Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
CO May Exit 737-500, 767-200 Fleets  
User currently offlinetpaewr From United States of America, joined May 2001, 453 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 19078 times:

I suspect this wouldn't be till after the summer at the earliest


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...7-200-fleets.html?cmpid=yhoo#share

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5841 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 19041 times:

How many 767-300s could you equip with a Signature Interior using the parts from 10 767-200s?   

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9818 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 18880 times:

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 1):
How many 767-300s could you equip with a Signature Interior using the parts from 10 767-200s?

I struggle to imagine that they would do that. I can't see an airline of the quality of UA/CO using 10 year old used parts especially since that means that the 762s would essentially end up scrapped since the interior would be gutted. They can't sell the 762s on the used market since they are cut up and they can't easily bring them back into service if fuel price goes back down and expansion plans are made.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinePI4EVER From United States of America, joined May 2009, 706 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 18804 times:

Make an offer to US to take the 762's so they can resume the highly successful CLT-FLGSTP-HNL route.
Snide remark aside, I am not so sure US could not utilize a few newer-build 762's to expand CLT to So.America/Hawaii/Europe and PHX to Hawaii/Central and South America/Alaska and if range capable Japan.
A 10year old 762 is marketable from both a lease/sell option and a new airline/route operation.



watch what you want. you may get it.
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5841 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 18648 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 2):
I struggle to imagine that they would do that. I can't see an airline of the quality of UA/CO using 10 year old used parts especially since that means that the 762s would essentially end up scrapped since the interior would be gutted. They can't sell the 762s on the used market since they are cut up

I am assuming any sale of those 762s would be to a cargo operator. I think all passenger operators would have the same issue UA is having: that 762s are no longer competitive on fuel efficiency when fuel prices are high.


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5950 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 18372 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I'm a little surprised that CO is getting rid of the 767-200's considering that they are relatively young planes. I believe many of UA's 767-300's are older than CO's 767-200's.

User currently offlineha763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3671 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 18347 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Does CO own the 762ERs or are they leased?

I could see AA taking the CO 762ERs to replace their 762ERs on the Flagship routes. Not directly, as I see CO selling (if owned) the aircraft to a lessor, who then would lease or sell the 762ERs to AA. AA has 15 762ERs, but they don't all fly everyday. The CO 762ERs are also less than half the age of AA's 762ERs. This would give AA at least another 10 years before they have to find a replacement aircraft for their Flagship routes.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6826 posts, RR: 32
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 18147 times:

Quoting tpaewr (Thread starter):
CO May Exit 737-500, 767-200 Fleets

I don't think the pre-merger CO pilots are going to be real happy about that...


User currently offlinemcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1487 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 18067 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 7):
I don't think the pre-merger CO pilots are going to be real happy about that...

Why would any of the pilots or employees at both companies be happy about parking airplanes? At this point the merger has passed V1 and any fleet changes impact BOTH groups. Those are less airplanes for the combined carrier and less bid positions once we have SOC and an ISL.

Hopefully these will be offset with new 737 and 787 deliveries. If the 787 is ever certified and delivered.


User currently onlinexms3200 From Sweden, joined Apr 2005, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 18008 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I can't wait for CO/UA to be integrated into a single operating certificate and integrated seniority list.. May BIG BUSINESS THRIVE!!!!!!!!

User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1751 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 17888 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ha763 (Reply 6):
Does CO own the 762ERs or are they leased?

Only 1 is leased; remaining owned.


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3174 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 17406 times:

Quoting PI4EVER (Reply 3):
I am not so sure US could not utilize a few newer-build 762's to expand CLT to So.America/Hawaii/Europe and PHX to Hawaii/Central and South America/Alaska and if range capable Japan.
A 10year old 762 is marketable from both a lease/sell option and a new airline/route operation.

I was thinking the same thing. US is tight on widebodies right now, and some newer 762s would be great. US could put them on the longer 762 routes now, such as PHL-ATH, and use the older ones for expansion. I think if US had more widebodies now, and if fuel wasnt going up the way it would be, they would be in the process of an Latin/South American expansion.

I believe CO's 762s could probably make it to TLV from PHL.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 5):
I'm a little surprised that CO is getting rid of the 767-200's considering that they are relatively young planes

Yeah. What is the oldest 762 in the fleet?



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1751 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16691 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 11):

Yeah. What is the oldest 762 in the fleet?

First one delivered November 2000. Last one delivered October 2001.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16579 times:

Quoting n7371f (Reply 12):
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 11):

Yeah. What is the oldest 762 in the fleet?

First one delivered November 2000. Last one delivered October 2001.

The 10 CO 762ERs were the the last passenger 762s built except for one or two for government/VIP use (plus several military tanker versions for Italy and Japan).


User currently offlineMileHighOffice From Australia, joined Jun 2010, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16468 times:

Isn't the issue that no matter how new, the number of seat relative to the extra weight make a 757 a better proposition? The 762s just don't carry many more passengers, and the extra airframe weight to give one more seat per row than a 757 does not make economic sense when fuel prices are where they are... even if the air frame was built last week.

User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1751 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16318 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MileHighOffice (Reply 14):
Isn't the issue that no matter how new, the number of seat relative to the extra weight make a 757 a better proposition? The 762s just don't carry many more passengers, and the extra airframe weight to give one more seat per row than a 757 does not make economic sense when fuel prices are where they are... even if the air frame was built last week.

Not necessarily. The 762 was specifically acquired for long-haul, thin routes that no other aircraft with similar seating capacity can fly. Also, and on many routes equally as important, the cargo that a 762 can carry is a significant revenue boost to the route performance (again over anything a 757 can run). Don't under estimate the cargo revenue...but even that may not be enough to overcome with oil prices where they are.


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16025 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 5):
I believe many of UA's 767-300's are older than CO's 767-200's.

All of them are.

They're just too heavy and tiny, unfortunately.

NS


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6132 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 15901 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 16):
All of them are.

...actualy the newest 300ER was delivered in 2001.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3038 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 14484 times:

Quoting MileHighOffice (Reply 14):

Isn't the issue that no matter how new, the number of seat relative to the extra weight make a 757 a better proposition? The 762s just don't carry many more passengers, and the extra airframe weight to give one more seat per row than a 757 does not make economic sense when fuel prices are where they are... even if the air frame was built last week.


Surprising as it might seem you do know that those few Continental B762ER aircraft are configured with one less seat than the B752ER models used across the Atlantic !

The B762ER models are normally deployed on major city routes with good business class loads and are Biz class heavy - 25 BizFirst seats and just 149 Economy, whilst the B752ER have just 16 BizFirst seats and as many as 159 in Economy

The B762ER models do have better cargo uplift and from time to time a B752ER route will get upgraded specifically for cargo reasons.

When this happens several Economy passengers can expect a free upgrade as well !


User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4851 posts, RR: 44
Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 14273 times:

Its surprising that these planes of which some are less than 10 years old are being considered for phase out. The only plus side of it is that they can be sold in the used aircraft market for a good resale value.

Airlines that could be interested in these jets primarily as a capacity bridging aircraft are US Airways, Lan Chile, LOT, Uzbekistan Airways, RAM, Ethiopian and Kenya Airways.


User currently offlinecslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 843 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 14242 times:

CO has traditionally had a more robust fleet policy than most other US Network Carriers, deciding to replace its aircraft before the plane become life expired. I do believe that the New UA will continue on this path and divest the 735s to growing airlines in Brazil, India, Russia and other developing countries who what aircraft with low capital costs. I do however believe that the story would be different for the 762. I think the New UA should keep the 762 but redeploy them to new and unique markets where a 777 offers too much capacity and a 763 doesn't have the range. For example from EWR this could mean nonstop flights to regional cities in Japan, more flights to the Middle East, Central Asia and Africa. For example from SFO, this could mean more flights to regional airports in Mainland China.


--cslusarc from YWG
User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3929 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 14202 times:

I can't see this as a case of the 735's and 762's being grounded overnight. As more 737s come from Boeing (and E-Jets from the UA side) CO has less need for the 735. Again the 762 will probably be phased out over a period of months as 787s come on-line. Obviously there would be a fleet shuffle, but I would expect fleet numbers to remain roughly static as the new jets come on-line.


Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineMileHighOffice From Australia, joined Jun 2010, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 13404 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 18):
Surprising as it might seem you do know that those few Continental B762ER aircraft are configured with one less seat than the B752ER models used across the Atlantic !

Wow... did not know that.

As much as I love the 757, could not imagine flying across the Atlantic in one, especially in the back!


User currently offlinen9801f From Samoa, joined Apr 2004, 346 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 13256 times:

Quoting behramjee (Reply 19):
Its surprising that these planes of which some are less than 10 years old are being considered for phase out.

Many have expressed this view.

But I was surprised CO bought 762's in the first place. They were nearly 20-year-old technology when CO purchased them in 2000, and other carriers (e.g. UA, AA) were already keen to phase them out by then.

For some airlines, the plane-mile cost of a 762 is about the same as a 763 - in fact, sometimes the 763 is cheaper. So there really aren't advantages to operating 762's, unless perhaps CO got a very low price on them.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8503 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 12892 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Given the unique long haul and low passenger load capabilities of the 762ER fleet these planes are great for Houston and Dulles flights to Rio, Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires. They could also be used to cities with high J demand. Another use could be to replace one 777 with 2 762ER, Newark to Brussels has 1 777 daily, but 2 762ER maybe better. Sending these birds to pasture is a crime, they have CF6-80C2 engines more capable then the more common GE engine in earlier 762, the CF6-80A2( the engine AA 762 have).

25 LPSHobby : for, for example, a 10000km route, wath is the % difference between the trip cost ( not CASM) of a 767-200ER and the trip cost of a 767-300ER ?
26 KGRB : Perhaps you mean DL? The 762 is still going strong at AA.
27 DualQual : Nothing will make money when you consistently give away the product.
28 flyhossd : If I recall correctly, the "Transition and Protocol Agreement" signed by both UA and CO and both pilot's unions requires CO to maintain 100% of CO's
29 YULWinterSkies : Yes but a 767 is a 767, and basically flies 767 technology, regardless of when it first flew. The 763ER offers better efficiency than the 762ER (the
30 Matt777 : I believe that the 767-200ERs are here to stay, but given high fuel prices their current use will be changed a bit. Now they are operating EWR-GRU x7
31 kaitak : Yes, I'd heard that, but of course, it has longer legs than the 752, so it can get to certain places, like Switzerland and Italy, that the 757 can't.
32 overeasy : Since when did CAL use a 767-200 on the EWR-TXL route? It's almost always been a 757-200.
33 DualQual : At times during the winter months a 762 has been used to avoid a possible fuel stop on the west bound TXL-EWR leg.
34 Post contains images n9801f : Yes, you are right that AA is still flying them. But they're down to about 15 ships now, and IIRC, at one point they had a much larger fleet... Gener
35 hiflyer : I'm not sure the 762 fleet is in trouble....pretty sure the references are to the 735 fleet....UA took them out awhile back and subsequently reduced a
36 Post contains images UnitedTristar : I would be shocked too. I would think if anything they could be reallocated to domestic, possibly LAX to JFK (obviously not enough tails to take over
37 LAXtoATL : I believe they had about twice that many. They kept just enough to operate their premium transcon services, but them all off the international rotati
38 washingtonian : When did Jeff Smisek single out the 762 fleet? Realistically speaking, United can't retire the 762 fleet the way it can the 735 fleet right now. Too
39 gigneil : There's nothing unique about that. Dulles to those markets need the carry of the 763, and occasionally a 777. I'd imagine Houston could use it too. N
40 Viscount724 : AA took delivery of 13 762s 1982-1985 and 17 762ERs 1985-1988.
41 ZKNCL : I emailed CEO Jeff Smisek about these retirements and he replied saying that the 737-800's will replace the 737-500 fleet and I am still waiting for a
42 kiwiandrew : I'm quite impressed that you got a reply !
43 AADC10 : The issue is fuel efficiency. The trip fuel costs for both are almost the same and of course the 200 has fewer seats. Yes, but they are used mostly o
44 jfk777 : With all the inetrnatioal demands of the United Continental Fleet getting rid of any 767 is wrong.
45 Post contains links LAXtoATL : Speech yesterday (March 11) in Houston according to... http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...ontinental_may_ground_737-500.html
46 DCAjet : EZE is no longer operated by the 762, but the 764. Flights 52/53 IAH-EZE-IAH
47 fun2fly : New UA could move its 14 763 domestics to international and then you've replaced these fuel eating machines. That would need to hold them over until
48 laphroig : Unless you can't make money with them. With the merger, the limiting factor is no longer a CO shortage of widebody aircraft. The limits are revenue a
49 n9801f : Further to laphroig's points, if fuel goes up, United Continental will need fewer widebodies. Because routes that (barely) make money at today's fuel
50 fun2fly : Not as well as the 753 to replace them, or as CO has proven, a 738. Perhaps not on all of the routes, but some. If you figure that CO pulls out 10 76
51 BOACCunard : I'm surprised nobody has made the distinction between the 762 and the 762ER here. DL never operated the 762ER, and AA still operates its whole 762ER
52 xdlx : DL could really use the 762ER as another small subfleet.... replacing some of the first 752 up there in years. The first 10 752 at DL are over 20yrs
53 PHLwok : Well, most of it. They had 12, now they have 10. One was written off as damaged beyond repair in 2000 (IIRC) after an uncontained engine failure duri
54 BOACCunard : A 762ER is definitely not a good replacement for a 752. I don't really know why they would -- it has to be a very small number of airlines who would
55 jfk777 : Cal's 762ER were fresh from Seattle when other airlines retired their 762 fleets. AA, UA, TW and DL 762 were all early build and later those airlines
56 BOACCunard : But not their 762ER fleets! Most of the aircraft you're referring to weren't the ER variant. A 762ER built in 2000 is not the same as a 762 built in
57 dsuairptman : Axing the 500s has to do with a rather nasty JCBA between pilots and management on the horizion. Managment wants 70 seaters to continue to be operated
58 deltal1011man : right. They (like DL/UA parked the 762s) No they had 17, 1 was lost in LAX (blew a fan disk during a run up IIRC) and the other was AA11 AA did park
59 Post contains images n9801f :
60 robo65 : Correction CO has 48 widebodies. 22 777, 16 767-400 and 10 767-200.
61 2travel2know2 : UA/CO getting rid of B767-200ER means little or no chance for an IAH-GLA or IAH-EDI to please IAH oil-related travellers or an ANC-GUM link.
62 TOMMY767 : IMHO, it would be stupid for CO to ground the 762 fleet for "oil prices." These aircraft could making a killing for UA if they are placed on the right
63 jfk777 : Hardly enough airplanes for Continental to support all those long haul flights to India, Tel Aviv, Tokyo, Peking, Shanghai, Hong Kong, LHR, EZE, GIG
64 CALPSAFltSkeds : Does anyone know if the repainting is taking place on potential lease returns and/or non-wingletted 735s? That would possibly indicate if they will s
65 fun2fly : All 34 units in service are leased. There are an additional 49 Boeing 737 aircraft (35 owned and 14 leased) that are grounded per the annual report.
66 30west : Almost no one has answered the question " How do you get around two separate Transition agreements with two different pilot groups that say the block
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
CO 737-500 posted Tue Dec 9 2008 20:25:26 by Mcg
CO B-767/200 Some Question...? posted Thu Feb 14 2008 01:17:53 by Plairbus
DL/CO To GRU Using 767-200 And 400 posted Mon Oct 29 2007 11:08:09 by Sampa737
CO's 767-200's posted Thu Dec 14 2006 17:53:27 by AF022
Coach Cabin In CO 737-500 posted Sat Oct 8 2005 20:11:21 by Rampart
CO 767-200 With DL Engine? posted Wed Apr 27 2005 22:25:17 by Junction
BusinessFirst, CO 767-200 EWR-LAX? posted Fri Feb 27 2004 03:49:21 by ContinentalEWR
CO 777, 767-400, 767-200, 757-200 posted Fri Jun 14 2002 03:53:39 by ContinentalEWR
737's V. 767-200's On Transatlantics? posted Wed Mar 27 2002 03:59:02 by Jcxp15
CO 737-500 Engine Fire At IAD posted Wed Oct 31 2001 13:31:05 by Contrails