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Bombardier CSeries Update  
User currently offlineadamblang From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 115 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7637 times:

I haven't heard anything lately about the CSeries nor is the search tool turning up much of anything insightful. Has there been any progress toward building testing frames, anything about when testing might start, or any adjustments to the EIS date?


The views and opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer or its partners.
13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3068 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7487 times:

Quoting adamblang (Thread starter):
Has there been any progress toward building testing frames, anything about when testing might start, or any adjustments to the EIS date?

I want to say I read that prototypes are under construction now and full-scale testing will begin this summer, but I could be incorrect. I wouldn't mind reading a well-documented update on CSeries progress as well.



Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently offlinepylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7317 times:

If there is a person with knowledge of the CS project history:
- why did BBD negotiate with Sukhoi for a prtty long time and why it all failed?
- what would be BBD-COMAC cooperation like?


User currently offlineadamblang From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7057 times:

Answering my own questions:

From Reinforced Plastics:

Quote:
Bombardier has started work at its Mirabel, Québec production facility to accommodate final assembly of the first flight test CSeries aircraft.

...

Bombardier reports that the Complete Integrated Aircraft Systems Test Area (CIASTA), the first area at the Mirabel plant developed for the CSeries aircraft programme, is progressing on schedule, and systems rigs are currently being installed. In addition, new buildings for the CSeries aircraft programme will include a supplier satellite area, final assembly structural joining and pulse line areas, an area for pre-flight testing, paint shops, and a delivery and administrative centre.

From The Montreal Gazette:

Quote:
He said that despite reports of a three-month delay about which he would not comment, Bombardier anticipates to stick to its announced schedule of sometime next year for the CSeries's first flight and entry into service with airlines in late 2013.

Hachey acknowledged there has been "some movement" within the development program, but Beaudoin added that doesn't necessarily mean a delay and can mean shifting things around.

...

Hachey added that reassuring airlines that the CSeries won't be late is "a constant battle around the world" after the years-long delays incurred by Airbus SA on its A-380 double-decker and Boeing Co. on its 787 Dreamliner.

...

Company chief financial officer Pierre Alary said that the funding of the CSeries' development program has been "effectively ensured" by a host of measures: the refinancing of much of Bombardier's long-term debt last year on better terms, extending its maturity from 6.5 years, to 8.9 years, the company's cash balance of $4.2 billion, another $500 million in revolving credit facility, and an "essentially debt repayment-free (schedule) until 2016."

From The Wall Street Journal:

Quote:
"We don't anticipate any delays. We are confident that we will be delivering in 2013," Hachey said.

"It's a huge discussion with our customers," he said. "Most of these customers, one way or another, have been burnt. We're fighting that constantly."

And from Aviation Week for pylon101:

Quote:
Bombardier and Comac may be laying the foundation for a third force in commercial aircraft manufacturing with a framework agreement under which they will coordinate their respective CSeries and C919 designs to create a series of interoperable airliners.

The intended long-term cooperative relationship would give sales support to Comac, Chinese market access to Bombardier and the synergies of a broader product offering to both.

...

The main immediate objective of the agreement is to introduce common features into the C919 and Bombardier CSeries. That will probably mean changing the former more than the latter because the CSeries is less than three years from scheduled certification, whereas the C919 still has at least five years to go.

Beyond that, the Chinese and Canadian companies say they will explore opportunities for developing new aircraft. In its Chinese-language statement, Comac says those aircraft could be new types; Bombardier Aerospace VP-International Affairs Benjamin Boehm suggests they could be derivatives.


[Edited 2011-04-21 11:22:51]

[Edited 2011-04-21 11:28:43]


The views and opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer or its partners.
User currently offlinedavs5032 From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7048 times:

I am curious as well as to why BBD has kept the progression of the project "behind closed doors." It's a stark contrast to Boeing, which releases a video and article for every single minor step taken in their new builds. By this time, you'd think that significant steps should be occurring and that the company would benefit from publicizing them. It makes me wonder if the process is behind schedule or encountering issues that BBD might want to shield from the media's view...

User currently offlinepylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6875 times:

I may be wrong. But my understanding is that something unprecedented has happened.
BBD is going to make technology available to COMAC.
It is a giant step compared to Airbus factory manufacturing A-320 parts.


User currently offlineadamblang From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6791 times:

Quoting pylon101 (Reply 5):
But my understanding is that something unprecedented has happened.

It does sound like they'll be essentially offering one product line developed between two companies.



The views and opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer or its partners.
User currently offlineTangowhisky From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 912 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6667 times:

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 4):
I am curious as well as to why BBD has kept the progression of the project "behind closed doors." It's a stark contrast to Boeing,

That approach did not pan out well for Boeing as the unexpecteds happened. My guess is that until BBD are certain they will reach major program milestones, they will keep low under the radar and continue to do their work.

Quoting pylon101 (Reply 5):
BBD is going to make technology available to COMAC.

I think that BBD will provide things like customer services and program management for the C919 in exchange of hoping to sell 100 to 140 seat CSeries jets in China. It would be a win for BBD as COMAC will give a very profitable business (customer services) or at least a portion of it to Bombardier.



Only the paranoid survive
User currently offlinesawtooth From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5579 times:

Recent PP1000 marketing info:

1200 engines on order
CSeries engine "exceeding expectations"
Ground test completed, currently ice testing and full flight test this summer

http://www.purepowerengine.com/pdf/purepower_newsletter_041911.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/user/purepowerengine#p/u/6/RhQhPMQVwfw
http://www.youtube.com/user/purepowerengine#p/u/7/7CU0B7VeLFU

Bombardier have been quiet, some new images on their twitter feed:

http://twitter.com/#!/Bombardier_Aero
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bombardieraerospace/with/5640796096/


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13018 posts, RR: 100
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5037 times:
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Quoting TSS (Reply 1):
I want to say I read that prototypes are under construction now and full-scale testing will begin this summer,

Bombardier is hiring on that schedule.

However, they have made 'low ball' offers to a few flight test engineers I know. Probably as this is a buyers market...   

Quoting sawtooth (Reply 8):
CSeries engine "exceeding expectations"

  

My rumor mill is very excited about the fuel burn.  

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineCRJ900X From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4817 times:

Are we going to see further orders for this plane at the Paris Airshow? It seems as though Qatar Airways will order some of the CSeries aircraft, but do we have any other likely potential airlines/lessors that might purchase them?

Lufthansa ordered the A320neo's but not any A319neo's, so might Lufthansa order some for their own operation (on top of the CSeries planes they ordered for the SWISS operation).

A Chinese airline might be the next order for some CSeries, as Bombardier has extensive ties with their relationship with COMAC and that some of the plane is being built in China. China Southern?

Sky Work Airlines of Switzerland had showed some interest in the CSeries, but who knows if that will turn into orders, but the airline has been expanding with further Dornier 328's and Q400's to be added in the near future.

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...k-cseries-ideal-for-expansion.html

I heard a rumour that Air Mekong (the small airline that currently flies CRJ900's in Vietnam) will order some CSeries, but again, we will have to wait and see.

Any further rumours about any American carrier (American, Delta, Southwest) looking at placing orders?


User currently offlinedavs5032 From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4752 times:

Quoting CRJ900X (Reply 10):
Any further rumours about any American carrier

I'd like to see DL place a C series order as part of their NB order. It would certainly make a lot of sense given the DC-9 and MD80 replacements they're going to need, and the CS300 will be available early enough to meet their needs.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13018 posts, RR: 100
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4705 times:
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Quoting CRJ900X (Reply 10):
Are we going to see further orders for this plane at the Paris Airshow?

One hopes.

My rumor mill is saying the same thing they have for 3 years. Lots of discussions with a number of airlines. (Note: I do not know who. I'm not about to endanger a friend's job.)

Quoting CRJ900X (Reply 10):
Any further rumours about any American carrier (American, Delta, Southwest) looking at placing orders?

DL was negotiating, but many in the industry, including my 'rumor mill' wonder if it is just a ploy for negotiations with Boeing and Airbus.  

AA needs someone wililng to finance the purchase with a *very* low down payment. AA has also been adament about a 'quick fleet turn' with MD-80 replacement in 3 years! (To minimize the costs of the A/C transition.) So they remain a possibility (probably with a split 738/C-series order though...).

I've hear UA is talking, but who knows what that means.

WN is interesting... the FL leases expire 2014 though 2017 on the 717... So there is a HUGE opportunity for Bombardier. But WN is cautious in fleet ordering... I expect WN to stay on the sidelines until the C-series has proven dispatch reliability, turn time, fuel burn, and maintenance costs. Sigh...  

I don't mean to rain on the C-series parade (I personally think the type will do well). However, I'm not expecting big orders until 18 months after EIS. Bombardier is going to have a tough time getting the line up to an economic rate.

However... My rumor mill is adament that Bombardier/Pratt are trying to snag 732/737classic operators to replace with the C-series including tiny airlines that Boeing and Airbus normally ignore. Airlines that normally wouldn't be able to finance new build (but would benefit from the C-series economics). A risk if Bombardier only sells to a few. But like insurance, a profit center once the risk is spread amoung enough airlines (20+).

All Bombardier needs is those initial 20+ airline customers... Once past twenty, the leasing companies will drive C-series sales for Bombardier.   

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1392 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4682 times:

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 11):
It would certainly make a lot of sense given the DC-9 and MD80 replacements they're going to need

it would certainly be a huge improvement in fuel burn/pax, on the order of a 50% improvement for an CS300ER vs. MD88s.


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