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Who Pays Medical Diversion...didnt Take-off  
User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1660 posts, RR: 1
Posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5085 times:

Hi All,

Last Sunday my partner was aboard Air Canada AC546 from YYC to LAS. Already late to depart (apparently not enough groundstaff to move the plane to the gate...), they were about an hour behind schedule. While taxiing to the runway, my partner doubled over in excrutiating pain. A doctor was onboard, and it was suspected there was a possible rupture due to a Kidney Stone being dislodged (because of pressurization).

The plane returned to the gate, and my partner was barely able to make it down the aisle. However, AC staff was beyond helpful, and assisted as much as they could both on the plane, and in the terminal. (If anyone from AC reads this...please pass on our eternal gratitude)

My question is: How is the extra expense of returning to gate handled? I am not worried about getting a bill, but curious as to what happens?



As far as a medical update, the stone was rather large...and required surgery. Short story on recovery...he came home today, very sore...but happy the plane didn't take off. His next trip is supposed to be this Sunday to DEN, but it is very doubtful he will make that schedule.


AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineYYZRWY23 From Canada, joined Aug 2009, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5078 times:

Quoting rikkus67 (Thread starter):
How is the extra expense of returning to gate handled?

How much of an extra expense is there? Yes, a bit more fuel is used to return to the gate and for start-up again, but it isn't like they pay the push-back crew for each push they do. With an hour delay already incurred, I am sure that flight was going to burn more fuel anyway to make up some of the delay en-route.

In short: Don't worry about it, and don't expect a bill.

Some airliners descned from cruise, land at an unshceduled airport, offload a pax, have to take on more fuel (if needed), get a new release, and leave with an hour or two's delay. Yet i don't think any airlines send a bill to that passenger.

And last of all, glad all ended well for him. Crew did there job well also.

To a speedy recovery!

YYZRWY23



If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1660 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5062 times:

I wasn't really concerned at all about a bill, just curious how this was dealt with, especially since the plane didn't take off.

He's still sore...and the pain killers are still goin' in like candy... but feeling much better than having 3 days worth of morphine in his system.



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5669 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5026 times:

Quoting rikkus67 (Thread starter):
My question is: How is the extra expense of returning to gate handled?

For a large airline like Air Canada, it's not even a blip on the balance sheet. Nobody worries about it.

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 2):
just curious how this was dealt with

There's really nothing to deal with, as far as finances go.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineMarkHKG From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4978 times:

I wish your partner a speedy recovery!

Quoting rikkus67 (Thread starter):
However, AC staff was beyond helpful

I assisted at a medical emergency as a bystander in the arrival hall at YVR - the AC crew on the flight I flew in were also leaving at the time and stopped to help. They were amazing "good Samaritans"...really proud that AC trains their crew so well.



Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25626 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4387 times:

Quoting YYZRWY23 (Reply 1):
Some airliners descned from cruise, land at an unshceduled airport, offload a pax, have to take on more fuel (if needed), get a new release, and leave with an hour or two's delay. Yet i don't think any airlines send a bill to that passenger.

It's just one of the costs of doing business. There are many medical diversions every day, probably dozens worldwide. Following just a few involving Canada (or Canadian airspace) in the past month (since February 1, 2011) from the Transport Canada daily incident reports.

In the vicinity of 50N 050W the crew of COA94, Continental Airlines Boeing 757-200, enroute from Newark (KEWR) to Belfast (EGAA), declared a medical emergency and requested clearance to divert to Gander (CYQX). The flight was cleared as requested and the aircraft landed at 06:07Z without further incident.

AWE729, US Airways Airbus A330-200, enroute from London (EGLL) to Philadelphia (KPHL), declared a medical emergency and requested clearance to Goose Bay (CYYR). The flight crew advised that company dispatch was taking care of the details and requested Air Traffic Control (ATC) to arrange for an ambulance at Goose Bay. The aircraft was cleared direct to Goose Bay. No other assistance was required.

DLH424, Lufthansa Airbus A330-300, enroute from Munich (EDDM) to Boston (KBOS), at 18:16Z, position 60N030W, declared a medical emergency (passenger) and requested clearance to divert to Keflavik (BIKF). Gander Air Traffic Control (ATC) cleared the flight as requested. The flight was passed to Reykjavík (BIRK) ATC at 18:41Z.

Approaching 50W, AAL172, American Airlines Boeing 757-200, enroute from New York (KJFK) to Brussels (EBBR), declared a medical emergency and requested clearance to divert to Gander (CYQX). The aircraft landed at 02:33Z. There was no impact on operations.

AFR636, Air France Boeing 777-200, enroute from Paris (LFPG) to Houston (KIAH), declared a medical emergency and requested to divert to St. John’s (CYYT). The aircraft was cleared to 30,000 ft. and direct to St. John’s. A fuel dump commenced at 15:10Z until 15:22Z on a track YYT/020R. The aircraft landed at 15:53Z without further incident.

KLM48, Boeing 747-400, enroute from Chicago (KORD) to Amsterdam (EHAM), declared a medical emergency (passenger) and requested clearance to Halifax (CYHZ). Clearance was issued and ambulance/medical reception was arranged as requested at Halifax.

AWE733, US Airways Airbus A330-300, enroute from London (EGKK) to Charlotte (KCLT), declared a medical emergency and requested clearance to Goose Bay (CYYR). The flight was cleared as requested. The Gander Area Control Centre (ACC) was advised.

BAW193, British Airways Boeing 747-400, enroute from London (EGLL) to Dallas/Fort Worth (KDFW), routing 65N050W 64N060W, declared a medical emergency 10 minutes flying time west of 50W. The aircraft requested and received clearance direct to Goose Bay (CYYR). The flight landed at 17:31Z.

AAL57, American Airlines Boeing 777-200, enroute from London (EGLL) to Miami (KMIA), routing Track E 56N030W at 12:54Z, 37,000 ft., estimating 56N040W at 13:40Z, declared a medical emergency at 13:02Z and requested clearance to divert to Keflavik (BIKF). Due to traffic, the aircraft carried out published oceanic emergency contingency procedures and descended to 29,000 ft. where clearance was issued direct to Keflavík.

DAL46, Delta Air Lines Boeing 767-300, enroute from Atlanta (KATL) to Moscow (UUEE), declared a medical emergency at 00:50Z and requested clearance direct to St. John’s (CYYT). The flight was cleared as requested and landed at 02:07Z.

ETD151, Etihad Airways Airbus A340-600, enroute from Abu Dhabi (OMAA) to Chicago (KORD), declared a medical emergency 40 miles west of Nain (CYDP). The flight was cleared direct to Goose Bay (CYYR) and landed at 18:54Z.

AAL137, American Airlines B777-200 en route from London to Los Angeles declared a medical emergency and requested deviation to Minneapolis. MSP ACC advised. No impact to operation.

WestJet Airlines Ltd. Boeing 737-700 (operating as flight WJA576) was on a scheduled IFR flight from Saskatoon (CYXE) to Toronto (CYYZ). The aircraft was en-route when the flight crew reported a medical situation and requested to divert to Winnipeg (CYWG). No assistance was required and the aircraft landed without incident at 1502Z.

Airbus A330-200 operated by Air France as flight number AFR083, was on an IFR flightfrom San Francisco (KSFO) to Paris (LFPG). At coordinates 5104N / 08359W, the crew declared a medical emergency due to the health of one of the passengers, and requested a diversion to Montréal (CYUL). The aircraft landed without incident on Runway 06L at 0540Z.


User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1660 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
There are many medical diversions every day, probably dozens worldwide

I guess in the grand scheme of doing things, last Sunday's "return to gate" was a blip compared to the incidents you listed above...



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5041 posts, RR: 43
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4187 times:

I know this sounds like an Alberta-sized load of bullpucky, but I think you would be surprised how very seriously Air Canada takes the care and safety of its passengers. Had the aircraft taken off, then your partner experienced this extreme pain the aircraft would have returned and landed as quickly as safely able.

The cost? Doesn't matter! Period.

Last summer, I had a medical diversion with a very ill passenger. Luckily we had a physician on board. (My partner as a matter of fact! LOL) His diagnosis? The survival of this passenger is directly proportional to how fast you can get him to a hospital.

I am very proud that only 18 minutes after this decision was made, he was under the care of an Emergency Response Team on the ground.

Naturally I had a boat load of reports to write ... part of my job. I was included in a chain of emails that queried and congratulated every department of the airline that was involved. And everyone .... everyone ... was overjoyed at the full recovery of this passenger. No one second guessed the need nor the cost of the diversion, and trust me ... this time it was expensive!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5041 posts, RR: 43
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4161 times:

Quoting rikkus67 (Thread starter):
Air Canada AC546 from YYC to LAS

Because I know they would want to know ....

... I just emailed the Captain, First Officer, Service Director and three Flight Attendants that your partner is making a full (albeit painful) recovery. Sometimes it doesn't get back to the crew.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1880 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4142 times:

How was there pressurization when you hadn't left the ground yet?


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5041 posts, RR: 43
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4126 times:

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 9):
How was there pressurization when you hadn't left the ground yet?

Most aircraft, (in this case an A320), pre-pressurizes once the doors close and the engines are started. This makes the transition from ground to air mode smoother.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25626 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4073 times:

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 6):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
There are many medical diversions every day, probably dozens worldwide

I guess in the grand scheme of doing things, last Sunday's "return to gate" was a blip compared to the incidents you listed above...

There are also many medical emergencies that don't involve diversions, usually where it happens when they're already close to the destination, or on the ground before takeoff. Those below involving Canada are all since February 1.

At approximately eight miles final ACA692, Air Canada Embraer E-190, enroute from Toronto (CYYZ) to St. John's (CYYT), declared a medical emergency. The fire hall and ambulance responded, meeting the aircraft at the gate.

ACA686, Air Canada Embraer E-190, enroute from Montreal (CYUL) to Halifax (CYHZ), reported a medical emergency (passenger) and requested an ambulance. The request was coordinated through the Halifax Control Tower.

While descending inbound to Winnipeg from Toronto, ACA273, Airbus A320 reported a medical emergency and advised company had arranged ERS to be waiting at the gate. ACA273 arrived Winnipeg at 0636z.

ACA123, Air Canada Airbus A319 from Toronto to Edmonton declared a medical emergency due to an unconscious passenger. Ambulance required for arrival. Aircraft continued to destination without further incident. No impact to operations.

ACA165, Air Canada Airbus A319 from Montreal to Calgary requested and was granted priority handling due to medical emergency.

WJA696, Westjet B737-600 declared a medical emergency en route from Edmonton to Winnipeg. Aircraft landed at 15:12z. No impact on operations.

Air Transat Airbus A330-200 (operating as TSC769) was on a scheduled IFR flight from Punta Cana, Dominican Republic (MDPC) to Toronto (CYYZ). TSC769 reported a medical emergency. Agencies advised and aircraft landed on runway 05 and was given priority to the gate.

Air Canada Embraer E-190 (operating as ACA128) was on a scheduled IFR flight from Calgary (CYYC) to Toronto (CYYZ). Approximately 50 NM on a bearing of 200 degrees from Sault. Ste. Marie (CYAM), the flight crew reported a medical emergency in progress. They requested a more direct route to Toronto. The Area Controller was able to accommodate the request. The flight crew made their own arrangements for EMS upon arrival. The aircraft landed without further incident.

Air Canada Jazz Boeing 757-200 (operating as JZA3043) had completed a scheduled IFR flight from Curacao, Netherlands Antilles (TNCC) to Toronto (CYYZ). The aircraft was holding for a gate when the flight crew advised the Ground Controller of an unspecified medical emergency. The Ground Controller and Apron Controller coordinated and an open gate was found for JZA3043 to park at.

Westjet Boeing 737-800 (operating as flight WJA1118) was preparing to depart on a scheduled IFR flight from Toronto (CYYZ) to Las Vegas (KLAS). The aircraft had just started to taxi out (at 0205Z) for runway 23 when the flight crew advised that they needed to return to the ramp due to a medical situation. The flight crew requested that medics meet the aircraft at the gate.

Air Canada Embraer E-190 (operating as ACA1863) was concluding a scheduled IFR flight from Montego Bay, Jamaica (MKJS) to Ottawa (CYOW). Prior to landing, the flight crew declared to ATC that they had a medical emergency involving a passenger.

Canjet Airlines Boeing 737-800 (operating as CJA863) was concluding a scheduled IFR flight from Montego Bay, Jamaica (MKJS) to Ottawa (CYOW). As the aircraft commenced the approach, the flight crew reported a medical emergency with a passenger on board. The aircraft landed without further incident on runway 25.

Air Canada Jazz CRJ705 (operating as JZA8669) was conducting a scheduled IFR flight from Boston (KBOS) to Toronto (CYYZ). The flight crew declared a medical emergency with Cleveland Center. Toronto ATC gave the aircraft priority. The flight crew made their own EMS arrangements and the aircraft landed without incident.

Westjet Boeing 737-600 (operating as flight WJA314) was on a scheduled IFR flight from Calgary (CYYC) to Kitchener/Waterloo (CYKF). NAV CANADA staff at Toronto ACC reported that at 2152Z, the West High Specialty (Centralia) controller received information from Cleveland Center that WJA314 had declared a medical emergency and was proceeding direct to their intended destination. The flight crew advised that they had made their own arrangements. The aircraft landed without incident at 2218Z.

Westjet Boeing 737-700 (operating as flight WJA2729) was on a scheduled IFR flight from La Romana, Dominican Republic (MDLR) to Toronto (CYYZ). The flight crew reported a medical emergency on board. Greater Toronto Airports Authority (G.T.A.A.) Airport Operations Control Centre (A.O.C.C.) staff advised.

Air Canada Airbus A319 operating as flight ACA1854) was taxiing out in preparation for departure on a scheduled IFR flight from Toronto (CYYZ) to Cayo Coco, Cuba (MUCC). NAV CANADA staff at Toronto Tower reported that at 1145Z, the flight crew advised the Ground Controller that they needed to return to the gate due to a medical situation and requested that paramedics meet the aircraft there.

Delta Air Lines Airbus A330-300 (operating as flight DAL251) was on a scheduled IFR flight from Amsterdam (EHAM) to Detroit (KDTW). NAV CANADA staff reported that at 1421Z, the flight crew requested priority handling for a medical condition on board. They also requested that paramedics meet them at Gate 54 (at Detroit). The aircraft was cleared direct to DXO. Cleveland ARTCC staff were advised.

Air Canada Embraer E-190 (operating as flight ACA540) was on a scheduled IFR flight from Seattle-Tacoma (KSEA) to Toronto (CYYZ). The flight crew reported a medical emergency when the aircraft was in the vicinity of ECK. Priority handling was given. The aircraft landed on runway 06L at 2012Z and was expedited to the gate.

Westjet Boeing 737-700 (operating as flight WJA659) was on a scheduled IFR flight from Toronto (CYYZ) to Thunder Bay (CYQT). The aircraft was en-route when the flight crew advised of a medical emergency and requested priority landing at their intended destination. Thunder Bay tower staff confirmed that EMS would be waiting at the gate. The aircraft landed at 0410Z.

Air Canada Airbus A320 (operating as flight ACA903) was on a scheduled IFR flight from Tampa (KTPA) to Toronto (CYYZ). The flight crew declared a medical emergency at 2240Z and the aircraft was given priority. The aircraft landed on runway 24R at 2253Z without incident and taxied to the gate.

Air Canada Airbus A320 (operating as flight ACA979) had just landed after a scheduled IFR flight from Nassau, Bahamas (MYNN) to Toronto (CYYZ). The aircraft landed on runway 33L at 2134Z. NAV CANADA staff at Toronto Tower reported that while taxiing for Gate 167, the flight crew declared a medical emergency at 2139Z. The aircraft was expedited to the gate.

Air Canada Boeing 767-300 operating as flight ACA56, IFR Kahului, Hawaii (PHOG) to Vancouver (CYVR), declared a medical emergency with Seattle ARTCC who informed Vancouver air traffic control. The flight landed safely on runway 08R at 1240Z.

Air Canada Boeing 767-300, flight ACA004, IFR Tokyo Narita to Vancouver reported a medical emergency 200 nm NW of Vancouver at 1840Z. Landed at 1920Z.

ExpressJet Airlines, Inc. Embraer EMB-145ER (operating as Continental Express flight BTA2511) had just landed after a scheduled IFR flight from Newark (KEWR) to Toronto (CYYZ). The aircraft landed on runway 24R at 1830Z. Upon exiting the runway, the flight crew advised the Ground Controller of an on-board medical emergency. All agencies were notified.

Cathay Pacific Airways Boeing 777-300, flight CPA889, IFR New York (KJFK) to Vancouver (CYVR), downwind for Runway 08R reported a medical emergency. Ambulance called. Flight landed without incident.

Westjet flight WJA257, a Boeing 737-700, IFR Calgary (CYYC) to Kelowna (CYLW), declared a medical emergency with the Vancouver area control centre (ACC). The crew requested an ambulance to meet the aircraft at the gate. Airport Rescue and Fire Fighting (ARFF) responded.

CRJ705, flight JZA7745, operated by Air Canada Jazz, was on an IFR flight from Newark (KEWR) to Montreal (CYUL). As the aircraft was flying south of Plattsburgh, New York, inbound for Montreal, the crew informed the control centre that one of the pilots was sick and declared an emergency. The aircraft landed without further incident on runway 06L.

ACA945, Air Canada Airbus A320, was on an IFR flight from Orlando (KMCO) to Montréal (CYUL). While the aircraft was flying over the St-Hubert (CYHU) region, the crew declared a medical emergency due to the health of one of the passengers. The aircraft landed without incident on Runway 24R at 2110Z.


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13138 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4033 times:

Here is a question: What if the person who causes a medical diversion has a medical problem due to their own fault? Examples could include the excessive use of alcohol or legal drugs, the use of illegal drugs, or in the case of a pregant woman, who lied as to how close to giving birth they were and had the child on board and had complications. Of course, there is the public relations issues as to going after such persons which may be more than the costs of the diversion or delay, but where does the line get drawn?

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25626 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3942 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 12):
Here is a question: What if the person who causes a medical diversion has a medical problem due to their own fault? Examples could include the excessive use of alcohol or legal drugs, the use of illegal drugs, or in the case of a pregant woman, who lied as to how close to giving birth they were and had the child on board and had complications. Of course, there is the public relations issues as to going after such persons which may be more than the costs of the diversion or delay, but where does the line get drawn?

The only times I've heard of passengers being required to reimburse the airline is when flights divert due to unruly passengers, such as the following BA flight LHR-PHX in 2007 that diverted to YWG. In addition to a $2,000 fine, the passenger was ordered to reimburse BA about $15,000 to offset the cost of the diversion.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito.../2007/03/09/drunken-passenger.html


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6722 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3832 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
AFR636, Air France Boeing 777-200, enroute from Paris (LFPG) to Houston (KIAH), declared a medical emergency and requested to divert to St. John’s (CYYT). The aircraft was cleared to 30,000 ft. and direct to St. John’s. A fuel dump commenced at 15:10Z until 15:22Z on a track YYT/020R. The aircraft landed at 15:53Z without further incident.

An example that must have been costly, dumping fuel, then having to fuel the plane again ! BTW, would the airport of diversion charge landing fees ?



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25626 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3776 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 14):
would the airport of diversion charge landing fees ?

I'm sure they do. Airports like Gander, Goose Bay, St. John's and Halifax handle many diverted flights. It's no doubt a significant revenue source for their handling agents and fuel suppliers etc.


User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1660 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3683 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 8):
Because I know they would want to know ....

... I just emailed the Captain, First Officer, Service Director and three Flight Attendants that your partner is making a full (albeit painful) recovery. Sometimes it doesn't get back to the crew.

Thanks Longhauler. I'm still playing partial nursemaid. He is still in quite a bit of discomfort, but has cut down considerably on the pain meds given after surgery. Spasming is common with Kidney Stones days after the initial attack....I am sure anyone who has experienced it...without initially being in a pressurized tube, can understand.

On a more pleasant note, could you please extend my partner Grant L's most humble acknowledgement and thanks, to everyone who assisted him on the flight and on the ground. He was very impressed and grateful by the compassion and professionalism of everyone involved from AC. For that matter, so am I.

The next fun process will be filling out the lengthy form / doctors report for fitness to fly, that has to be sent back to AC!



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
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