Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Korean Flight 858 - No Wreckage Or Bodies  
User currently offlineHalophila From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 646 posts, RR: 4
Posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 30508 times:

Hello Everyone,

In 1987 two North Korean operatives placed an explosive on KAL858 flying from SDA-AUH-BKK, departing the a/c in AUH after placing the explosive. This was apparently in retaliation for Seoul hosting the Summer Olympics in 1988. The bombing is the reason NK was listed as a state sponsor of terrorism.

According to wikipedia, the flight exploded somewhere in the Andaman sea before landing in BKK. However, according to wikipedia, no wreckage, bodies, black box or CVR was ever recovered. I assume therefore that the cause of crash was inferred from the confessions of the female terrorist who admitted to planting the IED (her accomplice committed suicide upon questioning).

Does anyone know if, indeed, any wreckage of the flight was ever found? And how long was the time between the reported loss of KAL858 and the confession of the assailants? Furthermore, does anyone know why the IED was detonated 9 hrs after being planted and was presumably done so by radio transmitter?

Halophila


Flown on 707, 717, 727, 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 741 742 743 744 74SP 757 753 762 763 772 773 77W D10 DC9 M11 M80 M87
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12158 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 27113 times:

The wreckage has never been found, It crashed in the same general area as the 26 Dec. 2004 Earthquake that caused the Tsunami killing about 250,000 people. This area is also called the Andaman Sea.

So, it may never be found, now.

The airplane was a B-707-3B5C with 104 passengers and a crew of 11 at the time it exploded. The explosives were said to be IN a radio, not detonated by a radio signal, which probibly means it was some sort of timer device. The radio was said to contain 350 grams (about 12.5 oz.) of C-4(plastic explosive about 1.4 times as powerful as TNT, this equils about 17.5 oz, or 490 g of TNT). There was also a 750 ml bottle of PDX (Picatinny Liquid Explosive, is a liquid binary explosive, a mixture of 95% nitromethaneNitromethaneNitromethane is an organic compound with the chemical formula CH3NO2. It is the simplest organic nitro compound. It is a slightly viscous, highly polar liquid commonly used as a solvent in a variety of industrial applications such as in extractions, as a reaction medium, and... (NM) and 5% ethylene diamine) stowed next to the radio, in the overhead bin. The timer was thought to be in the radio, it detonated some 9 hours after departure from AUH.

This was the event that placed North Korea on the list of state sponsored terrorism.


User currently offlinepliersinsight From United States of America, joined May 2008, 496 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 27134 times:

Perhaps this image might lead you in the right direction. It is allegedly of KAL 858 wreckage.

http://www.reasonableman.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/kal8581.jpg


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12158 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 26515 times:

Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 2):
It is allegedly of KAL 858 wreckage.

I had not seen that picture before. Do you know where and when it was taken. The man leaning over to measure the bottom of the peice has the KE logo on his back. Also the window row looks about right for the B-707. You can clearly see the 1988 Olympic logo on the wreckage, too.

What is the stuff all over the wreckage? Sea growth? Mud?


User currently offlineSolarFlyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 1109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 26341 times:

I'm surprised there was not more follow through on this. Couldn't south korea just pay someone to go find the black box recorder? Did 707s even have them?

Is it possible they did not want to find the wreckage for some reason?


User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2686 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 26114 times:

Quoting SolarFlyer22 (Reply 4):
I'm surprised there was not more follow through on this. Couldn't south korea just pay someone to go find the black box recorder? Did 707s even have them?

I doubt the tape would be in any condition to be read now.
Little to nothing would be learned from the wreckage today, it's been in the water too long.



arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offlinegoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 26060 times:

Isn't it a little crazy to bomb a plane just because of the Olympics? I mean, REALLY? What stupid people responsible!  


From the airport with love
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3392 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 25762 times:

Quoting goblin211 (Reply 6):
Isn't it a little crazy to bomb a plane just because of the Olympics? I mean, REALLY? What stupid people responsible!

It's crazy to bomb a plane under any circumstances, come to think of it.


User currently offlinePITingres From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1150 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 25694 times:

Quoting goblin211 (Reply 6):
Isn't it a little crazy to bomb a plane just because of the Olympics?

Indeed, but that doesn't stop some people. Google for 1972 Munich Summer Olympics, for instance.   I watched that one live and thought much the same things as you. It's not because of the Olympics per se, it's because the Olympics presents a stage for those who think themselves deserving of world attention.



Fly, you fools! Fly!
User currently offlinepliersinsight From United States of America, joined May 2008, 496 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 25519 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
I had not seen that picture before. Do you know where and when it was taken. The man leaning over to measure the bottom of the peice has the KE logo on his back. Also the window row looks about right for the B-707. You can clearly see the 1988 Olympic logo on the wreckage, too.

What is the stuff all over the wreckage? Sea growth? Mud?

I know nothing more about the picture other than it is out there. I have no written proof that it is authentic, however it does look convincing. I value your expertise on whether it is 707 looking or not far more than mine.


With all the controversy surrounding this incident, I don't want to start some sort of political discussion, however it is a really touchy subject for some.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12158 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 24031 times:

Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 9):
pliersinsight

You need far more to prove that is a peice of a B-707. The windows look like those of the B-707, but the B-737 and B-727 use the same windows. It is definately not from a B-747, B-767 or B-757, which were all in use at the time period, too. If they showed the other side with the stringers and frames, that would say more about which Boeing this came from.


User currently offlineHalophila From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 646 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 24029 times:

Thanks all for the information. I'd never seen that photograph before either. I was just curious with the plane going missing, how long it took for investigators to deduce that it was actually bombed. I was only 10 when this happened, and vaguely recall something on the news about it, and the north koreans arrest. But beyond that all the info I can find is on Wikipedia.

Thanks again for your replies - this is insightful

Halophila



Flown on 707, 717, 727, 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 741 742 743 744 74SP 757 753 762 763 772 773 77W D10 DC9 M11 M80 M87
User currently offlineJohnKrist From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1399 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 23358 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SUPPORT

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
You need far more to prove that is a peice of a B-707. The windows look like those of the B-707, but the B-737 and B-727 use the same windows. It is definately not from a B-747, B-767 or B-757, which were all in use at the time period, too. If they showed the other side with the stringers and frames, that would say more about which Boeing this came from.

Considering they only had two 727 and no 737 at that time, and both 727's were reregistered from what I have found it can't be any of those.

Edit: On the other hand airframes.org does not list 707's belonging to Korean either...and that one I know they had

[Edited 2011-03-28 11:36:51]


5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, Metz 58-AF1
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 22616 times:

Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 9):
With all the controversy surrounding this incident, I don't want to start some sort of political discussion, however it is a really touchy subject for some.

"Mysterious" crashes always bring alternate theories and controversy. In this case one nation accuses another nation of purposely planning and supporting a terrorist act to plant a bomb and kill a large number of people. And the only evidence is a confession. Some folks will always believe a confession is made up and in such a case is a political act.

Even if it was not North and South Korea.

There are theories that John F Kennedy, Jr. aircraft was shot down by the US Navy because he was going to reveal what really happened the day his dad was killed. That the Air India crash off Ireland was a plot by the Indian government to discredit separatists, that Pan Am 103 was a plot by the US and British governments to frame Qaddafi, etc.

Quoting SolarFlyer22 (Reply 4):
Couldn't south korea just pay someone to go find the black box recorder? Did 707s even have them?

The technology of finding deep ocean wreckage in 1987 was much less effective and reliable that it is today. And as noted above the technology of FDR/CVR recorders back then was magnetic tape which would most likely be unreadable today.


User currently offlineJohnKrist From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1399 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 22275 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SUPPORT

Still, looking at aviationsafety only 2 incidents with a 727, and none with a 737.
One 727 was involved in a highjack situation, the other made a belly landing with no fatalities, and that image doesn't rally depict debris from a highjack or survivable belly landing IMHO  



5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, Metz 58-AF1
User currently offlineHeeseokKoo From South Korea, joined Jan 2005, 652 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 22214 times:

Many Koreans do not fully believe all the reports about this incident. On December 1987, the historical first ever president election was done in Korea, and this accident was heavily abused by the government who tried to keep being the ruling party. One day before the election, government brought Kim Hyon Hui to south Korea and proved that everything was done by north Korea. Too many things were revealed just one day before the election, and that worked favorably to the ruling party because Korean people don't want political instability (i.e. change ruling party) when they think war is imminent. In fact the ruling party at that time had the strongest opinion against north Korea than other parties.

Many Koreans still think there might be some facts hidden, and some even doubt if Kim Hyon Hui is really related to the incident or was it all fake. In my opinion, there should be very little conspiracy, no doubt that north Korea did it, but "one day before the election" thing is very disgusting.

Sorry for bringing up the history, but I'm not surprised if there're lots of missing parts in this accident...

[Edited 2011-03-28 11:56:01]

User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12740 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 22151 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 13):
There are theories that John F Kennedy, Jr. aircraft was shot down by the US Navy because he was going to reveal what really happened the day his dad was killed. That the Air India crash off Ireland was a plot by the Indian government to discredit separatists, that Pan Am 103 was a plot by the US and British governments to frame Qaddafi, etc.

And TWA 800 was shot down by the US Navy, etc...



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinelitz From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 21961 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting PITingres (Reply 8):
Google for 1972 Munich Summer Olympics, for instance. I watched that one live and thought much the same things as you. It's not because of the Olympics per se, it's because the Olympics presents a stage for those who think themselves deserving of world attention.

Some people are just plain nuts about things like that. I walked through the park maybe 20 minutes before the bomb blast in 1996 (walked right by the bomb, in fact). The guy who planted it was basically anti-establishment, anti-abortion, anti-gay, etc.

People that do things like that just aren't right in the head.


User currently offlineBOAC911 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 454 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 21709 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting litz (Reply 17):
People that do things like that just aren't right in the head.

it was a political act of terrorism. And as far as being not right in their head? I would say you are correct: they were far left.


User currently offlinetxjim From United States of America, joined May 2008, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 21401 times:

Immediately after this incident, KE began searching for batteries in carry-ons. At LAX, they posted additional security near the gate KE used inside TBIT to hand search everything that made it past the x-rays. I lost many an AA battery intended for my Walkman which made for some mighty long flights.

In SEL they had the following system:

1) The x-ray operator would signal that batteries were in your carry-on
2) Your bag would be opened in your presence and the batteries removed from any electronics you had

which resulted in

3) you would then take the fresh batteries you had elsewhere in your briefcase and replace the dead batteries you strategically placed in your Walkman as sacrificial items.

I never tried to hide batteries but the inspectors only looked for what was in your equipment.

This lasted 8-9 months if I recall correctly.


User currently offlinenycflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1388 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 20923 times:

Quoting SolarFlyer22 (Reply 4):

Is it possible they did not want to find the wreckage for some reason?

It's not so easy to find a downed plane in the middle of the ocean!

Look no further than AF 447, and that was with 20+ years of modern technology after the KE crash.


User currently offlineFRAspotter From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2357 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 19848 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 13):
Quoting SolarFlyer22 (Reply 4):
Couldn't south korea just pay someone to go find the black box recorder? Did 707s even have them?

The technology of finding deep ocean wreckage in 1987 was much less effective and reliable that it is today. And as noted above the technology of FDR/CVR recorders back then was magnetic tape which would most likely be unreadable today.

If they couldn't find the AF 447 recorder or most of the wreckage, then 20+ years ago would be an even bigger long shot...



"Drunk drivers run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 648 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 19381 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
You need far more to prove that is a peice of a B-707.

Agreed, but the airline had no other major accidents around the time where the olypic logo would be on the side of the a/c.



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 19219 times:

Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 21):
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 13):
Quoting SolarFlyer22 (Reply 4):
Couldn't south korea just pay someone to go find the black box recorder? Did 707s even have them?

The technology of finding deep ocean wreckage in 1987 was much less effective and reliable that it is today. And as noted above the technology of FDR/CVR recorders back then was magnetic tape which would most likely be unreadable today.

If they couldn't find the AF 447 recorder or most of the wreckage, then 20+ years ago would be an even bigger long shot...

Reminds me of the Varig 707-320C freighter that disappeared about half an hour afer takeoff from NRT in January 1979, en route to GIG (no doubt via ANC and LAX). Presumed to have crashed into the Pacific about 200 miles northeast of Tokyo. Don't believe any wreckage was ever found. The cargo included some valuable paintings. Photo of the aircraft involved:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vito Cedrini



Earlier thread on the Varig event. It also mentions the KE 707 being discussed in this thread.
Varig PP-VLU (B707 Cargo) Still Missing Since 1979 (by VarigB707 Sep 8 2006 in Civil Aviation)#menu27


User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2350 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 17624 times:

A Google search on the tail number, HL7406, turned up this photo, displayed on an old thread on the Historic Jetliners Group forum. The author of the post claims it is a charred piece of the fuselage from KAL858.

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/9566/caqz01u7fd5.jpg

It's a small photo, and the fuselage section is only in the top part of the image (looks like it was on display somewhere?) but the markings, and damage look to be the same as from pliersinsight's link.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
25 Post contains links rfields5421 : I found this - some of the discussion behind the Wiki article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AKorean_Air_Flight_858
26 Post contains links rfields5421 : I'm not sure that no wreckage was never found http://articles.latimes.com/1987-11-30/news/mn-16912_1_bangkok
27 Halophila : That would seem to contradict the wikipedia page (not surprising!). It would also seem that it was not lost at sea, but rather inland, which would ex
28 Post contains links Halophila : http://articles.latimes.com/1987-12-.../news/mn-25846_1_korean-air-flight This actually is a follow up and says that wreckage was not, in fact, found
29 BOAC911 : Does anyone remember in what year KAL changed its livery to the present light blue fuselage and logo on the tail? And if o, did any of their 707's rec
30 kiwiandrew : The gospel according to Wikipedia says : .....A blue-top, silver and redesigned livery with a new corporate "Korean Air" logo featuring an accented,
31 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : KE 707 freighter. Photo dated 1985. View Large View MediumPhoto © Wolfgang Mendorf[Edited 2011-03-28 16:01:21]
32 thegoldenargosy : I though a read in an air accident book, I can't remember the name, that they found a life raft and some small pieces of wreckage.
33 kiwiandrew : Oooops ... oh well , not the first time I have had to eat my words , probably won't be the last either .
34 Maverick623 : There are people that believe 9/11 was staged, and that was broadcast live to the world (and seen in person by millions in NYC)
35 Viscount724 : I think KE retired the 707 from passenger service in the late 1970s, several years before that livery was introduced. Not sure how many freighters we
36 cedarjet : Koreanair operated passenger 707s in the current livery. If you put "HL7401" into Google Images, the first result on page two (of my search) is the ai
37 kiwiandrew : Sorry Viscount ,you are not often wrong , but this thread is about a KE pax 707 crash in 1987 , so they can't have retired them from pax service in t
38 Post contains images Maverick623 : "Staged" as in it was the government flying military airplanes and/or missles into the buildings. Aside from that clarification:
39 Post contains links hOONS90 : Here's an image of a passenger version KE 707 in the new livery that I found in a Korean language discussion board: http://gall.dcinside.com/list.php
40 FiestaFlight : Off topic, but man, that 707 looked great in the modern KAL colors! Never saw it before. I always thought that old aircraft looked cool without cheat
41 BOAC911 : Well, gathering then from the comments above, I would say it is safe to assume that HL-7406 was wearing the current KAL livery in late 1987. The pictu
42 Post contains links and images KFlyer : HL7404
43 rfields5421 : Unfortunately a side effect of the internet and seaching for information is that primary sources are now harder to find, and secondary sources like ne
44 Viscount724 : Right. I was obviously confused about the date. As a sidenote, what other significant carriers were still flying 707s in scheduled passenger service
45 Post contains images KC135TopBoom : Really? I heard that too........... They did? It wasn't? But I read on the internet that it was...........
46 hOONS90 : MEA, Avianca
47 Post contains images Western727 : My sentiments exactly. Perplexing yet intriguing.
48 Post contains links AMSSFO : It's indeed intriguing how hard it is to find some reliable information. I found the (a?) investigative report on http://www.docstoc.com/search/kal-8
49 BOAC911 : Intelligence knew more early on, and thus the follow up investigation of the "crash" including search, rescue, recovery, was put on the back burner.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Question About Korean Flight 007 posted Mon Jan 10 2011 09:17:47 by washingtonian
Why No Boeing Or Airbus Airways? posted Sat Jun 12 2010 09:40:58 by jamies80085
Why No 747 Or 777 For USAirways posted Sat Dec 5 2009 18:18:02 by C5LOAD
Southampton Airport: No FR Or U2 posted Sat Sep 12 2009 05:42:05 by Darr34
Why No CO Or AA 757s At DCA? posted Sun Jul 19 2009 15:27:15 by LHCVG
Delta's Abuja Flight Is A No Go For Now. posted Wed Apr 1 2009 17:54:46 by CokePopper
AF Will Take 20% Of "new" Alitalia No LH Or BA posted Tue Nov 18 2008 05:13:51 by Marcus380
DL MIA Bound Flight Diverted To SUA Or FPR Today? posted Tue Jul 15 2008 17:52:49 by John
Why No MAXjet Or Eos At ORD? posted Tue Sep 4 2007 17:24:36 by FWAERJ
Why No UAX or American Eagle Service ORD-ERI? posted Tue Aug 14 2007 03:28:34 by KDCA