The most surprising information that I took away was that the CRJ line still has 23 months of production backlog, while the Q400 only has 13 months. The CRJ order book still includes orders from customers such as Iraqi Airways and Tatarstan Airlines CRJ900's that haven't taken delivery of their orders in a few years, same as Felix Airways and their order for CRJ700's.
Hopefully some existing customers of CRJ/Q400's will order some further examples (ex.Alliance Air CRJ700, South African Express Q400's) to keep production rates at current levels.
Embraer and Sukhoi have been able to sell their Regional aircraft, and hopefully Bombardier will be able to get some positive news (along with some long sought after CSeries orders) in the coming few months.
art From Lebanon, joined Feb 2005, 2972 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4433 times:
From the flightglobal article re CRJ/Q400 production rates:
"For each programme Bombardier states an ideal production backlog timeframe is roughly 20 months. "
I wonder why 20 months is an ideal backlog for Bombardier but A & B have more like a 60 month backlog for their narrowbodies. Seems like a massive discrepancy.
Bureaucromancer From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 163 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4366 times:
Quoting art (Reply 1): I wonder why 20 months is an ideal backlog for Bombardier but A & B have more like a 60 month backlog for their narrowbodies. Seems like a massive discrepancy.
I'd think that the aircraft are quicker to build, making a longer backup considerably larger and that the sector they operate in is more sensitive to delivery times.
AF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2092 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3779 times:
Quoting CRJ900X (Thread starter): Hopefully some existing customers of CRJ/Q400's will order some further examples (ex.Alliance Air CRJ700, South African Express Q400's) to keep production rates at current levels.
I have heard serveral foreign airlines would like to order the Q400, but that pilots are impossible to find. Maybe this is slowing down demand for the Q400, which is actually a great plane. Can Bombardier do anything to alleviate pilot shortage?
r2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2275 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3497 times:
It seems that on the other hand ATR is managing to sell its props rather well lately and has no intention of dropping the production rate, rather the opposite. The Q400 is a great plane so I wonder what BBD has been doing wrong? In any case, with oil above 100$ again, and here to stay, the business case for the Q400 has greatly improved. I see much more future in it (and hopefully a Q400X stretch soon) than in the CRJ's.
Aesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 4934 posts, RR: 9 Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3329 times:
Well, in the context of turboprops, what is wrong with the Q400 is that it's less efficient than the ATR. Speed has a cost. Maintenance is also costlier, I think.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
EstorilM From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 124 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3219 times:
I hope they can recover and establish a competitive business approach with current/future aircraft. I've always liked their design philosophies and admired the style of aircraft they build..
Especially the CRJ900. Very easy on the eyes, check this out (Q400 and CRJ900 aerial promo video, hard clip to find these days)
r2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2275 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2927 times:
Quoting Aesma (Reply 7): Well, in the context of turboprops, what is wrong with the Q400 is that it's less efficient than the ATR. Speed has a cost. Maintenance is also costlier, I think.
I think the problem is that BBD is not actively promoting the Q400 as a regional jet killer, something its speed makes it well suited for, because it would cannibalize on their CRJ line. In consequence, if you limit the Q400's scope to the "traditional" prop routes, where its speed cannot come into play, indeed the ATR is better due to low operating costs.
Tangowhisky From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 862 posts, RR: 8 Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2662 times:
Quoting r2rho (Reply 6): It seems that on the other hand ATR is managing to sell its props rather well lately and has no intention of dropping the production rate, rather the opposite. The Q400 is a great plane so I wonder what BBD has been doing wrong?
I think ATR are being more aggressive. They are taking a chance and increasing production rate and that means asking their suppliers for better pricing. All this translates to more aggressive pricing, and likely better financing to their customers through European banks.
Quoting r2rho (Reply 6): In any case, with oil above 100$ again, and here to stay, the business case for the Q400 has greatly improved.
Goes both ways. That can also mean airlines have less cash to invest on capital purchases.
Quoting r2rho (Reply 6): I see much more future in it (and hopefully a Q400X stretch soon) than in the CRJ's.
Here we go again, if the current product sells poorly, stretch it. Sounds like the same old strategy that has not worked. How many CRJ1000s do you think they will sell? The market for turboprops is shrinking. The business case of stretching current designs, is not there
Quoting Aesma (Reply 7): what is wrong with the Q400 is that it's less efficient than the ATR.
Quoting r2rho (Reply 9): I think the problem is that BBD is not actively promoting the Q400 as a regional jet killer,
Both statements are true. The Q400 is closer to being a RJ killer because Bombardier wanted t it to be a fast turboprop. So it sucks more fuel than the ATR and puts pressure on RJ sales, while making the business case for the ATR better.
In any case, their backlogs are not good. If one looks at their Program Status Reports from the website and look at individual backlogs, most aircraft are built, others are on shaky ground due to specific customer issues. Very few are true blue unbuilt backlogs. They need some serious "true blue" orders.
CRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2081 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2319 times:
I wonder how BBD sees the CRJ1000, as a customer-specified aircraft for two existing customers (like Boeing with the B767-400) or as a product for several applications - 100-seat LCC work horse, 86-94-seat two-class regional aircraft etc...
There is very little updated info on their website nowadays. Is there a new Regional Update issue on the way soon?
joeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 876 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2279 times:
Quoting CRJ900X (Thread starter): The most surprising information that I took away was that the CRJ line still has 23 months of production backlog, while the Q400 only has 13 months.
CRJ's have 23 months of backlog!!! Really? Who is buying these POS's? I honestly didn't realize they were still making them considering the rate at which Delta is dumping theirs (among other airlines). Passenger's absolutely hate these things! Where have all the CRJ's gone that Delta has dumped?
Now CR7's and CR9's are not that bad and these are still being purchased at nice rates I believe.
r2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2275 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2095 times:
Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 11): I wonder how BBD sees the CRJ1000, as a customer-specified aircraft for two existing customers (like Boeing with the B767-400) or as a product for several applications - 100-seat LCC work horse, 86-94-seat two-class regional aircraft etc...
IMO, if it weren't for scope clauses, a lot more airlines, particularly in the US, would be ordering CRK's, an aircraft which makes plenty of sense when you already have a CR7/CR9 fleet.
Sponsor Message: 
From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 189 posts, 
From Lebanon, joined Feb 2005, 2972 posts, 
From France, joined Dec 2003, 2092 posts, 
From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 5918 posts, 
From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2275 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 124 posts, 
From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2081 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
