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Does The A321 Have A Place With JetBlue?  
User currently online8b775zq From St. Kitts and Nevis, joined Aug 2005, 228 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8625 times:

Was just wondering that with the large amount of A320's that B6 currently has if the bigger A321 will ever have a role in their fleet as it seems maybe they can use an increase in capacity on some routes. Also why did they never order the A319 instead of the E190? It seems it would've made sense as then all pilots could be rated across the entire fleet with minimum retraining.

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3805 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8594 times:

Quoting 8b775zq (Thread starter):
Was just wondering that with the large amount of A320's that B6 currently has if the bigger A321 will ever have a role in their fleet as it seems maybe they can use an increase in capacity on some routes. Also why did they never order the A319 instead of the E190? It seems it would've made sense as then all pilots could be rated across the entire fleet with minimum retraining.

Probably not on the A321.. they make enough tech stops as it is when the winds get bad. Even if they got sub fleet of them I couldnt see them used outside of Northeast-Florida flying.

The E90 is much lighter than the a319/a318 and burns less fuel. They also wanted some flexibility in capacity vs the a320 and the a319 doesn't really give you that.


User currently online8b775zq From St. Kitts and Nevis, joined Aug 2005, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 8566 times:

Doesn't the A321NEO hold any promise for them if this is the case? On another note don't the 738's and 739's have to make any fuel stops when doing transcons when the winds are bad?

User currently offline0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 8484 times:

Quoting 8b775zq (Reply 2):
Doesn't the A321NEO hold any promise for them if this is the case?

Sure does.

Quoting 8b775zq (Reply 2):
On another note don't the 738's and 739's have to make any fuel stops when doing transcons when the winds are bad?

The 737 operated flights make significantly less fuel stops than the 320s and 321s when the winds are bad, but yes, it does happen.



"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
User currently offlinejj8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 8327 times:

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 3):
Quoting 8b775zq (Reply 2):
Doesn't the A321NEO hold any promise for them if this is the case?

Sure does



I also think that with increased range on the NEO series we may expect Jetblue going for the A321.

On the same line here, why Southwest never considered 738s or 739ERs?

Rgs,
JJ8080



100 146 319/20/21 332 722 732/3/4/5/G/W/8/H/9 742/3/4 752/3 762/3 772/W BE2 BET E75 CNJ CR2 D10 F27 F50 ER4 LRJ M11 M80
User currently offline0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8166 times:

Quoting jj8080 (Reply 4):
On the same line here, why Southwest never considered 738s or 739ERs?

Southwest is getting a small fleet of 737-800s. And they say that the -800 fleet could eventually reach a maximum of 50. They are going to be utilized in the slot controlled/congested/high demand routes.

Like Southwest, jetBlue, if they ever get any A321s, will only get "small" (relatively) number of them and operate them on similar routes.



"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
User currently offlinejj8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8133 times:

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 5):
Southwest is getting a small fleet of 737-800s. And they say that the -800 fleet could eventually reach a maximum of 50. They are going to be utilized in the slot controlled/congested/high demand routes.

Didn't know about that. How many do they have as firm orders? When do the first ones arrive?



100 146 319/20/21 332 722 732/3/4/5/G/W/8/H/9 742/3/4 752/3 762/3 772/W BE2 BET E75 CNJ CR2 D10 F27 F50 ER4 LRJ M11 M80
User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7482 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8110 times:

I remember reading a while ago that B6 wanted Airbus to look into an A320 1/2 . Mid-way between an A320 and -21.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlinejj8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8018 times:

Quoting United_fan (Reply 7):
I remember reading a while ago that B6 wanted Airbus to look into an A320 1/2 . Mid-way between an A320 and -21.

Wouldn't this be too much of a niche a/c? The gap between A320 and A321 isn't that big.



100 146 319/20/21 332 722 732/3/4/5/G/W/8/H/9 742/3/4 752/3 762/3 772/W BE2 BET E75 CNJ CR2 D10 F27 F50 ER4 LRJ M11 M80
User currently offlinespchamp1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7947 times:

As it stands right now, the A321 offers no real advantage to jetBlue. While it does offer increased capacity it comes at the cost of an additional inflight crew member and no real increase of range. IMO, it would have to offer significant increase in range for jetBlue to consider it. Now if the neo is in fact made available on the A321 as it will be with A320 and the improved fuel/range specs are true then there is a strong case for it because that could open up Europe and more of South America.

As for the E190's, there was rumor that jetBlue was looking for something available quickly and at a good price. The A319 would have taken a few years before we started taking deliveries and that we received a significant home town discount from Embraer being that Neeleman (our CEO at the time) was in fact Brazilian.


User currently offlinejj8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7847 times:

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 1):
they make enough tech stops as it is when the winds get bad.

On which routes does this unscheduled fuel stops occur more often?



100 146 319/20/21 332 722 732/3/4/5/G/W/8/H/9 742/3/4 752/3 762/3 772/W BE2 BET E75 CNJ CR2 D10 F27 F50 ER4 LRJ M11 M80
User currently offlinespchamp1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7765 times:

Quoting jj8080 (Reply 10):

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 1):
they make enough tech stops as it is when the winds get bad.

On which routes does this unscheduled fuel stops occur more often?


Mostly anything going west from BOS. As A B6 employee in LGB, our BOS flights are common, but we also see it with a few JFK and even IAD flights if ground times are longer than initially expected. We occassionally get BOS-SAN flights if they have to tech stop and are in danger of breaking SAN hard curfew. This usually involves busses transporting outbound SAN red eye passengers up to LGB and completing the turn in LGB. Not very common though, but it has happened.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19500 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7715 times:

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 1):

Probably not on the A321.. they make enough tech stops as it is when the winds get bad. Even if they got sub fleet of them I couldnt see them used outside of Northeast-Florida flying.

The A321NEO might solve that problem. With significantly decreased fuel use, there ought to be more range.

The longest JFK-SFO flight I've ever heard of was 7:10 or so. I was one one that was 6:54. Given that Airbus lists the A321 (current version) with 3200 NM range with full pax and baggage, that should be doable.


User currently offline0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7625 times:

Quoting jj8080 (Reply 6):
How many do they have as firm orders? When do the first ones arrive?

20 on order with the deliveries starting in 11 months.



"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
User currently offlinewindian425 From Barbados, joined Dec 2006, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6541 times:

The A321NEO should be an interesting proposition for B6. Although the current A321 should work just fine for them for all the north/south flights between the Northeast and Florida. Even the Caribbean is in reach from JFK & BOS with the current A321.   

User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4395 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5313 times:

Quoting jj8080 (Reply 8):
Wouldn't this be too much of a niche a/c? The gap between A320 and A321 isn't that big.

An aircraft with 199 seats all Y is the sweet point of this decade, and I assume the next too, for all the LCC. The 6 seats the 738 has more than the A320 is one of its strong points.


User currently offlinegkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24923 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5141 times:

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 15):
The 6 seats the 738 has more than the A320 is one of its strong points.

Actually 9 seats, 189 vs 180.



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5090 times:

Quoting 8b775zq (Reply 2):
Doesn't the A321NEO hold any promise for them if this is the case?

   The question is whether they can generate enough extra revenue to make up for the extra crew member.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
The longest JFK-SFO flight I've ever heard of was 7:10 or so. I was one one that was 6:54. Given that Airbus lists the A321 (current version) with 3200 NM range with full pax and baggage, that should be doable.

B6's configuration is quite heavy. Their A320s seem to top out at about 6:15-6:30. Today's A321 has a bit less range than today's A320. But the NEO will solve the problem. It should do 7:30 (which is about the longest BOS-SFO ever gets on the worst winter days) without a tech stop.

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 15):
The 6 seats the 738 has more than the A320 is one of its strong points.

   That extra revenue can make up for quite a few disadvantages. I'm sure if Airbus could do it over again they would add one more row to the A320.

Quoting gkirk (Reply 16):
Actually 9 seats, 189 vs 180.

In typical configurations (rather than max density), the 738 yields one more row than the A380, or 6 seats.


User currently offline0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4115 times:

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 17):
the 738 yields one more row than the A380, or 6 seats.

Those A380 suites must be very luxurious for there to be so few!   



"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3980 times:

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 18):
Those A380 suites must be very luxurious for there to be so few!

You didn't hear about JetBlue's new all-premium A380 transcon service? Where have you been?   

  


User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6836 posts, RR: 75
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3058 times:

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 1):
Probably not on the A321.. they make enough tech stops as it is when the winds get bad. Even if they got sub fleet of them I couldnt see them used outside of Northeast-Florida flying.
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 17):
B6's configuration is quite heavy. Their A320s seem to top out at about 6:15-6:30. Today's A321 has a bit less range than today's A320. But the NEO will solve the problem. It should do 7:30 (which is about the longest BOS-SFO ever gets on the worst winter days) without a tech stop.

Well, get the highest gross weight version of the 321... It's more than do-able, unless you have 120-150kts headwind component ALL THE WAY... with up to or almost up to the Max Zero Fuel Weight allowed, and still be under MTOW on the departure. At worst, just take off the cargo...

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offline0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2836 times:

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 20):
Well, get the highest gross weight version of the 321... It's more than do-able, unless you have 120-150kts headwind component ALL THE WAY... with up to or almost up to the Max Zero Fuel Weight allowed, and still be under MTOW on the departure.

Are you sure about that?

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 20):
At worst, just take off the cargo...

But that's where the $MONEY is... Do you really think jetBlue (or anyone else) makes money off of Manhattan apartment dwellers spending $200 on a roundtrip transcon ticket?



"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2692 times:

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 20):
unless you have 120-150kts headwind component ALL THE WAY

This (or a long indirect routing meant to avoid it) is not atypical in the continental U.S. in the winter.


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8002 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2531 times:

If B6 does get the A321, it would NOT be assigned to trancon routes. The primary route for the A321 would be JFK to FLL/PBI/MCO/TPA, especially given the huge number of New York City-area expatriates that live in Florida.

User currently offlineEaa3 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1003 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2516 times:

Quoting spchamp1 (Reply 9):
As for the E190's, there was rumor that jetBlue was looking for something available quickly and at a good price. The A319 would have taken a few years before we started taking deliveries and that we received a significant home town discount from Embraer being that Neeleman (our CEO at the time) was in fact Brazilian.

And in a sense still is Brazilian.  


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