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Air France B744 Status And Future  
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7425 posts, RR: 57
Posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 17321 times:

Last year, Air France announced its intention to finally keep in service a fleet of 7 B744 until 2016 (instead of a full retirement in 2012/13).
Therefore, the cabin of those aircraft will be completely renovated and updated.

Air France recently confirmed and gave detailed information on that subject.

10 B744 will remain in service until the end of 2011. They are :

F-GEXB, F-GITD, F-GITE, F-GITF, F-GITH, F-GITI, F-GITJ and F-GEXA, F-GISD, F-GISC.

The last three reg. (XA, SD, SC) will be retired from service at the end of 2011/ early 2012.

The cabin of the 10 aircraft is progressively "renovated" (new galleys, new lavatories, new carpet, etc ...) but the Y+ Class "Permium Voyageur" wil not be installed in the B744.

In a second phase, starting in 2012, the 7 remaining B744 will be fitted with the last generation of Business Class seats, new Y seats, and PTV in all classes with the brand new Panasonic IFE system :

F-GEXB in April 2012
F-GITE in July 2012
F-GITD in June 2012
F-GITF in Sept. 2012
F-GITH / TI / TJ in Oct. 2012

Note that F-GITH / TI / TJ were the last B744 delivered to AF in 2000 and already have PTVs in all classes, with the current Rockwell & Collins IFE system.

The new cabin configuration will be 36J / 396Y (including 60Y at theupper deck).



46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline76er From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 571 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 17117 times:

Any word on the remaining freighters?

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8457 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 16882 times:
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When is Miami going from a 744 to a 77W?

User currently offlinecopa330200 From Panama, joined Jan 2011, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 16820 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
10 B744 will remain in service until the end of 2011

any idea where are going these aircraft ?? are they leased ??

are thy replaced by A380 and 77W ??



On the run !!!
User currently offlineicelandair75w From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 15841 times:

F-GITH/GITH/GITJ are the only planes worth keeping (loading wise). The rest of the planes are............. not that fantastic   

User currently offlineairproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 640 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks ago) and read 15383 times:

At least 2, maybe 3 B744 Freighters are also supposed to be keeped on the fleet for now.
Now idea of the reg though...



If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
User currently offlineairproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 640 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks ago) and read 15359 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):
When is Miami going from a 744 to a 77W?

Hopefully...Never..!  



If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7425 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 14669 times:

Quoting 76er (Reply 1):
Any word on the remaining freighters?
Quoting airproxx (Reply 5):
maybe 3 B744 Freighters are also supposed to be kept on the fleet for now.
Now idea of the reg though...

AF will keep 3 B744F in service until 2016 : F-GIUA / UC / UD

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):
When is Miami going from a 744 to a 77W?

Starting Oct. 30th 2011.

Quoting copa330200 (Reply 3):
are thy replaced by A380 and 77W ??

They are (and will be) replaced by B77W

Quoting copa330200 (Reply 3):
any idea where are going these aircraft ?? are they leased ??

Only the 3 Freighters and F-GITH / TI / TJ are leased (from ILFC). All the others are owned by AF.


User currently offlineSR4ever From Luxembourg, joined Mar 2010, 800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13304 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
Y+ Class "Permium Voyageur" wil not be installed in the B744.

Very strange, where are these 744 gonna fly.

All in all, AF longhaul flights feature a-tier offer:

- 4-class, full mainline offer (F, C, Y+ Premium, Y): 388, some 77W, some 77E

- 3-class mainline offer (C, Y+ Premium, Y): all 332/343, some 77E

- 2-class mainline offer (C, Y): all remaining 744

- 3-class COI offer: (C, Y+ Alizé, Y(-)  some 77W


User currently offlineCuriousFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 700 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 12686 times:

At least is does not look like they are moving to 11 seat accross Y, and 60 upstairs is unchanged. Nice bird,I wonder if the 747-8 will come later. But it is not like AF to renovate planes for 5 years only... and I would have liked PV!

User currently offlineAT From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 12668 times:

Quoting icelandair75w (Reply 4):
F-GITH/GITH/GITJ are the only planes worth keeping (loading wise). The rest of the planes are............. not that fantastic   

don't understand this-- what do you mean by loading-wise?


User currently offlineN593HA From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 12577 times:

What about service to SFO (AF0084/0083), will it be operated by 774 or 77W this summer?

Aloha
N593HA



Next trip: KL+NW to HNL
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7764 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 12480 times:

Are F-GITA/B/C is at Kemble?

User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4751 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 10896 times:

Quoting CuriousFlyer (Reply 9):



11 Across !


I don't think that is legal or done by anyone !


At least is does not look like they are moving to 11 seat accross Y, and 60 upstairs is unchanged. Nice bird,I wonder if the 747-8 will come later. But it is not like AF to renovate planes for 5 years only... and I would have liked PV!



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently onlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10837 times:

Quoting N593HA (Reply 11):
What about service to SFO (AF0084/0083), will it be operated by 774 or 77W this summer?

The latest adjustment sees AF is operating 10 weekly service from 07JUN11 to 27OCT11. However, from 05SEP11 – 27OCT11, Daily AF084/083 service sees 3-class Boeing 777-300ER replacing 747-400. With 777-300ER operating during this period, AF is offering Premium Voyageur service on the 777.



John@SFO
User currently offlineicelandair75w From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10810 times:

Quoting AT (Reply 10):
Quoting icelandair75w (Reply 4):
F-GITH/GITH/GITJ are the only planes worth keeping (loading wise). The rest of the planes are............. not that fantastic

don't understand this-- what do you mean by loading-wise?

F-GITH/ITJ/ITI all recieved a cargo compartment loading system upgrade similar to the Airbus PDU systems.. the old Boeing system is rubber wheels opposed to rollers, where the wheels lose rubber therefore loading is a major pain in the ass!   Only those 3 planes have the new updated system


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7425 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9961 times:

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 12):
Are F-GITA/B/C is at Kemble?

F-GITA :



F-GITC also has been dismantled at Kemble and F-GITB is waiting there for her fate.


User currently offlinecopa330200 From Panama, joined Jan 2011, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9259 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 16):
F-GITA :

very sad day   how many cycles had these machines F-GITC, F-GITA ??? are they really done or the worth more on pieces ?



On the run !!!
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8031 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9259 times:

I wonder has AF considered buying more 77W's to eventually replace the 744's. After all, the 77W uses the GE90-115, which has a lot of SNECMA components. I wouldn't be surprised that as early as this summer the AF flights 083/084 uses the 77W instead of a 744, unless it's already happened.

User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7425 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9194 times:

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 18):
wonder has AF considered buying more 77W's to eventually replace the 744's. After all, the 77W uses the GE90-115, which has a lot of SNECMA components. I wouldn't be surprised that as early as this summer the AF flights 083/084 uses the 77W instead of a 744, unless it's already happened.

An additional order for 13 B77W was placed a few years ago. They were due to replace the 13 B744 in service at that time
on a "1 for 1" basis between 2011 & 2013.

The first B7WW of these 13 a/c was delivered to AF in Nov. 2010, 3 more will be delivered before June 2011.
But in the meantime, AF decided to keep finally this small fleet of 7 B744 to face an increasing demand and growth.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8457 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9144 times:
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Quoting RayChuang (Reply 18):
I wonder has AF considered buying more 77W's to eventually replace the 744's.

Air France made the decision a long time ago its future long haul fleet was going to have many 777-300ER's to replace 744 and other types. The only other new airplane is the A380.


User currently offlineSR4ever From Luxembourg, joined Mar 2010, 800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 8783 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 19):
But in the meantime, AF decided to keep finally this small fleet of 7 B744 to face an increasing demand and growth.

AF may feel the pain for this choice, if crude oil remains on the rise.


User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2184 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 8736 times:

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 21):
AF may feel the pain for this choice, if crude oil remains on the rise.

Well, then even more so will their direct competitors BA and LH. They don't have just 7 744s...



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3949 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8461 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20):
Air France made the decision a long time ago its future long haul fleet was going to have many 777-300ER's to replace 744 and other types. The only other new airplane is the A380.

Maybe they'll change their mind about the 747-8i. 10 units to add to the fleet, very unlikely but not impossible. The 747-8i which flew yesterday out of Paine Field WA is powered with GEnx engines, AF focuses mainly on GE engines in its fleet so it can happen. The 747-8i fills the gap between the 77W and the A380. They might as well consider the 747-8F, I'm sure they have.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7425 posts, RR: 57
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 8205 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 23):
Maybe they'll change their mind about the 747-8i. 10 units to add to the fleet, very unlikely but not impossible. The 747-8i which flew yesterday out of Paine Field WA is powered with GEnx engines, AF focuses mainly on GE engines in its fleet so it can happen. The 747-8i fills the gap between the 77W and the A380. They might as well consider the 747-8F, I'm sure they have.

Even powered by GE, there is no chance to see the B747-8 in AF's fleet, unfortunately ...
AF is more than happy with the B777 and doesn't really need an intermediate capacity between the giant A380 for the biggest routes, and their "workhorse" B777 on the rest of the network.
Moreover, AF is not slot restricted at its ever growing CDG hub ... the 787 will probably replace in a medium term the A343 fleet and will complement perfectly the huge B777 fleet.


25 SR4ever : Why not the 359?.
26 FlySSC : No GE engines for the A350 = No A350 for AF ...
27 SR4ever : Why wouldn't they go for PW or RR?
28 kamboi : I flew AF B-777 last summer from CDG-BEY, and AF A340 SFO-CDG and return B744 CDG-SFO. This 744 did have PTV in all classes. one of my friend who flew
29 SKY1 : Thanks again SSC because this interesting updating I got a trend to think the GE engines' selection is only a mere excuse, and not very original if yo
30 CuriousFlyer : I have seen this... on AF. Their Y product on the 747s that flew to the Caribbean and the Indian Ocean (COI service) had this (3-5-3, nightmare). The
31 Viscount724 : Not correct. No 747s ever operated with 11-abreast seating. You could fit almost 600 seats on a 747 in a high-density 10-abreast configuration.
32 Post contains images mattteo : AF has never had this config on the COI . only 3-4-3 Regards
33 Post contains images TGV : Tell your friend to learn how to read ! Anyway I am very happy to know the 744 will remain, as it will give me the opportunity to still fly long-haul
34 FlySSC : Wrong. Air France NEVER had a 3x5x3 config. in any of its B747. Ever. This true that AF prefers Boeing for its widebody aircraft. however, the choice
35 CuriousFlyer : Maybe it was/is Corsair then. Sorry.
36 FlySSC : Nope ! Not Corsair ... Corsair's B747 were/are all in a 3x4x3 config with a 28" or 29" pitch ... Actually, I'm not sure that any airline ever operate
37 Post contains links Viscount724 : Correct. There would be no point. The 747-100 through 400 are restricted by their type certificate to 550 seats on the main deck and Boeing's website
38 trex8 : Snecma has no major interest in the GEnx program, unlike the CF6 or GE90 where they have like 20% + of the program. The only Safran/Snecma company wi
39 FlySSC : That's what many people think and I think that's a big mistake. Today's AF has nothing to do with the AF of 20 or 30 years ago. SNECMA or not SNECMA,
40 Aesma : Is it that clear ? It just seems to me they buy good available planes, it's not like they bought 767s when they could have A330s, nor short legged 77
41 CuriousFlyer : Thanks, I stand corrected.
42 FlySSC : True. And it's not a secret for anyone that AF always had much better relations with Boeing than with Airbus Air Inter was not allowed to buy the B72
43 bmacleod : AF is dead-set against the 747-8I, right? I mean the A380 and 77W won't leave any room for even a few 748i? Anyone know the status/future of YUL-CDG?
44 FlySSC : The A380 on CDG-YUL will start on April 22nd 2011. AF will operate 3 x DAILY flights this summer on CDG-YUL-CDG : AF344/345 - B77W AF346/347 - A380 A
45 trex8 : But this is a totally new engine type for them. Many other major carriers with a large diverse fleets have no problems changing engine vendors especi
46 SKY1 : That's very true. Even CX at the end, did change their traditional engines policy. But it's true in smaller airlines as well. IB, having 2 or 3 times
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