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Japan, The On Going Problems.  
User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 2
Posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6379 times:

Within the last hour or so the British Government has advised that the 17,000 Brits living in the counrty should move south or further.Most of the 17,000 Britons living in Japan are understood to be in Tokyo or Osaka.

With AF sending two aircraft to take out people why are the UK not offering similar?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12765593
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12763273


you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6304 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6334 times:

Quoting readytotaxi (Thread starter):

With AF sending two aircraft to take out people why are the UK not offering similar?

Well if it just happened within the last hour, they may not have it planned yet. It's awfully hard to plan an "evacuation" of tons of citizens within that short of a time. I wouldn't be surprised if they set something up and announced it overnight. That and BA/VS would be crazy not to send additional a/c right now...if their country has advised citizens to leave, they can probably make a lot of money by filling up some planes (yes, it's also nice to help, but come on it's a business like any other - money must be made).


User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2946 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6070 times:

Somehow I think the media is blowing things out of proportion. (Maybe Tokyo Power is hiding things too.)
With the exception of the area a few kilos from the power plant, the levels of radiation are normal. A person can get more radiation from a normal X-ray scan.


User currently offlineAAExecPlat From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 634 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6064 times:

Quoting carpethead (Reply 2):
With the exception of the area a few kilos from the power plant, the levels of radiation are normal. A person can get more radiation from a normal X-ray scan.

Although that may be true, radiation accumulates, so persistent exposure to low level radiation can still be harmful. That is far different than a short burst of (more powerful) X-Rays.


User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6304 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5872 times:

Quoting carpethead (Reply 2):
Somehow I think the media is blowing things out of proportion

Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that the UK government HAS advised citizens to leave parts of Japan, including Tokyo proper


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6346 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5805 times:

What is the state of the aviation infrastructure in the country? Were any navaids destroyed? I'm assuming that Sendai airport is unusable at this point in time. Were there any airliners on the ground when the tsunami washed out Sendai?

Enquiring minds want to know...

P.S. for those with access to international NOTAMS, posting the current NOTAMS for Japanese airports and airspace would be really cool  



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6534 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5643 times:

AF had some time to organize, French authorities advised French citizens to leave the Tokyo area days ago (so soon in fact that it instilled fear in other people, including the Japanese).

KELPkid : for your questions, there are already three threads :

NRT/HND Reported Closed - Earthquake (by jetblast Mar 10 2011 in Civil Aviation)

How Is Japan Traffic Affected? (by tommytoyz Mar 14 2011 in Civil Aviation)

The Tsunami Hit Sendai Airport In Japan! (by Dainan Mar 11 2011 in Civil Aviation)



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3610 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5538 times:

Quoting carpethead (Reply 2):
Somehow I think the media is blowing things out of proportion. (Maybe Tokyo Power is hiding things too.)
With the exception of the area a few kilos from the power plant, the levels of radiation are normal. A person can get more radiation from a normal X-ray scan.

Couple points:

1) You don't have an x-ray 24 hours per day. And no doctor would recommend you did.

2) I agree that at the moment, there's not a cause for concern. But the last thing any government wants is to be caught flat-footed in case things go south fast, which they very well could. It's better to prepare now and then be accused of being overly cautious than the opposite.

A lot of people are saying things like "a CT scan has this much radiation" or "you could eat a banana and get some radiation" or whatever, but we are talking about people being exposed on a continuous basis. The radiation in Tokyo at this moment is nothing to be concerned about, but around Fukushima is a different story. Japan has switched off the sensors in Fukushima for that reason, and they even switched them off in Ibaraki for a while too (they turned them back on now, and radiation is still elevated there). I would not want to be anywhere near that plant at the moment. And things could get a lot worse. Hopefully they don't. But it's prudent right now for countries to tell their nationals to prepare for the worst.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5532 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 7):
I would not want to be anywhere near that plant at the moment. And things could get a lot worse.

There are reports that some of the workers at the crippled plant are now suffering "acute radiation sickness" - that sounds really serious - and the situation looks like it is getting increasingly dangerous.

Please don't shoot the messenger, I'm merely conveying a media report.

A number of airlines are operating amended routes to avoid their staff stopping in Tokyo for any extended periods of time.

[Edited 2011-03-16 21:30:02]

User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3937 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5499 times:
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And France isn't alone. Belgium is flying an air force A330 to ICN for RON followed by an evacuation flight ex Tokyo, and the US has just announced it is chartering aircraft to fly out citizens, according to Reuters.


I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3610 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5487 times:

Quoting cpd (Reply 8):
There are reports that some of the workers at the crippled plant are now suffering "acute radiation sickness" - that sounds really serious - and the situation looks like it is getting increasingly dangerous.

This is directly from the IAEA - keep in mind that for most of this time, only 50 people were actually working at the plant:

Injuries (some of these sound radiological, even though they're not in that section)

2 TEPCO employees have minor injuries
2 subcontractor employees are injured, one person suffered broken legs and one person whose condition is unknown was transported to the hospital
2 people are missing
2 people were ’suddenly taken ill’
2 TEPCO employees were transported to hospital during the time of donning respiratory protection in the control centre
4 people (2 TEPCO employees, 2 subcontractor employees) sustained minor injuries due to the explosion at unit 1 on 11 March and were transported to the hospital
11 people (4 TEPCO employees, 3 subcontractor employees and 4 Japanese civil defense workers) were injured due to the explosion at unit 3 on 14 March


Radiological Contamination

17 people (9 TEPCO employees, 8 subcontractor employees) suffered from deposition of radioactive material to their faces, but were not taken to the hospital because of low levels of exposure
One worker suffered from significant exposure during ‘vent work,’ and was transported to an offsite center
2 policemen who were exposed to radiation were decontaminated
Firemen who were exposed to radiation are under investigation

That last one is kind of worrying in its vagueness (number affected, plus their condition).

It is obviously very bad in there.

To keep this aviation-related, I would imagine the reason more countries are not sending planes to evacuate their nationals is that for the moment, this seems localized to Fukushima. The workers are obviously making valiant attempts to keep it so, but there is as yet no guarantee they will succeed.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5479 times:

SriLankan too is flying an extra NRT flight today, with an A340, for evacuation purposes. It should reach NRT at about 1830L today.


The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5261 times:

Companies "Volkswagen" and "Continental" (the tyre manufacturer) - both HQ'ed around Hannover - have chartered a Pullmantur Air B744 EC-KOC and have flown out 193 workers to HAJ. It arrived yesterday. Local media has some coverage in German language incl. pics of a/c.
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently onlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13040 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5086 times:

Apparently per some new news reports, the US Government is chartering 2 a/c to evacuate about 600 citizens from Japan, mainly those that are members of or the dependents of Diplomatic staff.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42124586/ns/world_news-asiapacific
Further, the US State Dept. is advising no non-essential travel to Japan by US Citizens.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4663 times:

At noon today, WFAA TV in Dallas led their newscast with a reporter from DFW.

Incoming passengers from the flight from Tokyo were being screened for radiation contamination before being cleared by customs and immigration.

They are also reporting that AA is not overnighting planes or crews at NRT any longer, but flying them down to Kansai.

I've seen no confirmation of those statements on the TV news from other sources.


User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2424 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4613 times:

Quoting carpethead (Reply 2):
Somehow I think the media is blowing things out of proportion.

Yea, like that's never happened before. But I have to admit, this is one time that I really hope they are.

Quoting carpethead (Reply 2):
(Maybe Tokyo Power is hiding things too.)

This also makes me raise an eyebrow. Everyone but Japan is saying the same thing. Then again, we don't have as much of an on site presence as them either.
  



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlinerscaife1682 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4350 times:

Just got this in my company e mail not sure if it has been posted in the forums.

Great read.

> I'm currently still in one piece, writing from my room in the Narita crew
> hotel.
> It's 8am. This is my inaugural trans-pacific trip as a brand new, recently
> checked out, international 767 Captain and it has been interesting, to say
> the least, so far. I've crossed the Atlantic three times so far so the
> ocean
> crossing procedures were familiar.
>
> By the way, stunning scenery flying over the Aleutian Islands. Everything
> Was going fine until 100 miles out from Tokyo and in the descent for
> arrival.
> The first indication of any trouble was that Japan air traffic control
> started putting everyone into holding patterns. At first we thought it was
> usual congestion on arrival. Then we got a company data link message
> advising about the earthquake, followed by another stating Narita airport
> was temporarily closed for inspection and expected to open shortly (the
> company is always so positive).
>
> From our perspective things were obviously looking a little different. The
> Japanese controller's anxiety level seemed quite high and he said expect
> "indefinite" holding time. No one would commit to a time frame on that so
> I got my copilot and relief pilot busy looking at divert stations and our
> fuel situation, which, after an ocean crossing is typically low.
> It wasn't long, maybe ten minutes, before the first pilots started
> Requesting diversions to other airports. Air Canada, American, United,
> etc.
> all reporting minimal fuel situations. I still had enough fuel for 1.5 to
> 2.0 hours of holding. Needless to say, the diverts started complicating
> the
> situation.
>
>
> Japan air traffic control then announced Narita was closed indefinitely
> due to damage. Planes immediately started requesting arrivals into
> Haneada,
> near Tokyo, a half dozen JAL and western planes got clearance in that
> direction but then ATC announced Haenada had just closed. Uh oh! Now
> instead
> of just holding, we all had to start looking at more distant alternatives
> like Osaka, or Nagoya.
>
>
> One bad thing about a large airliner is that you can't just be-pop into
> Any little airport. We generally need lots of runway. With more planes
> piling in from both east and west, all needing a place to land and several
> now fuel critical ATC was getting over-whelmed. In the scramble, and
> without
>
> waiting for my fuel to get critical, I got my flight a clearance to head
> for
> Nagoya, fuel situation still okay. So far so good. A few minutes into
> heading that way, I was "ordered" by ATC to reverse course. Nagoya was
> saturated with traffic and unable to handle more planes (read- airport
> full). Ditto for Osaka. With that statement, my situation went instantly
> from fuel okay, to fuel minimal considering we might have to divert a much
> farther distance. Multiply my situation by a dozen other aircraft all in
> the
> same boat, all making demands requests and threats to ATC for clearances
> somewhere. Air Canada and then someone else went to "emergency" fuel
> situation. Planes started to heading for air force bases. The nearest to
> Tokyo was Yokoda AFB. I threw my hat in the ring for that initially. The
> answer - Yokoda closed! no more space.
>
> By now it was a three ring circus in the cockpit, my copilot on the
> radios,
> me flying and making decisions and the relief copilot buried in the air
> charts trying to figure out where to go that was within range while data
> link messages were flying back and forth between us and company dispatch
> in
> Atlanta. I picked Misawa AFB at the north end of Honshu island. We could
> get
> there with minimal fuel remaining. ATC was happy to get rid of us so we
> cleared out of the maelstrom of the Tokyo region. We heard ATC try to send
> planes toward Sendai, a small regional airport on the coast which was
> later
> the one I think that got flooded by a tsunami.
>
> Atlanta dispatch then sent us a message asking if we could continue to
> Chitose airport on the Island of Hokkaido, north of Honshu. Other Delta
> planes were heading that way. More scrambling in the cockpit - check
> weather, check charts, check fuel, okay. We could still make it and not be
> going into a fuel critical situation ... if we had no other fuel delays.
> As
> we approached Misawa we got clearance to continue to Chitose. Critical
> decision thought process. Let's see - trying to help company - plane
> overflies perfectly good divert airport for one farther away...wonder how
> that will look in the safety report, if anything goes wrong.
>
>
> Suddenly ATC comes up and gives us a vector to a fix well short of Chitose
> And tells us to standby for holding instructions. Nightmare realized.
> Situation rapidly deteriorating. After initially holding near Tokyo,
> starting a divert to Nagoya, reversing course back to Tokyo then to
> re-diverting north toward Misawa, all that happy fuel reserve that I had
> was
> vaporizing fast. My subsequent conversation, paraphrased of course....,
> went
> something like this:
> "Sapparo Control - Delta XX requesting immediate clearance direct to
> Chitose, minimum fuel, unable hold."
>
>
> "Negative"

Sapparo Control - make that - Delta XX declaring emergency, low fuel,
> proceeding direct Chitose"
>
> Roger Delta XX, understood, you are cleared direct to Chitose, contact
> Chitose approach....etc...."
>
>
> Enough was enough, I had decided to preempt actually running critically
> low on fuel while in another indefinite holding pattern, especially after
> bypassing Misawa, and played my last ace...declaring an emergency. The
> problem with that is now I have a bit of company paperwork to do but what
> the heck.
> As it was - landed Chitose, safe, with at least 30 minutes of fuel
> remaining
> before reaching a "true" fuel emergency situation. That's always a good
> feeling, being safe. They taxied us off to some remote parking area where
> we
> shut down and watched a half dozen or more other airplanes come streaming
> in.
>
> In the end, Delta had two 747s, my 767 and another 767 and a 777 all on
> the
> ramp at Chitose. We saw two American airlines planes, a United and two Air
> Canada as well. Not to mention several extra Al Nippon and Japan Air Lines
> planes.
> Post-script - 9 hours later, Japan air lines finally got around to getting
> A boarding ladder to the plane where we were able to get off and clear
> customs. - that however, is another interesting story.
>
> By the way - while writing this - I have felt four additional tremors that
> Shook the hotel slightly - all in 45 minutes.
>
>
> Cheers !


User currently offlinecaribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1637 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4316 times:

Wow.. fascinating indeed! Glad they got down safely.. I was so consumed with the earthquake/tsunami story I never stopped to think of ATC issues and the logistics of getting every plane en route to Tokyo down safely.. an amazing story.

[Edited 2011-03-18 04:55:10]

User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4195 times:

I've received the same e-mail listed as coming from a United B747 captain, a Delta B767 captian and an American B767 captain.

Sounds fake to me - especially since we've heard zero in the past week from other sources about such diversions.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7401 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4088 times:

Quoting AAExecPlat (Reply 3):
Although that may be true, radiation accumulates, so persistent exposure to low level radiation can still be harmful. That is far different than a short burst of (more powerful) X-Rays.

This is why radiation is measured in mSv/y or millisieverts per year.

An annual radiological medical examination can expose an individual to between 0.04 and 1.0 mSv/y.

The average worldwide exposure to natural radiation sources is said to be 2.4 mSv/y. Here in the UK the average exposure is lower at 1.0 mSv/y. However this figure varies widely with topography and geology. In a survey back in the late 1980s the maximum level of local exposure in the UK was found to be in eastern Sedgemoor in Somerset in southwest England. There it was 56 mSv/y.

The maximum level I have seen reported from the Japanese tragedy at the site of the damaged reactor is 400 mSv/h (millesieverts per hour). But the figures for Tokyo are below or similar to the natural levels at Sedgemoor.

Quoting sw733 (Reply 4):
Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that the UK government HAS advised citizens to leave parts of Japan, including Tokyo proper

Our media do tend to pick and choose the more sensational items and quote them out of context. The UK Foreign Office web site at:

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-...D853863D21ECA92682ABEE48C.tomcat11

says about Japan at this time:

"The most recent advice from the UK’s Chief Scientific Adviser remains that for those outside the exclusion zone set up by the Japanese authorities there is currently no real human health issue that people should be concerned about. This advice is kept under constant review."

However the Foreign Office has suggested that British citizens in Tokyo who have no essential reason for staying there shoud CONSIDER leaving as a precautionary measure (presumably because the future is more difficult to predict).

So there is clearly a wide gulf between actual threat and precautionary advice.

The same applies elsewhere. Yesterday the British government operated a relief flight between Bahrain and Dubai. It operated. But it had no passengers!


User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3806 times:

I arrived into ICN from IST earlier today:
Flight was about half full telling from a peek into Eco Class cabin.
Business Class of 22 seats had 10 pax + 1 Infant + 1 Staff.
_____________________________

Two Republique Francaise aircraft were at gates at ICN: one A340, one A310.
I am not sure if any of the other longhaul a/c I saw were not scheduled ones.

On the shuttle-bus ride to my hotel at Unseo I was joined by a AF staff, an experienced station manager. He has been sent from Paris to ICN to help the resident station manager coping with demand due to evacuation flights from Japan.
Unfortunately he is staying at another hotel, so no potential source of information ...
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineBogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 818 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3680 times:

Colombia´s government has sent this morning a KC767 from the Colombian Air Force via SEA to pickup in two flights around 400 Colombian citizens wishing to leave Japan. This evacuation program will also include a KC707 that will depart tomorrow for SEA to receive the first group of pax coming in from Japan, while the KC767 will return from SEA to Japan to pick up the rest of pax and bring them back to BOG. The planes will depart Colombia with aid from the Colombian government for Japan including iodine, powder milk and other non-perishables requested by the Japanese Embassy in Bogota.

User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10351 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2794 times:

Quoting rscaife1682 (Reply 16):

Here's a story that I've got in my e-mail:


"We were at the gate onboard ship 7001 with passenger boarding in progress when the earthquake began. My F/O, Joe Haggerty, had taken his seat and I was standing behind the center radio console when the airplane began shaking. Initially thought it was wind gusts but ruled that out since it had been calm when we left the hotel. Jet blast from a taxiing aircraft? Nope, look, the terminal windows are flexing and the building is...moving! It's an earthquake...immediately, in a brilliant display of airmanship, Joe reached over and set the parking brake. It seemed quite possible that we could jump our wheel chocks and roll into something hard. After a minute of this, the shaking got much worse and lasted about 2 1/2 minutes total. Our passengers intuitively decided that the safest place in all of this was on the aircrart and not in the terminal or the jetway. Never seen 261 people board a 777 so quickly! Two long and impressive aftershocks followed during the next hour. Narita closed it's runways and our inbound flights began diverting. 281 from Atlanta was about 10 minutes from landing and diverted to Nagoya. Hanada and Narita were both closed. They evacuated everyone from the Narita terminals deeming the structures unsafe for occupancy. The Narita tower was evacuated, Narita Approach Control was evacuated. At about 4pm, the airport was notam'd closed "until 0600 tomorrow morning". So, Delta cancelled us and all of the other flights out of Narita.

Well.........there was only one "safe area" established at the airport (outside in a cold rain) where passengers could be taken if they deplaned. It became full. There was no chance of deplaning into the terminal. No chance of deplaning at all. No ground transportation as all busses and trains were shut down and the highways had been closed. So, Delta calls the Narita Airport Authority and suggests that since the runway had been inspected, it might be a real good idea to allow 6 Delta departures and get maybe 1,400 customers out of this mess. They agreed and after a four hour wait at the gate, we got out of there. On departure we could see four distinct, large fires in downtown Tokyo, 50 miles to the south. A refinery was on fire at the coastline to our east. We had no real idea of the size of the disaster until we had a datalink discussion with our dispatcher who filled us in. Now, watching the news at home, I am stunned at the devastation. All Delta crews and employees are safe and uninjured in Japan. I am not sure if the layover hotel has power. I'm glad I'm not in room 932 anymore with the aftershocks that they are getting.

Happy to be home and thanks for your concern. "



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2374 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 22):
Here's a story that I've got in my e-mail:

&

Quoting rscaife1682 (Reply 16):
Just got this in my company e mail not sure if it has been posted in the forums.

Thank you guy for sharing these two insights.
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
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