goblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0 Posted (2 years 9 months 14 hours ago) and read 6057 times:
I was browsing through the database of pictures at MIA and i saw a lot of Amerijet 727s and Centurion cargo MDs, etc. this got me thinking, will airlines ever really replace their outdated a/c? My mindset is, if Amerijet still keeps their 727s around then why would an airline such as DL replace their DC9s let's say? Yes i know their getting outdated and will eventually need to be replaced but there are so many old a/c from the 80's or so flying for modern airlines today so what's the rush? and when DL let's say replaces their 744s with the 748i will we ever really see the 744s in VCV or wherever?
ltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12670 posts, RR: 13 Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 5505 times:
After 9/11, a number of older a/c were phased out at major airlines especially older 747's, 737's and most remaining 727's due to sharply lower demand, economic necessity, and taking advantage of the situation. We have more recently seen the L-1011 pretty much gone from pax airlines as well as the remaining DC-8's, DC-9's, A-300's from pax and freight use but for a few owners as they reach the end of their useful lives, maker support reduced or have become fuel hogs, In the end, it is always about the money and if an aircraft cannot make enough revenue to support it's costs, then it will pretty much disappear from common use.
MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4210 posts, RR: 36 Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 5466 times:
I am also not sure what point you try to make.
I keep track of current fleets for airlinerlist.com and almost all aircraft will eventually disappear.
You mention 727s... Only 10 years ago most major US airlines still had sizeable fleets. Now only a dozen still fly passengers (Aerosur, Iran Air, Iran Aseman, Ariana). Cargo aircraft survive longer, because they make fewer hours, the economics are better, as the purchase price is low compared to the operational costs. About 250 Boeing 727s are still flying. Even here, FedEx is phasing them out. Maybe in 15 years no more 727s are operational.
The DC-9 will follow the same track. Delta and a few Venezolan and African airlines fly passengers, a few more freight but numbers are a shadow of 10 years ago when about 700 DC-9s were still flying.
Some planetypes which don't fly anymore at all: Comet, Caravelle, Concorde, Trident, Tu-104, Tu-124, Tu-144, Ilyushin 14, Viscount, Britannia, CL-44, Vanguard, HP Herald, Stratocruiser, Boeing 720, Fairchild built F-27/FH-227, Convair 880/990, Martin 404
Some planetypes which only fly with preservation groups or for flightshow presentations: Lockheed Constellation, Ju-52, Ford Trimotor, DH Heron, DH Dove
Some planetypes which have between a single one and a fifth of the production run still flying, some commercially but mostly cargo or military nowadays: DC-3, DC-4, DC-6, DC-7, Curtiss Commando, Boeing 707, 727, DC-8, DC-9, Fokker F-27, Fokker 28, Nord 262, Convair props, VC-10, VFW-614, Ilyushin 18, 62, 86, HS-748, NAMC YS-11, GAF Nomad, Lockheed Electra, Tristar etc
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
Navigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1101 posts, RR: 15 Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5087 times:
Quoting goblin211 (Thread starter): I was browsing through the database of pictures at MIA and i saw a lot of Amerijet 727s and Centurion cargo MDs, etc. this got me thinking, will airlines ever really replace their outdated a/c? My mindset is, if Amerijet still keeps their 727s around then why would an airline such as DL replace their DC9s let's say? Yes i know their getting outdated and will eventually need to be replaced but there are so many old a/c from the 80's or so flying for modern airlines today so what's the rush? and when DL let's say replaces their 744s with the 748i will we ever really see the 744s in VCV or wherever?
Technology advances and potentially all types go. But there will always be museums or the kinds of "Buffalo Airways" or even less wealthy airlines like Delta where older airframes survive longer than expected
I'm gathering your point is that sometimes it seems like a "shell game", with airlines simply shuffling planes among themselves rather than airplanes being truly eliminated.
Given that there are still some DC-3's flying around, etc., it sort of seems like the old ones never truly go away.
The bottom line is that planes usually become economically outdated before they wear out. But passenger airplanes sometimes find a second life as lower-utilization cargo or charter planes because of their low purchase price (meaning you can afford to pay the bank interest on the purchase even when it sits around) and also because the operating costs are less important (since they sit a lot of the time, fuel economy isn't as important.) However eventually maintenance costs get very high, or else the next crop of "old" (but cheap and more efficient) airplanes moves down from passenger airlines.
So even if a few planes get a second life, in the end they all eventually meet the cutter and get recycled. Remember that the next time you drink a beverage from an aluminum can (!)
ltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12670 posts, RR: 13 Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2713 times:
Another factor for a model of aircraft to no longer be in service can be the failure of the manufacure, it's merger into other companies and over time, if a poor seller or as active models decline to very low numbers, that there is no economic benefits or profits to continue to support it. In some cases, like with the DC-3, other companies can take over the continuation of making parts to keep remaining a/c flying, but even then, they too will reach a point where new or rebuilt parts are no longer a profitable enterprise. Without support, parts, service, an aircraft really cannot continue to fly.