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When Will CX Start LHR-JFK?  
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9168 posts, RR: 15
Posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7512 times:

I believe CX has obtained the rights but when will they make a move and start LHR-JFK?

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 543 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7447 times:

I did not hear about this, when did it happen? The only thing I found on this was from '04, so I guess they have been waiting for a long time.

Here is the link:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/catha...-bid-uncertain-slowed-down-eu.html

Sorry it is not that great of a source. There is a lot of competition on this route, so it shall be interesting. I guess it will start off in HKG, so that could be a plus for them, and as far as I know, they would still be the only airline operating from JFK to HKG.

Sorry for not having a great answer, thank you to those that post after me.

laxboeingman



The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9168 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7391 times:

They should still start the route. With the excellent service+reputation I am sure they can make a profit out of it and people will fly it even though they might be able to offer only single daily flights

User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8549 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7350 times:
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I would be very surprised if CX management were to decide that starting up a low frequency 5th freedom service on a route already dominated by an almost shuttle service operated by two of their OW partners was actually the best possible use of their valuable slots at LHR .


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20514 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7345 times:

A lot of good replies in these threads:

CX's Proposed HKG-LHR-JFK Route (by United Airline Dec 12 2008 in Civil Aviation)

CX/SQ's Proposed LHR-JFK/LAX-SYD Routes (by United Airline Sep 21 2009 in Civil Aviation)



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3207 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7198 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 3):
I would be very surprised if CX management were to decide that starting up a low frequency 5th freedom service on a route already dominated by an almost shuttle service operated by two of their OW partners was actually the best possible use of their valuable slots at LHR .

I think he hit the nail on the head. The 4th daily HKG-LHR flight probably was th slot originally thought to go through to new york. Remember when they were first talking about this,at that point CX only had recently started JFK nonstop, and the other flight was through YVR. LHR is too much of a detour now for JFK.

As for succeeding on the 5th freedom...no way. Economy is often sold on this route below cost merely as 'ballast' to enable a higher frequency of flights for J class passengers. CX... which just a single frequency per day would struggle to get the higher paying J class passengers and definately could forget the corporate accounts. So they'd be selling discounted J class to wealthy liesure PAX. Oneworld frequent flyers would be the target market... and BA and AA wouldn't be helping there with their shuttle operation offering much much better departure and arrival options. Virgin and United/delta/united frequent flyers are likely to stay loyal purely for the miles if they're the types that pay for their own tickets reguarly. To make this service work Cathay would need a significant amount of flow through traffic from Hong Kong. Maybe if they dropped their service Via Vancouver to JFK they might make it work. But of course the question remains...and has probably already been answered... would that aircraft...and slot be better used just going back to hong kong and feeding Cathays hub where it has a point of strenght... can can offer great connections to china, japan, south east asia and Austarlia and new zealand, and have the advantage with more frequencies rather then fighting against AA and BA's something like 15 frequencies a day!


User currently offlineRAGAZZO777 From Uruguay, joined Jul 2010, 584 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7113 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 3):
I would be very surprised if CX management were to decide that starting up a low frequency 5th freedom service on a route already dominated by an almost shuttle service operated by two of their OW partners

Agreed. LHR-JFK is British Airways's stellar route and I would be more than surprised if Cathay Pacific started flying that route.



JESÚS, TE AMO !!
User currently offlineshengzhurou From China, joined May 2010, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7077 times:

cx can still advertise it as around the world flight like what they did on the freighter.


Sheng Zhu Rou
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8549 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7061 times:
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Quoting shengzhurou (Reply 7):
cx can still advertise it as around the world flight like what they did on the freighter.

I am sure that they could , but would the route actually return enough on the investment to be worthwhile . CX has pretty much always been a hard headed sensible airline run by hard headed sensible people , that is one of the reasons that they have performed so well financially over the years ... hard headed business people tend to make their business decisions on the basis of whether or not something will perform rather than whether it would sound glamourous .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9168 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6883 times:

It would be prestigious to fly RTW as well as transatlantic like SQ

Any chance to see CX flying LHR-JFK and SYD-LAX (it was rumoured)


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8549 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6851 times:
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Quoting United Airline (Reply 9):

It would be prestigious to fly RTW as well as transatlantic like SQ

Oh dear , please see my post immediately above yours ....

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 8):
CX has pretty much always been a hard headed sensible airline run by hard headed sensible people , that is one of the reasons that they have performed so well financially over the years ... hard headed business people tend to make their business decisions on the basis of whether or not something will perform rather than whether it would sound glamourous .

... or indeed "prestigious"



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineCX Flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6597 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day ago) and read 6678 times:

They have been looking at a couple of options of transatlantic services. I don't think one from LHR will happen as the slots are too valuable to use on a service which is so competitive.

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9168 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 17 hours ago) and read 5201 times:

Why did they apply for it at the first place? SQ is dying to start this route

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 12):
They have been looking at a couple of options of transatlantic services. I don't think one from LHR will happen as the slots are too valuable to use on a service which is so competitive.

What transatlantic flights they plan to start?


User currently offlineHeeBeeGB From Finland, joined Sep 2007, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 17 hours ago) and read 5144 times:

BA = One world
AA = One world
CX = One world


LON-NYC = Stellar performer for BA, AA also operate it, not saying it wouldn't work, it may do, however why would CX bother?


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7461 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 16 hours ago) and read 4638 times:

This is probably not the best time for a new entry to the LHR-JFK market. Tomorrow is 27 March. And here is am extract from BA's press release from 9 days ago (17 March):

"From March 27, American Airlines and British Airways will effectively create a transatlantic shuttle service between the top US-UK routes by aligning the timing on their schedules.

"The biggest change is on the Heathrow – New York route. Previously, of the 11 daily flights to New York, five left Heathrow at almost exactly the same time, leaving gaps of up to three hours between services.

"Now flights will depart every hour, on the hour between 1pm and 8pm from Heathrow. There will also be a maximum of only an hour and a half between morning departures."

This is a huge bonus for the buiness traveller with a fully flexible ticket.


User currently offlineHeeBeeGB From Finland, joined Sep 2007, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 13 hours ago) and read 3848 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 14):

Spot on, ba.com (which includes AA departures too) shows the following LHR-NYC departures (and there are 2 LCY-NYC departures on top)

0830 / 1000 / 1015 / 1055 / 1300 / 1400 / 1505 / 1600(x2) / 1700 / 1800 / 1805 / 1900 / 2000


User currently offlinetymnbalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 948 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 12 hours ago) and read 3343 times:

...and JFK-LON:
0800/0925/1810/1840/1900/1910/1930/2040/2100/2150/2155/2235/2305



Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlineCX Flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6597 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 10 hours ago) and read 2866 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 12):
Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 12):
They have been looking at a couple of options of transatlantic services. I don't think one from LHR will happen as the slots are too valuable to use on a service which is so competitive.

What transatlantic flights they plan to start?

There is no plan for anything yet....they are just looking.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9168 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 8 hours ago) and read 2446 times:

They should since SQ is doing transatlantic. SQ is extremely eager to get LHR-JFK. Why did CX apply for it at the first place?

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 17):
There is no plan for anything yet....they are just looking.

Maybe FRA-ORD or FRA-YVR? Or FRA-JFK/EWR?


User currently offlinetymnbalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 948 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 2335 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 18):
Maybe FRA-ORD or FRA-YVR? Or FRA-JFK/EWR?

I would doubt FRA-ORD or FRA-NYC as those would be connecting two StarAlliance hubs.



Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4502 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 2220 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 18):
SQ is extremely eager to get LHR-JFK

Says who? You?

The only thing SQ is extremely eager for with regard to LHR is to obtain a second early morning landing slot so as to be able to start a second overnight service from SIN. CX is already operating two overnight services, SQ has just one, combined with two daylight trips.


User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20514 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 6 hours ago) and read 2156 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 18):
SQ is extremely eager to get LHR-JFK.

I doubt that, as it makes no economic sense at all.

1) It would be run as a 5th freedom flight, so their choices would be a) extending one or more of their A380 flights to JFK, b) extending SQ308 on the 77W onwards to JFK that doesn't arrive into LHR until 3:30pm, but there's no realistic way to get it back to LHR to fly SQ319 at 6:30pm unless it departed JFK around 6:00am, or c) allocating an A330 or 77W at LHR to run a change-of-gauge service from the A380s;

2) Back around when the GFC began, there were many posts claiming that the big banks weren't paying more than $850 each way on AA for a fully-flex J-class seat, so even if SQ could somehow get contracts to help fill the seats, the price would be very low;

3) SQ is limited to the number of flights they could run LHR-JFK to the number of their SIN-LHR flights—there's only so many seats they can profitably throw into that market; and

4) SQ already owns 49% of an airline that flies this route, that many reports say they've been trying to sell.

So why on earth would SQ want to fly LHR-JFK?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinenickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1487 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 6 hours ago) and read 2142 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 18):
They should since SQ is doing transatlantic. SQ is extremely eager to get LHR-JFK. Why did CX apply for it at the first place?

I am almost certain the new UK-Singapore air treaty gives SQ fifth freedom rights to the USA so SQ could start the route tomorrow if it wanted to and had the slots at LHR. A Hong Kong carrier is permitted to fly LHR-JFK in exchange for VS' fifth freedom rights HKG-SYD.


User currently offlineSkyguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 481 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 6 hours ago) and read 2127 times:

TG has had rights (and still does) for LHR-JFK for at least 2 decades if not more, however, they've never used the rights as the competition would be (and was) too fierce on the route to make it worthwhile.
SQ probably wants to do LHR-JFK as they would be a strong Star Alliance anchor member who could draw loyal J/F class pax on the route as it is currently poorly served by any SA member. But unless they can do so with sufficient frequency it will be tough to sustain.
(Just my $0.02)



"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 5 hours ago) and read 2048 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting United Airline (Reply 18):
They should since SQ is doing transatlantic.

So? CX are not SQ, they're different airlines catering to different markets. Yes, CX has right from LHR-JFK, but as kiwiandrew rightly pointed out, CX are a conservative airline and won't do it unless it makes business sense for them. In short, what's in it for them to enter an already saturated route? Will they make money from it? These are the considerations, among others, that CX will need to take into account before deciding to embark on such venture. Whether such route carries 'prestige' with it is, I think, irrelevant. Likewise, whether SQ are doing it is also quite irrelevant to the final decision. CX are not SQ, and I for one am thankful that they don't blindly follow what their competitors from SIN do.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6597 posts, RR: 55
Reply 25, posted (3 years 5 months 1 hour ago) and read 1882 times:

CX is looking at maybe South America or MIA and are looking at the possibility of going to those places via Europe....but they are just looking, and they do look at many many different things on any given day so don't read too much into it.

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