Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why Dosnt Delta Offer JFK-MEM At All  
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3471 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4373 times:

Why dosnt delta offer at least a JFK-MEM flight?

I would imagine that the misconnections and delays at JFK alone could warrant this flight on a CR7. What about all the people who live in MEM who want to connect to all of the European destinations out of JFK and misconnections and cancellations on that end as well.

Are these the only two domestic hubs without a hub airline flight between them? It seems like the traffic of these two cities could warrant at least a connection flight

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7195 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4362 times:

We discussed that in one of the OAG threads when the flight was cut. I think it is ridiculous that they don't fly it. Others made the argument that flying JFK would hurt the AMS non-stop from MEM. I argued that JFK has several unique routes vs. AMS.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4266 times:

JFK is not an attractive airport for domestic flights, EWR and LGA are the preferred airports for domestic travel in the NYC/NJ region. However B6 has made great inroads in changing perceptions.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7780 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4187 times:

On one-hand you'd think it would exist as a hub-to-hub flight. But how many destinations served from JFK are not available via AMS or ATL?


Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3483 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4160 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 3):
On one-hand you'd think it would exist as a hub-to-hub flight. But how many destinations served from JFK are not available via AMS or ATL?

That's the key. DL did fly MEM-JFK a few years ago. They obviously cancelled it for a reason. How many passengers are flying from MEM to somewhere not accessible by JFK, ATL, or AMS? I venture the answer is close to zero. It's much better to move the flight to somewhere with more O&D and less access to the European markets, like BNA or SAT, both of which recently gained service to JFK.

Jeremy


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4111 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 3):
On one-hand you'd think it would exist as a hub-to-hub flight. But how many destinations served from JFK are not available via AMS or ATL?

It has nothing to do with connections, it's the lack of local traffic. MEM has 5 daily flights to EWR (3 CO, 2 DL) and none to JFK.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7780 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4041 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
It has nothing to do with connections, it's the lack of local traffic. MEM has 5 daily flights to EWR (3 CO, 2 DL) and none to JFK.

We are actually arguing the same point. It is the combo of lack of local traffic (already well covered by services to LGA and EWR) and lack of unique connections opportunities at JFK that doom MEM-JFK. The only reason why MEM-JFK would exist is as a hub-to-hub flight. But if those connections are already well served via AMS or ATL then there is no reason for such a flight to exist.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2701 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3865 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Thread starter):
Why dosnt delta offer at least a JFK-MEM flight?

I would imagine that the misconnections and delays at JFK alone could warrant this flight on a CR7

My question may answer yours. Does the Delta scope clause allow connection carriers to operate hub-to-hub flights? This might be the case if the connection carrier is not allowed to fly the route and there is not enough traffic to justify a mainline aircraft.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7195 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3688 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 2):
JFK is not an attractive airport for domestic flights, EWR and LGA are the preferred airports for domestic travel in the NYC/NJ region.

Yes, but they wouldn't be flying it for locals. The same is true of all of their short-haul JFK feed.

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 3):
On one-hand you'd think it would exist as a hub-to-hub flight. But how many destinations served from JFK are not available via AMS or ATL?

We did this in the other thread and there are more than you'd think. There's about 10.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 4):
That's the key. DL did fly MEM-JFK a few years ago. They obviously cancelled it for a reason.

Because they are trying to save the MEM-AMS flight which is surely challenged by the hubs shrinkage.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
It has nothing to do with connections, it's the lack of local traffic.

Again, that's true of almost all of the DL feed operation at JFK.

Quoting bohica (Reply 7):
My question may answer yours. Does the Delta scope clause allow connection carriers to operate hub-to-hub flights? This might be the case if the connection carrier is not allowed to fly the route and there is not enough traffic to justify a mainline aircraft.

CVG routinely has RJs on hub flights. Is it not a hub any more from a contract point of view?


User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7780 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3503 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 8):
We did this in the other thread and there are more than you'd think. There's about 10.

If you have a link to that thread I'd be interested to see that. BUT.... how many pax per day or even per week are there between MEM and those 10 unique to JFK destinations. While I am willing to concede that the presence of MEM-JFK may improve those numbers somewhat, at the end of the day I'd suspect it was low enough that the few people that did fly that could do with a double connect to get to JFK or another connecting point outside of NA.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlinesimairlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3471 times:

Just did a check...here's what you lose as far as European connections:
-Athens (some available in summer via ATL)
-Istanbul
-Malaga (only flown in summer)
-Pisa (only flown in summer)
-Shannon
-Valencia (only flown in summer)

And on the U.S. side:
-Amarillo (closing soon anyways)
-Dallas (Love)
-Ft. Smith
-Lubbock
-McAllen
-Tupelo

Maybe some missing, but I think you see the point. I also find it quite unusual, but it doesn't have a huge impact.

Lastly, the MEM evening bank kicks off at 1855. An aircraft must leave JFK no later than 1520 in order to successfully connect. This only allows the first bank of transatlantic arrivals (AMS, BRU, DUB, MAD, MXP, NCE), and barely. All of those destinations can be flown via AMS or ATL.


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3381 times:

Quoting simairlinenet (Reply 10):
-Athens (some available in summer via ATL)
-Istanbul
-Malaga (only flown in summer)
-Pisa (only flown in summer)
-Shannon
-Valencia (only flown in summer)

And on the U.S. side:
-Amarillo (closing soon anyways)
-Dallas (Love)
-Ft. Smith
-Lubbock
-McAllen
-Tupelo

McAllen is now served only out of Atlanta; MEM was dropped earlier this month. Considering Dallas has options still at DFW, and it's really only three markets going forward that are lost state-side - Lubbock, Ft. Smith and Tupelo. The fact that pretty much any European city out of those three are going to require a double connect (unless going to LHR, FRA, CDG, MAD or AMS) negates things quite a bit for those three airports.


User currently offlinerwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3105 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3069 times:

Quoting simairlinenet (Reply 10):
-Athens (some available in summer via ATL)
-Istanbul

Both of those are one-stops via AMS.


User currently offlinem404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3019 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I just say that since DL tried it twice and withdrew it twice it did not meet their hopes and desires. Pure and simple.
They can use the ship elsewhere to displace a mainline flight, throw more into the LAX mix, or pit it against AA somewhere.



Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2961 times:

Quoting simairlinenet (Reply 10):

Lastly, the MEM evening bank kicks off at 1855. An aircraft must leave JFK no later than 1520 in order to successfully connect.

Even with the 1 hour time zone change? If you figure a flight arrives at MEM at 1820 local, that means 1920 in JFK. JFK-MEM would not be a 4 hour flight block.


User currently offlineDTWLAX From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 796 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2714 times:

Quoting simairlinenet (Reply 10):
Just did a check...here's what you lose as far as European connections:
-Athens (some available in summer via ATL)
-Istanbul
-Malaga (only flown in summer)
-Pisa (only flown in summer)
-Shannon
-Valencia (only flown in summer)

Athens and Istanbul can be done via AMS with a 1-stop.
Regarding the other 4 cities, they do not have service even from AMS on KLM. If KLM cannot fill planes to those cities with intra-Europe pax, I cannot see how pax from MEM can do that


User currently offlinebhmdiversion From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 460 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2481 times:

Quoting bohica (Reply 7):
My question may answer yours. Does the Delta scope clause allow connection carriers to operate hub-to-hub flights? This might be the case if the connection carrier is not allowed to fly the route and there is not enough traffic to justify a mainline aircraft.

Pinnacle flies a CR9 from MEM-ATL, and vice versa each day.


User currently offlinesimairlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2347 times:

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 15):
Athens and Istanbul can be done via AMS with a 1-stop.

Thanks, I included them because they don't show up as connections on the Delta Timetable program, I think due to the long connection. Who would want to actually do this?

Next week's schedule
MEM-AMS arrive 11.35 depart 20.30 AMS-ATH
MEM-AMS arrive 11.35 depart 20.25 AMS-IST

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 14):
Even with the 1 hour time zone change? If you figure a flight arrives at MEM at 1820 local, that means 1920 in JFK. JFK-MEM would not be a 4 hour flight block.

Apologies, I misread the LGA-MEM flight times (1610-1815 today). It still doesn't change the fact that the second wave of European arrivals (first arrival is at wouldn't be able to fully connect to JFK-MEM.


User currently offlinerwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3105 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2105 times:

Quoting simairlinenet (Reply 17):
Next week's schedule
MEM-AMS arrive 11.35 depart 20.30 AMS-ATH
MEM-AMS arrive 11.35 depart 20.25 AMS-IST

8 hours to venture into Amsterdam? I would!

The return connections are better.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7195 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days ago) and read 2053 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 9):
Quoting enilria (Reply 8):
We did this in the other thread and there are more than you'd think. There's about 10.

If you have a link to that thread I'd be interested to see that. BUT.... how many pax per day or even per week are there between MEM and those 10 unique to JFK destinations. While I am willing to concede that the presence of MEM-JFK may improve those numbers somewhat, at the end of the day I'd suspect it was low enough that the few people that did fly that could do with a double connect to get to JFK or another connecting point outside of NA.

Unfortunately despite nearly 4,000 posts on here I still struggle with getting the search function to be usable. Thanks to google...


The following JFK routes are unique to both ATL and AMS.
BRL/DKR/GEO/GND/PAP/POP/SNN/STI/YHZ

MEM has the following unique stations to ATL:
AMA
COU
DAL
FSM
GLH
LBB
MFE
PIB
TUP

DAL is a temporary aberration. AMA/LBB/MFE are the only three that are "large"-ish cities.

You say JFK has "ZERO" unique stations. The following are unique vs. ATL:
AMM
ARN
ATH
BRL
DKR
CPH
CAI
GEO
GND
IST
PAP
POP
PRG
SNN
STI
TXL
VCE
YHZ

Further DL Mainline Reductions Coming To MEM (by FSDan Feb 2 2011 in Civil Aviation)


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why Did Delta Cancel The JFK LOS Flight? posted Fri Sep 26 2008 17:21:33 by Qwame
Delta To JFK-TLV Why So Expensive? posted Fri Nov 16 2007 14:59:26 by Jfk787nyc
Why Did Delta's Hub At PDX Collapse? posted Fri Sep 14 2007 00:53:28 by Kaitak744
Delta 806 Emergency Landing At JFK! posted Mon Jun 19 2006 22:35:29 by GusNYC
Why Can't Delta Do More Runs Like JFK-SNN/DUB posted Tue May 16 2006 23:32:07 by Evan767
Why No Delta 777's From JFK posted Thu Jun 16 2005 07:21:27 by Jumbojet
Why No Delta Routes To China From JFK? posted Fri Mar 11 2005 19:14:27 by Jumbojet
Delta Air Lines Terminals 2/3 At JFK posted Mon Mar 7 2005 03:40:59 by Chuj
Why Did Delta Have It's Own Term At ONT? posted Fri Mar 4 2005 02:24:05 by Matt D
Why Is Delta At Airside D? posted Wed Feb 18 2004 03:19:26 by KBUF737