travelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3312 posts, RR: 0 Posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10572 times:
Alaska Airline settles with LAWA (Los Angeles World Airports). Will renovate Terminal 6 at LAX at a cost of $271M.
travelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3312 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10501 times:
Based upon what I read, minimal funds will come from AS itself:
"The $271-million total project cost will be funded using $18.6 million in Alaska Airlines invested capital for the airline’s proprietary improvements (club room, specialty lighting, finishes or other architectural elements, etc.); $156.5 million in LAWA commercial paper/long-term debt; and $95.9 million combined from LAWA cash, Passenger Facility Charges, and TSA reimbursements. The latter two sums cover improvements that are useable by any airline operating in Terminal 6. NO funds from Los Angeles City’s general fund will be used."
clickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9444 posts, RR: 72 Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10298 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 1): Not sure of the life span for a terminal reno
If you've been to T3 (current Alaska terminal), it looks like it was last renovated in 1917, so they should have a few years to get that money back.
laca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3749 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9787 times:
How many gates will AS have when they move over to T6? Will the DH8s be parked @ T6 or remotely?
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22053 posts, RR: 51 Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9464 times:
Amazing it took almost 9-months to work out the details from last summers LAWA approval which itself had been ongoing since 2009. LAX Approves Alaska Air Terminal Move (by LAXintl Aug 9 2010 in Civil Aviation)
Much of the hangup however had to do with Alaska agreeing to exit ongoing litigation it had with LAWA over rental tariff dating back to 2007.
Quoting travelin man (Reply 2): Based upon what I read, minimal funds will come from AS itself:
All said and done, Alaska could cover up to $83.8mil of the project including being on the hook for portion of the bonds LAWA will float and annual rentals much dependent on if LAWA opts to purchase back the "Terminal 6 Airline Renovations" from AS or not at a future date or not.
Also important to note AS will take over the Maintenance and Operation responsibility for bulk of the terminal from LAWA, so that will undoubtedly cost additional monies - estimated at $4.2mil annually.
Quoting clickhappy (Reply 4): If you've been to T3 (current Alaska terminal), it looks like it was last renovated in 1917,
In reality the facility has gotten lots of work done in recent years, including by Alaska with a new lobby, updated gate areas, all the Virgin America lobby and gate work, plus LAWA repaints, new escalators, elevators, tiles etc..
Quoting laca773 (Reply 8): How many gates will AS have when they move over to T6? Will the DH8s be parked @ T6 or remotely?
Preferential rights to 6 gates for 10-year term from LAWA plus preferential scheduling rights on two Delta gates plus access on a sublease basis to third Delta gate if they so desire.
For Horizon remember its operations and routes are fading fast at LAX. Who knows what the future will hold for the Q400 by the time terminal is all done.
QANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1804 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9272 times:
Hmmmm... So T3 will have an opening in 2012? That's the same time WN will get its -800s and should be aquiring AirTran planes. Perhaps time for US to move out of T1???
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
slcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2455 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9186 times:
I think the major driver of moving was getting into a nicer space aka away from T3. Wasn't T6 also prefered by AS and AA because it is much easier to run the shuttle buses over to T4 and AA now from T6. That was what i had heard but i dont know LAX too well. It does seem like T4 is alot closer to T6 than T3. AS and AA connect quite a few passengers at LAX. I could see this as being a big help in addition to a much nicer space. Can one walk between T5 and T6? Does AS and DL run a shuttle bus between their terminals currently? I dont think that many passengers transit between those DL/AS compared to AS and AA do they?
HPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3662 posts, RR: 8 Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9073 times:
Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 11): Hmmmm... So T3 will have an opening in 2012? That's the same time WN will get its -800s and should be aquiring AirTran planes. Perhaps time for US to move out of T1???
Why would US want to move into the dump of T3? Sounds like a personal problem for WN to me. Good luck with split operations.
flyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1015 posts, RR: 6 Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8979 times:
Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 12): Does AS and DL run a shuttle bus between their terminals currently?
Yes
Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 12): I dont think that many passengers transit between those DL/AS compared to AS and AA do they?
Are you serious? DL gets a ton of feed from AS in LAX. DL actually has a much more indepth codeshare agreement with AS than AA does as of about a year or two ago.
The777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6083 posts, RR: 56 Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8929 times:
Nice to know that they have settled since renovations have started about three months ago already....
The main reason for AS move to T6 is that they can use the FIS facility and therefore shorten connecting times for their passengers. If they did not need that, they could have stayed in T3 and just renovated that. Getting closer to DL AND AA does not hurt either.
AS has about 15 or so International arrivals every day from various points in Mexico.
The777Man
[Edited 2011-04-05 02:16:37]
Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....GA, T5, CI and LX 777s
SRT75 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 252 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8778 times:
From the renderings, looks like AS will get gates in the central oval of T6 (where CO operations are/were). Will UA still have the end of T6 (up the stairs) for its operations?
Haven't been to LAX in a while. Isn't there a tunnel? Has it been re-opened?
Odd fact: I think T3 and T6 are the only two terminals at LAX with outdoor areas post-security (hence smoking areas). Wonder if these dinosours from a bygone era will be removed with the renovation?
Braniff727Ultra From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 109 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8577 times:
So does this mean that Virgin America will be getting T3 all to themselves? If so, has there been any news about increased flights into & out of LAX? I ask because with their new digs in T2 at SFO that would seem like a natural for them to grow market share between these two tourist hubs.
Quoting The777Man (Reply 15): Getting closer to DL AND AA does not hurt either.
For those ostriches living in lala land, EVENTUALLY a 'open" battle between AA and DL over AS will transpire. For now, it's a battle behind the curtain. And for all those who say it won't happen, right. Hate to bring it to you, AS won't even have a say in it, when that time comes. Shareholders do. They want to see a return on AS's hard work.
Stop being sentimental about AS. It's just business.
They are a very attractive carrier anyone would, in its current form, pay a premium for.
Right now, 2011, is not the right time however. The LAX move will come in handy though, within the next 10 years, for either AA or DL.
Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7348 posts, RR: 7 Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8249 times:
With Alaska out of terminal 2, who does that leave operating out of terminal 2 ? ANZ, Air France, KLM and Virgin Atlantic ?
seabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 4277 posts, RR: 4 Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8026 times:
Quoting peanuts (Reply 19): Would you consider AS a "rathole"?
It would be throwing cash down a rathole for either DL or AA to buy AS, because the transaction would immediately destroy a good chunk of AS's value.
AS has two advantages over both legacies: 1) a lower cost structure, and 2) the very ability to work with multiple legacies and their alliances to generate revenue. Both of these advantages would be destroyed by a merger.
Quoting peanuts (Reply 19): Shareholders do. They want to see a return on AS's hard work.
Stop being sentimental about AS. It's just business.
And an independent AS is worth more to shareholders than one merged with DL or AA. That's why the shareholders won't let it happen unless one of those legacies seriously overpays... that is:
Caspian27 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 359 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7966 times:
WA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2042 posts, RR: 13 Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7884 times:
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 13): Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 11):
Hmmmm... So T3 will have an opening in 2012? That's the same time WN will get its -800s and should be aquiring AirTran planes. Perhaps time for US to move out of T1???
Why would US want to move into the dump of T3? Sounds like a personal problem for WN to me. Good luck with split operations.
The last thing US wants to do is to move out of T1 so WN will get more gates there. None of the other airlines at LAX want to see more WN expansion!
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22053 posts, RR: 51 Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7349 times:
Really comes down to money. If US were to be moved, they need to be bought out and compensated especially since they sunk new money into facilities with renovations since the US/HP merger.
So Unless SWA decides now that its worth footing the bill to have US move it which they did not in the past when opportunities for a move existed. US wont move and take a financial loss
But anyhow, the larger picture is also why hand SWA carte-blanche to add new service which will likely compete against yourself. SWA today is boxed in nicely with 110 or so daily flights.
Quoting flyibaby (Reply 9): DL gets a ton of feed from AS in LAX. DL actually has a much more indepth codeshare agreement with AS than AA does as of about a year or two ago.
I'm pretty sure AA-AS generates more interline passengers than AA-DL does, or atleast was the case last year per LAWA survey I saw.
Quoting The777Man (Reply 10): The main reason for AS move to T6 is that they can use the FIS facility and therefore shorten connecting times for their passengers. If they did not need that, they could have stayed in T3 and just renovated that.
. Having FIS access has been long held AS aspiration. Now it will have access to the United T6-7 one.
The bigger question of staffing hours remains, as CBP is still quite short staffed in the LA Port District, so tha ability to staff the FIS continually all day long will be a question.
Quoting SRT75 (Reply 11): From the renderings, looks like AS will get gates in the central oval of T6 (where CO operations are/were). Will UA still have the end of T6 (up the stairs) for its operations?
Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 18): What is going to happen to the UA/CO gates?
Nothing happens to United. Back in January UA reaffirmed its CO gate leaseholds signing up for a new 7-year lease.
Part of the merger the only change is UA will be vacating the CO T-6 ticket counters, bagroom and various operations and support offices in the terminal.
Quoting Braniff727Ultra (Reply 12): So does this mean that Virgin America will be getting T3 all to themselves?
No. VX has about 1/2 of T-3 and still room for more flights. Other half will be used by likes of Spirit, JetBlue, Frontier etc.. JetBlue who is already in T-3 will have access to 2 dedicated gates, and joint-use of up to 4 more. I see B6 as the big potential growth carrier in the terminal.
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 15): With Alaska out of terminal 2, who does that leave operating out of terminal 2 ? ANZ, Air France, KLM and Virgin Atlantic ?
AS is coming from T-3
[Edited 2011-04-05 09:24:39]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
AADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1835 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7141 times:
The777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6083 posts, RR: 56 Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4859 times:
Quoting SRT75 (Reply 11): Odd fact: I think T3 and T6 are the only two terminals at LAX with outdoor areas post-security (hence smoking areas). Wonder if these dinosours from a bygone era will be removed with the renovation?
Not sure about T3 but the ourdoor area in T6 has been closed for at least two years. The area is still there but there is a door and it's always locked.
The777Man
Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....GA, T5, CI and LX 777s
bjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 2776 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4817 times:
How many gates are in T3?
"An idea has to be incredibly absurd to have any reasonable chance of succeeding" --A. Einstein
25 laca773: T2 has become a major terminal for Sky Team: Air France KLM Aero Mexico Alitalia Star Alliance: Air Canada Taca Avianca (now seasonal only) Air China
27 SurfandSnow: I can't wait to see what T6 will be like when it's all said and done. Even as it stands today T6 is wayyy better than the abominable T3, though it's n
28 LAXintl: ....also on T-2... Air NZ Volaris Sun Country Its one of the most diverse terminals at the airport.
29 flyingcat: VX already has added a ftfth gate in March so they are way ahead of B6.
30 anstar: Would be great to see VX expand and have VS and NZ move over to T3. Given VS/NZ/VA have a relationship it would be a good fit. Be nice to see a clubh
31 LAXintl: Its a bit dependent on the size of aircraft one parks, but in theory up to 12 jetways plus double park a couple props. T-3 for sure will be VX, VA, B
32 mariner: Is Frontier moving again? Or should I say - moving back. LOL. mariner
33 LAXintl: Yeah since they don't have a leasehold they are becoming orphans again. So either back to T-3 or maybe T-2.
34 mariner: The only puzzle I have is that Frontier (along with Airtran and ATA) was a party with Alaska to the original lawsuit. Or is this a different lawsuit
35 NorthstarBoy: One thing confuses me, if AS controls 30 and 31A/B/C that only leaves eight gates for VX/B6/F9 and all the others to fight over. how can VX claim 6 an
36 jetjack74: it's 2 biggest advantages are, 1)that it has a huge chunk of the flying up and down the west coast(2nd to Southwest, I believe)with 2 of the 3 larges
37 LAXintl: The lawsuit was over the new tariff methodology the airport started to use for charges on rentals and proration of operating expenses. One by one, ai
38 mariner: Not to flog a dying horse, but it is my understanding that this Alaska deal is settlement of that suit: http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_17770478 "Th
39 LAXintl: Suit still exist, just parties are leaving one by one. LAWA has been rather clever over the years. Undoubtedly airlines want things from the airport,
40 Airport: AS is in fact different. The only ostriches with their heads in the sand are those who think that AS is just like the financially-crippled, Chapter-1
41 Airport: This is correct. I'm typing from my phone at the moment, so I can't pull up the documents and quotes but AA-AS at least a year ago generated more pas
42 SuperDash: I'm actually surprised Alaska is still going to spend the big bucks. Hopefully Delta and United will send them regular Christmas cards thanking them f
43 ckfred: Back when AA was running the old QQ operation out of T3, I had the misfortune of connecting at LAX, having to change from T3 to T4. After waiting 10
44 SurfandSnow: Well, if they already manage to use 5, I'm sure they'll need more than 6 in a mere year or two. Tons of planes on order, and they certainly aren't al
45 mariner: Let's hope they keep up that approach with the remaining airline(s) in the suit. mariner
46 laca773: Thanks for helping me out there. I can't believe I forgot NZ! What gates does VA utilize? T-2 seems to be near maximum capacity now. ! Thanks, Surfan
47 HPRamper: So funny all the talk about how AS is on the way out. Clearly anyone with this opinion has never spent time in a city that is extremely loyal to the a
48 BoeingGuy: Yeah, I was hearing from industry people in 1998 that AS will soon be bought out by AA (nothing like making the same mistake a third time.....). Funn
49 HPRamper: Correct, if DL or AA somehow ends up getting ahold of AS, nobody will have more to gain than WN. UA would also stand to benefit a bit.
50 jetBlueE90: yes. T5/6/7/8 an be walked airside. T4/5 could if they want to open it If DL/AA offer say 105% or so for AS the share holders will jump. Most of the
51 commavia: Maybe, maybe not. If Alaska's management is able to demonstrate a viable business plan that will generate superior returns for stakeholders over a ti
52 seabosdca: In my opinion, that would be overpayment, because I think AS's network will be weaker without either codeshare. I think DL and AA agree and that is w
53 BoeingGuy: Agreed. Yeah, just like WN was the biggest winner when US bought PSA and then destroyed them. To this day that still angers me. Not many people reali
54 jetBlueE90: The marketplace is changing. eh, I'm going to bet when it happens AA or DL wont be pulling a hostel take over. The core network of AS, SEA and LAX wo
55 peanuts: I understand this point very well. It may also be one (amongst others) of the very reasons for the AA and DL LAX build up. Drum up some organic growt
56 LAXintl: I don't know, but I suggest we wait and see. I don't believe B6 would be lining up real estate if they did not have a plan. I suspect more and more s
57 BoeingGuy: Yeah, that's quite possibly exactly what would happen. AS is generous with FF award availability (as is AA, surprisingly). I've sure never seen any F
58 jedward: The airside tunnel between T6 and T5 is open but the tunnel from T5 to T4 is still closed. As such connections to DL out of T5 are substantially easi
59 peanuts: If people enjoy nonstop long haul from SEA, than DL is as local as can be... If such a scenario were to happen, I think ERA Alaska will be at the rig
60 joeljack: This is stupid. UA/CO uses all of T7 and T8 and now part of T6(again) with Continental being added. Move AC and US over the T6 and then Star will have
61 BoeingGuy: Yeah, but last time I checked ATL is not local. I doubt that DL would be sponsoring local sports teams and stadiums, for example, like AS does.
62 LDVAviation: Stupid? Because it is not the solution that most benefits the Star Alliance? The move of AS from T3 to T6 should perhaps tell you that LAWA's agenda
63 ikramerica: Not gonna happen. Anyway, I think US won't be in Star forever. I see them moving to OneWorld. AC transfers to UA at LAX aren't going to be that commo
64 Surfandsnow: True, but UA is no longer "squatting" on gates. Now that the old UAX box went to Eagle and UAX has to use T7/T8, the airline is pretty effectively ut
65 n7371f: Actually maybe you should be interested because the general thinking is by becoming a "signatory" airline, your rental costs at the airport fall over
66 mariner: Certainly, i am interested in Frontier's lease situation at LAX - but I already know what that presently is. What I don't know is what the results of
67 Braniff727Ultra: LAXintl; Thanks for the update on VX status @ LAX. You do a great job of keeping all informed on the goings on at my favorite airport. (LAX is my Disn
68 msp747: This thread has turned into quite the debate on the future of AS. Personally, I think the airline will remain independent for a long time. AA currentl
69 slcdeltarumd11: You make it sound like its so easy but in reality alot of people have kids in tow or have to carry their luggage nowdays
70 EA CO AS: What you guys either fail to understand or simply don't want to understand is that AS is valuable not just due to its own network, but the value of t
71 jetBlueE90: No it doesn't. It is just because it is "your" airline. Heck people on here are still crying over the DL/NW merger. They out number you. Problem is I
72 BoeingGuy: No they didn't. Your facts are wrong. NW, DL and CO were all in Skyteam. DL code shared with CO just as much as NW. DL buying NW had no effect on the
73 Airport: Yes, a network full of junk-yield north-south West Coast routes. I'm sure DL and AA are really drooling over that. With the cost structure that AS ha
74 BoeingGuy: AA has had the network twice - not once but twice. And each time they've dumped all their ex-Air Cal, and ex-QQ routes. So AA didn't want SEA-SNA; SJ
75 EA CO AS: Apparently you don't understand, because you obviously fail to grasp how much of AS's revenue comes from these codeshares. And I'd argue that the rev
76 jetBlueE90: I don't care if 99.9999999% comes from codeshares. The SEA hub is worth alot and its value is growing as Asia Grows. Plus DL or AA would love to own
77 flyingcat: Wow please don't tell me you are in finance.... Ignoring data like this along with ignoring the CASM increase that will occur with a merger is idioti
78 srbmod: At this point, the thread has veered well away from the original topic, and as a result, this thread is now locked. If you wanted to discuss the poten
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. Having FIS access has been long held AS aspiration. Now it will have access to the United T6-7 one.
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