MD 11 From Germany, joined Sep 1999, 195 posts, RR: 1 Posted (14 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1777 times:
perhaps you can help me,
I know, that CP-Air (with their very good red-silver-paint-scheme) were bought or merged with another canadian carrier in the mid-80`s to form Canadian Airlines.
But, was it a merger or were they simply bought by this carrier, and what was the reason? Were they in financial troubles?
And what was the name of that carrier? (Canada west or something like that?)
And did they change their paint scheme befor or after this merger/buy, because I saw some CP-Air planes with similar colours than Canadian Airlines, but not exact the same.
So, is it right to say, Canadian Airlines is CPAir?
Thanks for your help.
CV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1124 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (14 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1660 times:
MD 11 is right, CP Air did adopt a red& blue color scheme right around 1987, before the merger which created Canadian Airlines. This scheme involved a blue belly and tail, some red striping on the fuselage with Canadian Pacific written out in full: one side English, the other in French (Canadien Pacifique), and a tail design consisting of the CP Air triangle surrounded by silver stripes -- very classy. It formed the foundation for the first Canadian scheme but something was lost in the translation.
It was only applied to a few aircraft: at least one or two DC-10s and some 737s as I recall. Perhaps the forum has a pic somewhere .....?
Airman99o From Canada, joined Aug 1999, 975 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (14 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1647 times:
CPAir was bought out by PWA, Pacific Western Airlines. Then EPA, Eastern Provincial Airways. This airline formed the first base of Canadian Airlines international. If I remember correctly Wardair was bought out in the earily nineties or the late eighties.
CPAir also had orange not red in it's colours. I liked the look of this airline and remember seeing some of them when Canadian was first formed.
I think that the reason why CPAir was merged with all these airlines was that they wanted to have more of a competition with AirCanada in the domestic market so PWA bought out the international market ( CPAir ) and PWA had a big western market in Canada and then EPA had the eastern market covered. Another Reason to this buy out was that CPAir and Pwa were starting to lose money and needed less competition.
AC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (14 years 9 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1646 times:
The question of what happened to the airlines which formed Canadian Airlines has been asked a few times, but has been given somewhat of an incomplete response. So, I'll describe a bit about the airlines that formed Canadian Airlines, and a bit about the merger sequence that brought it together. This info is what I remember from various books, and other resources on the subject, or about the predecessor airlines, and while it may not be 100% correct, as I may misremember some dates and sequences, but it is a reasonable approximation for your understanding. First about the airlines:
Canadian Pacific Airlines: also known as CPAir. Remembered for its 1967-1986 orange livery, of which I have a model right beside me. Yes, in 1986 it did change to something similar to the Canadian Airlines livery that is now being changed. CPAir was formed in 1942 by a buyout and merger of several small, mostly bankrupt bush airlines, and was built into an international carrier. It was owned by Canadian Pacific Limited, one of the largest companies in Canada, and the parent company of the Canadian Pacific Railway. CPAir was seen as a private industry competitor to Air Canada (operated as a subsidiary of CN Rail until 1977), but Canadian Pacific did enjoy a certain amount of its own protection, as CP was a major company with good political connections. CP operated a variety of aircraft over time (including 727, 737-300, 747, DC-8), but by the time of the merger it settled on standardized 737-200 and DC-10-30 aircraft. Although Canadian Pacific loved the idea of owning an airline, they could earn more money by investing in a dozen railway locomotives instead of a DC-10. It was headquartered in Vancouver.
Pacific Western Airlines: known as PWA. Formed in about 1953 in British Columbia, it operated regional routes, flew cargo, and operated in the arctic for many years. It was designated during the regulated era as the regional airline for western Canada in the area west of Calgary. It was owned by the Government on Alberta for a few years, and its head office was moved to Calgary, where it remained. Before the merger PWA had a fleet of 24 737-200's and 2 767-200's. As a note, these aircraft were owned by PWA, and PWA used a sale-leaseback agreement to finance the merger. They had a blue belly on an otherwise white aircraft, with a < sort of logo on the tail in red. I still remember seeing their 737's in Calgary as a kid.
Eastern Provincial Airlines. EPA operated in Eastern Canada. I can't tell you much about them other than they flew some 737's.
Nordair. I believe they were based in Hamilton. They flew 737's in passenger and combi versions, and were the designated regional carrier for Ontario and parts of the Canadian Arctic. Also, they owned (but not 100%, I believe) a commuter airline called Nordair Metro.
Quebecair. Again, not much I know about them, but I can say that at some point they flew BAC-1-11's. They were the regional airline for Quebec.
Transair. Transair was based in Winnipeg, flew 737's and was the designated regional for the area east of Calgary and west of Toronto. They also flew some services into the north.
Calm Air. Based in Thompson, Manitoba, they still operate today as a connector for Canadian Airlines, and are 45% owned by Canadian. Currently operating Saab 340's and HS748's into western Ontario, Saskatchewan, and in Manitoba and Nunavut.
Time Air. Based in Lethbridge, Alberta. A commuter airline which eventually became part of Canadian Regional.
Norcanair. Saskatoon based regional carrier, I believe mostly operating in Saskatchewan and remote areas. All I know is that I have a photo of an F28 in their livery somewhere in the mid '80's.
Wardair. Edmonton based charter airline, operated A310's, also had operated 727's, 707's, DC-10's. It went scheduled shortly before it was merged into Canadian airlines.
Here's the sequence of events leading into the merger. First, in 1978 Transair was bought out by PWA. Effectively this made them somewhat of a national carrier for a while, and they operated as Air Canada's western connector. In about 1985 CPAir purchased Nordair. Then, in December 1986 PWA bought out CPAir, EPA, and I believe Quebecair. This formed Canadian Airlines International Limited, and was financed by the above noted leaseback transaction PWA underwent. PWA remained as the parent company until it was renamed Canadian Airlines Corporation in the mid-90's. At this point I believe acquisitions of Calm Air, Time Air, and some other small airlines also occurred, which were slowly formed into Canadian Regional Airlines. The final stage in the merger process was the purchase of Wardair in 1989. Wardair was originally to be operated as a separate charter arm, but after about a year the Wardair name died and it was fully merged into Canadian Airlines.
I believe Air Atlantic, an eastern regional airline, as well as I believe there existed an Ontario Regional Airlines back then, were also purchased, but I'm not totally sure how they were organized into the merger, but I believe they became part of the company.
I hope that helps folks figure it all out. If you've got questions, please ask, I'm not sure I can answer them, but I can try. Also, any corrections to this. Or for that matter additions? These are the airlines I remember or have read as being part of the merger, it may not be a complete list.
As a side note, I remember when the merger happened. My neighbor worked for PWA, and he brought me a whole bunch of the leftovers when the changed the name. He had a ramp parka with CPAir on it, I got a DC-10 model in the old CPAir orange, and he had a whole pile of PWA and later Wardair envelopes and stationary. There was other stuff too, I wish I had gotten some of that stuff. I can also remember the editorial cartoons when the smaller PWA purchase CPAir, and there were cartoons of PWA airplanes having just eaten CPAir, and the caption I remember was "I can't believe I ate the whole thing." I also remember when they bought Wardair, and seeing A310's in Wardair colours with the Canadian Airlines name painted on them.
Dannyboy From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (14 years 9 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 1637 times:
Ontario Regional is an operating name for a division of Air Georgian. They operate Be1900d's for CP on some shorthaul regional work throughout SW Ontario. It's a shame that Canadian Pacific doesn't want to get back into the airline industry(pretty smart on their part though), CP Air was a very classy operation. Anyone interested in the whole story should read the book "Wing Walkers". You can find out how it all came to be in this book.
MD 11 From Germany, joined Sep 1999, 195 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (14 years 9 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 1630 times:
Thanks very much for your detailed informations.
But I have to make one correction: WardAir operated also 747-200´s. I know that, because I flew with them I think 1988.
It was a very good Airline, with "real" dishes for the meals, not that plastic-stuff!
Sad, that there is no CP-Air anymore. I never flew that airline, but as a kid I had a couple of playing cards with several airlines on it, and CP was by far the most pretty airline.
One last question: As I am not a Canadian, is there still a company named Canadian Pacific in the railway business?
Thanks a lot,
AC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (14 years 9 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 1629 times:
Yes Wardair also flew 747's, and I'm not sure, but I think those aircraft were out of the fleet at the time they were bought out. As for your question about whether Canadian Pacific still exists, yes it does. It is still one of the most important Canadian companies. It sold its airline to PWA Corp, as I said, mainly because it could make more money with locomotives than with airplanes. Canadian Pacific built a large and diversified empire in the earlier part of this century, which even used to include cruise ships. Today it is mainly a railway, trucking firm, owns freighter ships, as well as has interests in natural resources and hotels.