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Price Fixing - Fines And Jail Time  
User currently offlinen92r03 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 344 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4126 times:

The article says 21 airlines in all, but it does not name all of them. Huge fines and even jail time for a couple CEO's.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/mar...assenger-cargo-fees/news-breaking/

* I did see some other threads form years ago, but nothing current.

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26499 posts, RR: 75
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4009 times:

If only they would go after the US carriers along with the oil companies.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently onlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2103 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3983 times:

With joint ventures and mergers it's legal now

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25338 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3912 times:

Quoting n92r03 (Thread starter):
Huge fines and even jail time for a couple CEO's.

No CEOs went to jail and I see no reference to "CEO" or "chief executive" in the news item. This is old news.


User currently offlinegspflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 369 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3884 times:

My Dad told me he read about this earlier today and QF was mentioned. Wasn't that in the early 2000's? Or did they get busted a second time?

User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9386 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3661 times:

No, it is an ongoing matter. Finally the airlines are standing up against this and take this to court instead of buying themselves out by paying the fines and drop their cargo sales executives like hot potatoes and throw them to the legal wolves.

It has unfortunately happened that these guys (QF cargo sales executive in LAX) has been dropped by the airline and was made scape goat and thrown to the legal system. For what? The guy did nothing wrong but represrenting his airline aqnd contacting customer, the freight forwarders. that was his job. now, some DA constrcuted a case whch would not hold up if put through the system. However, a sales executive could put up all his live savings, his house and everything and i would not be enough to pay for the defense. What choice did these people have but a plea bargaining? Nothing. Going to jail for doing nothing wrong. I cannot call such a system "justice" It's not, it is gross injuustice.

There never has been any price fixing in air cargo. Even if a number of sales VPs of various airlines would agree on rates, that would not hold up the afternoon of that meeting. The next forwarder calling in with a special, large shipment of a certain weight and density would get a special rate. Period. Always has been like that, and I don't see any changes.

The "fixed" prices are the surcharges for fuel and security. If fuel goes up, the surcharge goes up. That does not need a convention , that does not even need phone calls where prices are fixed.

Carrier A puts up his fuel surcharge because the barrel Brent goes up by US$ 10,00 and informs hisw customers, the freight forwarders, puts it on his website as well. Carrier B follows suit that afternoon and within 2 days the rest f the bunch all will hjave the same surhcarge. No price fixing, just following the market trend.

Security sucharge - same thing, you have your warehouse contracted to an oprator who calculates his costs., many carriers have the same contractor, hence the same costs and charges. Price fixing? No,

Even freight forwarders have been hit with this ridiculous allegation, Although a freight forwarder just passes the costs on to his customer, does not even get a commission. Price fixing ? No.,

Finally Cargolux and some few others have stood up against this justice scandal., their CEO , a highly respected person in the industry, has stepped down from his post to fight this case through the courtsw. It will be an interesting case to follow.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinemffoda From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3439 times:

Quoting n92r03 (Thread starter):
The article says 21 airlines in all, but it does not name all of them. Huge fines and even jail time for a couple CEO's.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/mar...king/




I could not get that link to open... But here is another:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110306/...o_ca_st_pe/us_airline_price_fixing

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 5):
There never has been any price fixing in air cargo. Even if a number of sales VPs of various airlines would agree on rates, that would not hold up the afternoon of that meeting. The next forwarder calling in with a special, large shipment of a certain weight and density would get a special rate. Period. Always has been like that, and I don't see any changes.



Here are some Quotes from the article:

The price-fixing unraveled largely because two airlines decided to come clean and turn in their co-conspirators.

In late 2005, officials with German-based Lufthansa notified the Justice Department that the airline had been conspiring to set cargo surcharges. By Valentine's Day 2006, FBI agents and their counterparts in Europe made the investigation public by raiding airline offices. After those raids, British-based Virgin Atlantic came forward about its role in a similar scheme to set fuel surcharges for passengers.

The Lufthansa and Virgin Atlantic mea culpas allowed them to take advantage of a Justice Department leniency program because they helped crack the conspiracies.

British Airways and Korean Air pleaded guilty to violating the Sherman act; each was fined $300 million in August 2007.

British Airways admitted fixing cargo surcharges from 2002 to 2006 and passenger fuel surcharges from 2004 to 2006. Korean Air admitted fixing cargo and passenger surcharges from 2000 to 2006.

Announcing four guilty pleas in June 2008, O'Connor said the case "conservatively, has affected billions of dollars of shipments. Estimates suggest that the harm to American consumers and businesses from this conspiracy is in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

Lebsock believes the conspiracies were so well hidden that it's possible they would have continued undetected had Lufthansa not come forward.

"In the absence of someone coming forward, and ratting it out, it is very, very difficult to establish that there was a (conspiracy)," Lebsock said.



My question is...

If there was no price fixing as you suggest PanHAM... Why did Lufthansa notify the Justice Department that the airline had been conspiring to set cargo surcharges. Because, before they came forward there was no investigation? And why would British Airways and Korean Air plea guilty and agree to pay $300 million dollar fines?

[Edited 2011-03-06 13:25:41]


harder than woodpecker lips...
User currently offlinecrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 698 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3408 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 1):
If only they would go after the US carriers along with the oil companies.

US carriers didn't participate in the price fixing.

And what do the oil companies have to do with anything?


User currently offlinemffoda From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3279 times:

I went looking for more info on who else was involved, besides the ones mentioned in the article from the above link.

From the DOJ website:

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2010/September/10-at-1082.html

Quote:

China Airlines is charged with price fixing in violation of the Sherman Act, which carries a maximum fine of $100 million for corporations. The maximum fine may be increased to twice the gain derived from the crime or twice the loss suffered by the victims of the crime, if either of those amounts is greater than the statutory maximum fine.

Including today’s charge, as a result of this investigation, a total of 18 airlines and eight executives have been charged in the Justice Department’s ongoing investigation into price fixing in the air transportation industry. To date, more than $1.6 billion in criminal fines have been imposed and four executives have been sentenced to serve prison time. Charges are pending against the remaining four executives.

The airlines that have pleaded guilty, or have agreed to plead guilty, as a result of the department’s ongoing investigation into the air transportation industry are: British Airways Plc, Korean Air Lines Co. Ltd., Qantas Airways Limited, Japan Airlines International Co. Ltd., Martinair Holland N.V., Cathay Pacific Airways Limited, SAS Cargo Group A/S, Société Air France, Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (KLM Royal Dutch Airlines), EL AL Israel Airlines Ltd., LAN Cargo S.A., Aerolinhas Brasileiras S.A., Cargolux Airlines International S.A., Nippon Cargo Airlines Co. Ltd., Northwest Airlines LLC and Asiana Airlines Inc. Additionally, on Sept. 2, 2010, Polar Air Cargo LLC was charged in this investigation and is scheduled to enter a guilty plea and be sentenced on Oct. 15, 2010.

Airline executives who have pleaded guilty as a result of the investigation are Bruce McCaffrey of Qantas, Keith Packer of British Airways, Franciscus Johannes de Jong of Martinair and Timothy Pfeil of SAS Cargo. On Aug. 12, 2009, Jan Lillieborg, a citizen and resident of Sweden and former vice president of global sales for SAS Cargo, was indicted for participating in a conspiracy to suppress and eliminate competition by allocating customers and coordinating surcharge increases for international air shipments to and from the United States. On Aug. 26, 2010, Joo Ahn Kang, former president of Asiana, and Chung Sik Kwak, former vice president of the Americas region of Asiana, both citizens and residents of the Republic of Korea, were indicted for participating in a conspiracy to suppress and eliminate competition by fixing passenger airfares for travel between the United States and Korea. On Sept. 21, 2010, Maria Christina "Meta" Ullings, senior vice president of Cargo Sales and Marketing of Martinair Holland N.V., was indicted for participating in a conspiracy to fix and coordinate certain surcharges on air cargo shipments to and from the United States. Trial dates have yet to be scheduled for these individuals.


Additionally,

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 5):
now, some DA constrcuted a case whch would not hold up if put through the system. However, a sales executive could put up all his live savings, his house and everything and i would not be enough to pay for the defense. What choice did these people have but a plea bargaining? Nothing. Going to jail for doing nothing wrong. I cannot call such a system "justice" It's not, it is gross injuustice.



I can appreciate that everyone is innocent until proven guilty...

But, do you have facts that support your claim that the "DA constrcuted a case which would not hold up if put through the system." & "What choice did these people have but a plea bargaining? Nothing." I mean if I was being thrown to the wolves, I think I would want to bring down the decision makers with me rather then become a scape goat... wouldn't you?

And, if this "DA constrcuted a case which would not hold up if put through the system." Why did Qantas agree to pay a $61 million dollar fine to the US and $13 million to the EU for such low level employee misconduct??

Also, If you have a look at the paragraph above of those also indicted, but have Not gone to Trial yet:

Jan Lillieborg, former vice president of global sales for SAS Cargo.
Joo Ahn Kang, former president of Asiana.
Chung Sik Kwak, former vice president of the Americas region of Asiana.
Maria Christina "Meta" Ullings, senior vice president of Cargo Sales and Marketing of Martinair Holland N.V.

Do these people: Vice President, President, Vice President and Senior Vice President have a choice regarding their legal defense? Or are they going for the first year court appointed lawyers??

To date, over $3 Billion dollars have been fined and paid by these airlines to the U.S. & EU for "doing nothing wrong"??

Can you explain that??

As far as Cargolux is concerned:

Cargolux, along with a number of other airlines, has been subject to investigation by antitrust authorities around the world:

•In 2009, as a result of an investigation by the Australian Competition & Consumer Commission (ACCC), Cargolux agreed to pay A$5 million in price-fixing penalties.
•In 2008, New Zealand's Commerce Commission initiated proceedings in the High Court in Auckland against Cargolux and twelve other airlines for extensive and long-term cartel activity in the air cargo market.
•In 2010, the South African Competition Commission (SACC) referred cases of collusion in the air cargo market to the Tribunal for adjudication, involving Cargolux and seven other airlines.
•In 2010, the Korea Fair Trade Commission (KFTC) imposed fines totalling 119.54 billion won on nineteen airlines. Cargolux was fined 2.05 billion won.
•In 2010, Cargolux pleaded guilty in a Canadian Federal Court and was fined $2.5 million for its role in an air cargo cartel affecting Canada.
•In 2009, Cargolux and a number of other cargo airlines entered into plea agreements with the US Dept of Justice following an investigation by the DOJ's Antitrust division. Cargolux agreed to pay a fine of US$119 million. In October 2010, two of the airline's senior executives were indicted. And, in a class action lawsuit, Cargolux reached a settlement agreement of US$35.1 million.


That's allot money for doing nothing wrong.. No?

Edit:

Just wanted to add that Northwest & Polar air cargo were also fined $38 & 17.4 million for their part.

[Edited 2011-03-06 16:34:00]


harder than woodpecker lips...
User currently offlineMattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3250 times:

Quoting crosswinds21 (Reply 7):
US carriers didn't participate in the price fixing.
Quoting mffoda (Reply 8):
The airlines that have pleaded guilty, or have agreed to plead guilty, as a result of the department’s ongoing investigation into the air transportation industry are: ... Northwest Airlines LLC

I think Northwest would qualify, no?



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1291 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3127 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 5):
There never has been any price fixing in air cargo. Even if a number of sales VPs of various airlines would agree on rates, that would not hold up the afternoon of that meeting.

Under the Sherman Act, the agreement is the crime.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 5):
That does not need a convention , that does not even need phone calls where prices are fixed.

True, it doesn't. There are a lot of private suits regarding similar lines of conduct, often with exactly the result one might predict. The distinction here is that there were agreements. Numerous companies have admitted this, including the initial amnesty applicants before both the DG-Comp and DOJ.

What I don't get is why this is news. This investigation has been going on for years, as have several others.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9386 posts, RR: 29
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3100 times:

Quoting mffoda (Reply 6):
If there was no price fixing as you suggest PanHAM... Why did Lufthansa notify the Justice Department that the airline had been conspiring to set cargo surcharges. Because, before they came forward there was no investigation? And why would British Airways and Korean Air plea guilty and agree to pay $300 million dollar fines?

Because it was cheaper to plead "guilty" than fighting this through the court system. You have to udnerstand that airlines do not have an x-number of employees on hand who can go through the files and supply the informaiton that is required. Plus the legal fees and all the BS that is connected with the procedures.

Quoting mffoda (Reply 8):

But, do you have facts that support your claim that the "DA constrcuted a case which would not hold up if put through the system." & "What choice did these people have but a plea bargaining? Nothing." I mean if I was being thrown to the wolves, I think I would want to bring down the decision makers with me rather then become a scape goat... wouldn't you?

44 years of personal history in air cargo. The allegation that something like "price fixxing" can take place in international air cargo is laughable.

We are talking about surcharges here, for fuel and security and not about air cargo rates in first place. A "price " in air cargo is made up of three parts - the air cargo rate, the fuel surcharge and the security surcharge. Only if the total, the end price would be fixed, it would eventually be a "crime". . The DAs simply do not understand the business and construct a case where they alleg that - let's asume it has been done - they say that the fixing of 2 isolated parts of an end price is punishable. I have mentiuoned before that there was, however, no need to fix a price by telephone confernece or whatever. Air line A issues a notice to their customers that they raise the fule surcharge and all others fillow suit by their own decision - within 2 days, simply because they all have to pay more or less the same fuel costs.

Quoting IADCA (Reply 10):
Under the Sherman Act, the agreement is the crime.

I said "even if" - air cargo nrates are market rates. ou have your standard rates and if you have a particular shipment over a certain weight you go ont he market. Freight Forwarders handle most of the business and they get their quote from the carrier and quote to the customers independently, they decide how many cents per kilo they mark it up. When I was selling in NY in the garment centre in the mid 70s they customers sometimes switched to the compettion for 1/2 a cent per pound. The going rate to Europe for larger shipments was between 0,27 and 0,30 S$/lbs.



Quoting IADCA (Reply 10):
What I don't get is why this is news. This investigation has been going on for years, as have several others.

It is an aongoing case and because finally some carriers have stood up against this criminal plot made up by the justice systems and the ridiculous fines which will, at the end of the day, be paid by consumers anyhow, it will go on for some time. One can wish CV their fomrer CEO Uli Ogierman and all the others who stepped up and fight this all the best and good luck.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26499 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3055 times:

Quoting crosswinds21 (Reply 7):

US carriers didn't participate in the price fixing.

And what do the oil companies have to do with anything?

1) Yeah right.

2) Notoriously anti-competitive.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineoffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 886 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2961 times:

So how is the above price fixing any different to the following:

Air fares (base fares, excl. taxes/fuel surcharges and fare basis) currently between LON and NYC

LONNYC
1 LX 66.00R EPROMFUK
2 TP 70.00R APROMOUK
3 US 94.00R GLXEU0WU
4 UX 94.00R PXPRO
5 BA 94.00R OLXRCUK9
6 FI 94.00R UQRZSPEC
7 IB 94.00R OLXGB
8 DL 94.00R TLXPRGB
9 KL 94.00R VLXPRGB
10 AF 94.00R NLXPRGB
LONEWR
11 AF 94.00R NLXPRGB
LONNYC
12 AC 94.00R LLXNNZGB
13 AA 94.00R OLXMCGB
14 AZ 94.00R LLXGB
LONEWR
15 LH 94.00R LLXNNZGB
LONNYC
16 LH 94.00R LLXNNZGB
17 UA 94.00R LLXNNZGB
18 CO 94.00R LLXNNZGB

14 airlines charging the same base fare. Is that price matching, or price fixing?



To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlinecrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 698 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2944 times:

Quoting offloaded (Reply 13):
So how is the above price fixing any different to the following:

Air fares (base fares, excl. taxes/fuel surcharges and fare basis) currently between LON and NYC

LONNYC
1 LX 66.00R EPROMFUK
2 TP 70.00R APROMOUK
3 US 94.00R GLXEU0WU
4 UX 94.00R PXPRO
5 BA 94.00R OLXRCUK9
6 FI 94.00R UQRZSPEC
7 IB 94.00R OLXGB
8 DL 94.00R TLXPRGB
9 KL 94.00R VLXPRGB
10 AF 94.00R NLXPRGB
LONEWR
11 AF 94.00R NLXPRGB
LONNYC
12 AC 94.00R LLXNNZGB
13 AA 94.00R OLXMCGB
14 AZ 94.00R LLXGB
LONEWR
15 LH 94.00R LLXNNZGB
LONNYC
16 LH 94.00R LLXNNZGB
17 UA 94.00R LLXNNZGB
18 CO 94.00R LLXNNZGB

14 airlines charging the same base fare. Is that price matching, or price fixing?

Your example is one of price matching, which is a big difference from price fixing. Price fixing would be if all these airlines got together and said "let's set the fare for NYC-LON to $100." Price matching is when one airline sets or changes it's price in a market, and then waits to see if other airlines follow. This is very risky because if an airline tries to raise its fares and other airlines don't match, then the original airline will almost always have to rescind that fare increase. Meanwhile, while the airline was waiting for its competitors to match its price, it lost a good deal of market share and the revenue that comes with that market share, because customers were buying seats from competitors at the lower price.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
1) Yeah right.

2) Notoriously anti-competitive.

1. "Yeah right?" How do you know? I'm sure that all US airlines have been price fixing for the last whatever amount of year while still losing billions. What a silly statement. You accuse airlines of price fixing but I bet you're quite satisfied when you purchase your ticket from LAX to NYC for $109.

2. Here we go again. "Notoriously anti-competitive"? Oil companies already make such big profits, so why would they risk losing that just so that they can raise prices a little more? And fuel prices in the US are already quite low when compared to many other countries, particularly in Europe. You really think that all this time, the oil companies have been colluding all along?

You seem to really have something against big businesses. My initial impression was that you're either a union worker or a lawyer. So when I looked at your profile, the answer didn't surprise me at all.

Quoting MattRB (Reply 9):
I think Northwest would qualify, no?

Yeah, maybe in this case they would. I actually read another article when I posted that response and that article said that US airlines didn't participate in this price fixing and I believe that it didn't mention NW.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2894 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 11):
44 years of personal history in air cargo. The allegation that something like "price fixxing" can take place in international air cargo is laughable.

Please explain to me how any alleged crime of price-fixing in air cargo would be laughable. Sorry, but you seem to be saying your 44 years in the industry qualifies you to declare absolutely definitively that such could never take place......so I'm curious how it 'could never happen'?

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 11):
Because it was cheaper to plead "guilty" than fighting this through the court system. You have to udnerstand that airlines do not have an x-number of employees on hand who can go through the files and supply the informaiton that is required. Plus the legal fees and all the BS that is connected with the procedures.

Are you seriously trying to make me believe that not a single airline has ever been involved in price fixing, but just plead guilty to avoid the cost of defending a crime they were never involved in? Interesting viewpoint that! Would I thus be correct in assuming that you naturally have factual evidence to back up your comment that such over many years has been a giant conspiracy by law enforcement angainst every airline? Would this be correct, or is it just blind opinion without any factual basis whatever?


User currently offlineAerofan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2772 times:

I do recall one Director at VS being given his walking papers.

User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1291 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2643 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 11):
Because it was cheaper to plead "guilty" than fighting this through the court system. You have to udnerstand that airlines do not have an x-number of employees on hand who can go through the files and supply the informaiton that is required. Plus the legal fees and all the BS that is connected with the procedures.

You ignore the fact that the whole genesis of this was several cartel participants applying to the DOJ amnesty program and, as part of those filings, turning over literally millions of pages of incriminating documents. That's how most cartel investigations get started now. By the time the rest of the carriers pled guilty, DOJ already had pretty much all they needed on all of them. Also, would you really want to be trying one of these cases before a jury?

You also ignore that pleading guilty does nothing to mitigate the effects of the inevitable barrage of class action civil cases that follow. Settlements in these cases often dwarf the criminal fines, even for the original (successful) amnesty applicant. Except for the small number of executives directly implicated in the conspiracy, the criminal cases are relatively small potatoes when compared to suits that can come in every U.S. state and multiple foreign countries. A guilty plea is not exactly an easy fact to explain away in such cases.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 11):
The allegation that something like "price fixxing" can take place in international air cargo is laughable.

On the contrary, the business has many of the economic attributes that make markets extremely conducive to price-fixing, and passenger transport even moreso. Also, the fact that - in this case - multiple companies applied for amnesty with DOJ, which requires a detailed admission of guilt, is pretty strong evidence in my mind that it did happen.


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