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AI 787 Routes  
User currently offlineJoyA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 504 posts, RR: 1
Posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 8329 times:

Which will be the routes served by the AI 787 when they are delivered in Mid 2011?

AI 787 VT-ANA after paintjob  

Im guessing BOM/DEL- ORD/EWR as usual as well as YYZ/IAD/LAX/NRT

Regds


If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2975 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 8322 times:

The B787s that will come in the last qurter of 2011 will be used on the following routes.

1 aircraft: BOM - DXB/SIN
1 aircraft: DEL - DXB/SIN
2 aircrafts: DEL - MEL

and the last 1 -2 frames will be used to replace some B777-200LR routes (NRT, PVG, CDG, FRA, DEL - LHR)

ORD, YYZ, JFK will remain a B77W and BOM - EWR will too go to a B77W soon.

[Edited 2011-03-10 22:29:20]


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 8269 times:

Any one know the likely cabin layout for AI 787s? Is it two or three class?

User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2975 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 8247 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 2):
Any one know the likely cabin layout for AI 787s? Is it two or three class?

It's going to be without First Class.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 8219 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 3):
It's going to be without First Class.

Good move.

I assume the J seats then be lie-flat for some of the aircraft that will be deployed on long haul routes. Will there be another configuration without the lie-flat J seats for regional routes?


User currently offlineJoyA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 504 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8063 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 1):
2 aircrafts: DEL - MEL

Why MEL and not SYD?

Quoting ojas (Reply 3):
It's going to be without First Class.

Agree

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 4):
I assume the J seats then be lie-flat

Maybe they'll use the herringbone layout of the business class similar to 9W 330s and T7s



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2889 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7901 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 4):
I assume the J seats then be lie-flat for some of the aircraft that will be deployed on long haul routes.

They will be the exact same seats that are found in the 77L and 77W in a 2x2x2 layout

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 2):

Any one know the likely cabin layout for AI 787s?

IIRC 236 seats -- but this was the proposed configuration in 2005/6 when the order was placed, since then things have changes, however there will be no change in the product [IFE and seats] which is unfortunate

Karan


User currently offlineBoeing747_600 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7545 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 1):

2 aircrafts: DEL - MEL
Quoting JoyA380B747 (Reply 5):
Why MEL and not SYD?

Oh Please guys! Enough with this madness! AI will NOT be operating any routes to Australia for the foreseeable future!

Three routes that would make a LOT of sense with a 787 would be non-stop DEL/BOM - IAH/ ATL/ MIA even 3x weekly. At IAH, the N/S feature could make a sizeable dent into the markets of EK, QR and all the European carriers.

Do EK and/or QR serve either ATL or MIA ?


User currently offlineac033 From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2008, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7522 times:

Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 7):
Oh Please guys! Enough with this madness! AI will NOT be operating any routes to Australia for the foreseeable future!

Maybe i ask why? Because it make total sense that they operate into MEL or SYD


User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12466 posts, RR: 37
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7508 times:

Quoting JoyA380B747 (Reply 5):
Maybe they'll use the herringbone layout of the business class similar to 9W 330s and T7s

Please, NO!!

Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 7):
Oh Please guys! Enough with this madness! AI will NOT be operating any routes to Australia for the foreseeable future!

Didn't they recently announce that they would be launching the DXB-MEL route?

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 6):
IIRC 236 seats

Seems a bit on the low side; that would be about right for a 763, but the 788 is considerably bigger; I'd expect to see about 260-280.


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7487 times:

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 6):
They will be the exact same seats that are found in the 77L and 77W in a 2x2x2 layout

Thanks. So no regional layout for any of the 787s.

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 6):
IIRC 236 seats -- but this was the proposed configuration in 2005/6 when the order was placed, since then things have changes

Any idea as to the split? 36 J and 200 Y?


User currently offlineplanecrazy20 From Kuwait, joined Jun 2008, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7397 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 10):
Didn't they recently announce that they would be launching the DXB-MEL route?

im guessing you mean DEL-MEL ?


User currently offlineN867DA From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1008 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7356 times:

Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 7):
Do EK and/or QR serve either ATL or MIA ?

Neither airline serves ATL. I would be very surprised if there is sufficient local demand for AI, EK, or QR to begin service to Atlanta. The only way to make the route financially viable is through a codeshare with DL to funnel passengers from across the Southeast through ATL.



A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6140 posts, RR: 23
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7248 times:

On the subject of AI. What ever happened to the launch of SFO. Wasn't there a statement by the CEO that they planned SFO soon?


"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7603 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7215 times:

Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 7):
Three routes that would make a LOT of sense with a 787 would be non-stop DEL/BOM - IAH/ ATL/ MIA even 3x weekly.

The local market isnt there for ATL or MIA.

The local market is there for IAH or DFW, but the yields are trash. They would be better off making sure they have service to LAX, SFO, and IAD nonstop from Indian before venturing elsewhere in the US.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26978 posts, RR: 57
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7174 times:

Funny enough in todays UK Guardian there is a double page pull out and it shows an AI B787 in production ! Looking good.  

User currently offlinegoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6705 times:

Will ANA bring them to SFO from NRT? HND?


From the airport with love
User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6140 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6287 times:

Quoting goblin211 (Reply 16):

Not from what has been posted here on A.net. The configuration isn't well suited for the high biz demand of SFO. I think the only way we see NH 787 here is with a NGO-SFO flight.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2889 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4590 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 9):
Seems a bit on the low side; that would be about right for a 763, but the 788 is considerably bigger; I'd expect to see about 260-280
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 10):
ny idea as to the split? 36 J and 200 Y

Guys as i said, i read the report in 2005 when the order was placed , but i dont recollect it being more than 260 either it was 236 or 256,

Karan


User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4407 times:

The configuration is 20J + 220Y i.e. 240 seater B 788.

As for IFE, it will have them as do their current A 319s.

The routes slated for B 788 flights are CDG/NRT/SIN/HKG/PVG/ICN/MEL/DXB initially.

With 20 such aircraft on order, one can also expect future flights to MAN, BHX, Italy and SYD being operated by this aircraft type.


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4316 times:

Quoting behramjee (Reply 19):
The configuration is 20J + 220Y i.e. 240 seater B 788.

Here's some actual Air France data on 2 class A332 and how it would translate to B788 in a similar configuration:
AF A332 2 Class Example # Seats
J Class 61" Lie Flat 21.5" Wide 7 rows 40 seats
Y class 32" Pitch 18" Wide 8-abreast 24 rows 179 seats
Total Seats 219

AF B788 2 Class Example # Seats(Projected based on above configuration with 8-abreast inY)
J Class 61" Lie Flat 21.5" Wide 7 rows 40 seats
Y class 32" Pitch 18" Wide 8-abreast 23 rows 171 seats
Total Seats 211

AF B788 2 Class Example # Seats(Projected based on above configuration with 9-abreast inY)
J Class 61" Lie Flat 21.5" Wide 7 rows 40 seats
Y class 32" Pitch 18" Wide 9-abreast 23 rows 194 seats
Total Seats 234

Assuming AI's layout is with 9-abreast Y, with just 20 J, AI should be able to offer 240-250 seats in Y.

Assuming AI's layout is with 8-abreast Y, with just 20 J, AI should be able to offer 210-220 seats in Y.

Does anyone know if it is 8 or 9 abreast in Y?


User currently offlineBoeing747_600 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4175 times:

Quoting ac033 (Reply 8):
Maybe i ask why? Because it make total sense that they operate into MEL or SYD

Only if the objective is to lose money on a route that from which even QF walked away. Yes I know that was SYD-BOM, but it's not much different in terms of market. Frankly, the notion that AI will make a profit on DEL-MEL when QF couldn't on SYD-BOM, is laughable. Yes again, I know that the QF flight had a fuel stopover in Darwin, but if this was that profitable a route, they could've found ways to operate it N/S.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 9):
Didn't they recently announce that they would be launching the DXB-MEL route?

Yes. They also announced DEL-SFO, which makes more sense, only to pull out and by the way, AI did recently announce that they're shelving any DEL-MEL plans for the forseeable future.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 14):
The local market isnt there for ATL or MIA.

Well just because DL couldn't make ATL-BOM work doesn't necessarily mean that AI doesn't have a shot. I agree that MIA may be more iffy.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 14):

The local market is there for IAH or DFW, but the yields are trash. They would be better off making sure they have service to LAX, SFO, and IAD nonstop from Indian before venturing elsewhere in the US.

While LAX, SFO and IAD may be higher priorities, why would the yields on a DEL/BOM - IAH (forget DFW) route be trash?! If the market exists as you concede, you could have high enough load factors to turn a decent profit. I dare say that there will be quite a bit of demand for business class as well.

I any case, no matter how you slice and dice it, just about any of the aforementioned US destinations makes a heck of a lot more sense that MEL or SYD for AI.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7603 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4026 times:

Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 21):
While LAX, SFO and IAD may be higher priorities, why would the yields on a DEL/BOM - IAH (forget DFW) route be trash?! If the market exists as you concede, you could have high enough load factors to turn a decent profit. I dare say that there will be quite a bit of demand for business class as well.

I any case, no matter how you slice and dice it, just about any of the aforementioned US destinations makes a heck of a lot more sense that MEL or SYD for AI.

India is not really an oil destination from Houston, its a VFR destination. In fact, most business ties to India from Texas come from the telecom and IT companies based in North Texas. Also I might add, there are more Indians and South Asians in Dallas than Houston, as of 2008:

Indians Alone

New York CSA: 566,039
Bay Area CSA: 208,854
Chicago CSA: 163,414
Los Angeles CSA: 141,395
Washington CSA: 139,845
Dallas-Fort Worth CSA: 83,055
Houston CSA: 76,574
Boston CSA: 71,937
Atlanta CSA: 66,618
Detroit CSA: 63,340
Sacramento CSA: 42,168
Seattle CSA: 39,481
Orlando CSA: 26,455
Twin Cities CSA: 25,757
Raleigh Durham CSA: 20,714

South Asians (Indians, Afghanistanis, and Pakistanis)

New York CSA: 662,927 (3.0% of the population)
Bay Area CSA: 218,860 (3.0% of the population)
Chicago CSA: 183,356 (1.9% of the population)
Los Angeles CSA: 163,061 (0.9% of the population)
Washington DC CSA: 159,818 (1.9% of the population)
Dallas CSA: 96,717 (1.5% of the population)
Houston CSA: 95,569 (1.7% of the population)
Philadelphia CSA: 85,182 (1.3% of the population)
Boston CSA: 77,995 (1.0% of the population)
Detroit CSA: 73,962 (1.3% of the population)
Atlanta CSA: 72,858 (1.3% of the population)
Miami MSA: 46,403 (0.08% of the population)
Sacramento CSA: 46,365 (1.9% of the population)
Seattle CSA: 41,607 (1.0% of the population)
Phoenix MSA: 29,046 (0.05% of the population)
San Diego MSA: 21,024 (0.06% of the population)

Notice the big gap between Los Angeles, DC, and DFW/Houston. They should be given prioirty. Im sure if if AI starts service to Texas, they will pick Houston because of the alliance ties, but DFW has more actually ties to India. Atlanta and Miami shouldnt even be considered.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineInitious From Singapore, joined Dec 2008, 1063 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3927 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 1):
1 aircraft: BOM - DXB/SIN
1 aircraft: DEL - DXB/SIN

It's coming to Singapore on the first route? Cool!



One way I will fly around the world!
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11655 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3871 times:

Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 21):
Only if the objective is to lose money on a route that from which even QF walked away. Yes I know that was SYD-BOM, but it's not much different in terms of market. Frankly, the notion that AI will make a profit on DEL-MEL when QF couldn't on SYD-BOM, is laughable.
Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 21):
Well just because DL couldn't make ATL-BOM work doesn't necessarily mean that AI doesn't have a shot. I agree that MIA may be more iffy.

Do you see any hypocrisy there? DEL and BOM are hardly the same either in context, and recently AI reconfirmed their plans to serve MEL now they have a reasonably reliable delivery date for the aircraft slated to operate it.



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
25 VIDP : I think you have forgotten that DEL is now far ahead in terms of passengers handled and aircraft movements when compared with BOM. Infact MEL might t
26 gr8circle : Thanks for the population breakdown.....however, Afghanistan is not a part of S.Asia......that should include only India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and P
27 LAXdude1023 : My bad. Those are the correct numbers, I just thought it also included Afghanistan.
28 zkojh : add to the route's planned AKL as well.
29 kiwiandrew : Really ? Do you have a source for that ?
30 MAH4546 : Miami-Bombay and Dallas-Bombay are virtually the same exact size local market. But Dallas-Delhi is double the size local market of Miami-Delhi and Da
31 LAXdude1023 : Really? That was different a couple of years ago. But, if thats the case, Atlanta would be the place (if any) to launch a nonstop to India. Given tha
32 Boeing747_600 : which means absolutely nothing. AI is notorious for putting the cart WAY ahead of the horse in all their announcements. Can you give me a rough estim
33 kiwiandrew : Surely that would depend on what fares the market will allow them to charge ?
34 Boeing747_600 : Lets go with what the market currently allows EK to charge on IAH-BOM via DXB.
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