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Liat Props Or Jet.  
User currently offlineacws777 From Canada, joined Oct 2010, 95 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 2738 times:

I was just reading the caribbean aviation forum and it seems LIAT got the go ahead to replace its dash 8s. Also stated they are looking for jets to begin service to the western caribbean and the US. Other than the current dash 8-4oo or atr. Could LIAT replace their dash 8 with embraer erj's.

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 2694 times:

Not completely. I took LIAT when I was down in the Caribbean, there are some airports where the DASH-8 is the largest plane that can make it in/out of the airport. While they could use ERJ's to connect larger airports, the routing they currently use wouldn't work. For example, when I took them, I had to do the following:

BGI-SXM:
Routing was BGI - DOM - ANU - SKB - SXM
DOM and SKB were quite small and tricky approaches/departures.

SXM-SLU
Routing was SXM - ANU - DOM - SLU
Again, DOM was small and tricky.

I do not think it would be cost effective for them to replace all their prop service with jets either. These short hops would just scream high fuel consumption and high costs using RJs.



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3258 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 2673 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 1):
DOM and SKB were quite small and tricky approaches/departures.



Yeah, I've flown into DOM as a passenger. It's like flying into a gully, after making a 180 degree turn just before the hillside. Needless to say, they only do that approach in visual conditions. However, apparently FX 727s fly into there, believe it or not. So I assume a ER4 could do that if LIAT were so inclined. Same with SLU. The runway is short, but I think an ERJ could handle it.

When I flew LIAT it was not Q400s, as the OP mentions. It was Q100s and Q300s. I see you guys correctly spelled LIAT with all caps. It's an acronym that is pronounceable like QANTAS, not a name in itself.


User currently offlineaa1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3437 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 2634 times:

Quoting acws777 (Thread starter):
I was just reading the caribbean aviation forum and it seems LIAT got the go ahead to replace its dash 8s. Also stated they are looking for jets to begin service to the western caribbean and the US. Other than the current dash 8-4oo or atr. Could LIAT replace their dash 8 with embraer erj's.

LIAT flies mostly very short sectors- less than an hour. I don't think Rjs are best suited to those high-cycle/ frequency short runs.

I think the simple answer is that LIAT needs to replace their Dash8-300s with something similar. The Q400s are simply too big for many routes. LI would do well to go with the ATRs as an MRO will likely be established at one of their bases (POS) and (possible future partner) Caribbean Airlines flies (and will be increasing their fleet of) ATRs.

The E-Jet 170/190 (or C-Series or any "Small" Jet) would work alongside propos, but not in place of props. The E-Jets would work for routes like POS-ANU/BGI/CUR/GEO, and ANU-North America. They would be useful on trunk routes, and would allow LI to expand into new market.

LIAT's true fleet replacement though definitely rests in a new turboprop.

AA1818

[Edited 2011-03-16 11:12:33]


“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlinelimafoxtango From Antigua and Barbuda, joined Jun 2004, 807 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 2569 times:

LIAT is looking at fleet renewal as well at fleet expansion. In terms of fleet renewal, the Q400's is not the ideal aircraft for LIAT. Both Bombardier and ATR have met with LI to discuss this. In the end, I believe ATR might have edged out Bombardier. One would imagine that replacing 18 Dash 8's with 18 ATR's (or a similar amount) would be a phenomenal task for LIAT which would include replacing a hanger full of spare parts, retraining crew, engineers etc. LI will not be replacing its entire turbo-prop fleet with jets.

Another thing LIAT is considering is fleet expansion. There is some talk about acquiring a few RJ's to supplement its turbo-prop fleet. I would guess this figure would not be more than say 5. Embraer made a presentation to LI regarding their 170/190 aircraft while Bombardier made a presentation about their CRJ 900. As to which LI will choose, if any at all, is still undecided.

Its very sad Bombardier ended their Q300 production line because LI considers this the ideal aircraft.



You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
User currently offlineacws777 From Canada, joined Oct 2010, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 2482 times:

ok i get what you guys are saying. The erj are out of the question for fleet replacement and the dash 8-400 are too big for their current routes, but which variant of the ATR would be most suitable.

ATR 42- 42 PAX
ATR 72-70 PAX
(data as per airliners.net aircraft data).


User currently offlineBWIA 772 From Barbados, joined May 2002, 2200 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 2451 times:

Quoting limafoxtango (Reply 4):

  

Additionally many of the routes are suited to turbo prop operations with only a handful routes being viable for a small jet fleet.

Quoting acws777 (Reply 5):

The bulk of the orders will be for ATR 42 I do not see them getting the 72s if they go with the jets but I do hope they keep them as an option.

For the Jet fleet I suspect that we will be seeing E170s in the Caribbean doing "trunk routes" from LI hubs at ANU BGI and POS. Route expansion caused by the an E170 order would include CCS, PBM and KIN IMHO.

Regards
BWIA 772



Eagles Soar!
User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1530 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 2344 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 1):

SKB (St Kitts) has a runway of 8,000 with 2x week BA 777. Also gets AA service from JFK (757), US from CLT (319), DL from ATL (319 or 738) and daily AA from MIA on 738 equipment. Virgin Atlantic has done special flights with 747s.

I think you meant another island.


User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 2338 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 7):
I think you meant another island.

Based on that information, you are probably correct. I have to see if I still have the paperwork from that trip. It was a bit of a whirlwind trip for me and not all the stops were listed on my itinerary so I got a little turned around.



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1530 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 2328 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 8):

The terminal building at SKB is some what small compared to busier islands like BGI or SXM. But for LIAT its a breeze to land. I know when BA lands their 777 the turnoff from the landing strip to the apron is at a tight angle. But there are no mountains giving the "adventure" of DOM or even SLU (Vigie). They are well set back from the runway even though SKB is a mountainous island.


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