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Last Continental Aircraft To Be Delivered?  
User currently offlineCALTECH From Poland, joined May 2007, 2195 posts, RR: 25
Posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11913 times:

Continental Airlines took delivery of Acft #530 last Wednesday, and Acft #531 on Friday. BSI interiors are on both Acft. There is a 737-900ER scheduled to arrive in April, it will have the BSI interior also. This 737-900ER Acft maybe the last Acft to be delivered to Continental.

There is another 737-800 to be delivered in August, this one will probably be delivered with a United Airlines registration if the Single Operating Certificate is in place by then.

Pretty sure 530 and 531 still were registered to Continental Airlines, haven't been at MCOMX North Hangar for a while. Had United Airlines Airbus A-319/320 training in EWR, and United Airlines Boeing 757, 767, and 777 Differences Training. Lots of meshing to be done. Continental Airlines had mainly GE (CFM) and Rolls-Royce engines, United is Pratt & Whitney and IAE.

We at Continental Airlines are now known as ex-Cons.

The United Airlines Technicians have a TA for their new contract.

Continental MX Computer programs have been said to have been picked for the new United MX system. Intriguing that United Airlines have no physical logbooks on board their Acft.


UNITED We Stand
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11826 times:

Does Continental have any more aircraft either on order or option from Boeing? Will these be delivered, even if in UA registration as -22's or -24's?

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16824 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 11582 times:

CALTECH,

Any word on where the combined carriers main maintenance bases will be located, where will UA's A319s/A320s/757s go for maintenance?.. What will MCO be doing in the future, same for HOU and SFO.

Quoting milesrich (Reply 1):
Does Continental have any more aircraft either on order or option from Boeing?

50 firm orders for 737s (any type), plus 25 787 firms orders (11 787-8, 14 787-9). Plus many options for both 737s and 787s.

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/...pageid=m25064&RequestTimeout=20000



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineCALTECH From Poland, joined May 2007, 2195 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 11582 times:

Believe after this year, the 787 are the only ones on order, for now. The 787s will be delivered as United Airlines aircraft.

So much is up in the air, do not know if they will be delivered as -22s or -24s. Will check on 530 and 531 soon.



UNITED We Stand
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1540 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 11581 times:

I think the plane that will be delivered in August is 528 which has been completed and flying for a while. CO is letting Boeing use it for some sort of testing (I can't remember what it was). So I'm guessing that will be the last CO aircraft delivered.


717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2072 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 11482 times:

I would suspect that 737s might still be delivered as 737-824/737-924ER aircraft, even after the merger, and keep registrations in the CO series (i.e. five digits rather than three digits suffixed UA).

The CO ordered 787 aircraft could likely be delivered as 787-822s - though we're all assuming that the new United will continue to use the 22 Boeing customer code. As the UA name is living on, and the majority of Boeing aircraft on order were ordered by CO, could the 24 customer code live on for the new carrier?



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2588 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 11369 times:

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 5):
As the UA name is living on, and the majority of Boeing aircraft on order were ordered by CO, could the 24 customer code live on for the new carrier?

If the same logic were used as with the paint jobs, then maybe new aircraft from Boeing would be X24 and Airbus designations would be UA units.

Does Boeing care which number is used, probably not, but CO has been a better client in recent years.

According to AirFleets

X24 units in service
737 239
757 50 (Note 12 of the 753s are 757-33N (ATA units)
767 26
777 22
Total X24 units = 327
X24 units on order = I think 50 firm 737s and 25 787s plus options

X22 units in service
747 24
757 96
767 35
777 52
Total X22 units = 207
X22 units on order = 25 787s plus an option for up to 50 more

OK, will we now have a thread on how important the X22 Boeing code is if the X24 code is kept?

I know it doesn't have anything to do with it, but the CO operating certificate will be used for the merged carrier.


User currently offlineEagleboy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1797 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 11298 times:
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Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 6):
I know it doesn't have anything to do with it, but the CO operating certificate will be used for the merged carrier.

So it a sense CO is still operating but has changed name to UA?


User currently offlineCALTECH From Poland, joined May 2007, 2195 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 11279 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 2):
Any word on where the combined carriers main maintenance bases will be located, where will UA's A319s/A320s/757s go for maintenance?.. What will MCO be doing in the future, same for HOU and SFO.

So much is being discussed, hard to say what the future MX outlook will be. MX bases around the country are nice, more choices for everyone. Things will probably stay somewhat the same for a while. Sounds like MCOMX is safe for now. HOU, that is Hobby, has been said to be closing ever since 1985 ! , and probably talked about being closed before that. IAH has a big operation, can't see that going anywhere else for now. Same for EWR and SFO. Continental and United really do have two different ways of doing maintenance, the meshing of the two will be interesting.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 2):
50 firm orders for 737s (any type), plus 25 787 firms orders (11 787-8, 14 787-9). Plus many options for both 737s and 787s.

These should all be United Airlines deliveries. The 737-900ER to be delivered in April seems it will be the last Continental bird delivered as such, though it will be painted with United on the fuselage. Though 528 is still out there, as below.The 737-900ER should be the last one built as a ex-Con aircraft.

Quoting FL787 (Reply 4):
I think the plane that will be delivered in August is 528 which has been completed and flying for a while. CO is letting Boeing use it for some sort of testing (I can't remember what it was). So I'm guessing that will be the last CO aircraft delivered.

Rumor was carbon brakes and a few other new and improved systems ? Wonder if 528 has BSI fitted to it ?



UNITED We Stand
User currently offlineCALTECH From Poland, joined May 2007, 2195 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 11242 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 6):
Does Boeing care which number is used, probably not, but CO has been a better client in recent years.

Will be interesting what aircraft will be ordered for narrow body fleet renewal. The United folks said their aircraft are older. Seeing some of the systems installed, they do seem archaic.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 6):
I know it doesn't have anything to do with it, but the CO operating certificate will be used for the merged carrier.

It was reported that the United Airlines certificate had many liabilities involved with it, for example, retirement pensions.

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 7):
So it a sense CO is still operating but has changed name to UA?

Yes, but we will be United.



UNITED We Stand
User currently offlineboeing12345 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 11090 times:

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 8):
Rumor was carbon brakes and a few other new and improved systems ? Wonder if 528 has BSI fitted to it ?

Yes it does have BSI installed and I believe they actually are using it for powerplant testing...reduction in fuel burn with upgrade to the CFM56.


User currently offlineCALTECH From Poland, joined May 2007, 2195 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 10432 times:

Quoting boeing12345 (Reply 10):

Yes it does have BSI installed and I believe they actually are using it for powerplant testing...reduction in fuel burn with upgrade to the CFM56.

Ah thanks. This must be #528.

http://www.cfm56.com/press/news/cfm5...tification+program+on+schedule/522



UNITED We Stand
User currently offlineDC8FanJet From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8620 times:

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 9):
It was reported that the United Airlines certificate had many liabilities involved with it, for example, retirement pensions.

CO certificate is being used as it is simpler. An operating certificate doesn't have ANYTHING to do with pensions.

UA maintenance certificate will be used, as United has more approved maintenance capabilities.


User currently offlineCALTECH From Poland, joined May 2007, 2195 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8116 times:

Quoting DC8FanJet (Reply 12):
An operating certificate doesn't have ANYTHING to do with pensions.

No need to emphasize it, but many in the financial and government world think it really does.

http://www.pionline.com/article/20100723/REG/100729918
"When the PBGC took over the UAL plans, they were underfunded by $9.8 billion, and only $6.6 billion of that was guaranteed."

http://www.2339c.org/january_12,_2007.htm
" When United was in bankruptcy they cut a deal with the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC), the government agency that insures defined benefit pension plans, to terminate all of United’s pensions. As part of the arrangement, United is prohibited from establishing any new pension plans for a ten-year period. United went to great lengths to dispose of the pension plans it sponsored and dump their liabilities on the U.S. government. United will not take over sponsorship of CARP or any other pension plan. "

http://www.pionline.com/apps/pbcs.dl...=continental%20airlines%20pensions
"UAL+Continental = $9.6 billion in retirement assets ."

Which does mean if it were United Airline's Operating Certificate that survived, All Ex-Cons would have lost their pensions. Not good for the merger and integration.



UNITED We Stand
User currently offlineadxmatt From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 950 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7571 times:

Quoting CALTECH (Thread starter):
There is another 737-800 to be delivered in August, this one will probably be delivered with a United Airlines registration if the Single Operating Certificate is in place by then.

SOC will not happen until the end of the year. With the SOC it means that both legacy United and legacy COA will be using the same manuals, procedures etc.

All deliveries from Boeing this year will be on the CO side and flown by lagacy CO pilots.

The 2 companies will be operating side by side well into 2012. There is still a long way to go before all the airframes are interchangeable and flown as 1 carrier.


User currently offlineDC8FanJet From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7288 times:

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 13):
Which does mean if it were United Airline's Operating Certificate that survived, All Ex-Cons would have lost their pensions. Not good for the merger and integration.



You are confusing Operating Certificate & Corporate structure. The surviving company is UAL Corp. As you
correctly state, there can be no "new" pension plans. The existing Continental plans are not involved.

The choice of CO operating certificate was due to the fact that it is essentially FAA language, a result of the
choices made when the Texas Air carriers were merged into Continental.

Again, there is absolutely no connection between operating certificate and pensions.


User currently offlinejohnclipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 837 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7244 times:

So will UA "016" prefix or CO "005" prefix survive for ticket stock and MAWB issuace?

User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5930 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6708 times:

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 13):
Which does mean if it were United Airline's Operating Certificate that survived, All Ex-Cons would have lost their pensions. Not good for the merger and integration.

The operating certificate has absolutely nothing to do with the financial side of the company and would have absolutely no effect on PMCO pensions. Basically the operating certificate is an airlines licence to fly. It's issued by the FAA after reviewing policy and procedures set up at the airline and basically states that this company meets the minimum standards required for safe flight. PMUAs has been highly specialized/customized over the years vs PMCOs which is fairly generic....quite frankly its simply easier for the company to operate under PMCOs certificate. On the MTC side of things PMUAs repair certificate is surviving as UA is authorized to do quite a bit more in the way of maintenance then PMCOs certificate allows them to do.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9295 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6606 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 6):

Does Boeing care which number is used, probably not, but CO has been a better client in recent years.

I'm not sure i have ever seen the company that gets taken over have its code be the one that stays, my bet is it will be 22. (since after all that is the UA code)

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 6):
Airbus designations would be UA units.

err does AB have a code? I thought it was engine type that was the last two numbers of the AB codes.



yep.
User currently offlineSchweigend From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 592 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6511 times:

Quoting johnclipper (Reply 16):
So will UA "016" prefix or CO "005" prefix survive for ticket stock and MAWB issuace?

I think those designators come from ARC or IATA. For simplicity's sake, I think they'll go with 016 -- the new airline is called United, and agents world-over know UA as 016.

Quoting United1 (Reply 17):
PMUAs has been highly specialized/customized over the years vs PMCOs which is fairly generic....quite frankly its simply easier for the company to operate under PMCOs certificate. On the MTC side of things PMUAs repair certificate is surviving as UA is authorized to do quite a bit more in the way of maintenance then PMCOs certificate allows them to do.

Very clearly put. That is how I understand the situation to be.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 18):
I'm not sure i have ever seen the company that gets taken over have its code be the one that stays, my bet is it will be 22. (since after all that is the UA code)

All of the new airline's existing maintenance manuals and IPC's (Illustrated Parts Catalogs) for the 737NG aircraft are designated -x24. Any future 737 deliveries from Boeing will probably remain -x24s for that reason, to avoid MX confusion.

While MMs and IPCs have been written for the ordered 787s, those could all easily be changed from -824 to -822 prior to delivery.

Makes me wonder: does the 787 have an ID plate affixed inside the L1 door jamb, like most a/c do? One glance there always let's me know what the heck I'm riding on!  


User currently offlinecaljn From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5121 times:

Quoting CALTECH (Thread starter):
We at Continental Airlines are now known as ex-Cons.

Hilarious!   

The Continental I have known and admired low these many years no longer exists. Peace with acceptance.


User currently offlinecopter808 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1059 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4013 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 18):
I'm not sure i have ever seen the company that gets taken over have its code be the one that stays, my bet is it will be 22. (since after all that is the UA code)

Humor me, which one was "taken over?"

Why is it so difficult to understand that this was a MERGER of equals?


User currently offlinecopter808 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1059 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4007 times:

Quoting CALTECH (Thread starter):
We at Continental Airlines are now known as ex-Cons.

Makes me proud to say I'm a retired "Ex Con!!!"


User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3983 times:

Quoting copter808 (Reply 21):
Humor me, which one was "taken over?"
UA took over CO as UA shareholders came out with 55% of the new company.

Quoting copter808 (Reply 21):
Why is it so difficult to understand that this was a MERGER of equals?

That is a media/corporate spin, UA did technically purchase CO

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...03/us-united-idUSTRE64136420100503

-m

  

[Edited 2011-03-20 10:59:43]

User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1555 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3933 times:

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 23):
That is a media/corporate spin, UA did technically purchase CO

If you really want to be technical, UA's only part in this is being a bit over half the combined carrier when all is said and done. UAL Corp, which owns UA, purchased CO (and all wholly-owned subsidiaries thereof) via stock swap. It's a rather meaningless distinction in the real world, but quite a real one in legal terms. But that's being pedantic.

In the real world the two airlines are combining and no matter who bought whom on paper, the surviving airline looks a lot like Continental with a new name (so far).



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
25 copter808 : Let's see if Illinois actually issues "X CON II" to me! The system has accepted it pending review.
26 AADC10 : What pensions? United went on the dole by dumping all of its pension obligations on the Federal Government. Socialism for corporations, capitalism fo
27 charlienorth : You'll actually like it once you've started using it...the CAL amt's I've dealt with are impressed. I hear of "the letter kids" too Hope AIrbus schoo
28 Post contains links CALTECH : Think it will be before the end of the year. Seems this has been on a fast track for approval. Would be surprised if it took the standard 15-18 month
29 United1 : Indeed all of that is true...but the operating certificate has nothing to do with pensions. Commercial doesn't always refer to money/finances reading
30 TOMMY767 : All of the gates and signage still read continental including that HUGE sign outside the cargo building adjacent to I-78...
31 Post contains images CALTECH : I'll go with your line. So Continental Airlines will not be paying for my pension ? Is it United Van Lines that'll pay my pension ? Or Continental Ti
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