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Will UA Create An Even Newer F & C Seat For 787's  
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2793 posts, RR: 10
Posted (3 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5343 times:
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I know UA has a great new F product but do you think they will create and even more "futuristic" interior and seats for their new 787's? Seems like all new generation ac have gone further to create a more spectacular interior industrial design. Any airlines current seat may look out of place.


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12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5313 times:

Aren't they supposed to start getting deliveries within the next 1 1/2 years? If so, then probably not. Most of the PMUA 777 fleet doesn't have the new product yet, and despite the similarities with the PMCO BusinessFirst seat there are still going to be differences across the fleet that they might want to streamline first...

It will be more interesting to see if they get three classes or two.....


User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5022 times:

I cannot see there being any new F & J seats at all, both airlines have "new" J seats and the F Suite on UA at the moment, still to be rolled out on at the 77 fleet is great.

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 1):
It will be more interesting to see if they get three classes or two.....

Thats the six million dollar question and leads me on to say I wish they would make a decision about F on the international fleet and certain markets pronto. That is dragging on now.


User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4806 times:

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 2):
Thats the six million dollar question and leads me on to say I wish they would make a decision about F on the international fleet and certain markets pronto. That is dragging on now.

I'm frankly surprised these decisions have taken so long. Maybe they've decided a bunch of things but are only announcing them one bit at a time. I guess E+ was a big decision for them...


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5815 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4720 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 3):
Quoting ual777uk (Reply 2):
Thats the six million dollar question and leads me on to say I wish they would make a decision about F on the international fleet and certain markets pronto. That is dragging on now.

I'm frankly surprised these decisions have taken so long. Maybe they've decided a bunch of things but are only announcing them one bit at a time. I guess E+ was a big decision for them...

I thought I read on here a while ago that Jeffy said they were going to be running a hybrid fleet of both 3 class and 2 class aircraft for the foreseeable future. With 3 class aircraft being deployed mainly to Asia and certain higher profile markets (LHR and FRA were the guesses on here.)



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineRising From United States of America, joined May 2010, 258 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4584 times:

Perhaps Jeff himself with be designing the seats for the cabins?   I kid the man.

Quoting United1 (Reply 4):
I thought I read on here a while ago that Jeffy said they were going to be running a hybrid fleet of both 3 class and 2 class aircraft for the foreseeable future

Yes, I remember reading something like that too.

And why not really? There is a myth out there that somehow having one standard layout on all aircraft is superior. While there maybe some cost advantages to that model, as well as increased fleet flexibility for irregular operations, the revenue/margin premium gained from having a hybrid far outweighs the costs . As song as the seat covers and cabin aesthetics are standard across the fleet, most passengers probably would not even notice.

It reminds of the argument for having one fleet type or manufacturer for an airline. While there are cost advantages in regard to training and maintenance, and some other things, the ability to have the right amount of seats in the right market far outweighs the costs. It also opens up opportunities/markets that might not be available otherwise.



If it doesn't make sense, it's because it's not true.
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4570 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 4):
I thought I read on here a while ago that Jeffy said they were going to be running a hybrid fleet of both 3 class and 2 class aircraft for the foreseeable future

Yeah, I remember this as well. But I think that many expected some refinements...Such as perhaps making the 763s 2-class, etc.


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5815 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4512 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 6):
Yeah, I remember this as well. But I think that many expected some refinements...Such as perhaps making the 763s 2-class, etc.

Supposedly the 2 class domestic aircraft are going to be converted to a 2 class international configuration....I could see the 763s loosing first class at some point.

I think the 787s are going to be delivered in a 2 class configuration at least at first as they are being used, at least so far, on secondary destinations.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4433 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 4):
I thought I read on here a while ago that Jeffy said they were going to be running a hybrid fleet of both 3 class and 2 class aircraft for the foreseeable future. With 3 class aircraft being deployed mainly to Asia and certain higher profile markets (LHR and FRA were the guesses on here.)

Oh, maybe he did, I certainly did not see it but that dont mean diddly. I think I am right in saying that there has been no offical announcement as such. If they did they must have lost my letter in the post  
Quoting washingtonian (Reply 3):
I guess E+ was a big decision for them...

Perhaps, but I dont see why.

Quoting United1 (Reply 7):
Supposedly the 2 class domestic aircraft are going to be converted to a 2 class international configuration....I could see the 763s loosing first class at some point.

Could we see all 777/744 at LHR in the near future.?   


User currently offlinenycdave From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 546 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3991 times:

When you have a fleet as large as the combined UA/CO, I don't think it's terribly inefficient to have a set of 3-class birds for premium long-haul destinations, and 2-class for others. The problem with swapping only comes up when you have so few of one type that any swap will almost invariably require using the other type.

User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3479 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 1):
It will be more interesting to see if they get three classes or two.....

My guess would be that they would go with three class for the first deliveries. New widebody aircraft tend to be assigned to premium routes in which case UA would want three class service. On the other hand, CO already announced their first 787 route, IAH-AKL and the seat count implied 2 class. I think that announcement was made before the merger was finalized.

If the new UA wants to compete with AA on corporate contracts, they will probably need to have three class service between the biggest business destinations.


User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2360 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 4):
I thought I read on here a while ago that Jeffy said they were going to be running a hybrid fleet of both 3 class and 2 class aircraft for the foreseeable future. With 3 class aircraft being deployed mainly to Asia and certain higher profile markets (LHR and FRA were the guesses on here.)

There is really no way around having a hybrid fleet no matter which way management decides to go. The fleets are so large that significant time will be needed to make any changes.

Quoting Rising (Reply 5):
And why not really? There is a myth out there that somehow having one standard layout on all aircraft is superior. While there maybe some cost advantages to that model, as well as increased fleet flexibility for irregular operations, the revenue/margin premium gained from having a hybrid far outweighs the costs . As song as the seat covers and cabin aesthetics are standard across the fleet, most passengers probably would not even notice.

I cannot really dispute your statement from a cost/benefit analysis standpoint because I have not personally seen this statement from any major airline but I do know how things work from an operational standpoint and I can tell you that it is not as easy as you make it seem. Subbing an aircraft with a different type (which a different layout is) is a big mess and even more so on an international route. Not only do you have to match loads and find crews but you also have to rotate that aircraft and crew back into the network before you throw off the entire schedule.

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 8):
Could we see all 777/744 at LHR in the near future.?

That would be nice, but no!

Quoting nycdave (Reply 9):
When you have a fleet as large as the combined UA/CO, I don't think it's terribly inefficient to have a set of 3-class birds for premium long-haul destinations, and 2-class for others. The problem with swapping only comes up when you have so few of one type that any swap will almost invariably require using the other type.

That's not really true, even with a large fleet when a swap is required it is/can be a problem. You have to realize that even though the fleet is large it is still, or at least should still be scheduled to the maximum level of utilization. Anytime you are making a swap you are pulling an aircraft from somewhere else in the system and that is going to have to be replaced. It is not really a huge deal when you have to swap out an aircraft in a hub that will be down for a few hours, but that is not always what happens! The bottom line is if United decides to go with both 2 and 3 class aircraft you are basically doubling the type of aircraft you fly and must schedule. This has both positive and negative consequences for the airline and in the end the decision will be made based on a very detailed cost/benefit analysis which will give a lot of weight to input from Mileage Plus and OnePass. An announcement should be made VERY soon.



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineKFitz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2056 times:

I for one am hoping they make all CO wide bodies 3-cabin. There's no way around it. First is better than Business. United First is better than Business class, and yes, that includes "business first", which is business class. those seats in BF are not Suites, End of story. dot. period.

Now I'll give my opinion on F v. C, since nobody asked:

While CO had lazy boys in C as their "premier intl. product", UA had personal suites that turned into fully flat beds, over a decade ago now. No comparison at all. UFS (united first suite) is in a different league. Unexpected? No. F v. C

F catering for all it's crapping on here, is better than business, end of story. CO BF is better than new United business, and I know that will anger many UA fanboys. End of story. 2-2-2 on 777, much more space, no question about it. I've done both. Physical seat is identical, CO has colour display on remote, nearly same padding. But CO has more room, more privacy. End of story.

UFS is still better than any C seat, end of story. It serves it's place and would be immensely foolish to remove it. In fact, I'd suggest DL implement a true F product. As it stands now, they have to be giving up a substantial portion of premium paid F traffic to UAL (and to a lesser extent AA).

Leave the 757s in their 2-cabin configuration. And honestly, I am increasingly becoming more hesitant to use either of those phrases describing the domestic 772/763 as "ghetto birds" and the 753s as "slave ships" They are entirely inappropriate and honestly I am embarrassed I have personally used those in the past.


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