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United PS To Get Lie-flat First Seats  
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 14798 times:

Not sure if this was posted or not, but:
http://upgrd.com/matthew/jeff-smisek...s-at-major-changes-for-united.html

"Premium Service (p.s. - LAX/SFO-JFK) service interiors will be upgraded - lie-flat seats will be added (no confirmation that three-cabin service would be removed, but this was during the discussion of three vs. two cabin service)"

I wonder what seats they will install...Perhaps the old F suites pulled off of the 747s and 777s?

I also wonder if they will add PTVs to the 752 fleet...If they do either or both of those, United will have one heck of a trancson product from JFK to LAX & SFO.

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25759 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 14838 times:

Being discussed here
United/Continental Existing Fleet Upgrade Status 4 (by ZKNCL Feb 22 2011 in Civil Aviation)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 14738 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Being discussed here

Thanks for posting. I still think it warrants a separate thread since that thread already has a significant number of replies. We'll see what the mods do.


User currently offlineKFitz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 14679 times:

Doubt they'll source the new lie flats from the old First Suite, which was relatively heavy, heavy enough to not be installed on the 767s. Not to mention, it's IFE, with the tape player, is relatively outdated.

It sounds like, from his comments, that PS is going to 2-Cabin configuration. Perhaps this subfleet will be nixed and the product offering will be the same as other 757s in light of having the ability to perform missions off PS. I.e. just throw a few intl. configured 757s from CO on the route - with the new lie flats. We all know how CO hates subfleets at all costs.

Actually sounds like a downgrade to me, given UA was already planning on putting their new IPTE product on the route.

[Edited 2011-03-23 14:49:49]

User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8906 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 14588 times:

Quoting KFitz (Reply 3):

It sounds like, from his comments, that PS is going to 2-Cabin configuration. Perhaps this subfleet will be nixed and the product offering will be the same as other 757s in light of having the ability to perform missions off PS. I.e. just throw a few intl. configured 757s from CO on the route - with the new lie flats. We all know how CO hates subfleets at all costs.

WOuld not shock me if it's just the CO 757 BF seat...though quite possibly in more than the current 16J configuration - that'd be a very large dropoff in premium seats on that route (40 or so to 16...).


User currently offlineRamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 14465 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 2):
it warrants a separate thread since that thread already has a significant number of replies.

concur. no way am I sifting through a 4-parter to discuss this.

Quoting KFitz (Reply 3):
just throw a few intl. configured 757s from CO on the route - with the new lie flats. We all know how CO hates subfleets at all costs.

Hopefully they don't do that...that's a huge loss of premium seats. They could use that same seat...looks very nice, but I think P.S. surely warrants a sub-fleet. I mean, if they are actually selling any significant portion of FORTY C and F seats at full price, then these flights are huge money makers.


User currently offlinedartland From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 644 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 14414 times:
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Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 5):
Hopefully they don't do that...that's a huge loss of premium seats. They could use that same seat...looks very nice, but I think P.S. surely warrants a sub-fleet. I mean, if they are actually selling any significant portion of FORTY C and F seats at full price, then these flights are huge money makers.

They do seem to sell the biz seats on those flights, but not nearly as much the F. I think they'd do fine if they simply made it 38 lie-flat biz seats and keep the Y cabin as-is, for a 2-class configuration. I doubt people would care since that J product is already of int'l caliber (and would only get better with the new seats).

Now if they also put PTVs in Y....that would be an extremely competitive product (although of course it already is today).


User currently offlineKFitz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 14325 times:

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 4):
WOuld not shock me if it's just the CO 757 BF seat...though quite possibly in more than the current 16J configuration - that'd be a very large dropoff in premium seats on that route (40 or so to 16...).
Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 5):
Hopefully they don't do that...that's a huge loss of premium seats. They could use that same seat...looks very nice, but I think P.S. surely warrants a sub-fleet. I mean, if they are actually selling any significant portion of FORTY C and F seats at full price, then these flights are huge money makers.

Well rememeber that is exactly what they are about to do with the IAD-CDG routes. Nix Intl. First, and reduce the amount of daily premium seats nearly by half.


User currently offlineUATulipfan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 14029 times:

p.s is a money maker for UA. They would be flat out stupid to get rid of the 3-class.


Long live the Tulip! The logo of the REAL United Airlines.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19951 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 13846 times:

Why the lie-flat? P.S. is only offered on a few transcons. Westbound, most flights are during the day. Eastbound, few flights are over 5 hours. Is there really such demand for a lie-flat on such short legs?

User currently offlinedfambro From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 13801 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
Eastbound, few flights are over 5 hours.

It's a short night's sleep, but it's better than nothing.


User currently offlinetimf From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 970 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 13603 times:
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The most practical solution to seems to be a 30/108 configuration. You take the forward cabin and make it 16J like the CO 752s, as well as update the 14 seats ahead of the emergency exit row with lie-flat seats. You can then fit an additional 6 rows of Y+ in the exit row and remaining 3 rows of the current J cabin. Right now the double exit row is just an immense waste of space.

User currently offlinefbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3713 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 13454 times:

I'd be very surprised if UA were to drop the current 3 class configuration on p.s. They need something that competes directly with AA even if it is name only, otherwise I'd have thought the entertainment contracts on these routes would be in jeopardy.


"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently offlineKFitz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 13445 times:

Apparently SAG now doesn't allow for 3-cabin F, only J. So that goes out the window.

True PS is a moneymaker, but who's to say it couldn't be more so without F?


User currently offlineusxguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1025 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 13296 times:

problem is United does sell F & C, and heck, even Y, on PS.... so I don't see them changing it....


xx
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2436 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 13273 times:

We could simply see 16 of CO's 757 flat bed seats added to replace the 12 angled-flat seats in current p.s. F...

User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3554 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 13112 times:

Quoting KFitz (Reply 13):
Apparently SAG now doesn't allow for 3-cabin F, only J. So that goes out the window.

True PS is a moneymaker, but who's to say it couldn't be more so without F?

I am sure that AA and UA both make alot of money off of JFK-LAX/SFO. They sell F seats but the questions is could P.S. make more money in an all business layout I think thats the exact question here.

How many people is UA upgrading or letting non-revs fly in F. I am sure that AA is gonna keep the 3 class setup regardless of what UA decides to do. UA has a winner in PS but i dont think they sell nearly as many First class seats as AA does. It might make some sense for UA to keep the three cabin setup to remain competitive or it might make sense to get an all business setup in their i will trust UA to make the right decision they know the real numbers of how many first class seats they are actually selling not upgrades, awards, or non-revs


User currently offlineKFitz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 12945 times:

Keep in mind PS is the only route that nrsa's can nonrev into on the domestic network (barring last minute 3-cabin intl. equipment swaps). With the unlimited domestic upgrade program (of which PS is not a part of), F is off limits to all employees at the moment.

User currently offlinenycdave From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 547 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 12882 times:

Well, I'll take this as a validation of my previous criticisms of p.s. saying that it ought to have real, modern J and/or F seats instead of just "domestic" premium seats. Transcon flights aren't THAT much shorter than TATL flights, so using "it's just domestic" always seemed like a cop-out to me.

IIRC from the figures of load and revenue/seat, United would be foolish to significantly cut in any way the number of premium seats on the planes. I could see going 2-class -- if you're upgrading business to BF standards, your only F class options would be extremely space-consuming suites necessitating a big cut to J or Y+ seating, and the last thing you want to do is cut J seats. I'm guessing Y+ is also at least profitable on p.s. since it's usually full, and is both an upsell to regular passengers and a big incentive for frequent fliers to opt for UA on that route over DL and AA.

I'm really glad they're doing this though -- I love the p.s. concept, it performs excellently from a business standpoint, and as I said before in a previous thread, I was really underwhelmed by the actual equipment when I flew it. Upgrade the equipment to match the potential of the concept, and you have not just a "really good" domestic product, but a real prestige service to be proud of without reservations.


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2941 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 12845 times:
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They need all 3! p.s. Carries many Asian and Australian traffic. I fly to Sydney in F, I get F to JFK. I fly biz to Asia, I get biz on p.s.! If I just go to SFO OR LAX I fly biz. All full fare. If I am just going to California I may use a regional to F (while they last)
My point is p.s. is an extension to all the UA Pacific flights. AND pax LOVE those ex UA international recliners for transcon. They are paid for one way or another! Expensive! But all my bosses pay it!

Also, p.s. to and from LAX in F is the Hollywood flight. The celebs like the privacy! And someone is paying their way! That's what Paula Abdul told me!



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlinenycdave From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 547 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 12832 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 19):
If I am just going to California I may use a regional to F (while they last)

Have you flown BusinessFirst? It's nicer than the F you're currently flying in p.s., and closer to current int'll standards (you can't argue that p.s. business is in any respect a "continuation" of transpac business service/equp!)


User currently offlineSuperman24 From Canada, joined Oct 2009, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12067 times:

Does Anyone know if and when these changes will take effect? I am flying P.s first in September.
Also they should not get rid of F Class. We keep on saying they have to compete with AA but did we forget VX??? I don't know if anyone has flown Vx in first class but it destroys any domestic Fist class product out there.

Let me know if anyone knows when the changes will happen.

Cheers!


User currently offlineWABENNER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 12018 times:

Quoting KFitz (Reply 13):
Apparently SAG now doesn't allow for 3-cabin F, only J. So that goes out the window.

True PS is a moneymaker, but who's to say it couldn't be more so without F?

Are you talking about SAG (Screen Actors Guild) rules on travel? I know SAG rules require when actors fly to shoot movies or tv shows, they fly F, but that maybe only on 2 cabin aircraft and they can fly J/C on three cabin aircraft.


User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 11322 times:

Of course we might also see the 762s shifted back to P.S., though I doubt it....

Quoting KFitz (Reply 3):
Actually sounds like a downgrade to me, given UA was already planning on putting their new IPTE product on the route.

Were they? I don't recall this.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 15):
We could simply see 16 of CO's 757 flat bed seats added to replace the 12 angled-flat seats in current p.s. F...

Yes. I like this idea. I'm not sure how much more room it would take up though. But it would be a killer product.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8428 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 11180 times:
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United's PS 757 seat 12 First Class passengers which is 4 less then a Continental 757 with 16 J lie flat seats used to LHR.

There is No way UA and AA are not keeping 3 class transcon flights, they have contracts will hollywwod to keep First Class for all teh celebrities.


25 sq_ek_freak : That's what I heard from a FA friend of mine at UA who does the PS runs frequently (she's JFK/LGA based). In fact I'm on vacation soon and looked at
26 chopchop767 : I think the old adage, if it's not broken, don't try to fix it, applies here. The PS product has been a grand-slam for UA, and one of the elements of
27 AADC10 : Aren't the current p.s. F seats "lie flat"? They are not horizontal but they can be made more or less flat. The p.s. F seats are rather beat up looki
28 RoseFlyer : When did that happen? As far as I know, UA does not limit non-rev travel on any flight in any cabin for actual employees. From time to time they put
29 Post contains images CODC10 : CO's BF flat bed 757 seats are 23" wide with armrests down, and overall better than the current p.s. F seats (21.5" width) in every way. I don't thin
30 Sulley : I haven't heard of any restrictions either. I just looked on Weblist and I can book for F on any flight, p.s. or not. As for the future of the servic
31 qqflyboy : I'm guessng KFitz was saying that due to unlimited upgrades, which PS isn't a part of, other domestic flights are impossible to get on in first. Not
32 Sulley : Okay, makes sense now. I went back and re-read it. He's got a point... every flight I've been on lately has had upwards of 30+ upgradeable elites.[Edi
33 KFitz : Have you ever flown United PS F or J? You have admitted yourself you sat in a J seat for less than 30 seconds as you were deplaning back from coach.
34 Sulley : We're used to UDU on the CO side -- that's one of the reasons why CO's EmployeeRES will show how many upgradeable elites there are on a certain fligh
35 KFitz : Agreed, the only way to determine placement on the standby list is from a company computer at UA, but a simple phone call to a friend can solve this.
36 Post contains images Sulley : I'll agree to that - I've used Weblist several times on my iPhone without a hitch. It's a lot easier loading than full EmployeeRES if you need to do s
37 klkla : AA calls theirs a 'true' first class but the Business Elite product on Delta is equal to or better in virtually every respect. I flew LAX-JFK in AA f
38 nycdave : *Sigh* here we go again. Other than making up words I didn't use to describe p.s. at any point, and taking issue with the fact that I commented on th
39 VC10er : No I have not flown CO just transcon. Which of their BF seats do they use? The domestic F? The international recliner? The international angled lie f
40 Post contains images genybustrvlr : Changed my flight and ended up in Y+ on p.s. a few weeks back and felt that the pitch was pretty stingy compared to other experiences in Y+. Looking a
41 VC10er : Row 9. I always got row 9 but then EVERYONE found out about it and now you need to ticket months ahead!
42 slcdeltarumd11 : Since when cant employees non-rev into F on united P.S.? I always use to see tons of united employees in P.S. F. business was always full but F often
43 KFitz : Yeah you have it right; I mean't F on 2-cabin domestic is off limits, PS is immune.
44 laca773 : When did they start this? This is great!!. Where can I find information about this? UA was the last domestic airline to serve meals in Y mainland fli
45 VC10er : does anyone have a pic of the AA First seat? and does AA have a special name for their 3 class premium service like p.s.? like AAdmirals Service or "
46 sq_ek_freak : I think they call it their "Flagship Service" or something of the like?
47 commavia : AFS - "American Flagship Service" - is the marketing name for the premium transcon flights. IFS - "International Flagship Service" - is the marketing
48 washingtonian : I still think they should install the PMCO BusinessFirst seats on the 757, and add PTVs throughout...They would have the hands-down best transcon prod
49 Post contains images nycdave : I think VX might want to challenge you on that
50 Post contains images dartland : It depends on what you value. VX has an awesome product, no doubt. But....when it comes to seat pitch and overall reduction of "hassle", nothing beat
51 Post contains images VC10er : Agreed. P.S. rocks and I havent experienced anything better or more pleasant yet. Service is consistantly great, I think UA puts their most highly ra
52 ikramerica : Ua's JFK gates are crowded anyway, especially on summer IROP nights. Imagine if each flight had 50 more seats?
53 CODC10 : This is decidedly not the case, but I know UA people take the product seriously and understand what a moneymaker it is for the company. Therefore, on
54 KFitz : Yeah sure, I thought you'd had enough of embarrassing yourself talking about your PS economy experience. Virgin has lazy boy chairs up front, not eve
55 VC10er : Thank you. I have noted an extra level of service on p.s. vs other flights. As for the gentleman above I will not dignify their comments.
56 VC10er : I did indeed contact them. Thanks
57 N62NA : RE: CO transcons: Mostly 737s. A few 757s. No. JFK is definitely getting the "premium" product compared to EWR.
58 dartland : I actually love T7 at JFK. I hear you that the seating area by the gate isn't that large, but the terminal is so easy to manage and so fast from entr
59 KFitz : T7 has a very intimate feel. One to watch out for is the huge 450lb BA matron who runs the gates for the flights to Heathrow. They usually use the UA
60 VC10er : UA has a big crazy lady too! But you don't get her until boarding time for p.s.!
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