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787's In SFO  
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19416 posts, RR: 58
Posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14256 times:

So when(if) the 787 finally does start revenue service, who will fly it to SFO?

I was predicting that maybe BA switch to one A380 and one 787, but with the way that A380's are flocking to SFO, I'm not sure if it'll be an A380 and a 77W or 2xA380.

So obviously UA/CO will use some (although to where I can't say).

Maybe LAN to SCL? QF to SYD/MEL? Any other ideas?

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30623 posts, RR: 84
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14209 times:
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NH and JL from maybe NGO?

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9510 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14148 times:

First I would think CO/UA since it is one of their hubs.

I wouldn't be shocked if NZ put a 787 on the SFO route during the quieter periods of the year.

787 might open SFO up for some routes by ANA other than NRT.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14148 times:

First United 787 crew base will be Houston, so I don't see them doing SFO flying for atleast maybe the first year or two until the fleet size grows and additional bases are opened.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinelindy field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14097 times:
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Qantas and Air Berlin seem like good contenders, along with some of the Indian or Chinese carriers who have 787s on order.

User currently onlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14069 times:

Quoting lindy field (Reply 4):
Qantas

Considering QF will be dropping this route next month, I don't think we will see QF return with a 787.



John@SFO
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30623 posts, RR: 84
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14026 times:
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Quoting legacyins (Reply 5):
Considering QF will be dropping this route next month, I don't think we will see QF return with a 787.

Filling a 787-8 profitably year-around is likely easier for QF than doing so with a 747-400.  


User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2070 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13970 times:

Isn't United doing SFO - Hochiminh on a 747 with one stop? That would be a perfect route for the 787 non stop (if it can be done). If UAL will not be doing it, I bet Vietnam Airline will attempt it.

bikerthai



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9510 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13840 times:

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 7):
Isn't United doing SFO - Hochiminh on a 747 with one stop? That would be a perfect route for the 787 non stop (if it can be done). If UAL will not be doing it, I bet Vietnam Airline will attempt it.

I think the original route authority required a HKG stopover. Not sure if the bilateral changed.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13816 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
Filling a 787-8 profitably year-around is likely easier for QF than doing so with a 747-400.

True, but SFO still may not make sense for the same reasons the SFO flight was shifted to DFW. Adding seats back to SFO would also poach some passengers from LAX and a few from DFW, driving yields down on all flights, so even a 787 would be no slam-dunk.


User currently onlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 13567 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
Filling a 787-8 profitably year-around is likely easier for QF than doing so with a 747-400.

true, but this is the second time they are pulling out and I don't think they will be back with any type of aircraft.



John@SFO
User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 750 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 13404 times:

I would like to see UA fly their 787s from SFO to India (DEL?) and to some secondary Chinese markets. KL flies nonstop from AMS to CTU, XMN, and HGH, and LH flies nonstop from FRA to CAN and NKG. It would be cool to see nonstops to some of those cities from the US, probably 2x or 3x weekly to each.


SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently onlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 13404 times:
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Quoting lindy field (Reply 4):
Qantas and Air Berlin seem like good contenders,

Change "Qantas" to "Jetstar" and I think that there is a high probability.



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User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2070 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 13384 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 8):

I think the original route authority required a HKG stopover.

Interesting . . . I thought that the stop was for fuel.

Found this thread to shed more light on the subject.

Direct Flights To Vietnam From USA (by Jeffrey1970 Dec 6 2003 in Civil Aviation)

"U.S., Vietnam deal allows direct flights
WASHINGTON (AFP) — The United States and Vietnam signed a landmark agreement Thursday allowing direct passenger and cargo flights between the two former military foes. . .

In a major concession to Hanoi, U.S. airlines will not be able to pick up passengers from a handful of predominantly Asian hubs en route to Vietnam.

The Vietnamese side was fearful that allowing U.S. carriers unhindered access to Vietnam via its key markets of Japan, Taiwan, France and Hong Kong would badly undercut national flag carrier Vietnam Airlines. "


bikerthai



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlinepsa1011 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12940 times:
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Although a long shot, how would a UA/CO SFO-GRU work?

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19416 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12855 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
NH and JL from maybe NGO?

A 763 with winglets could probably make it these days. Do you think the 787 would make that much better a business case?

[Edited 2011-04-11 15:58:01]

User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30623 posts, RR: 84
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12540 times:
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Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
A 763 with winglets could probably make it these days. Do you think the 787 would make that much better a business case?


*shrug*

NH themselves evidently once said that SEA-NGO could be a 787 service for them, so at one time it seemed to have a possible business case within the airline.


User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12503 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
First United 787 crew base will be Houston, so I don't see them doing SFO flying for atleast maybe the first year or two until the fleet size grows and additional bases are opened.

I think IAH-SFO-IAH will be one of the first UA 787 routes. My reasoning is that the route is short enough for crews to become more familiar with the 787 plus they can do a round trip in one day with time to spare. Also SFO is a major MX base so if the 787 goes tech there will be someone there who can work on it right away. Just my guess though.


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8027 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12503 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 16):
NH themselves evidently once said that SEA-NGO could be a 787 service for them, so at one time it seemed to have a possible business case within the airline.

I would say SEA-NGO and LAX-NGO could be strong contenders for 787 service. Not so sure about SFO as there is not a tremendous amount of IT activity in the NGO area. SEA is a great connection to NGO because of the interplay between Boeing and virtually every large Japanese aerospace company having their main ops in the NGO area - Kawasaki, Mitsubishi, ShinMaywa, Toray, and most of the Japanese 787 supply chain are there. LAX is also strong due to the large presence of Toyota group companies like DENSO, Toyota Industries Corp., Toyota Tsusho, NGK etc. Most of the legal and administrative offices of group companies that have extensive US operations, such as Aisin, are also located in the LA area.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19416 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9812 times:

Quoting bohica (Reply 17):

I think IAH-SFO-IAH will be one of the first UA 787 routes. My reasoning is that the route is short enough for crews to become more familiar with the 787 plus they can do a round trip in one day with time to spare.

I am inclined to agree. It's the best way to give the most crew the most hours aboard that flight. If they do it, I will joyride it. In F or J if I can!  
Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 18):

I would say SEA-NGO and LAX-NGO could be strong contenders for 787 service. Not so sure about SFO as there is not a tremendous amount of IT activity in the NGO area. SEA is a great connection to NGO because of the interplay between Boeing and virtually every large Japanese aerospace company having their main ops in the NGO area - Kawasaki, Mitsubishi, ShinMaywa, Toray, and most of the Japanese 787 supply chain are there.

Yes, but you're thinking O&D only. SFO is also a good jumping-off point for Japanese travelers who need to go elsewhere in the US.

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 14):
Although a long shot, how would a UA/CO SFO-GRU work?

I doubt it. I think SCL would make a more likely market for LA.


User currently offlineboilerla From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 351 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9290 times:

Quoting FSDan (Reply 11):
I would like to see UA fly their 787s from SFO to India (DEL?) and to some secondary Chinese markets. KL flies nonstop from AMS to CTU, XMN, and HGH, and LH flies nonstop from FRA to CAN and NKG. It would be cool to see nonstops to some of those cities from the US, probably 2x or 3x weekly to each.

++

Our company has offices in LA, and has corporate HQ in SFO, and we schedule a lot of travel to India every year. This usually means EK out of LAX. I'd love to see a UA flight from SFO to DEL for the "high tech connection". If not out of SFO, then IAH makes sense, as ORD already has service on AA.


User currently offlinecentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7778 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
SFO is also a good jumping-off point for Japanese travelers who need to go elsewhere in the US.

UA's SFO-NGO was good and worked not only on O&D but connecting. The flight number started in ORD and ended in NGO. The 787 is a right sized aircraft for NGO. (The 762 is also a right sized aircraft for the route.)

I think that SFO will see some 787s due to the UA/CO merger but it will also get some of the first North American operated A350s.

As for NH's 787 use, one of the first possible routes is NRT-DEN.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8027 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7778 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
SFO is also a good jumping-off point for Japanese travelers who need to go elsewhere in the US.

I thought about that but have discounted it. Even prior to 3/11, with the economic malaise since 2008 Japanese travel to the US has considerably declined. Japanese students are increasingly reluctant to study in the US due to perceptions about safety and very real concerns about cost compared to Australia and New Zealand, which have much easier student visas to obtain in any case. The lack of a working holiday visa hampers the US considerably in this regard. Leisure travelers from Japan are much more interested in exploring SE Asia than the US these days, though there will always be the status-conscious contingent who want to shop in NYC, Roma, or Paris.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6098 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4707 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):

There really is no reason for BA to fly both a A380 and 787 to SFO. The luxury you have flying the same type is that your flight deck crew is common type. I personally don't see the BA 747 going anytime soon and when it does I'd suspect it will be with 77W. The 787 doesn't really fit on the route segment and BA can utilize it on better routes.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):

Restarting SFO-NGO with a 787 would seem fitting. The route was not a terrible route when it operated by UA. NH flying NGO-SEA/SFO/LAX possibly!

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 12):

Funny you mention JetStar. I was chatting with a friend the other day and we thought that JetStar could start OZ-SFO service and QF would be off the hook looking silly for restarting SFO service a 3rd time.

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 14):

SFO-GRU doesn't make any sense really. The demand from the Bay Area doesn't really warrant the service. Also, UA would fly just about right over it's S. American hub in IAH. SFO will probably continue to be the Pacific hub leaving south of the border to IAH.

Route I believe;

SFO-CAN UA (finally starts)
SFO-NGO NH
SFO-TPE UA
SFO-SGN UA (maybe a SFO-HAN-SGN r/t)
SFO- to possible new Chinese destinations.

With the CO style mangers taking over at UAL, I hope to see SFO on the left slowly reflect somewhat EWR on the right.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
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