8b775zq From St. Kitts and Nevis, joined Aug 2005, 191 posts, RR: 0 Posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8214 times:
Was just wondering that with the large amount of A320's that B6 currently has if the bigger A321 will ever have a role in their fleet as it seems maybe they can use an increase in capacity on some routes. Also why did they never order the A319 instead of the E190? It seems it would've made sense as then all pilots could be rated across the entire fleet with minimum retraining.
Kcrwflyer From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 3628 posts, RR: 7 Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8183 times:
Quoting 8b775zq (Thread starter): Was just wondering that with the large amount of A320's that B6 currently has if the bigger A321 will ever have a role in their fleet as it seems maybe they can use an increase in capacity on some routes. Also why did they never order the A319 instead of the E190? It seems it would've made sense as then all pilots could be rated across the entire fleet with minimum retraining.
Probably not on the A321.. they make enough tech stops as it is when the winds get bad. Even if they got sub fleet of them I couldnt see them used outside of Northeast-Florida flying.
The E90 is much lighter than the a319/a318 and burns less fuel. They also wanted some flexibility in capacity vs the a320 and the a319 doesn't really give you that.
8b775zq From St. Kitts and Nevis, joined Aug 2005, 191 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8155 times:
Doesn't the A321NEO hold any promise for them if this is the case? On another note don't the 738's and 739's have to make any fuel stops when doing transcons when the winds are bad?
0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 835 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7755 times:
Quoting jj8080 (Reply 4): On the same line here, why Southwest never considered 738s or 739ERs?
Southwest is getting a small fleet of 737-800s. And they say that the -800 fleet could eventually reach a maximum of 50. They are going to be utilized in the slot controlled/congested/high demand routes.
Like Southwest, jetBlue, if they ever get any A321s, will only get "small" (relatively) number of them and operate them on similar routes.
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jj8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7722 times:
Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 5): Southwest is getting a small fleet of 737-800s. And they say that the -800 fleet could eventually reach a maximum of 50. They are going to be utilized in the slot controlled/congested/high demand routes.
Didn't know about that. How many do they have as firm orders? When do the first ones arrive?
spchamp1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 87 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7536 times:
As it stands right now, the A321 offers no real advantage to jetBlue. While it does offer increased capacity it comes at the cost of an additional inflight crew member and no real increase of range. IMO, it would have to offer significant increase in range for jetBlue to consider it. Now if the neo is in fact made available on the A321 as it will be with A320 and the improved fuel/range specs are true then there is a strong case for it because that could open up Europe and more of South America.
As for the E190's, there was rumor that jetBlue was looking for something available quickly and at a good price. The A319 would have taken a few years before we started taking deliveries and that we received a significant home town discount from Embraer being that Neeleman (our CEO at the time) was in fact Brazilian.
spchamp1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 87 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7354 times:
Quoting jj8080 (Reply 10):
Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 1):
they make enough tech stops as it is when the winds get bad.
On which routes does this unscheduled fuel stops occur more often?
Mostly anything going west from BOS. As A B6 employee in LGB, our BOS flights are common, but we also see it with a few JFK and even IAD flights if ground times are longer than initially expected. We occassionally get BOS-SAN flights if they have to tech stop and are in danger of breaking SAN hard curfew. This usually involves busses transporting outbound SAN red eye passengers up to LGB and completing the turn in LGB. Not very common though, but it has happened.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16807 posts, RR: 57 Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7304 times:
Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 1):
Probably not on the A321.. they make enough tech stops as it is when the winds get bad. Even if they got sub fleet of them I couldnt see them used outside of Northeast-Florida flying.
The A321NEO might solve that problem. With significantly decreased fuel use, there ought to be more range.
The longest JFK-SFO flight I've ever heard of was 7:10 or so. I was one one that was 6:54. Given that Airbus lists the A321 (current version) with 3200 NM range with full pax and baggage, that should be doable.
windian425 From Barbados, joined Dec 2006, 145 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day ago) and read 6130 times:
The A321NEO should be an interesting proposition for B6. Although the current A321 should work just fine for them for all the north/south flights between the Northeast and Florida. Even the Caribbean is in reach from JFK & BOS with the current A321.
Burkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4248 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 19 hours ago) and read 4902 times:
Quoting jj8080 (Reply 8): Wouldn't this be too much of a niche a/c? The gap between A320 and A321 isn't that big.
An aircraft with 199 seats all Y is the sweet point of this decade, and I assume the next too, for all the LCC. The 6 seats the 738 has more than the A320 is one of its strong points.
seabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 4277 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 18 hours ago) and read 4679 times:
Quoting 8b775zq (Reply 2): Doesn't the A321NEO hold any promise for them if this is the case?
The question is whether they can generate enough extra revenue to make up for the extra crew member.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12): The longest JFK-SFO flight I've ever heard of was 7:10 or so. I was one one that was 6:54. Given that Airbus lists the A321 (current version) with 3200 NM range with full pax and baggage, that should be doable.
B6's configuration is quite heavy. Their A320s seem to top out at about 6:15-6:30. Today's A321 has a bit less range than today's A320. But the NEO will solve the problem. It should do 7:30 (which is about the longest BOS-SFO ever gets on the worst winter days) without a tech stop.
Quoting Burkhard (Reply 15): The 6 seats the 738 has more than the A320 is one of its strong points.
That extra revenue can make up for quite a few disadvantages. I'm sure if Airbus could do it over again they would add one more row to the A320.
Quoting gkirk (Reply 16): Actually 9 seats, 189 vs 180.
In typical configurations (rather than max density), the 738 yields one more row than the A380, or 6 seats.
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mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6172 posts, RR: 74 Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 8 hours ago) and read 2647 times:
Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 1): Probably not on the A321.. they make enough tech stops as it is when the winds get bad. Even if they got sub fleet of them I couldnt see them used outside of Northeast-Florida flying.
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 17): B6's configuration is quite heavy. Their A320s seem to top out at about 6:15-6:30. Today's A321 has a bit less range than today's A320. But the NEO will solve the problem. It should do 7:30 (which is about the longest BOS-SFO ever gets on the worst winter days) without a tech stop.
Well, get the highest gross weight version of the 321... It's more than do-able, unless you have 120-150kts headwind component ALL THE WAY... with up to or almost up to the Max Zero Fuel Weight allowed, and still be under MTOW on the departure. At worst, just take off the cargo...
Mandala499
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0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 835 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 8 hours ago) and read 2425 times:
Quoting mandala499 (Reply 20): Well, get the highest gross weight version of the 321... It's more than do-able, unless you have 120-150kts headwind component ALL THE WAY... with up to or almost up to the Max Zero Fuel Weight allowed, and still be under MTOW on the departure.
But that's where the $MONEY is... Do you really think jetBlue (or anyone else) makes money off of Manhattan apartment dwellers spending $200 on a roundtrip transcon ticket?
"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
RayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7693 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 3 hours ago) and read 2120 times:
If B6 does get the A321, it would NOT be assigned to trancon routes. The primary route for the A321 would be JFK to FLL/PBI/MCO/TPA, especially given the huge number of New York City-area expatriates that live in Florida.
Eaa3 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 956 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 3 hours ago) and read 2105 times:
Quoting spchamp1 (Reply 9): As for the E190's, there was rumor that jetBlue was looking for something available quickly and at a good price. The A319 would have taken a few years before we started taking deliveries and that we received a significant home town discount from Embraer being that Neeleman (our CEO at the time) was in fact Brazilian.
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The question is whether they can generate enough extra revenue to make up for the extra crew member.
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