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AC To Begin YTZ Flying May 1st  
User currently offlinecnz3 From Canada, joined Mar 2006, 134 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6323 times:

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/March2011/04/c8239.html

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/117236--air-canada-to-start-flying-out-of-island-airport-may-1

Finally a date. Tickets will go on sale March 7th.

To start there will be 15x daily YTZ - YUL.

If you don't already know, this flying will be done by Sky Regional Airlines, not Jazz.


D94/5 DH1/2/3/4 CR2/7/A/9 E45/70/75/90 319/20/21 734/G/8/9 752/3 762/3/4 313 333 388 L1011 772/L/W
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCF105Arrow From Canada, joined Oct 2007, 323 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6307 times:

great news, glad talks are over and flights can start

User currently offlineSQuared From Canada, joined May 2005, 387 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6239 times:

Quoting cnz3 (Thread starter):
To start there will be 15x daily YTZ - YUL.

Wow. They're really giving PD a run for its money... now there will be something like 30x YTZ-YUL on a given weekday... Let's hope PD can survive the onslaught.


User currently offlinecyeg66 From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 210 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6210 times:

 Wow!
I don't see this generating new flying b/w YUL and Toronto, so where's the cannibalism going to be felt most? Also, factor in that WS is increasing its flying in the triangle as well. Let the slaughter and further drop in margins commence...



slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
User currently offlinekeagkid101 From Portugal, joined Mar 2010, 306 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6190 times:

Well since customers have only been used to PD for the past 4 years at YTZ, and are satisfied with the product, why would they want to switch back to AC?

User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2296 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6134 times:

Some YYZ traffic from AC customers who live dt or on the subways will likely migrate. I would watch for traffic adjustment out of YYZ, downsizing or the reduction of half hour service in the rush periods etc. Some Porter customers who are Aeroplan members, and who like the dt convenience will go back to AC. Those who love Porter and not AC will stay with Porter for sure.

User currently offlinechallengerdan From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6118 times:

Aeroplan miles.

It's all about the miles!



if your flight goes MX in YUL, I might be called to fix it!
User currently offlinewatewate From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 2284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6105 times:

I'm curious to see AC's terminal amenities at YTZ.

If I were running AC, I would offer ML lounge access to those (except for the cheapest tango fares) flying into YTZ from other airports. If AC can build its own lounge in YTZ, AC can then boast lounge access at both ends, which PD cannot hope to match without going broke.


User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2296 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6042 times:

I am not sure there is room for a lounge at YTZ. The Maple Leaf Lounge at YUL is of course available.

User currently offlineyegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1732 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6016 times:

I sue remember those days doing once a week (YTZ-YOW-YTZ) when I used to live in Toronto.

Personally, I would fly AC in a heart beat! Not for the miles per say, but the qualifying segments.

Good Luck AC!!

Porter must be looking for a exit strategy right now - maybe WestJet should pick them up and call then WestJet Express. That's the only way they can survive with WJ's recent boost to its Eastern Triangle service.


User currently offlineRJLover From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 578 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5857 times:

As a Jazz employee, I am watching this battle very closely.....


Last Flight(s): YHZ-YUL-YOW-YWG-YVR // YVR-YYZ // YYZ-YUL-YHZ
User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5706 times:

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 9):
That's the only way they can survive with WJ's recent boost to its Eastern Triangle service.

I think that's a bit overstated. While it's true that Porter's 'free ride' is about to get more costly, they've shown solid growth and it's not as though their schedule is going to be completely duplicated by AC here. I would presume their own loyalty program will help retain many of those who've been using them over the last few years. It's also not clear that AC will be able to run with much lower costs than PD at YTZ, especially given the necessity of essentially renting space from PD. I guess the real question is to what extent they're willing to not make money at YTZ, if in return they get to undercut PD's own yields. On the other hand, if they use this operation as a 'loss-leader', I'm under the impression they could face legal challenges for doing so.

All in all, I think PD should be able to weather this, although it may hurt their recent growth in load factor.

My question is, will there be any reduction of AC capacity at all on YYZ-YUL, to account for the addition of the YTZ-YUL flights.

JL



Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5663 times:

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 5):
I would watch for traffic adjustment out of YYZ, downsizing or the reduction of half hour service in the rush periods etc.
Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 11):
My question is, will there be any reduction of AC capacity at all on YYZ-YUL, to account for the addition of the YTZ-YUL flights

While it's likely the Pearson Rapidair flights might see some downguages, it will be interesting to see where that extra capacity ends up (ie: new routes, or added capicity to other current city pairs). Might make for an interesting domino effect.


User currently offlineyegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1732 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5343 times:

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 11):
I think that's a bit overstated. While it's true that Porter's 'free ride' is about to get more costly, they've shown solid growth and it's not as though their schedule is going to be completely duplicated by AC here. I would presume their own loyalty program will help retain many of those who've been using them over the last few years. It's also not clear that AC will be able to run with much lower costs than PD at YTZ, especially given the necessity of essentially renting space from PD. I guess the real question is to what extent they're willing to not make money at YTZ, if in return they get to undercut PD's own yields. On the other hand, if they use this operation as a 'loss-leader', I'm under the impression they could face legal challenges for doing so.

All in all, I think PD should be able to weather this, although it may hurt their recent growth in load factor.

My question is, will there be any reduction of AC capacity at all on YYZ-YUL, to account for the addition of the YTZ-YUL flights.

JL

PD sold their product primarily based on convenience. But when AC can offer the same convenience, why would anyone choose specifically PD. That's my point.


User currently offlineaamd11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1061 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5288 times:

City Centre Terminal Corp (CCTC) will be making adjustments to the terminal facilities to accommodate the arrival of other airlines. Terminal signage will be changing, and check-in kiosks for other airlines will be installed. The Porter shuttle I believe will become a Toronto-City Airport shuttle instead (serving other carriers passengers as well as Porter's).

Sky Regional will be leasing terminal space from CCTC, and fuel will almost certainly have to be purchased from Porter FBO (who I believe manage the fuel at the airport). Sky Regional will have their own flight crews and customer service staff, but I'm under the impression they will be using existing personnel at YTZ for all other aspects of ground handling...

15x daily departures I believe is the fullest extent of Air Canada's slot allocations at YTZ... so for now, YUL is the only destination.

Any confirmation on the configuration for Sky Regional's Q400s? Rumours over the months have ranged between 64 pax to 78 pax... can't see anything more than 70, though...


User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5155 posts, RR: 43
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5224 times:

Quoting aamd11 (Reply 14):
Any confirmation on the configuration for Sky Regional's Q400s? Rumours over the months have ranged between 64 pax to 78 pax... can't see anything more than 70, though...

The on board product will be Rapidair Executive Class for the entire aircraft, with 68 Economy seats, sold at Economy fares.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinebraynfeeble From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5122 times:

Hooray finally some fair competition!


♥☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆•*¨* je voudrais voler / comme un oiseau d'aile d'aile ♥☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆•*¨*
User currently offlineMattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5068 times:

Quoting aamd11 (Reply 14):
Any confirmation on the configuration for Sky Regional's Q400s? Rumours over the months have ranged between 64 pax to 78 pax... can't see anything more than 70, though...
http://www.aircanada.com/shared/en/common/fleet/pop_fleetDH4.html



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5055 times:

Hmm, I feel a trip coming on! YTZ-YUL on AC and YUL-YTZ on PD. Brilliant 


Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlinetopgun3 From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4686 times:

I hope PD with start connecting flights from YXU to YTZ. This will steal some business from JAZZ that connects YXU to YYZ. I would definitely consider flying Porter from YXU if it started service here.

As much as I like to see competition in the Canadian market, I feel Air Canada is doing this strictly to pressure Porter...but I have a feeling AC will not make money and will suffer financially from this decision.



I'd rather be flying.
User currently offlineYYZAMS From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4511 times:

I wonder if Porter will consider going out of YYZ now....maybe then AC will let them have some space at T1?    Though it is a far  

User currently offlineYYZRWY23 From Canada, joined Aug 2009, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4474 times:

I am glad AC is starting service to the island. That airport is still, even with PD, underused and is a great asset to the city. The downtown business people and residents are going to flock to this service, especially if they are Star Alliance or AC Status and usually go to YYZ for YUL service. I think this competition will show if PD is truly competitive or if they were living a dream with their own little airport. The CO flights might cause serious problems for PD on YTZ-EWR, especially because CO can carry connecting paxs into their US network, while PD can realistically only work o&d traffic between those cities.

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 18):
Hmm, I feel a trip coming on! YTZ-YUL on AC and YUL-YTZ on PD. Brilliant

My friend will be attending McGill next year, and I will certainly be heading to YTZ to fly to YUL instead of YYZ, just to try this service out. I may even do AC one way PD the return just for some comparisons.

One thought; Even though this thread is about the AC cpommencement of service, I feel I need to make this point on the sustainability of PD. PD entered an empty airport and started service with a premium product (snackbox, real glass and cutlery) and have been increasing their LF with no competition. AC is now entering on what is one of their two key routes (the other being YOW) and will be offering similar service but with the advantage of Aeroplan members, and a feed in YUL. I think PD is going to have to lower fares to match AC, which will result in a reduction of the premium amenities of PD. If this happens, I think that will spell the end of PD.

Quoting topgun3 (Reply 19):
I hope PD with start connecting flights from YXU to YTZ.

Why, I don't think the o&d on that route is very high at all. From what I gather, a nice chunk of the business on that route is paxs connecting into AC's YYZ network, something PD can certainly not match. For example, a friend of mine the attends Western (university in London) knows someone that flies the YXU-YYZ service because he needs to connect onto the YYZ-NRT service.

YYZRWY23



If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
User currently offlineYYZAMS From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4437 times:

Quoting YYZRWY23 (Reply 21):

CO? Don't you mean United? And WHEN are they actually going to start?


User currently offlineMattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4426 times:

Quoting topgun3 (Reply 19):
I feel Air Canada is doing this strictly to pressure Porter...

We have no need to pressure PD - the fact that they had a monopoly at YTZ & couldn't turn a profit puts more pressure on them than we ever could.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4412 times:

Is it theoretically conceivable UA could contract Skyservice to operate the YTZ-EWR route utilizing the slots awarded to CO and would that allow AC to code-share?

25 Post contains images cyeg66 : Lots of DH8D's about to be dumped on the market? Maybe Jazz could snatch 'em up and finally plan to fly out West with them.
26 yegbey01 : WestJet does it through North American on their flights to Hawaii
27 ACABlaker : Out of YYZ the schedule will not at the moment see a downgauge in the Rapidair product, we are preparing for summer planning and there is no sign the
28 OrdfrBdl : I am a frequent reader to A.net but a very infrequent poster.... I want to throw a thought out there. I know PD has spent a lot of resources developin
29 Viscount724 : In major business markets like those PD would be at a competitive disadvantage with AC and major US carriers with strong frequent flyer bases. The co
30 yyz717 : The established operations (AC from YYZ and PD from YTZ) will suffer the most from the new AC service to YTZ. While Aeroplan will draw alot of AC and
31 AirNovaBAe146 : AC might be getting hurt on YTZ YUL, but it will be a minor pin prick compared to what will happen with PD. Porter had about four routes that are pro
32 sanjet : I dont foresee Colgan operating out of YTZ for a long time. There is specific training and ops required to operate and they simply currently do not h
33 RamblinMan : Because the service is better? Or perhaps to avoid the cycle of the new-entrant builds up a market, legacy swoops in and runs them out of town, then
34 yyz717 : More reasons: 1. ALOT of Toronto-based business travellers travel only to YUL, YOW and NYC....only PD covers these 3 primary business markets from YT
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