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Delta Destined To Order 77W Or 747-8?  
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 23674 times:

Even if they keep the 747 fleet for another decade as they intend to do, they will eventually need to replace those 16 birds...Unlike United which has A350 orders, Delta's only choices will be the 747-8 or the 77W (assuming they don't go with Airbus)...So it seems inevitable that they will operate one of those two in the future.

Also, I was just looking at their fleet numbers. Boy oh boy are they going to need a lot of 787s starting in 2020...Huge 767 fleet to replace, and the A-330 fleet will be getting old just around the time the 767s are nearly retired!

Not to mention the pending narrowbody order. They're going to need to replace nearly 200 narrowbody aircraft in the next decade!

111 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19682 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 23667 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Thread starter):
Even if they keep the 747 fleet for another decade as they intend to do, they will eventually need to replace those 16 birds...Unlike United which has A350 orders, Delta's only choices will be the 747-8 or the 77W (assuming they don't go with Airbus)...So it seems inevitable that they will operate one of those two in the future.

They will probably go with the 77W because of commonality with the 77L. They've been using the 744's because 'tis better to fly them than park them, but I doubt they'll have any use for a 748i.

Quoting washingtonian (Thread starter):
Boy oh boy are they going to need a lot of 787s starting in 2020...

They pushed their orders back until 2020. Maybe that's why.


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2823 posts, RR: 45
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 23565 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Thread starter):
Even if they keep the 747 fleet for another decade as they intend to do, they will eventually need to replace those 16 birds...Unlike United which has A350 orders, Delta's only choices will be the 747-8 or the 77W (assuming they don't go with Airbus)...So it seems inevitable that they will operate one of those two in the future.

Also, I was just looking at their fleet numbers. Boy oh boy are they going to need a lot of 787s starting in 2020...Huge 767 fleet to replace, and the A-330 fleet will be getting old just around the time the 767s are nearly retired!

Not to mention the pending narrowbody order. They're going to need to replace nearly 200 narrowbody aircraft in the next decade!

So your point is? That Delta will need to buy replacement aircraft? Yes, they will.

Why would their only choices be the 747-8 or 77W? How is it that they can't decide to increase frequency with more 787s or buy Airbus products instead? Your assumption contains the logical fallacy that Delta has to replace the 744 with an aircraft of similar capacity, and that is not correct.


User currently offlinedelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1512 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 23538 times:

There's a lot of time between now and when the 744s will start to go. Between now and then the 777 could be nextgenned, so who knows? We could be seeing a 774 replace a 744.  

I really don't see the 748. DL has expressed its preference for large twins.

[Edited 2011-04-21 15:07:12]

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15739 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 23461 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Thread starter):
Delta's only choices will be the 747-8 or the 77W (assuming they don't go with Airbus).

There is really no reason to assume that. If Airbus gives them a better plane at a better price, they can buy A350s, just like it's been since the mid-1990s.

Anyway, maybe they go with 77Ws, but more likely I think it will be A350s or 787-9s (or -10s) rather than 747s or A380s.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10419 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 22415 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
There is really no reason to assume that. If Airbus gives them a better plane at a better price, they can buy A350s, just like it's been since the mid-1990s.

???


Except for the A310s that they acquired from PanAm and that small bunch they ordered in the 90s, DELTA has never ordered any Airbus equipment. They soon found out that the A310s were what they wanted, either and got rid of those. Matter of fact, I believe they were locked into that order that had been made by PanAm.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15739 posts, RR: 27
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 22384 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 5):

Delta has had complete freedom to purchase aircraft from Airbus since the McDonnell Douglas merger. They haven't because Boeing has always had a better deal for them. The same applies here.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKGRB From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 716 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 22235 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 5):
???


Except for the A310s that they acquired from PanAm and that small bunch they ordered in the 90s, DELTA has never ordered any Airbus equipment. They soon found out that the A310s were what they wanted, either and got rid of those. Matter of fact, I believe they were locked into that order that had been made by PanAm.

The 80s are over, the landscape is totally different, and DL is now one of the largest Airbus operators in the world. As long as Richard Anderson is at the helm, he won't hesitate to buy from Airbus if they're offering the product that's best for Delta. You can't really point to events in the 80s and 90s and say things are still the same in 2011. Everything is different now.



Δ D E L T A: Keep Climbing
User currently offlineSkyPriorityDTW From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 187 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 22241 times:

Seeing that Delta, and JV partners Air France, KLM, & Alitalia, signed a new global contract with EADS yesterday, I highly doubt their relationship with Airbus is diminished enough to not purchase any aircraft from them. In the press release, it was said that this new contract would reinforce the partnership between EADS and the JV as their number one supplier. 64% of EADS revenue comes from Airbus... so this, if anything, most definitely reinforces the relationship between Delta (and it's JV partners) and Airbus. It is also noted in this that the DL/AF/KL/AZ JV is their "preferred" alliance to cooperate with globally.


Keep Climbing...
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15739 posts, RR: 27
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 22205 times:

Quoting KGRB (Reply 7):
As long as Richard Anderson is at the helm, he won't hesitate to buy from Airbus if they're offering the product that's best for Delta.

But that isn't because of Anderson or the Northwest merger.

Quoting KGRB (Reply 7):
Everything is different now.

Since 1997 or so anyway.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10419 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 21984 times:

Quoting KGRB (Reply 7):
The 80s are over, the landscape is totally different, and DL is now one of the largest Airbus operators in the world. As long as Richard Anderson is at the helm, he won't hesitate to buy from Airbus if they're offering the product that's best for Delta. You can't really point to events in the 80s and 90s and say things are still the same in 2011. Everything is different now.

But I didn't. I was just referring to the fact that DELTA, not NW has never really purchased Airbus equipment in any meaningful numbers and in fact, that particular order of A310s was something that they had to take as part of the PanAm acquisition. To say they've been an Airbus customer since the 90s, is a little off base, wouldn't you say?


At the time that the EU more or less, had the "exclusive agreement" with DL and Boeing, eliminated, the general feeling around DL was that it didn't make much difference because DL would probably buy just Boeing equipment, anyway, no matter what the EU said. I'm willing to bet that it had very little to do with what prices Airbus and Boeing were offering us, at the time, but you'd probably have to ask someone that worked in purchasing about that, for sure.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineKGRB From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 716 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 21901 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 9):
But that isn't because of Anderson or the Northwest merger.

I agree, but Anderson & Northwest certainly make the case for future Airbus orders a bit stronger, don't you think?

Quoting mayor (Reply 10):
To say they've been an Airbus customer since the 90s, is a little off base, wouldn't you say?

I think BMI727 was referring to the Boeing exclusivity agreement ending in the 90s, at the time of the McD takeover by Boeing, not saying that they've been an Airbus customer since the '90s.

I would never argue that DL has ordered large numbers of Airbuses in the past, but I would also add that Delta circa 2011 is a very different airline than the one that signed the exclusivity agreement 15 years ago.

And back to the original topic of DL's 744 replacement, I think it'll come down to the 77W vs. the A350-1000. If the A350 is substantially more efficient than the 77W, Delta will probably go in that direction. If the efficiency gains are minimal, I would expect DL to take the 77W for commonality's sake. If Boeing offers a 777NG, all bets are off the table...



Δ D E L T A: Keep Climbing
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15739 posts, RR: 27
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 21848 times:

Quoting KGRB (Reply 11):
I agree, but Anderson & Northwest certainly make the case for future Airbus orders a bit stronger, don't you think?

No I don't think so. The terms Delta got from Boeing were apparently never matched or bettered by Airbus in the intervening years. Maybe Airbus will see fit to go after the new larger airline harder than they did for Delta before. The major way that an Airbus order becomes more likely is that a larger airline has a larger fleet which can be split among more types without losing economy of scale, but that's only a function of size, not who Delta merged with or who is leading the combined company.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinewn700driver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 21638 times:

Quoting delimit (Reply 3):
Between now and then the 777 could be nextgenned, so who knows? We could be seeing a 774 replace a 744.

As if...

You know as well as anyone that the next 777 will be the "778," since the duopoly hates series that don't start at 8 now.

Would be cool to see an NG'd 777 though, whatever it gets's called.

I'm in the camp that it will come down to 77NG vs A3510. The 350-1000 may not have much of a chance though, as thus far it seems to be more about efficiency than capability. But, as posted above, ten years is a long time. We'll see what happens. . .


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30976 posts, RR: 86
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 21602 times:
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I would expect them to choose the 77W over the 748 at the top end. If they chose to stay with Boeing in the widebody fleet, I could see 788s to replace the 763s/A332s and 789s to replace the 77Es/A333s since DL uses two classes. But the entire A350 range would work for them, as well.

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks ago) and read 20811 times:

UA/DL can still go for the A380/B747-8. Time will tell

User currently offlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 770 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 20784 times:
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Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):

Like nearly all airliners will do......


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7186 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 20757 times:

The global industry has changed a lot in the past 8 years. By 2020 Travel might have become a luxury only the rich can afford again or might be only A380s flying fewer flights or anything...

They could even be bankrupt or absorbed by then. Stranger things have happened...


User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 20286 times:

Delta does not need the capacity of the B 748 nor the A 380 for any route I reckon. Having a fleet consisting of B 77Ws + B 77Ls + B 772ERs and A 330s is more than adequate for the long term. They should seriously consider exchanging as many B 788s as they can for new B 77Ws to replace the B 744s in due course.

User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 971 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 19327 times:

Quoting behramjee (Reply 18):
Delta does not need the capacity of the B 748 nor the A 380 for any route I reckon.

The problem with the A380/B748 for DL is that the airline seems to prefer long, thin routes over dense markets, which are covered nicely by AF and their limited number of A380s. It's too bad the 787 program couldn't deliver aircraft immediately and that DL delayed the order; the 767s, from an aesthetic point of view, are nasty compared to newer Airbuses and 777s, which are too big in any case to fly on long, thin routes. The 767s do make better sense financially, however, given their ability to fly in smaller markets and still make money.

What I don't understand is why there aren't better 767 replacements out there. The 787 and A350 seem too expensive. If DL could buy new, more efficient 767s and 757s to fly international, it would probably do so, but I don't see anything like that left on the market. My guess is that the carrier's cost advantage will likely erode over the years as it is forced to buy new long-haul aircraft and can no longer benefit from the economics of the 767s.


User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7186 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 19327 times:

Quoting KGRB (Reply 7):
As long as Richard Anderson is at the helm,
Quoting KGRB (Reply 7):
the product that's best for Delta.

I removed the OEM from the quotes because in my opinion, in this day and age, what matters is who is at the helm because they determine and define what is best for the airline, not the OEM's or their products capabilities.
If NW had tweaked their requirements the 777-2X would have been the ideal a/c for them, indeed there are airlines using 777's on routes similar to what NW used their A330's and they were / are profitable, change a city pair here and there and the case is made.

Ditto the A340-XX four engine versions and the 777W, those airlines using the A340 have all their facts and figures to show that the A340 is the best a/c for them over the 777W, change a city pair here and there and same as above.

No OEM presently makes a/c that are "dogs", what determines which a/c is ultimately purchased is the who at the top of the company and what he wants to do, and like the rest of us mortals, his ultimate choice will have something to do with personality, once he has made that choice, the technical folks will ensure that thier requirements are tailored to suit the product they want to purchase.

Do I believe that OEM's ultimately change the purchasers mind, not as much as others think, maybe in years past when there were multiple OEM's but today, let's see how the lower end of the NB market shakes out, I don't expect it to be any different that how is was before Boeing and Airbus took over, its a cycle and there are now different players, but the dynamics of human nature, businnes and the aviation market is still the same.


User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5456 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 19014 times:

Add me to the list of people saying Delta will only buy twins from here on out. If there is a 77WNG, it has the inside track; otherwise I think a HGW A3510, if there ends up being one, will have the inside track.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 19):
the 767s, from an aesthetic point of view, are nasty compared to newer Airbuses and 777s, which are too big in any case to fly on long, thin routes.

Delta is apparently replacing the interiors, including bins and side panels, in the 763ER fleet, with Boeing Signature or a comparable aftermarket product. That will take care of the aesthetic problem with that fleet (and about time, too!).

767s have an unusually high number of design cycles for a widebody aircraft. The newer portions of the 763ER fleet could easily be flying for another decade or more.


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4682 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18935 times:

Quoting SkyPriorityDTW (Reply 8):
Seeing that Delta, and JV partners Air France, KLM, & Alitalia, signed a new global contract with EADS yesterday, I highly doubt their relationship with Airbus is diminished enough to not purchase any aircraft from them. In the press release, it was said that this new contract would reinforce the partnership between EADS and the JV as their number one supplier. 64% of EADS revenue comes from Airbus... so this, if anything, most definitely reinforces the relationship between Delta (and it's JV partners) and Airbus. It is also noted in this that the DL/AF/KL/AZ JV is their "preferred" alliance to cooperate with globally.

Didn't know about this contract, maybe you could post a link?



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlinegoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18521 times:

I would like to see DL go for the 77L OR the A350. I think that will best replace their 767s and 744s but really, like anyone else here, I can't really say because who knows what A&B will come up with between now and 2020. I would assume DL might give Airbus a try one day if they offer the right product for DL. Once again, there is no way to tell for sure.


From the airport with love
User currently offlinezvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 18461 times:

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 2):
Your assumption contains the logical fallacy that Delta has to replace the 744 with an aircraft of similar capacity, and that is not correct.

  

The OP contains another logical fallacy that Boeing cannot offer a replacement for 777-300ER in the next ten years. Boeing have clearly and repeatedly indicated that they are considering doing exactly that.


25 AirNZ : But no-one said they were such. Could you point me to it as I've either completely missed it (after re-reading the thread several times) or see somet
26 mayor : Perhaps I misinterpreted, this:
27 AirFrance744 : So, you are saying that the A350 can replace a 744? I didn't think that it could. Doesn't the 744 have more pax capacity than the A350? But I maybe w
28 zvezda : What BMI727 wrote means that DL have had the opportunity to buy from Airbus (cfr. the OP's explicit assumption that DL can buy only from Boeing). The
29 zvezda : Aircraft are often replaced with models that have substantially less or substantially more capacity. Most 747-400s have been replaced by A340-600s an
30 YULWinterSkies : Well, you just answered it, if they don't go with Airbus. Airbus WILL try everything possible to convince DL that the A350 is the best way to go. We
31 American 767 : It looks like the 747-8i is ruled out in Delta's future plans. They did not say the airplane is ruled out but it looks like it. They would rather look
32 MD-90 : Dunno, can you still order a new A345 or A346? Both of those aircrafts are clearly outclassed by their competition.
33 mayor : Not quite true. Back in the late 80s, when DL was looking for a new international a/c, the choice was between the MD-11 and the 747-400. Rumor back t
34 seabosdca : If this is really true at any airline, then I'd hate to be a shareholder of that airline. It may have been true in 1970 or 1980. But today, I think t
35 par13del : Really, does that explain the mass of 767's or the few 777 that they operate? The 777s came when they finally retired their tri-jets, a number of 767
36 jsquared : While I'm sure additional maintenance costs area a concern, I'd be surprised if Delta has ruled out the 747-8 just because it has 4 engines. If the e
37 seabosdca : I think you'll find that, at the aircraft acquisition stage, they are tailoring the selection of aircraft to their existing route networks, rather th
38 par13del : Absolutely won't be on a whim , a gentlemans agreement, political consideration or OEM financial incentives, I guess all that's left is the capabiliy
39 bobnwa : What has Delta said or indicated to make you so sure about the above statement? Source?
40 zvezda : There were a total of 442 747-400s delivered. I think you'll find that more than 221 are still flying, but fewer than 221 are still flying with the o
41 PanAm788 : I see them going for a 77WNG, but I'm rooting for the 748. I feel like a 787-10 wouldn't be enough and that the -11 is too far off. But who knows, the
42 American 767 : I didn't say I was so sure. I said what it LOOKED like. If I find a source about Delta's future long haul fleet plans, I will post it. I even said th
43 rb211 : What is the difference in MTOW between the 3T, A35, and the 748? Certain markets will depend solely on MTOW considering the conditions. After the JFK
44 1337Delta764 : Looks like somebody is spreading false rumors. Looking at Google search results for the past week, I found absolutely no source that confirms this ot
45 dbo861 : Or could they possibly order both the 77WNG and 787-10. 77WNG to replace the 744s and 787-10 to eventually replace the 772ERs. At that point they'll
46 SkyPriorityDTW : It's on DeltaNet... so unless if you're an employee, you don't get the luxury to see this info. Trust me, I have no reason to lie... and I also would
47 1337Delta764 : Still, it remains what actual percentage of Airbus aircraft will go to Delta. AF, KL, and AZ are longtime Airbus customers. Boeing will never let DL
48 mayor : Agree with SkyPriorityDTW....it was on DeltaNet..........thing is, I don't see where they're talking about a/c purchases....I did see where EADS empl
49 tullamarine : There is some speculation currently that, providing the JV is approved, VA may let DL takeover SYD-LAX so VA can use the released capacity to introduc
50 dbo861 : Isn't it rumored to switch to 744 once the cabins are updated?
51 Post contains images astuteman : Although recently they've indicated a willingness to put the 777NG to the back of the queue and develop an all-new "narrowbody" (or light twin) first
52 delimit : The EADS announcement was about the JV being selected as sole supplier of travel. Now, granted, the wording was a tad funny where they mentioned who w
53 msp747 : I think this is a good way to look at it. While they may not have an "exclusive" deal with Boeing anymore, they obviously get great deals and prefere
54 SkyPriorityDTW : It noted in there that it "strengthened" the relationship between the JV partners and EADS. Again, Airbus makes up 64% of EADS' revenue. While this e
55 1337Delta764 : Well, the other three JV members are longtime Airbus customers, and I guess majority rules. $90 million will probably only get DL a single A320. Boei
56 delimit : Actually KL has only very, very recently bought Airbus.
57 Post contains images A342 : You mean some 30 years ago? Boy, I'd really like to know what "a long time ago" would be in your timescale.
58 BMI727 : I think he is referring to their A330s which have been delivered recently.
59 A342 : Sure he is, but that doesn't change the fact that KL ordered Airbus aircraft some 30 years ago, does it?
60 Post contains images delimit : And then there was a very long gap. But honestly, I couldn't remember whether or not they had 300s. Should have checked first. It was 310s apparently.
61 Post contains links 328JET : It is nearly 9 years ago that KLM signed the LOI for the A332s: KLM Buys 6 Airbus 330-200 (by Skippy777 Jul 22 2002 in Civil Aviation) Amazing how th
62 mayor : If you were able to read the announcement on DeltaNet, you should have realized that this is nothing more than an exclusive, corporate travel contrac
63 AirNZ : In which case are the A330's a figment of my imagination (and everyone else's in aviation)? Must be a good figment as I've actually flown on them....
64 Post contains images A342 : A hell of a figment indeed. You might notice that I was referring to KLM's A310-200s which joined the fleet in 1983.
65 BoeingGuy : True. They recently added the A330 to their fleet. I'm also told by our Boeing pilots that Boeing and AF have an excellent working relationship, at l
66 SkyPriorityDTW : Seeing that I'm a Communication major, I'm more than capable of comprehending what the release on DeltaNet stated... but thanks for your concern. Wha
67 tistpaa727 : OK, so let me get this straight...an exclusive corporate travel contract is signed and somehow we get to DL purchasing Airbus planes. So, by that meas
68 Post contains images PGNCS : Yeah, so? Airbus won't try to beat Boeing's prices to gain a new and important customer like Delta? It works both ways. Oh big surprise that a Boeing
69 mayor : Being a communications major, maybe you should have worded, this, differently: This agreement doesn't say anything about preferential a/c purchase, b
70 BMI727 : The fact that you have to recognize is that it has nothing to do with Anderson or the merger. This has been the case since 1997 or so and yet Delta h
71 1337Delta764 : NW ordered their first A320s in the 1980s, well before Anderson was CEO. There is absolutely no proof that Anderson has a preference for Airbus (yes,
72 Post contains images KGRB : Too late for that. How do you know that? Do you have some source in Toulouse? Besides, whatever happened before the merger is moot now, because Airbu
73 1337Delta764 : Just because DL inhertited some Airbus aircraft into the fleet doesn't mean that DL is forced to buy more Airbus aircraft. DL is free to continue to
74 Post contains images delimit : Then for god's sake, please look back on the class where you learned about paragraphs and their function. Stating that this is a press release about
75 Post contains images SkyPriorityDTW : The "old" Delta thought everything was great before hand... until Northwest came in. This is exactly what I'm trying to point out to you and others.
76 1337Delta764 : It seems that the general perception by Airbus fans is that DL was that Boeing forced DL to sign the agreement, as if Boeing's CEO was holding a gun
77 OA412 : I understand from your previous posts that you simply don't want to see DL order Airbus, but DL is going to order whichever aircraft is best for DL's
78 1337Delta764 : Why? If an exclusivity contract can give DL better deals, it would actually be a wise business decision. That is why DL signed the agreement in the f
79 AADC10 : DL is not "destined" to order anything in particular. They are only "destined" to order something. Like UA, NW purchased the 744s back when several Pa
80 BMI727 : Because the EU forced Boeing to throw out the exclusivity clause, and for Delta executives to knowingly make a deal not in the financial best interes
81 CXB77L : Ok, I'm curious. What authority does the EU have to effectively void the agreement between two corporations based outside of the EU? If it had been U
82 BMI727 : The EU (or whatever the authority at that time was) forced Boeing to sign an agreement to not enforce the exclusivity clauses with Delta, American, a
83 EK413 : Relationships between manufacture & airline are always broken regardless of the history between the two... QF shocked the world when they placed
84 mayor : I think what everyone forgets about about the "exclusivity" agreement and the "gentleman's" agreement is that DL was trying to do a fleet simplificati
85 CXB77L : That I understand, but ... Isn't MD a US based company? A merger between two US companies would be governed by US rather than EU law, right? Sorry, I
86 Burkhard : Which means that AF has the best connections to Toulouse, nothing more. True, and question is if Airbus will be willing to really dog fight for such
87 zvezda : If two merged companies would like to do business e.g. sell aircraft in the European Union, then they need to satisfy the Competition Directorate of
88 Post contains images CHRISBA777ER : The DL execs will buy Boeing - in the DL fanboy world. American is best, right? Everything outside the CONUS is darkness, terrorism, barbarism and Dar
89 columba : Well, why would you. The 777 is a great plane and AF has 60 of them. I guess it is their largest widebody fleet. They would not have ordered so many
90 Burkhard : If Delta needs extra capacity for the long range ( = how will the US-Japan market evolve after this years events? ), a hand full of 77W make a lot of
91 delimit : I really don't understand why this is consistently discounted and the gentlemen's agreement bs always put forth. It's like people are somehow constit
92 BMI727 : You mention it yourself: If Airbus hasn't seen fit to give Delta a better deal than Boeing in the last 14 years, I don't see why they would now. Not
93 Post contains images par13del : Well, if the OEM build commonality into the frames making training and maintenance simple, obviously they do not know what you know, the primary reas
94 CXB77L : Thank you for that. Cleared it up very nicely for me.
95 delimit : Sorry I should have been more specific, and perhaps I am using making a distincition other people aren't. People seem to get hung up on the "gentleme
96 Post contains images CHRISBA777ER : Sarcasm my good friend. My point was that some people are convinced that DL will be all-Boeing because it is all-American etc but fail to understand
97 par13del : Which in my book lends credance to my earlier point that the capabilities of the individial a/c are not the primary reasons for purchase selection. C
98 CHRISBA777ER : Broadly I'd agree with that - especially as for DL's purposes, the offerings in each class are so close in capability, with one's strengths in one ar
99 1337Delta764 : I don't know why all the Airbus fanboys love to ignore BMI727's posts. Ask any DL employee, unbiased, and they will agree that Boeing has a huge advan
100 Post contains images KGRB : Yeah, 'cause you're not biased at all... Do you have a source for this wonderful tidbit? Nobody is saying that. It's just that some here believe that
101 Post contains images astuteman : And that's intended to represent a disadvantage for Airbus at Delta? Rgds
102 mayor : Not according to the DL release: "The new agreement provides employees of EADS and its affiliates discounts on flights from France, Germany, U.K., Sp
103 bobnwa : Are saying that if the DL management had a preference for Airbus, they would want to pay the pilots who flew the airbus more money than the pilots wh
104 328JET : I could not see Delta ordering the B77W or B748I anymore. The decision will most likely be made between the A35J and B777NNG.
105 BMI727 : That's not what I said. But Airbus won't be getting any orders because of Anderson or some odd desire he might have to prove that Northwest was someh
106 mayor : I think you misunderstand.....all I was clarifying was that the agreement between EADS and Skyteam had nothing, so far as I can tell from what info I
107 BMI727 : I think that any attempt to construe the "No. 1 supplier" quote into a preference or foretelling of an Airbus order is grasping at straws. It's just
108 Post contains images mayor : I don't know how anyone could construe the agreement as anything but a travel agreement.
109 Post contains images CHRISBA777ER : Sure... because you are 100% unbiased, right? We cannot also imply that Anderson/The DL board has an automatic preference for Boeing either, which is
110 par13del : Airbus and Boeing have no choice but to up the ante, the US is one of the largest markets in the world for commercial a/c, and with the consolidation
111 SA7700 : This thread will be locked for further contributions as it has unfortunately been hijacked and steered into an off-topic, childish flame fest. Rgds SA
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