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Lufthansa Acquired BMI But Not BMI Baby?  
User currently offlinebrandoncondict From Canada, joined Mar 2011, 3 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7807 times:

While roaming the Chattanooga Business Expo, yesterday, I met a marketing person from Lufthansa. We were discussing all sorts of topics, including the airline's ownership of Austrian, Swiss, and BMI. Neither of us knew why BMI Baby wasn't acquired/did its own thing.

Any insight…?

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJER757 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 350 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7766 times:

WW is part of the bmi group, LH acquired the entire bmi group and therefore own bmibaby.

Not sure why they weren't mentioned in your meeting with the LH person, but there has been plenty of discussion on this forum (and others) as to the future of WW within LH. This has included interlining/merging with Germanwings to replacing the ageing 735/733 fleets with A32x a/c to shutting the whole operation down altogether.

Up until now the cards have been held pretty close to their chest, WW continue to operate with a fairly small number of aircraft with little in the way of planned expansion. Rumours are abound that ex LH/BD 319s are to transfer to WW, but nothing official has been announced yet.



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User currently offlineFly-K From Germany, joined May 2000, 3162 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7335 times:
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If this colleague of mine was ill-informed about WW, I hope/wonder that at least he/she knew more about the other group airlines...  


Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
User currently offlinethediplomat From Ireland, joined Jun 2006, 382 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7205 times:

Quoting Fly-K (Reply 2):
I hope/wonder that at least he/she knew more about the other group airlines...

To be fair to the Lufthansa rep at the

Quoting brandoncondict (Thread starter):
Chattanooga Business Expo

Why does the person need to know anything about a 13 fleet airline flying point to point routes from secondary uk cities that are many miles removed from Chattanooga business needs. Never mind bmibaby The closest that Bmi fly to Chatanooga is probably Dublin, Ireland.

At least the person has heard of Bmi. When checking into star alliance flights in regional airports in Asia they just look blankly at the diamond club card that fails to even mention the airline name on the front.


User currently offlinejamesontheroad From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 555 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6980 times:

Quoting thediplomat (Reply 3):
At least the person has heard of Bmi. When checking into star alliance flights in regional airports in Asia they just look blankly at the diamond club card that fails to even mention the airline name on the front.

Asia? I've had enough difficulties in North America, where US and UA lounge dragons (whose airline's flights carry BD codeshares) don't even recognise BMI...


User currently offlineFly-K From Germany, joined May 2000, 3162 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6736 times:
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Quoting thediplomat (Reply 3):
Why does the person need to know anything

I think a LH sales rep, no matter where in the world, should know which airlines are part of the group - and I'm sure most do!



Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6236 times:

Quoting thediplomat (Reply 3):
To be fair to the Lufthansa rep at the

Quoting brandoncondict (Thread starter):
Chattanooga Business Expo

Why does the person need to know anything about a 13 fleet airline flying point to point routes from secondary uk cities that are many miles removed from Chattanooga business needs. Never mind bmibaby The closest that Bmi fly to Chatanooga is probably Dublin, Ireland.

Sorry......to be fair????? A representative of any company should have (and be expected to have) in-depth knowledge of his/her company. Most certainly he/she should be expected to know that Bmibaby is part of Lufthansa!!!! Without such knowledge how then does that employee satisfy his/her role as the company representative? Indeed, are you trying to say that no-one from Chatanooga (or anywhere else) would have a need to fly to what you commonly refer to anywhere outside London as UK secondary cities.


User currently offlinePHX Flyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 604 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5398 times:

I think not knowing about BMI Baby is absolutely excusable in this case. BMI Baby plays absolutely no role in Lufthansa's strategic plans. BMI Baby has announced a complete withdrawal from the German market, so any talk about interlining are just pipedreams. Sooner or later BMI Baby will go away, or at least lose its affiliation with Lufthansa.

User currently offlinebwaflyer From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4893 times:

page 90 Lufthansa Annual Report 2010 - my bolding

British Midland
British Midland 1) 2)
2010 Change in %
Revenue €m 896
Operating result €m – 145
EBITDA €m – 117
Passengers carried thousands 6,194
Employees as of 31.12. number 3,613
1) More information on British Midland can be found at flybmi.com
2) British Midland has been fully consolidated since 1 July 2009.

bmi successfully integrated into the Lufthansa Group
Since November 2009 Lufthansa has been the sole shareholder of British Midland Ltd. (bmi) via the British holding company LHBD Holding Ltd. In 2010 the company was successfully integrated into the Lufthansa Group. At the same time extensive restructuring was carried out to bring bmi to profitability in the medium term.

Three airlines with the UK as their core market
The bmi group consists of three airlines – British Midland International, bmi Regional and bmibaby, which each cover different markets and customer groups. The core markets for all three airlines are situated in the UK.

British Midland International is a classical airline and its route network covers destinations in its domestic UK market, Europe, the CIS states, the Middle East and Africa from London Heathrow. The slots at London Heathrow airport are of considerable strategic value for the group. Over the course of the reporting year routes within the UK were abandoned in favour of new routes to neighbouring countries and to the Middle East in order to correspond with the earnings-optimised reorientation of the network.

With its Embraer fleet bmi Regional offers short-haul flights within the UK and Europe. Its high-quality product and excellent punctuality are aimed particularly at business travellers. The airline’s charter business delivers positive earnings contributions.

With 14 aircraft from the Boeing 737 family, bmibaby operates as a low-cost airline, primarily from East Midlands airport and Birmingham airport, where it has a strong market presence. In 2010 flights from East Midlands to Germany were also added
to the route network.


Restructuring efforts show results
The restructuring of bmi progressed to plan in the reporting year. This involved reducing the number of planes by 10 and cutting capacity significantly. The productivity of the aircraft has been increased at the same time. The redundancies linked to the restructuring were completed over the course of the year; a total
of around 750 jobs were cut. Further cost-cutting measures also started to be effective and contributed to the earnings improvement.The targets set for revenue were not met in full, partly because of extraordinary external factors (for example the repeated airspace closures and weather-related airport closures). Economic developments in the UK are still subject to a high degree of uncertainty.This, together with the strong presence of no-frills carriers in the domestic UK market, means that average yields there are persistently low. On the other hand, routes to Europe, the Middle East and the CIS states are continuing to report positive performances. As its route network is limited to short-haul and medium-haul routes, bmi has not been able to benefit from the global upswing in intercontinental traffic, however.

Furthermore, flight cancellations due to the airspace closures and the disadvantageous pound sterling exchange rate both depressed earnings. Overall bmi generated revenue equivalent to EUR 896m in 2010 and reported an operating loss of EUR 145m.

Over the course of the year the sales integration with the Lufthansa Group was completed in all major markets outside the UK, so that in future the company will be able to benefit from Lufthansa’s larger distribution network. In addition, capital expenditure on product quality was planned, particularly for fleet and cabin equipment as well as IT management systems.

The company’s financial profile was strengthened in July 2010 via the conversion of a short-term loan of GBP 45m from Lufthansa into equity.

The strategy of replacing loss-making short-haul routes with more profitable ones in neighbouring markets and in medium-haul is to be pursued. At the same time steps will be taken to ensure that the company’s slots at London Heathrow are preserved. The plan to fly with bmi Regional from England to the Lufthansa Group hubs has been intensified.

The medium-term outlook is positive
Due to the structural situation at bmi the operating result for 2011 is still expected to be negative, while the target of returning to profitability in the medium term has been reiterated.

page 90 Lufthansa Annual Report 2010


User currently offlinethediplomat From Ireland, joined Jun 2006, 382 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4748 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 6):
are you trying to say that no-one from Chatanooga (or anywhere else) would have a need to fly to what you commonly refer to anywhere outside London as UK secondary cities.

What a wierd comment. Of course people from "anywhere else" would have a need to fly bmibaby. However,

I can safely wager that the number of people at the Chatanooga Business Expo who had a burning desire to hop onto a bmibaby 733 from east midlands to Malta is exactly zero. I'd say that even if bmibaby had sponsored the event, and offered 50% discounts on tickets, the sum total of all their sales at the event would be zero. The LH rep correctly remembers all there is to know that is important for his customers. What % of ownership LH have in BD and BD have in WW isn't at all important.

But, maybe I'm wrong Unum (headquartered in Chattanooga, TN) has an office in Dorking, England. Maybe they are trying to save money and insisting all their London staff flying to Belfast have to fly from Stansted. That sales rep should be dismissed.

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 6):
would have a need to fly to what you commonly refer to anywhere outside London as UK secondary cities.

Isn't London the primary city in the UK? If so Manchester, Birmingham, etc are secondary cities.


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4225 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3830 times:

Quoting thediplomat (Reply 9):
Isn't London the primary city in the UK? If so Manchester, Birmingham, etc are secondary cities.

Any city outside the Capital City is a Secondary City obviously.

Additionally, given that BMI Baby are not part of the "Network Operation" at LH Group or Star Alliance, there is zero need for any mention of it in Chatanooga I'd imagine. Further, it would be very unlikely that any sales rep would have been briefed on an airline with which there is no operational relationship with Mainline Lufthansa.

[Edited 2011-03-18 12:59:11]


Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinedavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7437 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3264 times:
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Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 10):
Any city outside the Capital City is a Secondary City obviously.

So SYD services a secondary city but CBR is the one airlines flock to as it's a capital city and the one the likes of Sydney and Melbourne are "inferior" ?


User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3038 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3179 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 10):
Any city outside the Capital City is a Secondary City obviously.

Bit simplistic.

Frankfurt is no capital, neither New York, Milan is bigger and economically more powerful than Rome, as inferred above Sydney is not the Australian capital and for that matter Johannesburg is not the South African capital, howevwer all these places have airport services and economies that outstrip their requisite political capital city by a country mile.

Franky the powerhouses of London and Paris with their centralistic governments and economical dominion over their national economies are more unusual.


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4225 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3013 times:

Never said anything about inferior David, thats your insecurity. OK, allow me rephrase, anything outside the capital or principal city is by definition secondary.


Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7737 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2572 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 6):
A representative of any company should have (and be expected to have) in-depth knowledge of his/her company.

This is often really not possible, particularly in those companies, like Lufthansa, that have relatively diverse activities.

For example I suspect that relatively few of LH's German FAs who are the front line representatives of the airline, have an "in depth knowledge" of the avtivities of Hawker Pacific Aerospace of Sun Valley. Indeed I would not be surprised if more than a few know that it is a Lufthansa Technik wholly owned subsidiary.


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