Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Southwest Has No Intention On Ever Integrating FL?  
User currently offlineswa4life From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 388 posts, RR: 1
Posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 15462 times:

Such is a rumor being perpetuated by union groups at AirTran. Is this just fear mongering to perpetuate their own agenda or might there be something to it? Can anyone think of a reason why Southwest might stand to gain from operating a dual branded airline instead of just expanding on their own (much more valuable) Southwest brand?

Sources:

http://www.airtrancrewmember.net/ind...showtopic=533&view=findpost&p=3916
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z52psdD6Ry0

71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline2175301 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1082 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 15221 times:

I suspect there is a kernal of truth to the roomer. That being, that SouthWest may be planning a very slow integration.

If I were to guess; it would be that Southwest will merge a few routes at a time.

Have a great day,


User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5334 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 15128 times:

If I read their public disclosures right, Southwest has said that it is their intention to integrate. If it is "secretly" not to integrate, there will be some serious repercussions on the SEC front.

User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2908 posts, RR: 31
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 15077 times:

Quoting swa4life (Thread starter):
Can anyone think of a reason why Southwest might stand to gain from operating a dual branded airline instead of just expanding on their own (much more valuable) Southwest brand?

Southwest has publicly stated that it will not be upgrading its reservation system anytime soon to handle international flights. So with that in mind, they have two options:

1) Operate AirTran as a subsidiary partner, at least temporarily - until the system can be fully and smoothly updated accordingly

2) Drop (or try to sell) ALL of the international stuff

With Option 1, they won't be rushed to merge at all. Remember, it costs a lot of money to redo all the signs at airports, employee uniforms, paint planes, etc. etc. They could gradually phase out the AirTran brand domestically, and when ready (be it 5 or even 10 years), then take on the international stuff themselves. In the meantime, AirTran planes could remain as is - seating assignments, F class, XM radio, wifi - to be a "premium" product over the cattle car WN product. Those planes could probably be useful on quite a few transcon routes that WN doesn't (or has tried but failed to) do today.

I don't see Option 2 happening. After all, WN is paying quite a bit of money for an airline that is valuable in large part because it has international capabilities and experience. Why go through all the cost and effort, just to revert back to a wholly domestic airline? I guarantee the moneymaker routes are not ATL-PNS or MCO-CRW but stuff like ATL-CUN and BWI-MBJ...



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinetimberwolf24 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 576 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14840 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 3):
Southwest has publicly stated that it will not be upgrading its reservation system anytime soon to handle international flights.

It can also mean that Southwest system will not be the surviving system. Airtran's system already handles international bookings, so why spend what probably is big money to upgrade their own system when it could be cheaper to just convert over to Airtran's...



Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
User currently offlinegenybustrvlr From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14701 times:

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 2):
If I read their public disclosures right, Southwest has said that it is their intention to integrate. If it is "secretly" not to integrate, there will be some serious repercussions on the SEC front.

or they could simply file an 8K once the decision is official... there's no penalty for a genuine change of plans.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14322 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 3):
I guarantee the moneymaker routes are not ATL-PNS or MCO-CRW but stuff like ATL-CUN and BWI-MBJ...

Maybe - but WN could have been in BWI-MBJ or MCO-CUN yesterday if it wanted (remember, they've invested in airlines with international routes before). The merger isn't exclusively about international flights, though that is a nice thing to have.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineBraniff727Ultra From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14244 times:

It may be that WN will in time phase out their own system in favor of the Airtran system as noted earlierbut take their time doing it to let the SWA culture of business have time too take root at Airtran.

User currently offlineFlyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 2004 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 14151 times:

Quoting timberwolf24 (Reply 4):
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 3):
Southwest has publicly stated that it will not be upgrading its reservation system anytime soon to handle international flights.

It can also mean that Southwest system will not be the surviving system. Airtran's system already handles international bookings, so why spend what probably is big money to upgrade their own system when it could be cheaper to just convert over to Airtran's...

I'm not sure that is going to happen. WN has a relatively new and updated reservation system and I believe it is the only reservation system with a "point-click" interface in use by a major airline, whereas (and somebody correct me if I'm wrong) it is my understanding that FL has a more traditional or older "call and response"-type system.


User currently offlineflashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2903 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 14048 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Flyguy89 (Reply 8):
. WN has a relatively new and updated reservation system and I believe it is the only reservation system with a "point-click" interface in use by a major airline, whereas (and somebody correct me if I'm wrong) it is my understanding that FL has a more traditional or older "call and response"-type system.

You might be talking about the actual GUI that agents use, but the underlying reservations infrastructure at WN is very old, very cobbled together, and very difficult to extend. It's been well documented that their core reservations systems lack the ability to do international ticketing and many ancillary revenue features such as bag charges. Yes, the GUI might be pretty, but the overall system is quite antiquated and has painted WN into a real corner on its own.


User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5334 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 13899 times:

I had the impression that WN was looking at some varient of the "big boy" systems out there. That said, Navitaire would wet themselves to be able to bring Southwest aboard, no ifs ands or buts. However, as has been documented on other threads here, some aspects of ticketless rather than e-ticket are troublesome to contract agencies and to interlining. OTOH, New Skies scaled up nicely for B6; they dumped it for other reasons -- i.e. trying to get more biz travel. Only they know if it worked, but they sure as shootin' are paying a lot more per reservation than they were with New Skies.

User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5334 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 13886 times:

PS As to Southwest's point and click GUI -- as any word processor (or experienced res agent) will tell you, point and click is easier for the new folks to learn, but slower for experienced folks to use. Give me a keyboard and F keys anyday when inputting repetitive stuff into a system that I know well. The moment my hand has to reach for a mouse, I'm being slowed down. That's why law firms kept Wordperfect 5.1 around for so long -- the support staff didn't want the mouse because it slowed them down.

User currently offlineMDShady From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 13835 times:

They will have to integrate FL otherwise they will basically cannabalize each other on routes. To do otherwise is a complete beauracratic waste of resources, and I don't think WN has a mind set of wasting resources.. I see this merger as an aquisition of lucrative East US slots in order for WN to really hit a home run on complete domestic coverage.

User currently offlineusxguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1041 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 13745 times:

i think we'll be seeing a lot of FL-WN codeshare flights for a few years....

there's no reason a WN 73G can't be thrown into Navitaire & operate international.



xx
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13378 times:

Quoting flashmeister (Reply 9):
It's been well documented that their core reservations systems lack the ability to do international ticketing and many ancillary revenue features such as bag charges.

How, then, does WN charge for third bags?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7691 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 13166 times:

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 1):
I suspect there is a kernal of truth to the roomer.

I think you are right.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 2):
If it is "secretly" not to integrate, there will be some serious repercussions on the SEC front.
Quoting genybustrvlr (Reply 5):
or they could simply file an 8K once the decision is official... there's no penalty for a genuine change of plans.

I really think they can do anything they want. Why would the shareholders care? Whatever decision they make is going to be for the purpose of making the most money, I promise you that. As long as that is the motivation, I don't really see an issue.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 3):
Southwest has publicly stated that it will not be upgrading its reservation system anytime soon to handle international flights.

That's two years away I hear, but we already knew FL would exist for at least 2 years. The real question is whether FL and WN will be allowed to code share without a single pilot contract. That's a big problem and one that remains unresolved...and presently banned.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 10):
I had the impression that WN was looking at some varient of the "big boy" systems out there. That said, Navitaire would wet themselves to be able to bring Southwest aboard

I'm told Navitaire isn't even involved in the process. I think they are looking at Sabre and some sort of Amadeus LCC system. Supposedly there are only two players still involved and no official bidding/award process has been set up.

HERE IS MY OPINION ON THE TRANSITION
1) I think they really are not that excited about the 717 and I back that up with recent announcements about looking for replacement aircraft to order specifically to replace the 717. I think that means that the FL operation will be shrunk fairly quickly. I would expect 25-50% of the 717s to be parked within 18 months. The real question mark is whether any 717s will ever be on the WN certificate. I think they will, but it's not definite.
2) I think as the 717s are parked, you will see "rationalization" of the route network. To me that means elimination of many AirTran stations in markets that are smaller than where WN wants to be. Additionally, I think ATL will remain largely neutral on flights so there will be a trade of frequencies from places like PHF/ROC/GRR/ABE/etc. to DEN/PHX/SAN/etc.
3) I think it would not surprise me to see the line employees of AirTran to get screwed and by that I mean "stapling". That's what was proposed for F9 and I see no reason why this would be any different.
4) I think in two years AirTran will look largely like ATA did flying only the routes that WN can't fly (int'l). They will still need 737s on the FL certificate because they are the overwater aircraft. If it is profitable (ATA wasn't) then what is left will fully merge into WN when the RES system debacle finally resolves itself. If the husk is not profitable, they may simple discard it ala Transtar/Muse.


User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 2004 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 12732 times:

Quoting flashmeister (Reply 9):
Quoting Flyguy89 (Reply 8):
. WN has a relatively new and updated reservation system and I believe it is the only reservation system with a "point-click" interface in use by a major airline, whereas (and somebody correct me if I'm wrong) it is my understanding that FL has a more traditional or older "call and response"-type system.

You might be talking about the actual GUI that agents use, but the underlying reservations infrastructure at WN is very old, very cobbled together, and very difficult to extend. It's been well documented that their core reservations systems lack the ability to do international ticketing and many ancillary revenue features such as bag charges. Yes, the GUI might be pretty, but the overall system is quite antiquated and has painted WN into a real corner on its own.

I see, thanks for the explanation then.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 11):
PS As to Southwest's point and click GUI -- as any word processor (or experienced res agent) will tell you, point and click is easier for the new folks to learn, but slower for experienced folks to use. Give me a keyboard and F keys anyday when inputting repetitive stuff into a system that I know well. The moment my hand has to reach for a mouse, I'm being slowed down. That's why law firms kept Wordperfect 5.1 around for so long -- the support staff didn't want the mouse because it slowed them down.

LOL well I guess I can testify to that. When I was a new-hire at American Eagle, I would often cast jealous glances over to the WN ticket counter as I was banging away like I was programming the space shuttle, Sabre was not my friend haha.

Quoting enilria (Reply 15):
I think they really are not that excited about the 717 and I back that up with recent announcements about looking for replacement aircraft to order specifically to replace the 717.

I don't know, I would think that WN would at least give the 717 a chance before they start parking them. I know it would go against one of their cardinal rules of one fleet-type only, but they have been branching out of their cardinal rules for quite a while now. The 717 would, IMHO, give them some flexibility and the ability to better match capacity with demand on certain routes.


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 887 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 12663 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

B717 aircraft are already being shown in drawings in Southwest colors. This acft. gives Southwest the ability to serve smaller markets and is a profitable aircraft for such markets. Southwest's business model is constantly evolving and my guess is that they have s no intention of giving up on Airtran's profitable small and medium sized markets such as FNT, BMI etc. I'm sure they thought this all out very carefully. I know my hometown airport has been talking to SWA about Airtran service.

User currently offlinegenybustrvlr From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12488 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 15):
I really think they can do anything they want. Why would the shareholders care? Whatever decision they make is going to be for the purpose of making the most money, I promise you that. As long as that is the motivation, I don't really see an issue.

You're correct, SW can do whatever they want. They just need to keep their paper work in order and disclose material events since they're a public reporting company. In practice, management is not worried about what the SEC filings say. Management goes about their job of managing the company and a team of lawyers stands by updating SEC filings and advising management of any potential legal implications, as necessary.


User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3929 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12234 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 15):
I think in two years AirTran will look largely like ATA did flying only the routes that WN can't fly (int'l).

I think something like this may happen. It might not even be a case of the airTran brand sticking around, just their infrastructure being used for international flights, as necessary. Simple "operated by airTran" stickers by the boarding doors should do the trick, at least until WN have decided what do do with their ticketing/reservations system.

I think the 717s will stay, WN will fly them into the ground (like the 732s). The resale value is probably not great for these frames, and lease rates are probably quite low. The other problem for WN is that these 717s would likely remain in ATL, but with a widget on the tail. They would complement the MD-90 fleet nicely and fit with the current DL strategy of buying good quality, but cheap second hand types, which are not so popular with other airlines.

Brian.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently onlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12041 times:

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 19):
think the 717s will stay, WN will fly them into the ground (like the 732s). The resale value is probably not great for these frames, and lease rates are probably quite low. The other problem for WN is that these 717s would likely remain in ATL, but with a widget on the tail. They would complement the MD-90 fleet nicely and fit with the current DL strategy of buying good quality, but cheap second hand types, which are not so popular with other

Better yet..if they got rid of the 717s, DL would probably snap them us as you said and could use them to become a thorn in AA's side in MIA.

I firmly believe that DL has its sights set on cherry picking some of AA highly profitable latin/Caribbean flights out of MIA and the 717s would be a great starter aircraft for that. PLS, PAP, POS, GCM, SJO etc



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6826 posts, RR: 32
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 11582 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 3):
After all, WN is paying quite a bit of money for an airline that is valuable in large part because it has international capabilities and experience.

The big value in AirTran is NOT the international routes -- it is the access to ATL, LGA, and DCA.

Quoting enilria (Reply 15):
3) I think it would not surprise me to see the line employees of AirTran to get screwed and by that I mean "stapling". That's what was proposed for F9 and I see no reason why this would be any different.

The seniority integration is up to the individual union groups, not SWA management. McCaskill-Bond prohibits a staple. FWIW, I think SWA's employee groups get a MUCH better deal with a date-of-hire integration, even though some seem to think they would get shafted by that. Frontier was an asset purchase -- but keep in mind that the pilots still would have had to come to an agreement regarding how they would integrate.

Quoting swa4life (Thread starter):
Can anyone think of a reason why Southwest might stand to gain from operating a dual branded airline instead of just expanding on their own (much more valuable) Southwest brand?

Lower wage rates at AirTran.

Quoting enilria (Reply 15):
I would expect 25-50% of the 717s to be parked within 18 months.

Only if Southwest is planning to reduce capacity significantly. They don't have enough new 737's coming to backfill for parking a large portion of the 717 fleet. And a fair number of FL's gates at ATL won't fit the 73G.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 3):
Southwest has publicly stated that it will not be upgrading its reservation system anytime soon to handle international flights.

My guess is that this may have more to do with not trying to implement two major changes at once (i.e. the priority changed to integrating AirTran). But in the end, that have either (1) figured out a way to handle it within their plan or (2) will end up dropping FL's international routes. The money they could make from international service might not be worthwhile if it increases costs by 10 cents for every other passenger carried.


User currently offlinen9801f From Samoa, joined Apr 2004, 346 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10342 times:

It could make good sense to operate the two separately because you could avoid the complex fleet and labor integrations.

You could still get branding synergies if you ran AirTran like one of the majors' express partners - with Southwest branding but an 'Operated by AirTran' sticker, as noted above.

Eventually, if you find a good replacement for 717's (E-195?) then you might talk about fully merging the two.

Another point is that AirTran's network works a lot differently than Southwest's. The ATL schedule is highly banked, and they obviously rely heavily on connecting traffic. 737's are too big for many AirTran markets.

Keeping FL as a separate, wholly-owned subsidiary solves all of this. And it keeps the door open to operate E-195's on a commuter airline pay scale...


User currently offlinegrain From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9799 times:

just to kill the rumor.... WN will run FL until they are able to fully integrate it into WN. airtran employees will work out senority with our unions. most of airtrans smaller stations have contract workers in them anyways.

User currently offlineRamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9719 times:

Quoting n9801f (Reply 22):
Keeping FL as a separate, wholly-owned subsidiary solves all of this. And it keeps the door open to operate E-195's on a commuter airline pay scale...

Yeah, but...the pilots have this little union they've put together...


25 Post contains images SPREE34 : Why would the E195 affect this, but not the 717? Not likely. Seating wise it's a direct replacement for the 717s and 737-5H4. I don't see Southwest g
26 ScottB : How exactly does the operator of the aircraft matter with regard to the scheduling? And the hub banks are less important when the airline offers suff
27 XT6Wagon : if they did this for more than the transition, I'm sure its easy enough to change the name to Southwest international or something else that doesn't
28 Post contains images mke717spotter : If the DOJ approves the merger, I find it hard to believe that at some point WN wouldn't eventually integrate FL. It might get a little long/messy whe
29 Atlwest1 : I doubt that would happen. If anything they may give up a token gate or two in some cities. But it will proceed. Would be lovely if they took some of
30 richierich : Considering a lot of AirTran is the B717, I find this hard to accept. Personally I think that it would be a huge mistake to park so many aircraft aft
31 DesertAir : It seems to me that WN can keep its present route structure and operate the Air Tran ATL hub at the same time. The big question is to keep ATL a tradi
32 beryllium : DOJ approved DL/NW and UA/CO combinations - those were marriages of a considereably bigger scale. There is absolutely no real reason why DOJ would cr
33 slcdeltarumd11 : Absolutely Plus now WN really gets a major beef up at BWI and a true hub there. What marketshare do WN and FL have combined at BWI. I bet we see that
34 davs5032 : They would seem to be an ideal temporary replacement for the DC-9's, which are going to have to go before a long term fix will be available. (C serie
35 beryllium : Combined they have about 70% in BWI. (BWI, by the way, is just about the only issue in this merger that might be an issue from the DOJ standpoint)...
36 FL787 : I don't have the info on hand right now but I believe of FL's 22 C gates, only 5 can handle 73Gs (1,2,14,21,22). On D they have 10 gates and I think
37 Atlwest1 : That is correct and if you throw the F9 gate in, which they use sometimes, maybe 11.
38 n9801f : Yes, too true. Strictly speaking, as you point out, it shouldn't. However my point is that AirTran's revenue model is quite different from Southwest'
39 ScottB : As part of the acquisition, Southwest will presumably try to retain the AirTran employees and intellectual property (i.e. traffic/fare data and compu
40 freakyrat : Southwest may decide to add XM radio to all their planes. The gentleman from XM that signed up the Airtran Contract was also working to interest South
41 WWTRAVELER99 : There will be a code share you can count on that. It would be a waste of resourses if they did not code share. The pilots and WN have an intergration
42 Maverick623 : Yes. /thread
43 Post contains links LoneStarMike : Southwest Pilots Approve Five-Year Contract November 3, 2009 So basically, if I'm interpreting this correctly, codesharing would be on mainline jets,
44 OzarkD9S : I've been reading this post for a couple of days and I'll throw in my opinion. WN will treat the FL employees as fairly as possible. The last thing WN
45 grain : i guess one thing to remember is that when you own both airlines, its not considered codesharing.
46 LoneStarMike : If the two airlines are on separate operating certificates, then yes - it is considered codesharing. LoneStarMike
47 jetjack74 : It means that they can't be arbitrarily thrown to the bottom of the seniority list. It is to prevent what happened to the TWA/AA from happening again
48 Post contains links beryllium : Meanwhile, some FL HDQ employees have already started taking their services elsewhere ahead of the WN takeover: http://www.ajc.com/business/some-air..
49 TZTriStar500 : No, they won't be. Those aircraft already have prospective customers and all will not go to one operator.
50 Post contains links travatl : As indicated on their home page, the Southwest flight attendants' union is preparing to enter into negotiations regarding international, overwater, an
51 mke717spotter : What exactly is to become of those 25 former YX 717s? That'd be kind of ironic if they ended up with the new WN, since it was FL that a few years ago
52 WWTRAVELER99 : So do you know who these prospective customers are? Could it be a carrier named WN? From what I have heard from friend at Boeing is that they will in
53 TZTriStar500 : I cannot disclose who that may be, but it's up to 5 different customers despite what has been previously said that BCC wants them all to one operator
54 Cubsrule : But what's the marginal cost of integrating 111 712s rather than just 86? I don't know that it's that high. WN doesn't have a lot of practice integra
55 WWTRAVELER99 : They would like to rid themselves of the -500's and now maybe speed up the -300's. As far as the -500's WN had 25 so adding the 25 717's would be a o
56 Kcrwflyer : The only thing I can think of is the level of market flexibility FL has that WN doesnt.. If they How well does WN use the 735s to manage capacity anyw
57 N1120A : Cattle car? WN has a better Y product than just about any airline in the US, at least from a seating comfort prospective. Isn't WN's system based on
58 TZTriStar500 : Those aren't the issues, it's the fact that BCC wants to sign new leases NOW, not in 3-6 months when WN gets around to starting how to add the 717 to
59 Cubsrule : WN can pay leases for 3 to 6 months. That doesn't need to be an issue. If WN doesn't want them and/or BCC doesn't want WN to have them, that's fine,
60 Kcrwflyer : Thats an interesting point... I wonder if it'll go like the US/HP merger and the citrus callsign could live on?
61 Cubsrule : While it would be awesome if it happened, I don't think it will. But in terms of the certificates, it's just like HP/US. US had all HP types on the c
62 TZTriStar500 : I never said costs where an issue, it would be logistics if anything but WN isn't interested in these aircraft, plane and simple.
63 Cubsrule : But that's not really an issue either. WN pays and they sit stored at GYR or wherever on FL's certificate.
64 TZTriStar500 : If you insist on arguing over the hypothetical, why would an airline spend wasted money on aircraft they won't use right away paying for leases and i
65 GizmoNC : SWA is looking at either Sabre or Amadeus but CEO Kelley stated he will start the Airtran SWA merger first. Then he said SWA would work on the reserva
66 srbmod : One thing to remember is that FL was already beginning to look into a replacement for the 717s, with a plan to potentially start retiring the oldest
67 Cubsrule : And if they want growth in the fleet, they have no choice. This is pretty much WN's only chance to grow the 712 fleet by 25 frames, so if that was a
68 TZTriStar500 : Why the sarcasm? If WN wanted them, I'm sure BCC would oblige. What part of they aren't interested or a potential operator don't you get?
69 irish : Since this is not a merger cant SW just rehire all FL ground crew and not worry about people not fitting the culture?
70 GizmoNC : SWA is very picky on who they hire. Here are stats for 2009. SWA received 92,000 applications. About 6000 inteviews were granted. And of those 6000 in
71 Cubsrule : None - but that's really the point, not that there is some financial or logistical reason that WN can't get those frames. Again, if WN wanted them, B
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
AA Has No Intention Of Operating STL-LHR posted Wed Dec 26 2007 20:20:56 by LambertMan
The King (Southwest) Has No Clothes! posted Fri Apr 8 2005 19:50:22 by Padcrasher
LH Has No First Class On FRA-DFW posted Mon Jul 10 2006 16:34:43 by BOAC911
Why No Changes On Southwest's -500's Yet? posted Wed Apr 10 2002 05:26:13 by SEA nw DC10
Southwest Unveils 'No Change Fees' Ads posted Fri Dec 31 2010 16:28:53 by Goldenshield
No Ch 9 On CO A/c Anytime Soon, Maybe No Y+ posted Fri Dec 17 2010 18:25:17 by ryu2
Free Gogo On DL, VX, FL 11/20/10-1/2/11 posted Mon Nov 8 2010 07:30:31 by bnatraveler
A332 No Longer On US PHL-CLT? posted Wed Aug 18 2010 15:47:54 by will777
Why No Mainline On IAH-ABQ? posted Sun May 23 2010 00:36:51 by ABQ747
FA Has Heart Attack On SY MSP-CUN posted Sat Mar 13 2010 15:49:23 by CalebWilliams