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Outraged Customers Jam Southwest Phone Lines  
User currently offlinemcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1448 posts, RR: 17
Posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 19679 times:

Another article concerning issues at Southwest

http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2011...est-airlines/?mod=google_news_blog

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 19122 times:

Seems like a lot of it is they haven't invested enough in a good website.

User currently offlinemacsog6 From Singapore, joined Jan 2010, 525 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 18951 times:
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Quoting cschleic (Reply 1):
Seems like a lot of it is they haven't invested enough in a good website.

Last night (10 March) I needed to change a flight from OAK-RNO from a Monday to the preceeding Friday.

I went to the website to do so and was told it could not be accomplished. During this time I noticed that the website will not remember my previous log-in's, my FF point status is inaccurate, and my A-List status is also wrong.

I tried several times to get the website to work, finally giving up in desperation.

I then called the toll free number and was told the wait time was bretween 21 and 30 minutes. As I was working on something, I just left the speakerphone on and continued working. 104 minutes later, a CSR answered and said they were very busy but quickly and cheerfully chnaged my ticket, cost an extra $20 or so.

It seems to be that WN blew the FF program change rather signifiicantly, has a web site that is not functional and inaccurate, and needs to ramp up their call capacity rather quickly. For a carrier who runs flight operations as well as WN seems to do so, their functionality in IT and Customer Care needs a rapid, major overhaul.



Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3008 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 18773 times:

Quoting macsog6 (Reply 2):
It seems to be that WN blew the FF program change rather signifiicantly, has a web site that is not functional and inaccurate, and needs to ramp up their call capacity rather quickly. For a carrier who runs flight operations as well as WN seems to do so, their functionality in IT and Customer Care needs a rapid, major overhaul.

I really want WN to do well (esp at my home airport where they start service in 2 days), but recent events do lead one to wonder. I think they need to bring the Herbster back to shake things up & kick some butt!



Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlinemcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1448 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 18389 times:

This gives credence to the plane business banter blog about WN not joining bag fees due to IT issues. She mentioned they had serious IT problems several months ago.

User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2072 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18198 times:

Quoting mcdu (Reply 4):
She mentioned they had serious IT problems several months ago.
WN has been having serious IT problems for more than a few months. For several years they've had IT issues. I'm not sure if the IT issues I've seen would have any affect on bag fees or whatnot, but their front end website issues have been awful for at least a year or more.

The lack of any acknowledgment from WN about their website issues the last few weeks is concerning. I expected some hiccups with the RR 2.0 transition. That's normal. I didn't expect a full scale meltdown.

[Edited 2011-03-11 11:25:59]

User currently offlinemcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1448 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18043 times:

Quoting chrisair (Reply 5):
I'm not sure if the IT issues I've seen would have any affect on bag fees or whatnot, but their front end website issues have been awful for at least a year or more.

The jist of the blog by Holly was that WN would have joined the bag fee club to cash in on ancillary revenue like all the other carriers. The only problem was the segment pricing scheme they use made it almost impossible to bag fee a bag on one of the numerous hop flights across the country. Her explanation was that each time the bag changed planes the system would want to charge a fee. WN did a good job of turning that negative around and spinning it as a positive in the press with "bags fly free" program. Personally I believe much of what is happening to WN may just be airline karma. They have gone out of their way to poke at the other carriers and try to spin their status as the underdog and savior of all things with wings. The cheesy and camp ads they have ran in the past several months are part of their problem in my opinion.


User currently offlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 17989 times:
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Quoting mcdu (Reply 6):
Personally I believe much of what is happening to WN may just be airline karma.

Are you kidding? Their RPM's are up over 13% in the first two months of this year------that is not karma but passengers voting with their feet.


User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2072 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 17850 times:

Quoting mcdu (Reply 6):
They have gone out of their way to poke at the other carriers and try to spin their status as the underdog and savior of all things with wings.

Are you saying all other airlines are perfect companies that can do no wrong?


User currently offlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 17763 times:

Quoting mcdu (Reply 6):
They have gone out of their way to poke at the other carriers and try to spin their status

The way United spun their on-time rate percentage to ONLY count the global carriers excluding the LCC and whatnot? That's totally spinning so WN is not the only one.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3811 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 16503 times:

From WN's website:

Quote:
Your 3rd through 9th bag or item will incur a charge of $50 per piece, and any bag or item thereafter will be $110 per piece.

Weight and Size Allowance:

Maximum weight is 50 pounds and maximum size is 62 inches (length + width + height) per checked piece of luggage. Effective June 17, 2009, overweight items from 50 to 100 pounds and oversized items in excess of 62 inches but not more than 80 inches (e.g.; surfboards, bicycles, vaulting poles) will be accepted for a charge of $50 per item.
Quoting mcdu (Reply 6):
The jist of the blog by Holly was that WN would have joined the bag fee club to cash in on ancillary revenue like all the other carriers. The only problem was the segment pricing scheme they use made it almost impossible to bag fee a bag on one of the numerous hop flights across the country. Her explanation was that each time the bag changed planes the system would want to charge a fee.

If that's the case, (and I'm not disputing the Plane Business Banter blog) I wonder how they are able to charge for excess & overweight baggage now.

LoneStarMike


User currently offlineMikelive From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 16463 times:

I recently had to first change a reservation and then cancel it via WN's website and had absolutely no issues doing either. I've had nothing but great experiences with it.

/no, I'm not an employee of WN.

 


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5174 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 16378 times:

My wife is an IT project manager. So, I'm assuming that not only did the changes that were planned not get installed properly, but they didn't plan to back out of the changes to what was running before, causing the problems.

User currently offlineSJC4Me From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 373 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 15885 times:

I hope WN hasn't jumped the shark.


Unable.
User currently offlinetozairport From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 682 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 14228 times:

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 9):
The way United spun their on-time rate percentage to ONLY count the global carriers excluding the LCC and whatnot? That's totally spinning so WN is not the only one.

Umm, United's on-time stats were WAY better than WN's and even Valujets's (sorry, "Air Tran"). I don't think there was any spin involved. I think United was just trying to keep it an apples to apples comparison. They probably should have included the LCC's. It would have made them look better.



Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
User currently offlinegoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 13680 times:

What they should do is stop messing around with mergers and focus more on customer service first. Just b/c an airline will merge doesn't mean it'll be successful. That's up to the customers and it seems like WN is just trying to suck up to the people who fly business instead of the more important things!


From the airport with love
User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1624 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 13414 times:

Quoting macsog6 (Reply 2):
For a carrier who runs flight operations as well as WN seems to do so, their functionality in IT and Customer Care needs a rapid, major overhaul.

Reminds me of when I worked in the land of Orange Aprons. Their DOS based ordering system was designed for a total capacity of 200 stores. At the time, they had 1600+....and continued to band-aid the system for years after I left.



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11517 times:

Quoting tozairport (Reply 14):

Umm, United's on-time stats were WAY better than WN's and even Valujets's (sorry, "Air Tran"). I don't think there was any spin involved. I think United was just trying to keep it an apples to apples comparison. They probably should have included the LCC's. It would have made them look better.

Whether they were better or not is not the point. UA spun it to exclude certain other carriers to ensure they came out on top. The top 3 of 2009 arrival rates was..

Highest On-Time Arrival Rates

1. Hawaiian Airlines – 87.0 percent

2. Alaska Airlines – 84.0 percent

3. United Airlines – 77.3 percent

Source: http://www.bts.gov/press_releases/2010/dot027_10/html/dot027_10.html

Oh Look, all of a sudden United is now at the bottom of the 3...that doesn't look so good now. Lets exclude HA and AS since they are not global and now..we are Number 1. That's why they didn't include the LCC and non-global it WOULD have made them look bad. Direct, and Blatant and Obvious Spin. Period.

Quoting goblin211 (Reply 15):
What they should do is stop messing around with mergers and focus more on customer service first. Just b/c an airline will merge doesn't mean it'll be successful. That's up to the customers and it seems like WN is just trying to suck up to the people who fly business instead of the more important things!

I am sorry but what was the point of saying this? Messing around with Mergers? You realize this is only the THIRD merger in their entire airline history, compared to quite a few more at other airlines.

Your statement rings true for every airline trying to merger or merging now, not WN specific.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlinejunction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11198 times:

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 17):
Lets exclude HA and AS since they are not global and now..we are Number 1.


Exactly. How useful is it to compare on time statistics of an airline that only flys routes to Hawaii or Seattle with one that flies from 10 hubs all over the world? That's the real spin. It's also useless for government statistics to still call any airline that makes only $1 billion a year in revenue a "major carrier." They've been using that figure for over 30 years and it gives the false impression the likes of ExpressJet are as large as Southwest.


User currently offlineJayDub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10603 times:

Quoting tozairport (Reply 14):
Umm, United's on-time stats were WAY better than WN's and even Valujets's (sorry, "Air Tran"). I don't think there was any spin involved.

There is absolutely spin involved.

If United (or, for that matter, any other carrier that uses regional carriers to feed their hubs) were forced to include the on-time performance of their sub-carriers, those performance stats would be a little bit less attractive. Part of the reason that UA is able to achieve decent on-time performance is the fact that they sub their CTD's during Ground Delay Programs to benefit the mainline and completely screw their United Express operators.

If the average delay during an ORD GDP is advertised as 30 minutes, you better believe that the average delay for a United Express flight is 45-75 minutes. That kind of delay is, oftentimes, is impossible to recover from (without a cancellation, at least). UA are absolutely within their rights to use this practice, however, On-Time DOT stats should include sub-carriers to properly portray the performance of the brand.


User currently offlinetozairport From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 682 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9117 times:

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 17):
Oh Look, all of a sudden United is now at the bottom of the 3...that doesn't look so good now. Lets exclude HA and AS since they are not global and now..we are Number 1. That's why they didn't include the LCC and non-global it WOULD have made them look bad. Direct, and Blatant and Obvious Spin. Period.

Airline On-Time Arrival Percentage: Jan-Nov 2010
Carrier On-Time Arrival Percentage:
1 Hawaiian 92.91
2 Alaska 88.17
3 United 85.34
4 Mesa 83.70
5 US Airways 83.43
6 AirTran 82.91
7 Continental 82.32
8 Frontier 81.82
9 Southwest 80.59
10 SkyWest 80.39
11 Atlantic Southeast 80.08
12 Pinnacle 79.60
13 American 79.54
14 ExpressJet 78.30
15 Delta 78.02
16 JetBlue 77.36
17 American Eagle 77.33
18 Comair 74.06
All Airlines 80.50
Source: Bureau of Transportation Statistics

Oh look, United is now #3 out of 16. I suppose they look a lot better now. Your arguments are so whacked that they would make the Aflak's duck head explode. Even if you included Skywest and ASA in the mix then UAL's ontime rate would have been much better than Southwest. They should have included the "LCC". That would have put them ahead of EVERY LCC out there. What part of this are you not getting? Plus you used numbers from only DEC 2010, but did not include WN's numbers. What kind of position is that??????

Quoting JayDub (Reply 19):
There is absolutely spin involved.

See above. You are wrong. Simple as that.



Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2072 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8636 times:

Quoting tozairport (Reply 23):
See above. You are wrong. Simple as that.

I think you missed the point of atrude777's post.....


User currently offlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5416 times:

Quoting tozairport (Reply 23):

Airline On-Time Arrival Percentage: Jan-Nov 2010

Wrong Date...2009 is when UA came out that Global Ranking, so I used that date.

Not 2010.

Quoting tozairport (Reply 23):
Plus you used numbers from only DEC 2010

No I did not, I was using December 2009 because that is the year UA used when they first came out with the Global Marketing ad.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 24):

I think you missed the point of atrude777's post.....

Agreed, he totally missed my post, that aflac duck he used against me just flew way over his head.

You still totally just proved my post correct either way.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlinetozairport From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 682 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5030 times:

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 22):

Wrong Date...2009 is when UA came out that Global Ranking, so I used that date.

Not 2010.

OK, my bad. So you used really outdated data. Would WN's ranking relative to UA's be any different? If UA placed last as number 3, then where would Southwest be? It's not spin if the facts they are not showing would have made them look even better! Even if the on-time stats include express then we would still be on top of every major airline and every LCC with the possible exception of Frontier. Anyway, this is starting to drift away from the thread's actual topic, which deals with Southwest's other numerous customer service issues. We should probably just talk about those and not their inability to arrive on time.



Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
User currently onlineytib From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 568 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4943 times:

Quoting tozairport (Reply 20):
Oh look, United is now #3 out of 16.

Not true. United mainline flights are #3, however as the on-time statistics do not include international flights and those of regional partners (over 50% of flights on United) it is not a true comparison. This is not the fault of United, but the DOT and how the numbers are handled. The fact United only included worldwide carriers is spin as data includes domestic flights.

I have flown UA and WN in the past few months on evening flights. One thing I noticed between the two is that UA won't hold aircraft in most instances and WN does in most instances for connecting flights. This can be an issue if heading westbound in the winter and fighting the winds the whole way and flights are late.


25 hiflyer : Since the thread is supposed to be about WN's IT issues a question would be what have they announced they are doing to correct it? Is there a new syst
26 Atlwest1 : FL has a vastly superior IT infastructre then WN and its not even at full capacity.
27 Post contains images hiflyer : So...if Holly was even partially right and WN couldn't charge because of IT what would be cheaper...redoing their whole IT or buy a carrier with a go
28 LoneStarMike : I mentioned this earlier in the thread but no one responded. If WN can't charge for the first or second bag due to IT issues, how is it that they are
29 mcdu : If you were on board the UA flight and it departed on-time how would you know whether or not UA was waiting for connecting passengers or not? Do you
30 EA CO AS : Ontime performance is ontime performance, period. Although it's hard to seriously lump HA in the mix when the majority of the airports they serve nev
31 GALLEYSTEW : 12 years ago...........I was living in Las Vegas. I had a friend who flew from PHX to LAS on SWA. I went to McCarren to pick her up..........the SWA I
32 airlinenut : I think WN uses a different way to calculate their flight departure/arrival times than other airlines. If you look at flykci.com their flights always
33 atrude777 : WN has ACARS they don't "self-report" As far as I know, even when I worked there, I am not sure what you meant by blocked in...but the order we saw it
34 PI4EVER : Due to "unusually high call volume, we are unable to answer your call." "Go to southwest.com or call us back at a later time." As of 1225EDT Monday, M
35 northwestair : I just called WN reservations and it took about 9 mins for an agent to answer not to bad to to me
36 GSPSPOT : Not bad? I used to do telephone customer service, and a 9 min wait time would NOT have been considered anything remotely near good.
37 Antoniemey : It all depends on what you're comparing against. Ever called Time Warner Cable?
38 tozairport : I called United, Delta, AND US Air earlier today (ZED fare questions) and got an agent right away. 9 minutes to save $0 is unacceptable.
39 redflyer : I'm going out on a limb here, which is to say it's pure guess, but I'm wondering if WN hasn't outsourced their IT department to the lowest bidder, in
40 EA CO AS : WN's recent Rapid Rewards changes are obviously having a huge impact on their agents' average handling time. WN call centers have historically shot f
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