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If Customer Wanted... Would Manufacturer Oblige?  
User currently offlinePillowTester From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 245 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 5 months 1 hour ago) and read 1959 times:

Just curious, if an airline or even perhaps a VIP customer, for whatever reason, wanted to order a 747-8 Intercontinental with the "classic" length upper-deck of the 747-8 Freighter, would Boeing oblige to such a request? Would there be any reason to think this isn't feasible?

Do airlines or VIP customers ever request such tweaks to their aircraft?

[Edited 2011-04-21 10:29:17]


...said Dan jubilantly.
13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinec5load From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 1 hour ago) and read 1940 times:

I would think if the price was right, Boeing would pretty much do anything within reason. If I were a customer though, I would still want the full length upper deck. The main deck would all belong to me, and the upper deck would belong to my wife.  


"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
User currently offlineLY4XELD From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 857 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 1 hour ago) and read 1928 times:

Since a shorter upper deck would not meet a type cert, I can't see Boeing going through the hoops to get that configuration certified, even if it is for one customer. Unless, of course, the customer pays all the cost to certify it.


That's why we're here.
User currently onlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6324 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 1 hour ago) and read 1906 times:

OK, brain working again, so after some edits, here are my thoughts:

The type certificate is the main problem you have, in addition to some production line issues I might imagine. And, what advantage might the customer get from spending the extra money Boeing would charge?

[Edited 2011-04-21 10:38:03]

User currently offline0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 1 hour ago) and read 1906 times:

If the customer was willing to PAY for them to modify the 747-8F they sure would. Otherwise it's not gonna happen.

It's all about the $$

BTW... I think Boeing would start with the 747-8F and then move it towards being a 747-8i rather than starting out with an i and moving to an F (in terms of size and um... "hump length"). There'll also be some type cert issues they'll have to deal with.

[Edited 2011-04-21 10:36:53]


"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
User currently offlinePillowTester From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 1 hour ago) and read 1877 times:

I'm talking about the short length of the 747-8 Freighter, which is the same as the 747-100 and 747-200 models. In the hypothetical situation of "why" isn't the question, rather if. But, I would suggest a "why", at least in the case of a hypothetical VIP customer, as perhaps an aesthetic reason. Maybe someone might find the silhouette of the classic sized upper deck more appealing.


...said Dan jubilantly.
User currently offlinePillowTester From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 1 hour ago) and read 1859 times:

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 4):
BTW... I think Boeing would start with the 747-8F and then move it towards being a 747-8i rather than starting out with an i and moving to an F (in terms of size and um... "hump length"). There'll also be some type cert issues they'll have to deal with.

Wouldn't it make more sense to simply build a 747-8 Intercontinental with the upper deck of a 747-8F? I wouldn't think you'd need to "start out" with one or the other and modify it, rather build the two components as you normally would and combine them.



...said Dan jubilantly.
User currently onlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6324 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 1 hour ago) and read 1859 times:

Quoting PillowTester (Reply 5):
as perhaps an aesthetic reason. Maybe someone might find the silhouette of the classic sized upper deck more appealing.

A few crazy nutjobs who have more money than brains might be willing to fork over the extra money for this, but...I just can't see anyone willing to pay the extra (probably fairly high, because everything in aircraft production is high) fees for something like this.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6653 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 1 hour ago) and read 1859 times:

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 4):
747-8F and then move it towards being a 747-8i

The easier way to certify it would probably be to do the opposite, shortening the upper deck as an STC. It may also be easier overall, the guts of the two planes being quite different.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinePillowTester From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 1 hour ago) and read 1836 times:

Quoting sw733 (Reply 7):
A few crazy nutjobs who have more money than brains might be willing to fork over the extra money for this, but...I just can't see anyone willing to pay the extra (probably fairly high, because everything in aircraft production is high) fees for something like this.

Again, though, would it really be a significant cost increase? We're talking about two variants of the same aircraft that are otherwise 95% identical. What sort of hurdles would there be as far as construction (aside from certification, as that sounds questionable)?



...said Dan jubilantly.
User currently onlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6324 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 1 hour ago) and read 1811 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 8):
shortening the upper deck as an STC

Likely the easier and cheaper way, certification wise.


User currently onlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6324 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 1 hour ago) and read 1811 times:

Quoting PillowTester (Reply 9):
What sort of hurdles would there be as far as construction

Not sure, I don't know how Boeing is planning on running their 747-8 production line. If it is one production line that just goes between the -8I and the -8F, that's much easier. If it's two completely different production lines and you must cross them for this one project, that definitely increases costs. At this point, I don't personally know Boeing's plan on production of the new 747-8 platforms.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1439 times:

Quoting PillowTester (Thread starter):

Just curious, if an airline or even perhaps a VIP customer, for whatever reason, wanted to order a 747-8 Intercontinental with the "classic" length upper-deck of the 747-8 Freighter, would Boeing oblige to such a request?

If they were willing to pay the money, sure. There's a whole branch of Boeing that does nothing but develop custom service bulletins for things like this.

Quoting PillowTester (Thread starter):
Would there be any reason to think this isn't feasible?

Technically? No big deal. Cost? Huge deal.

Quoting PillowTester (Reply 9):
Again, though, would it really be a significant cost increase?

Hundreds of millions, at least, by the time you do the design, certification, documentation, etc.

Tom.


User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1376 times:

Boeing wouldn't do it on the production line - unless this customer paid ALL the bills.

There are 3rd parties out there that could shrink the upper deck (Boeing would take it on as a mod too, just not on the regular production line).

Boeing in fact offered a SUD retrofit for the early 747s, this would be the reverse.


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