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United A320 Off Runway In MSY  
User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 29372 times:

The plane made an emergency landing after takeoff to SFO as UA497...after landing (looks like on runway 19), nose gear went off the runway and got stuck in the mud...looks like it's stuck in there pretty deep. Pax evacuated via slides.

http://www.wwltv.com/outbound-feeds/...r-smoke-is-detected-119174314.html

Live video feed on CNN.com...

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream4&hpt=T2

91 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 29290 times:
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Just announced on news radio here in the DC area.

But since it was tossed in at the end of a WN story, some may have missed the UA name.


User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 29270 times:

Here's a picture...



User currently offlineMagcheck From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 28857 times:

I agree with your assessment that it appears to be RWY 19. Wind also from the south and the airport features check out. The CNN camera angle is deceiving and it's not that close, but it would stink to have that forward slide on the port side deploy onto the 2k' runway distance remaining sign.....a bumpy.... or even deflated.....egress.....

User currently offlinegatorfan From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 331 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 28819 times:

I think we're going to be hearing about some crew communication issues. Based solely on the linked new story, it seems that the FA's ordered the evacuation and not the pilot (since the evac alarm does not appear to have sounded).

User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2247 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 28767 times:

OK, I'll say what everyone else on ANet is thinking:

"Joe Patroni, please contact Lincoln International Airport operations, to make reservations on the next flight to New Orleans".

All joking aside, I'm glad the aircraft appears to be undamaged, and nobody was hurt.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineAlasizon From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 28717 times:

While a bit off topic, just was watching the live feed and noted one of the pilots taking pictures of a flight attendant as she came down the evacuation slide.


Window seats may be over-rated, but I'll take a window seat on a DC9 anyday
User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1480 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 28512 times:

Quoting gatorfan (Reply 4):
I think we're going to be hearing about some crew communication issues. Based solely on the linked new story, it seems that the FA's ordered the evacuation and not the pilot (since the evac alarm does not appear to have sounded).

Not necessarily. The EVAC Alarm isn't required. It's possible/likely that the FD communicated to the FA's (and the cabin) during the emergency.

I realize this:

"There was no announcement, and no interior lights or seat belt announcements were turned on."

-was stated in the article but first, this sentence doesn't make much sense.. "seat belt announcements"?? and also we all know people pay ZERO attention to the crew and or their surroundings.

My guess is that the FD crew communicated with the FA's before landing and could have instructed them the evacuate after they came to a stop.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3086 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 28366 times:

It was definitely 19. ATIS saying 1/19 closed.


The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY
User currently offlineEliNYC From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 28392 times:

http://avherald.com/h?article=43a6bc08&opt=0

I wonder how they were able to descend to 600AGL in IMC without any instruments. Also, CNN shows right now looks like they also overrun the runway!


User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 28331 times:

Lost instruments in IMC. They did a damn fine job to get it on the ground in one piece


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlinebgm From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 28261 times:

Seems to be N409UA

http://gb.flightaware.com/live/fligh...A/history/20110404/1207Z/KMSY/KSFO


User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3086 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 28177 times:

Quoting EliNYC (Reply 9):
ke they also overrun the runway!

Must be off the side of the runway as there really isn't much grass overun area on 19 to speak of.



The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6732 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 28118 times:

We talked about this recently, the F/As can order an evacuation if they feel it's warranted, and here it appears to be.

As for an undamaged A/C, it looks to me the nose gear took a beating.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1751 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 27600 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 13):
As for an undamaged A/C, it looks to me the nose gear took a beating.

Still in one piece though!


User currently offlineMagcheck From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 27500 times:

From EliNYC's avherald article:

"The crew told passengers that they had lost all electronics and were flying on minimal backup systems, landing would occur overweight with minimal braking and minimal steering ability."

Assuming this announcement actually occured and was factually accurate-- why minimal steering ability?


User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3045 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 27218 times:

Quoting Magcheck (Reply 15):
why minimal steering ability?

maybe there was a hydraulics issue associated with the power failure? I think the hydraulic pumps are electric powered.


User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 26928 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 16):
Quoting Magcheck (Reply 15):
why minimal steering ability?

maybe there was a hydraulics issue associated with the power failure? I think the hydraulic pumps are electric powered.

The A320 has an electric brake and steering control unit so I am guessing there was some malfunction



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5057 posts, RR: 43
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 26882 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 13):
We talked about this recently, the F/As can order an evacuation if they feel it's warranted, and here it appears to be.

It is never a good idea for the Flight Attendants to initiate an evacuation without consulting the pilots, regardless how much they feel it is warranted. The biggest issue would be the engines. Considering that about 70% of the aircraft will evacuate from either the over-wing exits, or the real doors ... all into the running thrust of the engines.

Quoting Magcheck (Reply 15):
Assuming this announcement actually occured and was factually accurate-- why minimal steering ability?

One of the smoke procedures on the A320 is to put the aircraft into the "ELEC EMER CONFIG". When you do this, nose wheel steering is lost.

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 10):
Lost instruments in IMC. They did a damn fine job to get it on the ground in one piece

Stand-by instruments however would still function.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6732 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 26365 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 18):
It is never a good idea for the Flight Attendants to initiate an evacuation without consulting the pilots, regardless how much they feel it is warranted. The biggest issue would be the engines. Considering that about 70% of the aircraft will evacuate from either the over-wing exits, or the real doors ... all into the running thrust of the engines.

I didn't say there was no communication. As for the pilots, the first thing they would have done once the plane was brought to a halt would have been to shutdown the engines, especially with the nose like that.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 18):
Stand-by instruments however would still function.

And obviously, they still had some control, so at least one flight computer was working.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1182 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 26055 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 18):
It is never a good idea for the Flight Attendants to initiate an evacuation without consulting the pilots, regardless how much they feel it is warranted.

Pilots are trained to put the planes safely on the ground and Flight Attendants are trained with, and responsible for, making sure that those on board gets off of / out of the airplane safely. In every pre flight briefing with the pilots I've been a part of (thousands over a lot of years I think) the pilots always acknowledge that possibility that the need for an evacuation without communication between the flight deck and the flight attendants exists. Depending on the circumstances, there may not be the luxury of communicating with the flight deck.


User currently offlinemcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1474 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 26056 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 18):
Stand-by instruments however would still function.

Except in the bus the airplane is driven to direct law, some unpleasant things happen to the systems and flying on the peanut gyro and trying to fly an approach in the soup is not fun in any airplane.


User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5057 posts, RR: 43
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 25781 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 19):
I didn't say there was no communication. As for the pilots, the first thing they would have done once the plane was brought to a halt would have been to shutdown the engines, especially with the nose like that.

Not the first thing. In fact, shutting the engines down is further down the "ground evacuation" check list then you might imagine. There are reasons for that, which are not relevant here.

If there were communication, then the evacuation would have been ordered by the pilots, using information from the flight attendants to aid in the decision process. What you said what that you felt in this case an evacuation initiated by the flight attendants was warranted. (the only way for them to do that, would be to not communicate with the cockpit). I am mixed on this. The condition of the aircraft in this case does not warrant an evacuation. The aircraft is about 5 degrees pitch down, with the nose gear off the paved surface. The airframe is fully intact.

Knowing that there WILL be injuries in an evacuation, the position of the aircraft does not warrant an evacuation.

However.

There WAS, smoke in the cockpit/cabin. Therefore there WAS an ignition source. And even though the source was eliminated, there smoke/fire can continue. When that is the case, an evacuation is the best decision. AFTER, the aircraft is secure, and AFTER the engines have been shut down!

Understand though, that this decision would be made because of the smoke. Not as a result of the condition of the aircraft position. In other words, had the aircraft stopped on the runway, (hard to do with only 2 spoilers, no reverse and manual braking without anti-skid), then an evacuation likely still would have occurred.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinepiper31 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 7 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 25719 times:

I watched the report from Channel 4 in New Orleans. The reporter kept saying the plane left the "road". Maybe they should at least get someone who knows what a runway is. If the plane had landed on a road then that would have been a lot worse story.

User currently offlinePWMRamper From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 638 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 25713 times:

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kmsy/KMSY-Apr-04-2011-1200Z.mp3

ATC Audio, starts around 11:30.


25 longhauler : With the ELEC EMER CONFIG, among other things, the Captain's PFD, ND, Upper ECAM, VHF1, ATC1, RMP1, ILS1, VOR1, GPS1 .. all would still function. In
26 tymnbalewne : I think he'd take Columbia Airlines' "Exec One" Lear jet.
27 longhauler : This is 100% correct. But, as I also include this with my pre-flight briefing, there are things the Flight Attendants MUST do before initiating an ev
28 sccutler : Well, apparently, they did not function; they referenced "complete instrument failure," declined the ILS and advised that they needed a PAR approach.
29 mcdu : Don't believe they had the displays. Similar failure it sounds like to the UA EWR incident a couple of years ago. Lost basically all screens from wha
30 IAHFLYR : Thanks for posting that link, a great listen. Sounded like they were at 600' on a 5 mile final.
31 longhauler : Yes, it sounds like the BA A319 incedent a few years back. With about 10 years on A320 series aircraft, I always wondered what would happen if an ele
32 Post contains links 71Zulu : Greeat audio clip. Good job by everyone. They wanted 10 (the longest) but that crosswind would have been tough. Right now about 200 at 20 knots gusti
33 Post contains images rduddji : Nice work by the crew and ATC. Glad everyone is ok. I can't believe the major news outlets in the US aren't covering this yet. I guess potential holes
34 Post contains images Heavierthanair : G´day Some egos must have been badly hurt Cheers Peter
35 Magcheck : I'm baffled by the nosewheel steering thing-- so what happens when you land long and heavy (although the former apparently didn't happen here) on a 7,
36 Post contains links MSYtristar : Check out this link for some more pictures... http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2...nited_airlines_flight_497_mak.html
37 9LFlyGuy : United hasn't had good luck with their Airbus lately... Recalls the Newark incident... Glad everyone is okay though. What's up with all the UA airbus
38 rfields5421 : I could not make it out from the ATC tape. Why was the 10,000 ft Rwy 10 blocked and unavailable - forcing the crew to land on the 7,000 ft Rwy 19?
39 timf : It sounded like they were doing maintenance work on 10/28. There were trucks and cones on the runway at the time. They cleared them off quickly enough
40 Alasizon : My guess originally as to why 10 wasn't available is crosswind components. Though, from what I can gather, it sounds like there may have also been ve
41 71Zulu : The ILS for 10/28 is now out of service, not sure if this has anything to do with the incident. The ATIS was saying arrivals expect GPS Runway 10, no
42 Post contains images Alasizon : Not to nitpick but it would be the left side. It was the right side when landing on 10
43 rduddji : I read somewhere that 10/28 had construction going on.
44 charlienorth : Over a year ago isn't exactly recently...look at all fleets all airlines and before making those kind of statements.
45 zeke : They requested the PAR, does not mean that everything else was unavailable, with smoke in the cockpit they may have just had difficulty seeing the in
46 jsposaune : Definite RAT deployment in the first picture in the NO newspaper link...right side.
47 msypi7185 : Correct just short of the R/W 10/28 threshold Both right MLG tires blew and by looking at my pics I just finished cleaning up, the right MLG outside
48 rcair1 : Consider this report: "A number of passengers needed medical attention due to smoke inhalation." This indicates a significant level of smoke in the c
49 jamake1 : United Airlines safety training is unique in that flight attendants are allowed the ability to initiate an aircraft evacuation, which is a policy tha
50 longhauler : You will get no argument from me. And there certainly reasons for a F/A initiated evacuation. The most likely would be suspected incapacitation of th
51 zeke : They must have added some photos, there were only 12 there when I looked, now over 20.
52 71Zulu : I meant passengers landing on other planes. Since 28 is in use, they would almost fly right over it and the UA plane would be on their right. Yeah, i
53 ata757300 : Did anyone notice how the Flight Attendant were standing away from the passengers just sort of smiling and talking with each other? Seems pretty stran
54 71Zulu : They must have moved the plane. ATIS now says nothing about the plane and 19 is open again.
55 Maverick623 : The Ops vehicle said he needed 2 minutes, and the plane was within 10 miles on the final. Not enough time.
56 flflyguy : It is not unique. At AA flight attendants have the ability to make the evacuation decision as well. Of course, we would normally try to communicate w
57 sccutler : My comment was based upon my interpretation of the statement, "complete instrument failure" by one of the pilots on the radio. Since I was not there,
58 WNCrew : With respect to whatever the policies may be at your carrier and what you may think is a good idea.... we don't all work for your airline and thus we
59 MrSkyGuy : Besides the Thales ISFD (which sounds to me to be the principle piece of safety equipment used after the electrical failure to fly the aircraft), what
60 longhauler : I am pretty sure the policies at my airline are probably the same as yours. And, not for a second did I state the comparative safety of either airlin
61 Post contains links Dalb777 : http://www.wwltv.com/video?id=119216414&sec=554827[Edited 2011-04-04 20:35:04]
62 B727LVR : I strongly disagree with this as a flight attendant. If I see a situation that requires getting people I am going to act. And it goes with outsaying
63 uaord2000 : Apparently, there was a loss of all cabin interphones. One of the pilots opened the door and told the purser of the smoke and that they were returning
64 TheCommodore : Wow, and there is no back up PA system ? Imagine, both pilots had their hands full dealing with things on the flight deck and couldn't leave, and nei
65 WNCrew : That's part of why we carry megaphones in the cabin at each FA station.
66 TheCommodore : So dose the flight deck have megaphones too or are you saying only FA in the main cabin have them ? If not, how do they communicate with the FA's thr
67 WNCrew : To my knowledge the FD doesn't have a megaphone. There are various ways that the FD could communicate with the FA's without operable interphones.
68 Maverick623 : Well, in this case they opened the door and told the A-F/A what was gonna happen. Just look at US1549. Both pilots were so incredibly busy that all t
69 71Zulu : Thanks. I saw it this morning. It's was over on the west cargo ramp still with the flaps down and spoilers up.
70 RoseFlyer : There are only so many systems that have backups that run off standby power. Only really critical items are available such as attitude/airspeed, esse
71 db373 : Just out of curiosity. Since an evac did occur why were the over-wing exits not utilized? In the pictures it appears the over-wing exits are still in
72 quiet1 : Glad to see you soften your stance from: to My hunch is that you are basing your comments on your own airline's policies and procedures. UA has decide
73 longhauler : If you look closer, you will see the same stance, same concerns. However, as I stated above, I wont discuss this in this message string any further a
74 TheCommodore : Well I would have thought that being able to communicate with the FA's down the back, was also critical, especially once the plane was making an emer
75 longhauler : When the aircraft is placed in the "ELEC EMER CONFIG" as a result of the Smoke checklist, the Cabin Inter-phone, (front to back, and both to flight d
76 Post contains images TheCommodore : Thanks for the explanation.
77 B727LVR : During normal operations the PA or cabin Interphone system can be inoperative provided other criteria is met. But with a power failure, its a little
78 nomadd22 : Is there any control by differential braking on the main gear?
79 RoseFlyer : Yes there is differential braking control which can be used to steer the plane at slower speeds. However looking at the photos shows that some tires
80 zeke : Initial interview with the pilots and cabin crew have no indication or smell of smoke in the cabin at all. The NTSB preliminary examination has not re
81 Dalb777 : Any of my fellow MSY-ers have a status update on this aircraft? Still parked on the west cargo ramp? And any idea on what it takes to get this plane b
82 71Zulu : Still parked over on the west ramp, all the the doors open and they are working on it.
83 Maverick623 : Check all the wiring, the fans, the ducts, replace a few computers if necessary and run a test on the ground.
84 B727LVR : How about a gear swing or nose gear replacement?
85 Post contains images 71Zulu : Didn't see anybody working outside. Plane was on it's wheels, not raised up. The nose did get buried though. Gonna go check it again tomorrow.
86 Post contains links and images 71Zulu : Still at MSY. Had a tug and other stuff near the front so might be working on it. [Edited 2011-04-09 10:34:24]
87 Post contains links 71Zulu : Still at MSY although it has been moved I think to the end of concourse D. http://avherald.com/h?article=43a6bc08&opt=0
88 hamad : Take this from a flight attendant: Evacuation can be ordered by the flight deck, unless it was a catastrophic situation, as in fuselage broke, or the
89 InnocuousFox : And please remember to bring your cigar.
90 Post contains links 71Zulu : Plane is gone, must have flown out the week of the 11th. Not sure where it is, Flightaware doesn't show. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N409UA
91 tozairport : Lake City, FL LCQ. Been there since the 13th getting repaired (and maybe paint?)
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