? It's no Laguardia



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinewarden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9531 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 7):
Also, while you are correct that SFO is only maybe 10 freeway miles farther, SJC is much easier to get in and out of. Smallness is a virtue. I knew someone who lives in San Mateo and worked nearby. He'd normally fly out of SJC on business even though he was much closer to SFO, just because he liked the convenience of SJC.

What he said. I've seen many high-end business clients who were flying out of SFO out of necessity and would have MUCH preferred to fly out of SJC, except that the flights they needed weren't available. In addition, I've seen people who went out of their way to end up in SJC i.e. flying AA LHR-DFW-SJC on AA instead of going with one of the multiple non-stop LHR-SFO flights (albeit not on AA, but two of SFO's LHR flights are on a fellow OneWorld carrier).

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 9):
SJC is only 1/3rd the passenger volume of SFO.

From what I've seen with people originating or ending their trip in the Bay Area, that has more to do with a lack of available flights than a preference for SFO. Maybe the clients I'm seeing represent the minority overall, but of the clients I see, the majority prefer SJC (or OAK) when it's feasible and only go out of SFO when it's necessary..and, with the cut-backs n service to SJC/OAK (whether that's due to underperformance or a desire to consolidate operations at SFO, I'll leave for others to debate), flying out of SFO for necessity's sake is the norm now...

And, I admit, I am still bitter about AA buying QQ and almost immediately dissolving its network...although it's a moot point for me now; SJC used to be my go-to airport, but now I live so close to SFO that it would be silly for me to fly out of any other airport...



ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3076 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9415 times:

Quoting warden145 (Reply 16):
And, I admit, I am still bitter about AA buying QQ and almost immediately dissolving its network



Like how I feel about US buying PSA and immediately dissolving it.

And QQ took over SJC routes that AA got when they bought Air Cal and then gutted it. So AA offloads it's ex-Air Cal routes to QQ because it doesn't want them. Then buys QQ. Then guts the routes again because it doesn't want them.

SEA-SJC went from OC, AA, QQ, AA, discontinued.

Then AA tried to buy AS for its west coast routes (that AA twice before decided they didn't really want). The the definition of incompetence - when you keep doing the same unsuccessful thing over and over and expecting different results. AA would have had SEA-SJC for a third time, for example. Expect any different outcome?


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3076 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9330 times:

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/p...emand-to-bring-nippon-airways.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC079MlwCPg


User currently offlineryu2 From Taiwan, joined Aug 2002, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9200 times:

Why NRT and not HND? If you make it convenient on one end, you should make it convenient on the other too.

User currently offlinetomassjc From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 871 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8605 times:
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Quoting ryu2 (Reply 19):
Why NRT and not HND? If you make it convenient on one end, you should make it convenient on the other too.

NRT offers far more connectivity than HND. The Silicon Valley Asian community would especially love a link to SGN and MNL from SJC.



When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
User currently offlineSFO2SVO From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 399 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8561 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 7):
Also, while you are correct that SFO is only maybe 10 freeway miles farther, SJC is much easier to get in and out of. Smallness is a virtue.

Well, it is. Has a flip side too. I will feel more comfortable flying long haul out of SFO - because if something goes wrong with, for example, KL SFO-AMS, I can be re-accommodated on AF or even UA via LHR or FRA (both happened to me actually)

I wish SJC all the luck - and actually won't mind supporting it - but why SFO-SEA-SFO is reliably $10-20 cheaper then SJC-SEA-SJC???



318-19-20-21 332 343 717 727 737-234578 743-4 752 763 772 D9/10 M11/8x/90 F70 RJ85 ATR72 SF340 E120 TU34/54 IL18/62/86/9
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3076 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8417 times:

Quoting SFO2SVO (Reply 21):
I will feel more comfortable flying long haul out of SFO - because if something goes wrong with, for example, KL SFO-AMS, I can be re-accommodated on AF or even UA via LHR or FRA (both happened to me actually)



I understand your point, but you could just as easily be re-accommodated out of SJC in your scenario:

SJC-PDX-AMS
SJC-SEA-AMS
SJC-MSP-AMS
SJC-LAX-AMS
SJC-SLC-CDG-AMS

And so on.......

Quoting SFO2SVO (Reply 21):
but why SFO-SEA-SFO is reliably $10-20 cheaper then SJC-SEA-SJC???



Probably because that proves SJC has a lot of demand and yield and can command those fares. I fly SEA-SJC at least twice a year to visit the family and didn't notice those fares to be high, but your point demonstrates that SJC can command a high yield.


User currently offlineSFOA380 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7953 times:

ANA could easily make a go of this. This area is the most affluent metro in the USA and O&D certainly exists. There are tons of UA elite flyers here who would populate any SJC Star Alliance carrier. There is room for both SFO and SJC ala NYC with EWR and JFK on an obvioulsy smaller scale. AA and US both had huge missteps in their aquisitions of PSA and AirCal/QQ and opened the door for WN in the west. The new terminal at SJC is first class and it's only a matter of time until things improve there. They will never be SFO, but they don't need to be either--it's a great niche airport.

User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3076 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7875 times:

Quoting SFOA380 (Reply 23):
AA and US both had huge missteps in their acquisitions of PSA and AirCal/QQ and opened the door for WN in the west.



Yeah, and to some degree also opened the door for AS.

Don't forget who taught WN their successful business model - PSA. PSA invented the LCC business model before WN was even a glean in anyone's eye.

Having said that, I agree that SJC-NRT can work again, just like it used to before AA gave up on SJC. I'd rather see someone aligned with AS instead of a *A carrier though.

[Edited 2011-03-01 15:12:27]

25 touslesciels : Changing the name to, or adding Silicon Valley (by all means drop the Mineta, as hard as that might be to do) to the airport in San Jose is a fantasti
26 DocLightning : There are a small number of UA connections there, but I agree it would be mostly point-to-point traffic. However, SJC is a good hour south of SFO in
27 PITrules : If the rush hour drive is an hour, well that's an hour earlier pick up time needed in Asia in order to meet the same deadline. In fact, FedEx ran MD-
28 mham001 : I agree, it is so much easier in and out. They should drop all that Mineta fluff, naming an airport after a guy who's not dead yet, and then insist o
29 warden145 : According to a San Jose city council member, that's a non-starter. With all due respect to Norm Mineta, IMHO they should drop his name entirely, or a
30 BoeingGuy : Not true. HA has a daily 763 SJC-HNL.
31 mogandoCI : that was back when oil was nearly free, dot com boom was going crazy, Nasdaq at 5000, and AA wanted to create a competitor hub to UA's SFO fortress,
32 warden145 : Forgot about that one...I stand corrected. Thanks!
33 BoeingGuy : I've only known of six ever scheduled passenger wide-body flights into SJC and three of them lasted for a very short time. HA 763 AA 777 SJC-NRT (pre
34 SJC4Me : I hate the name of the airport as it currently is. I don't think anyone outside of city hall (or wherever those types of things take place) thought th
35 mikesairways : BOS-SJC was an MD11 for a while as the routing was BOS-SJC-NRT.
36 B595 : A little off-topic, but I can't believe the new SJC Terminal B doesn't have a moving walkway. That was one hell of a long walk from Gate 17 at the far
37 DocLightning : It's very true. I love VX, but if I'm going to SoCal, I'm flying out of OAK. Why? Because I don't need a 3hr fog delay on a 1 hour flight.
38 warden145 : Only 3? About a year ago, a friend of mine flew up to SFO from LGB on a B6 E190...flight was supposed to land at SFO at 0825. After a sudden onset of
39 BlueJuice : As a frequent flying in and out of SJC, I would love to see more service. However, the city seems to have a love/hate relationship with the airport. H
40 Post contains images DocLightning : 3 is average, meaning half shorter, half longer. There's nothing quite as uplifting and joyous as being 13 hours into a 14 hour flight from SYD to SF
41 whosee : It was supposed to have them but when the original $4.5 billion plan was trimmed to $1.3 billion the people mover was one of the many items cut.
42 tomassjc : Yet they didn't trim the freaky waving hands "Artwork" on the parking lot acorss from Term B. Reminds me of hands coming out of a grave on "Night of
43 as739x : Thats not really a fair comment. Half of those SJC widebody routes were trimmed after 9/11. The whole industry was rattled by that. We have no idea a
44 BoeingGuy : Even AS and other airlines said they'd have to take a weight penalty when taking off on the 12s if the city allowed that higher building that had bee
45 Post contains images warden145 : You know, I was talking with another driver who said the exact same thing about the waving hands I understand the desire for something to look decent
46 tomassjc : Like a moving sidewalk in Terminal B!! Or keeping the beautiful piece of early California art that hung for years in the old Terminal C. Tomas SJC
47 BoeingGuy : I thought they did decide to preserve it after all.
48 BlueJuice : IIRC, the 360 Residences condominiums lost two floors going from 25 to 23 stories tall. It's the building across the street from the Marriott Hotel.
49 BoeingGuy : So does the building cause weight restrictions when taking off on the 12s, or did the reduction in floors resolve that potential problem?
50 tomassjc : Wow, you're right... I just found a CBS News article stating they hung it near gate 15 in Terminal A last Tuesday. Guess I should wander next door mo
51 N1120A : They already have a one-stop on UA via HKG to SGN and a sometimes non-stop on PR to MNL from SFO. $10 to $20 isn't going to get people to switch airp
52 tomassjc : Exactly...from SFO. Not everybody loves to make the 45 mile trek to SFO, myself included. There are 90,000 Vietnamese in San Jose alone. (San Jose ha
53 Carfield : ANA can also tap into the Vietnamese SE Asian traffic if it can schedule the flight to allow a short and seamless to Ho Chi Minh City or Hanoi! Carfie
54 mnik101 : Every drove up or down 101 between SF and SJ? Trust me, If you live in the South Bay SJC is far more convenient than SFO. The market is there for SJC
55 Post contains images tomassjc :
56 legacyins : [quote=Carfield,reply=53]ANA can also tap into the Vietnamese SE Asian traffic if it can schedule the flight to allow a short and seamless to Ho Chi M
57 BoeingGuy : People keep forgetting that SJC-NRT was a successful route for many years until AA gave up on the SJC market. I flew it several times and it was alwa
58 as739x : For how much I completely agree with you on the VN population in the South Bay, Legacy is spot on. As someone married to a Vietnamese, it's VFR traff
59 BoeingGuy : I agree with everything you said, but I believe it was the pre-MD-11 days when they had to do the occasional stop over in OAK. That was with the DC-1
60 Tomassjc : Yeah, I was on BR SFO-TPE in January and it seemed most of the flight was going on to SGN. We were going on to MNL with about a dozen others. But I t
61 n53614 : According to the great Ben Wang, that OAK stopover happened a grand total of once. For some reason, everyone here (me included until my knowledge was
62 BoeingGuy : It hasn't been a ghost town when I've been there, but yeah it's not like back when AA had something like 77 mainline flights a day there. To put it i
63 SJC4Me : Why do you sound so shocked? He was mayor of San Jose before I was born and I doubt most people (my age or otherwise) know or care who the Secretary
64 as739x : It actually was the MD11. American and Douglas were at ends with each other when MD promised the MD11 could do SJC-NRT non-stop. Then as the service
65 N1120A : Before a 17 hour + transit flight, I don't think that "trek" is a huge deal. Especially given all the better options out of SFO. New Orleans has a hu
66 Post contains links aal151heavy : AA's SJC-NRT service started life with the DC-10-30 before moving on to the MD-11. OAK fuel stop happened twice with the DC-10. See replies 13 and 14
67 psa188 : it bugs me any time a public facility is named after somebody who has not died yet. You have former LA mayor Tom Bradley to thank for this unfortunat
68 psa188 : SJC airport has staff who are dedicated to bringing in long haul international flights back to SJC. There's the chicken and egg problem that David Vo
69 psa188 : Yes it was. See the December 2010 issue of Airliners magazine.
70 mogandoCI : and that was back when Japan (and NRT) was still relevant the 777 (and soon 787) allowed the NRT TPAC hub to be completed busted, so finally we have a
71 goldenstate : I'm very curious to know how you arrived at the conclusion that the world's third largest economy is no longer relevant. The balance of economic powe
72 as739x : Thanks, for those of us who don't get the magazine I guess we missed the article. I'll try and find a copy. You learn something new everyday. But I d
73 BoeingGuy : That also might have been before SJC lengthened the runways. The extended the south end into a former general aviation hanger area, which also requir
74 as739x : Yeah, I had that in reply 64. It was before they were extended.
75 Post contains images Tomassjc : Yes they do have large Vietnamese communities. Don't plan on seeing them from SJC either...but it would be nice to have a connection through NRT. Yes
76 Alias1024 : Just some thoughts about the potential catchment area for SJC. Many people in California's central valley make the drive to SFO when they are going to
77 Tomassjc : You can also add the Central Coast to the mix. San Luis Obispo especially
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