LHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 740 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10750 times:
Virgin has already taken delivery of an A330 and is to only take delivery of two A330s initially. The other A330s intended for delivery are being leased to other airlines.
As Virgin is currently doing through a possible sale process it's not surprising that it's not expanding significantly. Various new routes have been mooted over the years (GIG, YVR etc). As always with Virgin, believe it when you see it
LHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 740 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 10373 times:
Quoting AirNZ (Reply 4): Can you enlarge on that please with an official source?
It has been well documented that SRB has appointed Deutsche Bank to undertake a "strategic review" (parlance for "find potential bidders") and that other airlines (Dela and AF-KLM) have appointed their own advisors.
LV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1813 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8792 times:
hum, MAN-LAS is coming... I think BMI did the route at one time. At any rate, always good to see more tourists coming to town to fill the hotel rooms and drop money at the casinos
747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3301 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8552 times:
It's a sad day when VS starts operating twin jets! Ok, it's not that big of a deal.
Now will these A330 still be important to VS fleet, when the Boeing 787 are delivered? It is good that VS is operating A330s, but I liked the 744, A346, A380 and 787 fleet that was supposed to happen.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10694 posts, RR: 100 Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8531 times:
Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 1): As always with Virgin, believe it when you see it
So true. VS is the airline equivalent of Apple, they live in a 'distorted reality.'
While both Apple and VS deliver products customers like, sometimes their greatest talent is maintaining the 'thought of the product' rather than expanding the product.
Quoting anstar (Reply 7):
The a330 Will only be doing Orlando runs without J.
Do you have a link? My favorite seat map sites do not have the VS A330 yet.
tomrob17 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 33 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4560 times:
Quoting anstar (Reply 7):
The a330 Will only be doing Orlando runs without J. But both man And lgw Will Also get 747 service too. So j pax Will Just choose those flights.
More to the point the J-Class cabin wouldn't fit in the A330 when they were fitting the cabins! There were several suggestions for a compact re-designed J class for the A330 but eventually they decided to increase the number of Premium & Economy seats as they're doing Orlando trips, which I personally believe is a mistake on Virgin's part
Flight is the only truly new sensation that men have achieved in modern history ~ James Dickey
readytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4083 times:
Have to agree 100%,I know they consider it a "bucket & spade" route but there is good premium traffic to be had.
I fly BA to MCO about 6 times a year and the cabin is always 70%+,with Virgin passing up the traffic BA will be rubbing their hands with glee.
Downside, could be harder to get a seat and the price could rise.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10694 posts, RR: 100 Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3783 times:
Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 13): I fly BA to MCO about 6 times a year and the cabin is always 70%+,with Virgin passing up the traffic BA will be rubbing their hands with glee.
Downside, could be harder to get a seat and the price could rise.
Yep. There is some business LHR-MCO too. (e.g., Westinghouse industrial turbines down in Orlando sends people globally and customers fly there too). In fact, I have a friend in Orlando whose MCO-LHR J class buying decision won't be impacted by the VS flight. But it is numbers. I suspect MCO-LHR is over-supplied with J.
Another side is that many US based employers do not pay for Y+. Its either a free upgrade or 'no joy.' My employer and our major competitors are all in that boat. A flight is either long enough for J or we're back in Y.
I wonder what the yield is for BA LHR-MCO in J. Whatever it was, VS bowing out leaves a chance for BA.
Quoting thediplomat (Reply 11): Took all of 20 seconds on a site called Google.
Thank you for the link. If you're read my posts and noted how many links I've supplied in the past...
To be blunt, Virgin's seat maps are more artistic than useful for comparison. Rarely do I go to airlines for their seat maps as they lack the information to judge a configuration (worst seats, best seats, pitch, noise, etc.). I hope seatguru puts up a chart soon. But with two planes in the sub-fleet, it really isn't worth the effort to do an analysis. (Not to mention they want feedback. Tough to get on such a tiny sub-fleet.) .
david_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7145 posts, RR: 14 Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3717 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 15): I wonder what the yield is for BA LHR-MCO in J.
MCO is a LGW route for BA which indicates it's not a really premium market. Anyone wanting MCO-LHR would best be operating on an airline like DL or AA routing though MIA?
goblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3695 times:
Well, If you ask me I think their just doing this to match BA. I'm sure BA is doing good enough on their LHR-LAS route and will continue doing so. VS just wants a piece of the action. However, I don't think they'll pull off the tropical routes. That just seems a little far fetched to me.
tomrob17 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 33 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3641 times:
The reason I see the A330 as a bad decision for the MAN-MCO route is because over the summer Virgin continuously fill the 400s to the rafters and even introduce a GGW-MCO route seasonally as a result. The company is focusing too heavily on efficiency per passenger/km and not passenger yield
Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 13): I fly BA to MCO about 6 times a year and the cabin is always 70%+,with Virgin passing up the traffic BA will be rubbing their hands with glee.
I agree totally! By reducing the number of passengers per flight at the same trip frequency, they are literally handing passengers over to other airlines. The A330 in 2-class will seat on average 335 punters whereas the figure sits at 416 on the current 400s in 3-class configuration. So despite the marginal increase in efficiency they're losing bums in seats. BA will be delighted indeed!
I am aware that Virgin are planning on re-designing J-Class over the next few years so it may well be the case, provided passenger interest is established, that they'll be able to fit it in the A330...
Flight is the only truly new sensation that men have achieved in modern history ~ James Dickey
david_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7145 posts, RR: 14 Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3626 times:
Quoting goblin211 (Reply 17): Well, If you ask me I think their just doing this to match BA. I'm sure BA is doing good enough on their LHR-LAS route
Don't forget that VS has been operating to LAS for a lot longer than BA
Quoting goblin211 (Reply 17): However, I don't think they'll pull off the tropical routes
Don't see why not. After all, where BA have got BA Holidays to aid them so VS have Virgin Holidays. A330s can get to the Caribbean from the UK which is what BD did from MAN. The other tthing to bear in mind is that having a relatively small fleet means that they having to combine routes; getting smaller aircraft should enable them to be de-linked.
david_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7145 posts, RR: 14 Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3615 times:
Quoting tomrob17 (Reply 18): The reason I see the A330 as a bad decision for the MAN-MCO route
The A330 is going daily but there's a 744 operating 4 weekly. Next year may be slightly different.
Quoting tomrob17 (Reply 18): ven introduce a GGW-MCO route seasonally as a result.
Presume you mean GLA. They've been doing that for at least 2 if not 3 years - initially on a very restricted schedule which was tied in to the Scottish school holiday but this year it's been expanded.
caaardiff From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 180 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3290 times:
Don't forget that Virgin now owns Travel City Direct. A major player in the Orlando holiday market. The on board product is a massive improvement to what TCD used to use - The Air Atlanta 747-300's, and until they went bust, XL A330's. If anything, this should have helped VS expand ops to Orlando significantly, where TCD used to have at least 2 747 flights a day to SFB in a 500+ pax config.
planesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 802 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2377 times:
Quoting tomrob17 (Reply 18): I agree totally! By reducing the number of passengers per flight at the same trip frequency, they are literally handing passengers over to other airlines. The A330 in 2-class will seat on average 335 punters whereas the figure sits at 416 on the current 400s in 3-class configuration. So despite the marginal increase in efficiency they're losing bums in seats. BA will be delighted indeed!
Yield protection. By removing the 100 seats, they are removing the 100 lowest fare paying passengers on the flight, who are the most price sensitive. They likely produce very little profit to the flight and may even cost money to transport. A lot of commentary has already mentioned how the fares seem to have increased (in addition to inflation and fuel factors).
The other problem is that whilst the 744's go out full during school holidays, during the quieter periods, they have had at times only 130 ish people, that is a lot of dead weight to transport. A lighter, more fuel efficient aircraft makes sense to operate. A split 744/A333 fleet allows them to operate 744's to the Caribbean when it is the season and A333's to MCO when it is out of season and then switch for seasonal demand. Whether that will actually transpire will remain to be seen.
SevenHeavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1126 posts, RR: 10 Reply 25, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1966 times:
Quoting planesailing (Reply 22): Yield protection. By removing the 100 seats, they are removing the 100 lowest fare paying passengers on the flight, who are the most price sensitive. They likely produce very little profit to the flight and may even cost money to transport. A lot of commentary has already mentioned how the fares seem to have increased (in addition to inflation and fuel factors).
The other problem is that whilst the 744's go out full during school holidays, during the quieter periods, they have had at times only 130 ish people, that is a lot of dead weight to transport. A lighter, more fuel efficient aircraft makes sense to operate. A split 744/A333 fleet allows them to operate 744's to the Caribbean when it is the season and A333's to MCO when it is out of season and then switch for seasonal demand. Whether that will actually transpire will remain to be seen.
It will be interesting to see whether the A333 to MCO is more for convenience and lack of other options than long term strategy. The B744 are going to be refurbished which meant they had to find something to fill the gaps over the next year or so. There was also the temporary problem with the UCS which could mean that the only viable option was to have them fill in for a while on leisure routes - killing two birds with one stone as it were. Sending the lowest capacity aircraft to the highest density destination on the network doesn't seem to fit to me.
More A333 join the fleet next year. I wonder if the original two aircraft will then be reconfigured and sent up to LHR to operate some of the thinner routes, maybe sending more B744 to LGW/MAN in the process.
Don't forget, when the first B744 arrived (G-VFAB) it was originally configured in a high density layout and deployed to MCO....it was quickly reconfigured a few months later, so these things are quickly and relatively easily changed.
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So true. VS is the airline equivalent of Apple, they live in a 'distorted reality.' 
From Ireland, joined Jun 2006, 382 posts, 
Its either a free upgrade or 'no joy.' My employer and our major competitors are all in that boat. A flight is either long enough for J or we're back in Y. 
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