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Bombardier Mulls CRJ/Q400 Production Cut  
User currently offlineCRJ900X From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 197 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5756 times:

Although Bombardier has done well selling its line of business aircraft, the commercial side of the company has not held up as well.

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ommercial-aircraft-production.html

The most surprising information that I took away was that the CRJ line still has 23 months of production backlog, while the Q400 only has 13 months. The CRJ order book still includes orders from customers such as Iraqi Airways and Tatarstan Airlines CRJ900's that haven't taken delivery of their orders in a few years, same as Felix Airways and their order for CRJ700's.

Hopefully some existing customers of CRJ/Q400's will order some further examples (ex.Alliance Air CRJ700, South African Express Q400's) to keep production rates at current levels.

Embraer and Sukhoi have been able to sell their Regional aircraft, and hopefully Bombardier will be able to get some positive news (along with some long sought after CSeries orders) in the coming few months.

Cheers,
CRJ900X

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineart From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5226 times:

From the flightglobal article re CRJ/Q400 production rates:

"For each programme Bombardier states an ideal production backlog timeframe is roughly 20 months. "

I wonder why 20 months is an ideal backlog for Bombardier but A & B have more like a 60 month backlog for their narrowbodies. Seems like a massive discrepancy.


User currently offlineBureaucromancer From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5159 times:

Quoting art (Reply 1):
I wonder why 20 months is an ideal backlog for Bombardier but A & B have more like a 60 month backlog for their narrowbodies. Seems like a massive discrepancy.

I'd think that the aircraft are quicker to build, making a longer backup considerably larger and that the sector they operate in is more sensitive to delivery times.


User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2161 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4572 times:

Quoting CRJ900X (Thread starter):
Hopefully some existing customers of CRJ/Q400's will order some further examples (ex.Alliance Air CRJ700, South African Express Q400's) to keep production rates at current levels.

I have heard serveral foreign airlines would like to order the Q400, but that pilots are impossible to find. Maybe this is slowing down demand for the Q400, which is actually a great plane. Can Bombardier do anything to alleviate pilot shortage?


User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7202 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4446 times:

Quoting AF022 (Reply 3):
Can Bombardier do anything to alleviate pilot shortage?

Lower the price of the a/c, money saved on purchase price can be used to train pilots.
Just a thought


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5465 posts, RR: 30
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4341 times:

I don't think any airline on the planet is paying list prices for aircraft.


What the...?
User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2630 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4290 times:

It seems that on the other hand ATR is managing to sell its props rather well lately and has no intention of dropping the production rate, rather the opposite. The Q400 is a great plane so I wonder what BBD has been doing wrong? In any case, with oil above 100$ again, and here to stay, the business case for the Q400 has greatly improved. I see much more future in it (and hopefully a Q400X stretch soon) than in the CRJ's.

User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6655 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4122 times:

Well, in the context of turboprops, what is wrong with the Q400 is that it's less efficient than the ATR. Speed has a cost. Maintenance is also costlier, I think.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineEstorilM From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4012 times:

I hope they can recover and establish a competitive business approach with current/future aircraft. I've always liked their design philosophies and admired the style of aircraft they build..

Especially the CRJ900. Very easy on the eyes, check this out (Q400 and CRJ900 aerial promo video, hard clip to find these days)

http://www.mojvideo.com/video-bombar...400-in-crj900/f57729e47c25e970a4da


User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2630 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3720 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 7):
Well, in the context of turboprops, what is wrong with the Q400 is that it's less efficient than the ATR. Speed has a cost. Maintenance is also costlier, I think.

I think the problem is that BBD is not actively promoting the Q400 as a regional jet killer, something its speed makes it well suited for, because it would cannibalize on their CRJ line. In consequence, if you limit the Q400's scope to the "traditional" prop routes, where its speed cannot come into play, indeed the ATR is better due to low operating costs.


User currently offlineTangowhisky From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 928 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3455 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 6):
It seems that on the other hand ATR is managing to sell its props rather well lately and has no intention of dropping the production rate, rather the opposite. The Q400 is a great plane so I wonder what BBD has been doing wrong?

I think ATR are being more aggressive. They are taking a chance and increasing production rate and that means asking their suppliers for better pricing. All this translates to more aggressive pricing, and likely better financing to their customers through European banks.

Quoting r2rho (Reply 6):
In any case, with oil above 100$ again, and here to stay, the business case for the Q400 has greatly improved.

Goes both ways. That can also mean airlines have less cash to invest on capital purchases.

Quoting r2rho (Reply 6):
I see much more future in it (and hopefully a Q400X stretch soon) than in the CRJ's.

Here we go again, if the current product sells poorly, stretch it. Sounds like the same old strategy that has not worked. How many CRJ1000s do you think they will sell? The market for turboprops is shrinking. The business case of stretching current designs, is not there

Quoting Aesma (Reply 7):
what is wrong with the Q400 is that it's less efficient than the ATR.
Quoting r2rho (Reply 9):
I think the problem is that BBD is not actively promoting the Q400 as a regional jet killer,

Both statements are true. The Q400 is closer to being a RJ killer because Bombardier wanted t it to be a fast turboprop. So it sucks more fuel than the ATR and puts pressure on RJ sales, while making the business case for the ATR better.

In any case, their backlogs are not good. If one looks at their Program Status Reports from the website and look at individual backlogs, most aircraft are built, others are on shaky ground due to specific customer issues. Very few are true blue unbuilt backlogs. They need some serious "true blue" orders.



Only the paranoid survive
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2191 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3112 times:
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I wonder how BBD sees the CRJ1000, as a customer-specified aircraft for two existing customers (like Boeing with the B767-400) or as a product for several applications - 100-seat LCC work horse, 86-94-seat two-class regional aircraft etc...

There is very little updated info on their website nowadays. Is there a new Regional Update issue on the way soon?



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlinejoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 937 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3072 times:

Quoting CRJ900X (Thread starter):
The most surprising information that I took away was that the CRJ line still has 23 months of production backlog, while the Q400 only has 13 months.

CRJ's have 23 months of backlog!!! Really? Who is buying these POS's? I honestly didn't realize they were still making them considering the rate at which Delta is dumping theirs (among other airlines). Passenger's absolutely hate these things! Where have all the CRJ's gone that Delta has dumped?

Now CR7's and CR9's are not that bad and these are still being purchased at nice rates I believe.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5465 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

Quoting joeljack (Reply 12):
CRJ's have 23 months of backlog!!! Really? Who is buying these POS's?

BBD doesn't make the 100/200 anymore. They only offer the 700, 900 and 1000.



What the...?
User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2630 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks ago) and read 2888 times:

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 11):
I wonder how BBD sees the CRJ1000, as a customer-specified aircraft for two existing customers (like Boeing with the B767-400) or as a product for several applications - 100-seat LCC work horse, 86-94-seat two-class regional aircraft etc...

IMO, if it weren't for scope clauses, a lot more airlines, particularly in the US, would be ordering CRK's, an aircraft which makes plenty of sense when you already have a CR7/CR9 fleet.


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