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AA Eagle Selected For ART EAS Service  
User currently offlineFutureUScapt From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 765 posts, RR: 1
Posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3201 times:

The DOT today selected AA Eagle to provide EAS service to ART for the next 24 months at an annual subsidy of just over $3M. Without the subsidy, AA is forecasting a $2.7M loss. AA has proposed 12x weekly service to ART from its ORD hub as follows:

ORD 1305-1555 ART 0 ERD Ex. Sat
ORD 1830-2120 ART 0 ERD Ex Sat

ART 0715-0815 ORD 0 ERD Ex Sun
ART 1630-1730 ORD 0 ERD Ex Sat

Schedule subject to change.

It will be interesting to see how this one plays out. On one hand, I think it is great to see EAS service provided by a major airline that can offer seamless connections to dozens of destinations worldwide on equipment that the flying public has come to expect. On the other hand, I can't help but think how ill-suited ORD is to serve as a connecting point for an ART traffic that would be headed to the eastern seaboard and whether or not this is truly in the best interest of the passengers that would use ART.

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4097 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3158 times:

It's the best that could be hoped for with AA. The service needs to provide the maximum connection possibilities, and ORD definitely has more of those on AA than JFK and everywhere else is too far away.

It does seem counterproductive as one could simply drive to another airport - SYR - in the time it would take for a flight to ORD and then backtrack eastward.


User currently offlineCODCA09 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2556 times:

Wow. There was no other EAS bid better than this?

I would think US Airways Expess to PHL would make more sense. Guess they didn't bid.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8696 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2543 times:

I hope these ERJs have at least 3 seats. Otherwise they might run out of space once in awhile when a passenger comes.  

User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8338 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2500 times:

Who wants to go through Chicago to get to Watertown? Odd.


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User currently offlineVIflyer From US Virgin Islands, joined May 1999, 501 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2465 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 4):
Who wants to go through Chicago to get to Watertown? Odd.

Going after the military traffic from Ft. Drum, allot gets routed thru SYR and since ART is closer it should pull in that crowd (actual army, dependent, gov, etc.)

Vi



I reject your reality and subsitute my own
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8338 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2337 times:

Quoting VIflyer (Reply 5):
Going after the military traffic from Ft. Drum, allot gets routed thru SYR and since ART is closer it should pull in that crowd (actual army, dependent, gov, etc.)

So why not PHL or NYC? I guess the winning bid was ORD, but it still seems like a long way out of the way. It's just not a normal thing to see "KORD" in the flight plan of a Watertown lander.



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User currently offlinepanam330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2692 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2042 times:

Quoting FutureUScapt (Thread starter):
I can't help but think how ill-suited ORD is to serve as a connecting point for an ART traffic that would be headed to the eastern seaboard and whether or not this is truly in the best interest of the passengers that would use ART.

Those pax will just continue to use SYR like they have for the past 30 years. I still think that USX to PHL or DCA would've been a drastically better idea, but it is what it is. Let's hope ART can support it past the subsidy expiration.
Selfishly, I wonder if this'll negatively impact AA's current SYR-ORD schedule.


User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1320 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1988 times:

Quoting panam330 (Reply 7):
I still think that USX to PHL would've been a drastically better idea

I agree. I think US is pretty maxed out on F concourse in PHL though and with the DH8 fleet not growing any, it probably wasn't worth it to bid on those NY/PA EAS cities


User currently offlineSkywatcher From Canada, joined Sep 2002, 462 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1854 times:

I find it curious that the citizens of Watertown can't find a better use for $3,000,000 than this. I hope the Chinese don't object to their loans being used for this type of thing.
Isn't it odd that there is a much larger Canadian town of 30,000 people (Cornwall) just across the St.Lawrence river from Watertown and there is no commercial airline service there at all?

I'm continually shocked at how the supposedly "capitalist" U.S. borrows trillions to hand out primarily to people who are middle class or higher. Is the average passenger going to ORD from Watertown disadvantaged economically?


User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1718 times:

Quoting CODCA09 (Reply 2):

I would think US Airways Expess to PHL would make more sense. Guess they didn't bid.

I actually think UAX service to IAD would have been even better. You get East Coast coverage plus direct service to the DC-area for the Fort Drum related passengers.


User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2977 posts, RR: 30
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1665 times:

The DoT can only select among the bids it receives, of course, and US* didn't bid for PHL, UA* didn't bid for IAD, etc.

Service to O'Hare will obviously not do any good for people who need to head east...not many people are going to fly ART-ORD-LGA, of course. I would guess that a lot of the big cities in the northeast would not be flying destinations fom Watertown anyway. That's especially true if a connection is involved....if US* flew ART-PHL, maybe some local people going to Philadelphia would use it, but probably almost nobody headed to New York would fly if it meant flying ART-PHL-LGA...they'd drive.

As you get further south, it's not so important that ORD be the best option, but that it be a reasonable option.

Watertown-Atlanta, for example, is definitely fewer miles connecting in PHL versus ORD. But if you look at the elapsed time (assuming a 60 minute connection) flying via O'Hare is only 10 minutes longer than flying via Philly on a theoretical DH8 from ART to PHL.

1:15 ART-PHL (DH8)
1:00 connection allowance
2:20 PHL-ATL (typical US/US* flight time)

4:45 total time


2:00 ART-ORD (ERJ)
1:00 connection allowance
1:55 ORD-ATL (typical AA/AA* flight time)

4:55 total time

Flying via ORD is 271 miles longer than flying via PHL...about 28% longer. But from a passenger perspective, there's very little penalty going via Chicago.

EAS markets are not be-everything-to-everybody ventures. Some local people will not fly out of ART because they want nonstop flights. Some people will not fly out of ART if it's $10 more than SYR. Some people will not fly out of ART because they want more flight options, or miles on a different airline. And some people will think flying ART-ORD-ATL is too out of the way. But for those people value the convenience of the local airport over those poetential negatives, this is not a bad service. We'll see if it is patronized well enough to make this succeed.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8696 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1609 times:

Quoting Skywatcher (Reply 9):
Is the average passenger going to ORD from Watertown disadvantaged economically?

It's just proof that these awards are a joke sometimes.

The subsidy per passenger is still very inconsistent from place to place. This sounds like it will be high subsidy (mostly a loss to society).

The traffic at ART depends on the fares vs the very easy alternative at SYR, airport which is about a 1 hour 10 minute drive from Watertown, NY. Essentially, ART would have to be nearly as cheap as the very convenient (and practically local) SYR option. It is similar to JFK in New York City, which often takes a similar time (or more) to reach from parts of New York.

This in my opinion is an abuse of the EAS service which is supposed to provide access to needy areas with a viable demand base.... of which Watertown NY is neither.

To my knowledge, ART typically has single digit passenger counts. A jet ride to Chicago is just... political theater.

[Edited 2011-03-31 20:09:27]

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