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Virgin Atlantic Creates 450 New Jobs!  
User currently offlineBAfan From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 189 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11394 times:

Things must be improving...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-12710070

I wonder if they will launch any additional new routes when the aircraft start arriving from Airbus.

Does anyone know the delivery date of the first aircraft?

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 816 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11273 times:

Virgin has already taken delivery of an A330 and is to only take delivery of two A330s initially. The other A330s intended for delivery are being leased to other airlines.

As Virgin is currently doing through a possible sale process it's not surprising that it's not expanding significantly. Various new routes have been mooted over the years (GIG, YVR etc). As always with Virgin, believe it when you see it


User currently offlineBAfan From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11204 times:

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 1):
Virgin has already taken delivery of an A330

I wasn't aware of this, thanks for letting me know!

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 1):
As always with Virgin, believe it when you see it

Sounds like something I would say...  


User currently offlinedestinations From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11097 times:

G-VSXY and G-VKSS and still in Zurich SR Technics both have been handed over to Virgin, VSXY is expected to arrive in LGW tommorow

User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11010 times:

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 1):
As Virgin is currently doing through a possible sale process

Can you enlarge on that please with an official source?


User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 816 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10896 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 4):
Can you enlarge on that please with an official source?

It has been well documented that SRB has appointed Deutsche Bank to undertake a "strategic review" (parlance for "find potential bidders") and that other airlines (Dela and AF-KLM) have appointed their own advisors.


User currently offlineHeeBeeGB From Finland, joined Sep 2007, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9755 times:

"4 engines 4 longhaul"  

Amazed no J class on the A330s. So any pax wanting J class to Carib / Orlando are pushed into BA!


User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5245 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9366 times:

The a330 Will only be doing Orlando runs without J. But both man And lgw Will Also get 747 service too. So j pax Will Just choose those flights.

User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 2005 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9315 times:

hum, MAN-LAS is coming... I think BMI did the route at one time. At any rate, always good to see more tourists coming to town to fill the hotel rooms and drop money at the casinos

User currently online747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3626 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9075 times:

It's a sad day when VS starts operating twin jets! Ok, it's not that big of a deal.  


Now will these A330 still be important to VS fleet, when the Boeing 787 are delivered? It is good that VS is operating A330s, but I liked the 744, A346, A380 and 787 fleet that was supposed to happen.


PS: VS, A330 really!  


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13141 posts, RR: 100
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9054 times:
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Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 1):
As always with Virgin, believe it when you see it

   So true. VS is the airline equivalent of Apple, they live in a 'distorted reality.'
While both Apple and VS deliver products customers like, sometimes their greatest talent is maintaining the 'thought of the product' rather than expanding the product.

Quoting anstar (Reply 7):

The a330 Will only be doing Orlando runs without J.

Do you have a link? My favorite seat map sites do not have the VS A330 yet.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinethediplomat From Ireland, joined Jun 2006, 382 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7157 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 10):
Do you have a link? My favorite seat map sites do not have the VS A330 yet.

Took all of 20 seconds on a site called Google.

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb...aboutus/ourfleet/index.jsp?type=14


User currently offlinetomrob17 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5083 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 7):

The a330 Will only be doing Orlando runs without J. But both man And lgw Will Also get 747 service too. So j pax Will Just choose those flights.

More to the point the J-Class cabin wouldn't fit in the A330 when they were fitting the cabins! There were several suggestions for a compact re-designed J class for the A330 but eventually they decided to increase the number of Premium & Economy seats as they're doing Orlando trips, which I personally believe is a mistake on Virgin's part



Flight is the only truly new sensation that men have achieved in modern history ~ James Dickey
User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3265 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4606 times:

Will they run the A330 out of MAN as well?

Quoting tomrob17 (Reply 12):

Have to agree 100%,I know they consider it a "bucket & spade" route but there is good premium traffic to be had.
I fly BA to MCO about 6 times a year and the cabin is always 70%+,with Virgin passing up the traffic BA will be rubbing their hands with glee.
Downside, could be harder to get a seat and the price could rise.



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlinedavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7379 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4427 times:
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Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 13):
Will they run the A330 out of MAN as well?

MAN's the 1st airport which will get it!


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13141 posts, RR: 100
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4306 times:
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Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 13):
I fly BA to MCO about 6 times a year and the cabin is always 70%+,with Virgin passing up the traffic BA will be rubbing their hands with glee.
Downside, could be harder to get a seat and the price could rise.

Yep. There is some business LHR-MCO too. (e.g., Westinghouse industrial turbines down in Orlando sends people globally and customers fly there too). In fact, I have a friend in Orlando whose MCO-LHR J class buying decision won't be impacted by the VS flight. But it is numbers. I suspect MCO-LHR is over-supplied with J.

Another side is that many US based employers do not pay for Y+.   Its either a free upgrade or 'no joy.' My employer and our major competitors are all in that boat. A flight is either long enough for J or we're back in Y.  

I wonder what the yield is for BA LHR-MCO in J. Whatever it was, VS bowing out leaves a chance for BA.  
Quoting thediplomat (Reply 11):
Took all of 20 seconds on a site called Google.

Thank you for the link. If you're read my posts and noted how many links I've supplied in the past...

To be blunt, Virgin's seat maps are more artistic than useful for comparison. Rarely do I go to airlines for their seat maps as they lack the information to judge a configuration (worst seats, best seats, pitch, noise, etc.). I hope seatguru puts up a chart soon. But with two planes in the sub-fleet, it really isn't worth the effort to do an analysis. (Not to mention they want feedback. Tough to get on such a tiny sub-fleet.) .

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinedavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7379 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4240 times:
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Quoting lightsaber (Reply 15):
I wonder what the yield is for BA LHR-MCO in J.

MCO is a LGW route for BA which indicates it's not a really premium market. Anyone wanting MCO-LHR would best be operating on an airline like DL or AA routing though MIA?


User currently offlinegoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4218 times:

Well, If you ask me I think their just doing this to match BA. I'm sure BA is doing good enough on their LHR-LAS route and will continue doing so. VS just wants a piece of the action. However, I don't think they'll pull off the tropical routes. That just seems a little far fetched to me.


From the airport with love
User currently offlinetomrob17 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4164 times:

The reason I see the A330 as a bad decision for the MAN-MCO route is because over the summer Virgin continuously fill the 400s to the rafters and even introduce a GGW-MCO route seasonally as a result. The company is focusing too heavily on efficiency per passenger/km and not passenger yield

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 13):
I fly BA to MCO about 6 times a year and the cabin is always 70%+,with Virgin passing up the traffic BA will be rubbing their hands with glee.

I agree totally! By reducing the number of passengers per flight at the same trip frequency, they are literally handing passengers over to other airlines. The A330 in 2-class will seat on average 335 punters whereas the figure sits at 416 on the current 400s in 3-class configuration. So despite the marginal increase in efficiency they're losing bums in seats. BA will be delighted indeed!

I am aware that Virgin are planning on re-designing J-Class over the next few years so it may well be the case, provided passenger interest is established, that they'll be able to fit it in the A330...



Flight is the only truly new sensation that men have achieved in modern history ~ James Dickey
User currently offlinedavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7379 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4149 times:
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Quoting goblin211 (Reply 17):
Well, If you ask me I think their just doing this to match BA. I'm sure BA is doing good enough on their LHR-LAS route

Don't forget that VS has been operating to LAS for a lot longer than BA

Quoting goblin211 (Reply 17):
However, I don't think they'll pull off the tropical routes

Don't see why not. After all, where BA have got BA Holidays to aid them so VS have Virgin Holidays. A330s can get to the Caribbean from the UK which is what BD did from MAN. The other tthing to bear in mind is that having a relatively small fleet means that they having to combine routes; getting smaller aircraft should enable them to be de-linked.


User currently offlinedavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7379 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4138 times:
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Quoting tomrob17 (Reply 18):
The reason I see the A330 as a bad decision for the MAN-MCO route

The A330 is going daily but there's a 744 operating 4 weekly. Next year may be slightly different.

Quoting tomrob17 (Reply 18):
ven introduce a GGW-MCO route seasonally as a result.

Presume you mean GLA. They've been doing that for at least 2 if not 3 years - initially on a very restricted schedule which was tied in to the Scottish school holiday but this year it's been expanded.


User currently offlinecaaardiff From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 191 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3813 times:

Don't forget that Virgin now owns Travel City Direct. A major player in the Orlando holiday market. The on board product is a massive improvement to what TCD used to use - The Air Atlanta 747-300's, and until they went bust, XL A330's. If anything, this should have helped VS expand ops to Orlando significantly, where TCD used to have at least 2 747 flights a day to SFB in a 500+ pax config.

User currently offlineplanesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 816 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2900 times:

Quoting tomrob17 (Reply 18):
I agree totally! By reducing the number of passengers per flight at the same trip frequency, they are literally handing passengers over to other airlines. The A330 in 2-class will seat on average 335 punters whereas the figure sits at 416 on the current 400s in 3-class configuration. So despite the marginal increase in efficiency they're losing bums in seats. BA will be delighted indeed!

Yield protection. By removing the 100 seats, they are removing the 100 lowest fare paying passengers on the flight, who are the most price sensitive. They likely produce very little profit to the flight and may even cost money to transport. A lot of commentary has already mentioned how the fares seem to have increased (in addition to inflation and fuel factors).

The other problem is that whilst the 744's go out full during school holidays, during the quieter periods, they have had at times only 130 ish people, that is a lot of dead weight to transport. A lighter, more fuel efficient aircraft makes sense to operate. A split 744/A333 fleet allows them to operate 744's to the Caribbean when it is the season and A333's to MCO when it is out of season and then switch for seasonal demand. Whether that will actually transpire will remain to be seen.


User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5245 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2851 times:

Lets not not forget that BA only fly once daily LGW-MCO

Whereas VS will fly

LGW - MCO twice daily 744 (some days 744/330 while refit occurs)
MAN-MCO Daily 330 and 4 weekly 744
GLA-MCO Twice a week in Summer 744/330

So VS still have a large fottprint versus the BA flights


User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3265 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2533 times:

In the summer months BA have 2 flights a day, I often that the later one.


you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineSevenHeavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1156 posts, RR: 10
Reply 25, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2489 times:

Quoting planesailing (Reply 22):
Yield protection. By removing the 100 seats, they are removing the 100 lowest fare paying passengers on the flight, who are the most price sensitive. They likely produce very little profit to the flight and may even cost money to transport. A lot of commentary has already mentioned how the fares seem to have increased (in addition to inflation and fuel factors).

The other problem is that whilst the 744's go out full during school holidays, during the quieter periods, they have had at times only 130 ish people, that is a lot of dead weight to transport. A lighter, more fuel efficient aircraft makes sense to operate. A split 744/A333 fleet allows them to operate 744's to the Caribbean when it is the season and A333's to MCO when it is out of season and then switch for seasonal demand. Whether that will actually transpire will remain to be seen.

It will be interesting to see whether the A333 to MCO is more for convenience and lack of other options than long term strategy. The B744 are going to be refurbished which meant they had to find something to fill the gaps over the next year or so. There was also the temporary problem with the UCS which could mean that the only viable option was to have them fill in for a while on leisure routes - killing two birds with one stone as it were. Sending the lowest capacity aircraft to the highest density destination on the network doesn't seem to fit to me.

More A333 join the fleet next year. I wonder if the original two aircraft will then be reconfigured and sent up to LHR to operate some of the thinner routes, maybe sending more B744 to LGW/MAN in the process.

Don't forget, when the first B744 arrived (G-VFAB) it was originally configured in a high density layout and deployed to MCO....it was quickly reconfigured a few months later, so these things are quickly and relatively easily changed.

Quoting anstar (Reply 23):
Whereas VS will fly

LGW - MCO twice daily 744 (some days 744/330 while refit occurs)
MAN-MCO Daily 330 and 4 weekly 744
GLA-MCO Twice a week in Summer 744/330

There is also an additional LGW-MCO flight operated weekly by a B744 in the summer (VS049/050)



So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
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