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Emirates Sued For Not Saving Dying Passenger  
User currently offlineindcwby From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 135 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 22920 times:

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news...id-nothing-to-save-dying-passenger

Are airlines liable for passengers in such situations, especially on international flights? If the investigations shows that the Emirates didn't do anything to assist, (providing CPR, defibrillator, etc.) I'm sure the goal was to get the plane down as soon as possible. But if the flight attendants are trained to perform CPR, why didn't they?

91 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinerichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 723 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22794 times:

I don't know who's right or wrong in this or if there was anything that could be done, however it must be dreadful to watch your mother dying and feel that no one is helping her. Poor guy

User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22692 times:

They should have done CPR and used a defibrillator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_external_defibrillator

Does anybody know if EK have defibrillator's on their planes?



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineFly2yyz From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1045 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22625 times:

I'm pretty sure they do.. its EK after all! I'm very surprised that steps werent taken.. but this is a Fox news network...

Hmm maybe they were already in descent?


User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5245 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22487 times:

The First Aid for an unconscious casualty is

D - Danger: Clear the arear of danger and protect yourself (gloves etc)
R - Response: Shout can you hear me...
A - Airways: Open the airways
B - Check for breatjing if no breathing then move to compressions (CPR)

With First Aid you DONT give CPR to a breathing casualty. So if breathing they would have administered oxygen (which is what they did).

Quote:

Before being pronounced dead on arrival at a nearby hospital, family members said paramedics performed CPR on Carol. They question why the flight crew didn't do that or use a defibrillator.

It is unclear when she died.... sounds as if it was after the plane landed, but before paramedics arrived. That is the point CPR should have been started...so without ALL the timings it is hard to say the crew did not do what they are instructed and trained to do.... As giving oxygen for an unconscious, but breathing casualty is the right thing to do.

And the other gripes from the family about not being sent flowers etc - I highly doubt airlines do send flowers if someone has bad health and gets ill on the flight. If that pax was not dead leaving the aircraft the crew/airline would never know the outcome.

[Edited 2011-03-04 09:17:05]

User currently offlineKGRB From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 716 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 22145 times:

You gotta love the EK apologists. Blame the messenger (a FOX *affiliate,* not FOX News Channel) instead of blaming the airline that's clearly at fault.

Imagine if this were DL, UA or God forbid, AA (A.net's whipping boy)...  



Δ D E L T A: Keep Climbing
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3651 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 21679 times:

I can see both sides of this. EK probably should have done more to try and save the women, but on the same token, I think the deceased's family was expecting a bit much. As someone was quoted in that article....it's a plane, not a flying hospital.


PHX based
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7195 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 21676 times:

Quoting indcwby (Thread starter):
I'm sure the goal was to get the plane down as soon as possible. But if the flight attendants are trained to perform CPR, why didn't they?

I'm sorry, but flight attendants making $30,000/yr (at best) are not doctors. The thought of them being sued (or the airline) for not saving the passenger's life is laughable. When I first read the headline, I thought that they had refused an expensive diversion and that had caused the death. Then they'd maybe have a lawsuit.

If, in fact, they let all the other passengers exit before allowing the paramedics access to the plane then that might possibly be negligent, but we don't know enough to make that decision. It may be that the paramedics weren't there when the plane arrived at the gate, so they weren't actually delayed. Who knows, but what I do know is that there is no expectation that an airline is going to be able to save your life on an airplane. Similarly, if you collapse at work, your family shouldn't be able to sue your company because nobody discovered you in the copy room for an hour. Not everything is a lawsuit.

Lawsuits should be for things like stabbing people with a fork (accidentally or on purpose), not for watching and not assisting as somebody else was stabbed with a fork. Are we going to sue the passengers/crew on the 9/11 planes for not stopping the terrorists?


User currently offlineN757KW From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 435 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 21424 times:

OK, this event happened in April of last year. So, what did Ms. Wilson die of? Heart Attack, stroke, some other event? Intersting that no one in the article mentions this little tid bit of information. It might have been nice if someone from Emirates would have followed up. Also, I am intersted to know why the family thinks a crew member should talk to them rather than ground staff. As long as someone from the airline made contact after flight arrival, I think that is just fine. I would think the MOD or station manager would be appropriate.

N757KW



"What we've got here, is failure to communicate." from Cool Hand Luke
User currently offlineTimRees From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2001, 354 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 21367 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 4):
With First Aid you DONT give CPR to a breathing casualty. So if breathing they would have administered oxygen (which is what they did).

As anstar rightly says, the article states she was gasping for air when found in the washroom. So the correct treatment was oxygen as CPR would be of no use to someone who was obviously breathing with cardiac output - so no need for a defibrillator to be used either.

I suspect she was suffering an acute coronary event after a very long flight and subsequently had a cardiac arrest and as stated, was pronounced dead on arrival in hospital after a failed CPR attempt. CPR has a low success rate at the best of times, probably around 10% of attempts are successful.

As a GP I've helped several times on aircraft when passengers have been in distress. It doesn't mention that Emirates crew asked if there were any doctors on board in this article. However, we aren't told how close to landing this event occured; seems near the end of the flight perhaps when the passenger noted his mother hadn't returned to her seat as they were securing the cabin for landing. Perhaps calling for a doctor at that point might have delayed the landing and getting her to the paramedics. I know US doctors are sometimes reluctant to come forward in these circumstances as they are worried about the chance of being sued, but our UK indemnity cover is valid ins such circumstances when a good samaritan act by a medic is always thought to be preferable to taking no action at all. I believe, for French doctors finding themselves in such a situation, they are legally obliged to offer to help.

When anyone dies suddenly and in such unusual circumstances it is very stressful for the family and often the family will want to apportion blame. However, although we don't have all the facts, in my opinion it would seem that EK took an appropriate course of action in the circumstances.


User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1596 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 21246 times:

Quoting KGRB (Reply 6):
You gotta love the EK apologists. Blame the messenger (a FOX *affiliate,* not FOX News Channel) instead of blaming the airline that's clearly at fault.

It's not so clear to me. The airline's primary responsibility in a medical emergency is to get the plane on the ground as soon as possible, in this case they were already preparing to land when the passenger was discovered to be having medical issues so that can't even come into play. Furthermore, she did not die on the plane, the paramedics performed CPR on the passenger after they landed. The airline is under no obligation to perform CPR or administer a defibrillator, they certainly aren't required to check on the passenger's health at the hospital or send flowers. The claim that other passengers were permitted to deplane before paramedics were allowed to get to her is the only real possible misstep I see from Emirates, but that could very well have more to do with airport procedures and the fact this was an international flight arriving in a sterile area of the airport (paramedics probably were not available immediately upon landing otherwise there is no excuse that paramedics weren't allowed on immediately). However, even with that the passenger was alive when she deplaned so it will be hard for them to win any lawsuit against Emirates (unless they can show that Emirates caused her illness). The other question I have is what exactly did here son do? Did he ask for a doctors' assistance or attempt to perform CPR himself?


User currently offlineflaps30 From United States of America, joined May 2009, 287 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 20530 times:

Quoting TimRees (Reply 15):
I suspect she was suffering an acute coronary event after a very long flight and subsequently had a cardiac arrest

Could have been a pulmonary embolism. They cause blood clots to the lungs which may have explained why she was having trouble breathing. Unfortunately, these events are becoming all too common on long haul and ultra long haul flights when people tend to be stationary in their seats for many hours at a time. Doctors recommend getting up every couple of hours to stretch the legs and get the blood flowing. This happened to Serena Williams just the other day after a long flight according to the news.



every day is a good day to fly
User currently offlinem11stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 20429 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 12):
Are we going to sue the passengers/crew on the 9/11 planes for not stopping the terrorists?

It was unreasonable to expect the passengers and F/As on 9/11 to stop the terrorists... It is reasonable to expect F/As, who are given First Aid, CPR, and AED training to do something to help a passenger who is obviously in distress. There have been many cases in which F/As have helped and saved the life of a passenger who was suffering a medical emergency. It sounds like the EK F/As in this case did next to nothing. They didn't even page for a nurse, EMT, or doctor...



My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlinen9801f From Samoa, joined Apr 2004, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 20028 times:

If the news story is accurate, then this is unconscionable.

I've personally seen airlines do vastly better.

Quoting KGRB (Reply 6):
Imagine if this were DL, UA or God forbid, AA

Twice I saw medical emergencies on AA domestic flights. Both were handled extremely professionally. And both pax lived.

The flight attendants told pax to stay in their seats, then calmly and quickly laid the pax out in the aisle. In one case, the external defibrillator was used.

The pilot explained that we'd do an expedited descent and landing. We immediately got to a gate. All pax were instructed to remain seated. Paramedics quickly removed the ailing passenger.

THAT is how to handle this sort of thing. Good procedures in place and followed. Good training. Proper equipment.

Handling of both incidents was identical, and I give AA an A+ for each.

So far as other carriers go, recently there was the story of an LH MUC-LHR flight that landed in CGN when a pax had a heart attack. 7 minutes from cruise to ambulance! Defibrillator used. Pax lived. Sounds like LH also gets an A+ (but I'm not surprised!)

Hopefully the news story is inaccurate or incomplete. Because if it's correct, the situation sounds unforgivable to me...


User currently offlinethrufru From Marshall Islands, joined Feb 2009, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 19763 times:

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 17):
The claim that other passengers were permitted to deplane before paramedics were allowed to get to her is the only real possible misstep I see from Emirates, but that could very well have more to do with airport procedures and the fact this was an international flight arriving in a sterile area of the airport (paramedics probably were not available immediately upon landing otherwise there is no excuse that paramedics weren't allowed on immediately)

Most major international airports in the US have policies and procedures set up to deal with a medical emergency on an inbound flight. In theory, the individuals being "contaminated" would be the EMT's. ICE can deal with this issue outside of the emergency easily. This in no way should interfere with the response time, and getting the medical personnel onto the aircraft.

Quoting n9801f (Reply 20):
If the news story is accurate, then this is unconscionable.

Pretty standard policies and reactions in the US. We even practice handling medical emergencies in recurrent and PC's.


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6914 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 19650 times:

I am not in favor of lawsuits; but the threat of them has resulted in significant increases in safety in many areas. I do think that if the flight attendants did in fact let the passengers deplane before they let the paramedics get to the woman that is inexcusable, and is certainly grounds for a lawsuit. Unfortunately sometimes it takes losing a lawsuit before some organizations change the way they do things. It certainly sounds like AA and LH would have handled this situation much differently (and better.)


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1596 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 19350 times:

Quoting thrufru (Reply 21):
Most major international airports in the US have policies and procedures set up to deal with a medical emergency on an inbound flight.

And if this is the case, then it would have been the airport procedures that allowed other passengers to deplane before the paramedics were allowed to board. As I said, if Emirates did in fact delay the paramedics that would seem to me to be their only misstep in this, but I find it hard to believe that they would have been the ones to make that decision. Since an emergency was clearly called in, then the airport's emergency response procedures (since you say they have them) should have kicked in and they would have coordinated the paramedic response not Emirates.

We have to remember the timing. In most medical emergencies, the paramedics and airport have more lead time to coordinate the response as it takes a significant amount of time for an airplane to divert. In this case, the plane was already on approach and therefore the plane was on the ground sooner and therefore provided less time for those on the ground to react. I don't know that this played any part in what happened, but that is what jumped out to me when reading the story. In fact, before I read the story I assumed Emirates was going to be accused of continuing on to their destination instead of diverting to the nearest possible airport - but that definitely wasn't the case here they were able to land sooner than any diversion if they had still been at cruise altitude.


User currently offlinecanadianpylon From Canada, joined May 2003, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 18806 times:

Quoting TimRees (Reply 15):
As anstar rightly says, the article states she was gasping for air when found in the washroom. So the correct treatment was oxygen as CPR would be of no use to someone who was obviously breathing with cardiac output - so no need for a defibrillator to be used either.

You are suppose to reasses the injured to see if their condition changes. For someone who is incoherent and having troubling breathing, that should happen frequently with constant supervision.

Quoting TimRees (Reply 15):

I suspect she was suffering an acute coronary event after a very long flight and subsequently had a cardiac arrest and as stated, was pronounced dead on arrival in hospital after a failed CPR attempt. CPR has a low success rate at the best of times, probably around 10% of attempts are successful.

According to American Heart Association, early CPR and defibrillation within 3-5 minutes can have success rates 50-74%, while non-CPR, late AED defibrillation attempted resuciscation only has a 1-2% success rate.

Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation (CPR) Statistics

Interestingly, the website cites Las Vegas security guards, and Airport Security Police helping to achieve higher success rates because of training.

Needless to say, leaving the injured, who is having a cardiac event, unattended until the plane is disembarked before allowing praramedics to see them is a guarantee that the injured will not survive.

Of note in the article, it said that '...the FAA does require all flight attendants to be trained in CPR and automatic external defibrillators are required on all passenger planes.' It doesn't say that all flight attendants are required to have training in AEDs. This is an important distinction, as they are separate training. One can be trained in CPR, but not in AEDs. I wonder if this was the case...



Always looking for the longest route with the most transfers.
User currently offlinekeagkid101 From Portugal, joined Mar 2010, 306 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 18644 times:

Shame on EK. The second the flight crew was aware that there was a medical issue with a passenger, they should have notified the flight deck and called for a doctor. Secondly, they should have checked the passenger's breathing, which they did, and she was. Giving oxygen was correct. They should, however, have checked her breathing for the remaining time left in the flight. Perhaps they would have found that she was not breathing, and they could have administered CPR, which they did not.

When her heart stopped beating, they should have used the defibrillator, which they did not. They also should have diverted, regardless of the cost (a lawsuit would probably cost more than diverting).

Shame on EK.


User currently offlinem11stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 18608 times:

Quoting canadianpylon (Reply 25):
Of note in the article, it said that '...the FAA does require all flight attendants to be trained in CPR and automatic external defibrillators are required on all passenger planes.' It doesn't say that all flight attendants are required to have training in AEDs. This is an important distinction, as they are separate training. One can be trained in CPR, but not in AEDs. I wonder if this was the case...

AEDs are VERY, VERY simple to use and I can't imagine that the F/As weren't trained on how to use them...



My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlinen9801f From Samoa, joined Apr 2004, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 18465 times:

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 23):
And if this is the case, then it would have been the airport procedures that allowed other passengers to deplane before the paramedics were allowed to board.

Really? On AA, the flight attendants advised us well before landing that we would need to remain still until the ill passenger was removed by paramedics...

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 23):
As I said, if Emirates did in fact delay the paramedics that would seem to me to be their only misstep in this

I disagree. If the news story is accurate, then EK sounds guilty of grievous errors of omission - they didn't do things that might have helped - for instance they should have done the things that AA or LH routinely and deftly do in these circumstances.

In other words, it was EK's supposed inaction (rather than their actions) that sound so damning.


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3005 posts, RR: 28
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 18318 times:

Facts are sometimes useful:

Quoting keagkid101 (Reply 26):
They should, however, have checked her breathing for the remaining time left in the flight

Story doesn't say they didn't. How do you know they didn't?

Quoting keagkid101 (Reply 26):
Perhaps they would have found that she was not breathing, and they could have administered CPR, which they did not.

Perhaps. And perhaps she was still breathing.

Quoting keagkid101 (Reply 26):
When her heart stopped beating, they should have used the defibrillator, which they did not.

No information on when her heart stopped beating.

Quoting keagkid101 (Reply 26):
They also should have diverted, regardless of the cost

They were already landing.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlinekeagkid101 From Portugal, joined Mar 2010, 306 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 18053 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 29):
Story doesn't say they didn't. How do you know they didn't?

Because if they did check, then they would have administered CPR--they did not.

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 29):
No information on when her heart stopped beating.

Exactly, but if it did before they landed, they should have used the defibrillator

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 29):
They were already landing.

Okay, then they should have declared a medical emergency (I checked another source, and it said that they did not)


User currently offlinepetrhsr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 17901 times:

"She was incoherent," Shawn said. "She was gasping for air, her eyes were rolling everywhere."

You don't put an AED on a conscious person. The FA's remembered their training.


"... Absolutely nothing other than give her some oxygen and sit her in a wheelchair. That's not enough."

Yes, all airlines should have an Intensive Care physician, 3 specialist RNs, and fully-equipped ICU and OR on each flight.


"They didn't send a representative to talk to me they sent a ticket agent from one of the terminals to come and talk to me."

That would be the airline's representative, then. Sorry they couldn't teleport the CEO over for you.


"As Medaire points out, you are boarding a plane, not a flying hospital."

And there you have it.

 


User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1596 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 17686 times:

Quoting n9801f (Reply 28):
Really? On AA, the flight attendants advised us well before landing that we would need to remain still until the ill passenger was removed by paramedics...

I don't know what the situation was, but as someone else said the airport has procedures for medical emergencies. If paramedics were at the gate when the plane arrived I do not believe the airport or the airline would have made them wait while other passengers deplane. Like I said it is important to remember this plane was already landing when the emergency occured, the response time would have been greatly reduced. I am well aware of other airlines telling passengers before landing that they would need to wait until an ill passenger was removed by parademics, but if there are no paramedics there then there is no reason to hold other passengers. I don't know if the paramedics were there or not, but I noticed in the story they didn't say they made the paramedics wait while other passengers deplaned they simply said other passengers deplaned before paramedics boarded. Even if the airline was insensitive enough to allow other passengers to deplane while an ill passenger waited, I highly doubt the airport or the paramedics would just sit there and allow it to happen. Remember the same people accusing EJK of wrongdoing suggest they were obligated to visit the passenger at the hospital to check on her condition and or send her flowers.

Quoting n9801f (Reply 28):
then EK sounds guilty of grievous errors of omission -

EK is an airline not a hospital. They are not obligated to provide comprehensive medical treatment, they are suppose to make sure the passenger is stable and get the plane on the ground asap so that medical professionals can treat the passenger, it seems to me they did way more right in this situation than wrong. If it is determined that EK prevented paramedics from getting to the passenger in order to let other passengers deplane then shame on them, but I highly doubt that was the situation it doesn't even seem reasonable.


25 n9801f : Yes, I know you're kidding. But in all seriousness, most carriers have a phone link to an on-ground medical advisory service, enabling flight attenda
26 n9801f : Your point that we don't know the real situation first-hand is well taken. But so far as the question of flight crew responsibility vs. airport - the
27 LAXtoATL : I would assume the same in this situation. Like I said, I am just guessing but I think the fact that the plane was already landing could have created
28 Post contains images U2380 : What a great excuse for a EK bashing session. I forgot that we were all present at the moment of this incident, and thus can make an accurate and unbi
29 kl911 : So whats the story again? Someone died on a plane, but that happens every day. Nothing new there. What is new is that immediately people start sueing
30 jamake1 : I am sorry, but had this been a US carrier, the flight crew would've responded immediately by calling for a doctor onboard and grabbing the AED, follo
31 kl911 : Not during descent.... never. This person died between landing and paramedics showing up.
32 n9801f : No, not unsafe. Clearly BA is one of the safest airlines in the world. EK has a good (though shorter) record, too. But culturally, some environments
33 jamake1 : Uh, YES during descent. Sterile cockpit does not apply in the event of an emergency. If a passenger is in the midst of cardiac arrest, it's an emergen
34 goblin211 : How awful! EK really isn't at fault though simply b/c nothing could be done from what i can see. if someone is dying u can try CPR but there aren't an
35 indolikaa : That is absolutely priceless! LMAO.
36 Giancavia : CLEARLY? I'm glad we have someone who was on the scene with such in depth knowledge of the situation to place 100% Blame on Emirates. Emirates are no
37 jamake1 : Because he likely wasn't trained in First Aid procedures the way Emirates cabin crew are trained to respond to medical emergencies.[Edited 2011-03-04
38 rcair1 : AED's do not start stopped hearts - you've watched too many movies. They re-establish a rhythm in a heart that is in fibrillation. There are many cor
39 jetfuel : So I take it nobody knows if they do?
40 m11stephen : I know what AEDs do. I may not be a doctor, nurse, or EMT but I am certified in CPR and the use of AEDs. The issue here is that the flight attendants
41 outoftheice : Reading through this topic finally prompted me to take the plunge and sign up for an airliners.net membership. One thing that has not yet been mention
42 m11stephen : I'm almost positive they do. Every airplane in the US that has an F/A onboard, even the Saab 340 or E120, has an AED onboard so I can't imagine a wid
43 Post contains links Quokka : According to "Health-on-board_tcm409-472272.doc" available from www.emiratesgroup.com
44 Mudboy : That depends on the underlying cause for the cardiac arrest. AEDs are only good for pulseless Ventricular Tachycardia or Fib caused by dysrhythmias f
45 MarkHKG : Emirates does indeed have a significant amount of medical equipment on board their aircraft. Some of their long haul aircraft - such as the A380, A340
46 jetfuel : 1. If the equipment is on board and there's an obviously seriously ill patient where was the "senior cabin crew are trained in its use"? 2. Why was an
47 Quokka : The article clearly states that the incident occurred as the aircraft was in preparing to land. No diversion was necessary. As to the other questions
48 debonair : Hi, I would like to add some more informations Right! But this is "old" school! The new way is D-DANGER R-RESPONSE S-SEND someone for getting help, to
49 nclmedic : As a medical doctor I've been asked to assist a few times with medical emergencies on flights. I may have misread the article, but it didn't seem to s
50 GALLEYSTEW : CHECK the patient, CALL for help/AED/medical assistance/cockpit and purser, CARE for the patient!! I have landed in the aisle performing CPR. Totally
51 Mudboy : And what happens when you get a head injury during the landing, now there are 2 Pts?
52 LAXtoATL : This crossed my mind as well. No mention of them calling for or not calling for any doctors on board. But another question just crossed my mind, give
53 TimRees : I suppose using the defib is a way to deterimine the heart rhythm and it woudn't shock if there was a normal rhythm. I hope you're not saying you wou
54 Quokka : I do not wish to apportion blame or exonerate anyone in absence of facts, however there are so many questions that arise out of the article linked to
55 LAXtoATL : If the lawsuit was recently filed, then EK's legal response would simply be to deny the allegations if they plan to defend against the lawsuit, they
56 braynfeeble : I'm sorry this happened to the lady who passed away. It appears that the aircraft was on approach, and therefore the cabin had to be secured. You don'
57 vfw614 : You should learn the details of that case and look at its background to better understand the ruling. Headline-grabbing third-hand sources are not go
58 n9801f : Well said. And given that some carriers do have such good procedures as the ones you mention, I also see no excuse why a supposedly 'modern' airline
59 IndyWA : We are trained to perform CPR on the patient until we physically can not continue or you are in personal danger. We do NOT strap in for landing. I al
60 LAXtoATL : I was hoping somebody would answer this question, but since no one has responded to it yet I am asking again...
61 ltbewr : We basically only know one side of the story. Of course, EK will not comment nor could they give the level of attention the son of the woman believe h
62 LAXtoATL : This flight was landing at IAH.
63 tommytoyz : "The lawsuit claims the flight attendants even allowed all the other passengers to disembark before paramedics could get to Carol." If this is indeed
64 jetfuel : This in itself clearly indicates they had no idea she was seriously ill
65 N1120A : Yes. There is well established authority on this. Olympic Airways v. Husain They operate ETOPS flights. They are mandated to. They are obligated to p
66 jetfuel : Thank you. I hope they get BIG $$$$. Not to feed the legal snouts or because the plaintiff deserves it BUT to ensure that each and every other airlin
67 ltbewr : Oops, my bad...Still even IAH is a farly busy air traffic area needing considerable attention by any airline pilot.
68 N1120A : That is actually a major good point of our oft-maligned, always misunderstood civil system. It acts as a very effective form of regulation.
69 jetfuel : According to the article the incident was at 30000 ft. Air Traffic is NO excuse
70 LAXtoATL : It did not happen at 30000 ft. The aircraft was already in decent and preparing for landing.
71 MD11Engineer : So that is your verdict based on one news article, which solely presents the plaintiff´s side? Why do we need judges or juries? Jan
72 Prinair : They would probably do whatever needed to save their own lives. You cannot expect loyalty at an airline whose cabin crew are contracted from many nat
73 KiwiRob : So you want to see airfares increase?
74 m11stephen : How would airfares increase? Most F/As (At least at US carriers) are capable of responding to a medical emergency and providing adequate first aid...
75 Eagleboy : Correct. Would the airline even know which hospital the pax was taken to? The AED cannot be used on approach, if they were within 20 minutes of landi
76 Post contains links Quokka : So the oxygen miraculously appeared from nowhere? The passenger was placed in a seat equally miraculously? Even the paramedics just happened by sheer
77 Post contains images sq_ek_freak : All EK aircraft do. We do as well. Correct. Aircraft in question was a 77L so it was equipped. And broadly assume 12,000 cabin crew are incompetent i
78 Prinair : As far as the "bimbos" - those are your words, not mine. I have worked as a flight attendant before and I do not belive that all are "bimbos". As far
79 GALLEYSTEW : [Edited 2011-03-09 17:58:40]
80 GALLEYSTEW : January 2002, after 9/11. I had a passenger who tried to kill himself right before landing. The most polite passenger thru the entire flight. . He wen
81 GALLEYSTEW : BTW AN AED can be used to monitor heart rhythm ( I have had DR's request it) and , YES, IT CAN BE USED ON APPROACH. It will not allow a shock unless a
82 Mudboy : No, it cannot be used as a heart monitor, and I had to explain this to 2 MDs when I was asked to assist on a medical emergency, as it has no oscillos
83 Mudboy : My question is less than 6 months after 9/11, how was he able to get a knife or razor on board?
84 Post contains links MarkHKG : The AED I see perhaps most commonly aboard aircrafts is the Philips Heartstart FR2. It does have an EKG screen option for a Leads II view (and even a
85 Post contains images Mudboy : That is awesome, the one I saw when I assisted, did not have this option, though it was a few years back, and I cannot tell you what brand AED it was
86 Post contains images sankaps : Well said, I completely agree.
87 Quokka : Your comment takes it as read that the majority of staff are not dedicated and therefore can not be relied on in an emergency - hence your grudging a
88 hamad : All Emirates Aircrafts has at least one on every aircraft to be used in a medical condition when a casualty collapses and not breathing at all
89 Post contains images sankaps : Indeed, along with the fact that your career prospects and future contract extensions depend on your performance and not just on your position on a u
90 Prinair : I will stick by my opinion, Let's hope that is the case should you ever, God forbid, need them to assist in a medical emergency.
91 Post contains images Maverick623 : ALL airports, international or not, have procedures in place. It's part of their ARFF certification. Furthermore, EMTs have full SIDA access and do n
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