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DL Announces Daily Service From ATW-MEM  
User currently offlinekatwspotter From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 210 posts, RR: 1
Posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6660 times:

Delta announced service today from ATW - MEM nonstop daily seasonal service starting June 9th. The route will be operated by Pinnacle using a CRJ. Just got back from the press conference at the airport. If the route performs strong enough, this route would be extended beyond seasonal status. I know that does not seem like a big deal, but for a smaller market that is ever growing, I believe it was worth posting. Formerly working under the Northwest Airlink banner, we begged for this flight but now it seems Delta has answered our called and I am one person for sure that is excited to start working this flight in ATW. Thanks Delta!

DL4217 MEM-ATW DEPARTS 2:30P ARRIVES 4:15P
DL4217 ATW-MEM DEPARTS 4:45P ARRIVES 6:37P


A/C I have worked in ATW - SF340 E145 CRJ2/7/9 DC93/4/5 A319/20 MD83 B738 B752/3 B763/4 A333
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3129 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6624 times:

ATW already has service to MSP DTW and ATL, I wonder what MEM will provide, I doubt theres anykind of O&D on the route.

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3403 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6613 times:

Any new service in a place like ATW is worth noting. My only "surprise" is that ATW will have MEM service and GRB won't (or at least doesn't now)...


"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 2007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6602 times:

I hope this means reports of MEM's death as a hub (so to speak) are very premature. I really think while it's smaller than some of the others it still could be an asset to the DL network

User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3847 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6540 times:

It's great to see a new MEM route, and to a small market like ATW.

User currently offlineFlyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1999 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6135 times:

Quoting LV (Reply 3):
I hope this means reports of MEM's death as a hub (so to speak) are very premature.

True, but I wouldn't exactly call this addition a resounding affirmation of a commitment either.


User currently offlinecidflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2362 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6006 times:

Why cant other markets like CID, PIA, GRB, FSD, etc get some souther hub service on DL. Most, if not all of these cities, had ATL service at one time. I would like to see DL connect more of the dots with cities like this to either MEM or ATL. Getting to smaller cities in the southeast usually requires a double connection on Delta. Good for ATW though. A little surprised though that this doesnt have the standard 1x daily MEM schedule of an ealry morning flight to MEM and late evening return from MEM.

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7767 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5852 times:

Quoting cidflyer (Reply 6):
Why cant other markets like CID, PIA, GRB, FSD, etc get some souther hub service on DL. Most, if not all of these cities, had ATL service at one time. I would like to see DL connect more of the dots with cities like this to either MEM or ATL. Getting to smaller cities in the southeast usually requires a double connection on Delta.

Well you are in luck, in addition to MEM-ATW, DL is starting MEM-CID, MEM-LNK, and MEM-EVV this summer. MSP-EVV is also being started too.


User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1322 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5841 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 7):
MEM-EVV

NW use to always fly this route


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10645 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5825 times:

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 8):
NW use to always fly this route

And DL used to fly ORD-EVV.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineDelta787 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5764 times:

Excellent news for both MEM and ATW. This is the second destination that Delta has announced to MEM in the last two days. They are also adding new nonstop service to Lincoln, Nebraska in June evidently.


Fly Delta!
User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 2007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5709 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 7):
MEM-EVV this summer. MSP-EVV is also being started too.

great to hear, while I haven't flown into EVV yet I'm sure I will at some point for a family reunion and it's great to know these will be options


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5679 times:

ATW is a bigger destination than people think with many companies (Including Plexis, Kimberly-Clark, Jansport, Gulfstream, and Pierce) all based very close to the airport, plus you have an area that draws from Wapauca, OshKosh, and the rest of the valley. I have seen very full CRJ's from MSP many times.

That being said, MEM is a shocker to me. I would have expected LGA before MEM. That being said, with the 750 NM rule that DL has, a second ATL frequency probably won't work, but MEM does work since they can use a 50 seat CRJ on it to follow their own rule and serve a lot of the same customers through MEM that otherwise would go through ATL.


User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3847 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5653 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 12):
I would have expected LGA before MEM.

(gives you a funny look) ATW-LGA is a serious stretch, on any airline.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 7):
Well you are in luck, in addition to MEM-ATW, DL is starting MEM-CID, MEM-LNK, and MEM-EVV this summer. MSP-EVV is also being started too.

Good to see a little life injected into the MEM hub.


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5612 times:

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 13):
Quoting apodino (Reply 12):
I would have expected LGA before MEM.

(gives you a funny look) ATW-LGA is a serious stretch, on any airline.

I know, my point was how much I didn't see this coming. Though other LGA routes are even bigger stretches on other airlines. I am eager though to see if UA tries EWR, but I doubt it.

Also remember that ATW had CVG service not too long ago, and this used to be DL's only ATW route. If MEM is successful, it could play a similar role to some stations that CVG played (though DTW does that as well)


User currently offlinecidflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2362 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5041 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 7):

Well you are in luck, in addition to MEM-ATW, DL is starting MEM-CID, MEM-LNK, and MEM-EVV this summer. MSP-EVV is also being started too.

this is awesome news! any idea when these routes will be started and with what frequencies? I believe NW flew MEM-LNK before also. CID-MEM is brand new, never been flown before, I had always hoped for this route back during the NW days. Glad DL is linking us up back to the southeast again, AA provides good one stops via DFW and UA is going to be starting CID-IAH soon as well, good to see DL stepping up a little here.


User currently offlineTrucker From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 190 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4760 times:

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 1):
I wonder what MEM will provide

Connections to smaller cities in TX, AR, LA, MS....

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 2):
My only "surprise" is that ATW will have MEM service and GRB won't (or at least doesn't now)...
Quoting apodino (Reply 12):
plus you have an area that draws from Wapauca, OshKosh

Yes, ATW has a better catchment area than GRB. Green Bay is kind of off by itself whereas Appleton is surrounded by other cities. Also Appleton and Oshkosh are more business comunities whereas Green Bay is more of a factory city so I think people in Appleton and Oshkosh fly more.

Living in Wisconsin, something I wonder about with the flights that come up from the southwest to Madison like MEM-MSN and DFW-MSN is why AA and DL just don't do a tag on to ATW. I'm sure people would much rather do a quick stop in MSN than connect at ORD or MSP. Thoughts?


User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1080 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4676 times:

Kimberly-Clark used to have a fairly large operation in MEM--I don't know if that is still the case.

Interesting to note that DL has started a number of seasonal routes out of MEM to the Midwest.


User currently offlineKGRB From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 721 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4650 times:

Here's a story on the new service, written by yours truly.  http://www.wtaq.com/news/articles/20...troduces-memphis-flights-appleton/

Add me to the list of folks surprised by this addition, but good for ATW! Now if we could only get ATL service back at GRB...

Quoting Trucker (Reply 16):
Yes, ATW has a better catchment area than GRB. Green Bay is kind of off by itself whereas Appleton is surrounded by other cities. Also Appleton and Oshkosh are more business comunities whereas Green Bay is more of a factory city so I think people in Appleton and Oshkosh fly more.

Not true. GRB has more service, more airlines, and tends to see larger aircraft. I don't have time to look it up, but I know passenger counts at GRB are higher than ATW.

Green Bay and Appleton both have a good mix of white collar and blue collar jobs, so I don't really see where you're coming from on this. Yields seem to be higher at ATW, but that's probably due to lesser competition.

[Edited 2011-03-05 07:23:30]


Δ D E L T A: Keep Climbing
User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2998 posts, RR: 31
Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4554 times:

I knew it was seasonal, but didn't realize it was just June 9 through August 11. That's nine weeks.

Quoting Trucker (Reply 16):
Living in Wisconsin, something I wonder about with the flights that come up from the southwest to Madison like MEM-MSN and DFW-MSN is why AA and DL just don't do a tag on to ATW. I'm sure people would much rather do a quick stop in MSN than connect at ORD or MSP. Thoughts?

The extra cost in fuel, aircraft cycles, crew costs, and time spent to have a DFW-MSN-DFW plane instead do DFW-MSN-ATW-MSN-DFW is signfiicant.

Also, look at it this way.

DFW-MSN is already flying with 40 out of 50 seats filled on average. At best, they'd can get an extra 10 people flying DFW-ATW. So that hop from MSN to ATW is for just ten passengers. Let's say instead they sell 25 seats from DFW to ATW. That might make the MSN-ATW hop more worthwhile...but to sell 25 DFW-ATW seats means they turned away 15 DFW-MSN customers who they could have served...getting all that revenue with the added expense of the extra MSN-ATW hop.

Instead, airlines like to fly nonstop from feeder cities to hubs because they can run largely full on every leg they fly. If they are looking to flying 10 people from ATW to DFW, it's must better for them to fly 10 people ATW-ORD along with lots of other people flying from ATW to other destinations, than flying ATW-MSN with only 10 people onboard.

It's all a lot more complicated than that, but that's a rough idea of why those "tag" flights are very rare.


User currently offlinecidflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2362 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4214 times:

are all of these routes seasonal? hopefully they will be extended permanently, its nice to have service connecting to southern hubs, especially during the winter time.

User currently offlineTrucker From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 190 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3204 times:

Quoting KGRB (Reply 18):
Green Bay and Appleton both have a good mix of white collar and blue collar jobs, so I don't really see where you're coming from on this

Green Bay's economy revolves around the papermills. Appleton/Oshkosh has a more diverse economy.

As for wether GRB or ATW is the more relevant airport it begs the question, "Why is DL choosing to fly to ATW rather than GRB"? They must feel it's the better option.


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3164 times:

Quoting Trucker (Reply 16):

Living in Wisconsin, something I wonder about with the flights that come up from the southwest to Madison like MEM-MSN and DFW-MSN is why AA and DL just don't do a tag on to ATW. I'm sure people would much rather do a quick stop in MSN than connect at ORD or MSP. Thoughts

Or for that matter, why doesn't AA just start ATW-ORD outright? I think AA could do decent on the route.

Quoting KGRB (Reply 18):

Not true. GRB has more service, more airlines, and tends to see larger aircraft. I don't have time to look it up, but I know passenger counts at GRB are higher than ATW.

Well, after the CO/UA merger, GRB will have AA, DL, UA, and F9, ATW currently has DL, UA, F9, and AY. Last time I checked, thats an equal amount of airlines in both places. The larger ac at GRB is because DL runs mainline flights into GRB from both DTW and ATW (A holdover from NW days) while ATW is all RJ's (DL ran one DC 9 into ATW for a few months though). If you look at UA, the aircraft are roughly the same size at both places, maybe slightly larger down at ATW with 70 seat lift. F9 is trying DEN from GRB, which UA tried from ATW and couldn't make work (It would have worked a few years ago when ZW still had the 146's).

All in all, probably more passengers at GRB than ATW, but the yields are higher at ATW. And I believe ATW is in expansion mode as well.


User currently offlineKGRB From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 721 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3074 times:

Quoting Trucker (Reply 21):
Green Bay's economy revolves around the papermills. Appleton/Oshkosh has a more diverse economy.

This is the list of the largest employers in the Green Bay metro area:
Employers Number of employees
Schneider National, Inc. 3,599
Georgia-Pacific Corp. 3,590
Humana 2,700
Green Bay Public Schools 2,655
Bellin Health 1,863
St. Vincent Hospital 1,853
Shopko Stores, Inc. 1,753
WPS Resources 1,545
Packerland Packing Co. Inc. 1,500
Brown County 1,424
American Medical Security 1,378
American Foods Group 1,377
Aurora Health Care 1,272

(source: http://www.city-data.com/us-cities/The-Midwest/Green-Bay-Economy.html)

10 out of the 13 are white-collar industries and only one of them is a paper mill. Your statements that Green Bay is a "factory city" and "people in Appleton and Oshkosh fly more" are totally false.

Quoting Trucker (Reply 21):
"Why is DL choosing to fly to ATW rather than GRB"? They must feel it's the better option.

For this particular route, I'm sure they do. As I said, yields are higher at ATW, which is important on a route that's all CRJ. Obviously, DL sees value in both places. It shouldn't be overlooked that DL flies A320s and MD-90s into GRB, but is all CRJ at ATW.

Quoting apodino (Reply 22):
Well, after the CO/UA merger, GRB will have AA, DL, UA, and F9, ATW currently has DL, UA, F9, and AY.

I believe you mean G4. And I was talking about the present, not post-merger. Still, I think that G4's weekly services don't have the same impact as daily service from AA.

So, all in all, both airports seem to be doing well. It doesn't have to be a "one vs. the other" equation.



Δ D E L T A: Keep Climbing
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3024 times:

Quoting KGRB (Reply 23):

I believe you mean G4. And I was talking about the present, not post-merger. Still, I think that G4's weekly services don't have the same impact as daily service from AA.

I agree, but as someone who works at ATW and flies out of there regularly with free parking as opposed to GRB, my opinion is of course biased toward ATW.  


25 Trucker : I think your list proves my point. GP is a huge paper mill. There's also a dozen other paper mills in Green Bay and De Pere. Schneider is the truckin
26 katwspotter : G4 is going back to 6 days a week service FYI.
27 apodino : Probably a seasonal adjustment for the summer. They will probably downgrade again after the summer.
28 cidflyer : I wonder if AA would ever consider resuming GRB-DFW?
29 MDShady : Anyone have an idea as to landing and gate fees for GRB and ATW? G4 moved to ATW when they got cheaper rates and possibly alluding to an aggressive st
30 saab2000 : If ATW and GRB had a combined airport somewhere around Kaukauna or a few miles north of Kaukauna it would be a pretty big combined market and there'd
31 Trucker : I think ATW-DFW would be more likely based on what DL and G4 have done. But doubtful will happen. I think there's more to this market than just Green
32 saab2000 : You're right about Oshkosh. But by the time you're that far south you're only 90 minutes away from MKE (at most) and direct flights to an awful lot o
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