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Qantas Looking At B777F And 747-8F  
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4162 posts, RR: 89
Posted (3 years 5 months 10 hours ago) and read 16033 times:
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Flightglobal are reporting that Qantas is interested in the 777F and 747-8F,

Qantas is mulling a plan to lease Boeing 747-8 or 777-200LR freighters, according to sources familiar with the matter.

The lease would likely be for a single-digit number of aircraft and will be announced in the coming months. It is unlikely to signal interest in passenger variants of the two aircraft.

The carrier is understood not to be interested in the Airbus A330-200 freighter.

"We are always looking at potential fleet options," a Qantas spokesman says, declining to comment further.


Source

It would be quite interesting after so many years to see the 777 operated by the QF Group albeit as a freighter.


Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4833 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 10 hours ago) and read 15997 times:

It is interesting, and despite the comment suggesting its unlikely pax versions are in the offering, it does make them 'more' likely.


56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineflyPBA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 9 hours ago) and read 15831 times:

of particular note ...

Quote:
Perhaps on the mind of aircraft spotters is what livery the potential new freighters will sport. They may have the same partial Qantas livery that the group's new 767 freighter sports. Chief executive Alan Joyce explained of the 767 freighter's livery: "Because it's a separate company, we decided just to have it as a white tail with the Qantas logo...we haven't had any freighters before painted in Qantas colours so we wanted to have something as a step towards Qantas but not going to the same passenger scheme."


User currently offlinevaustralie From Australia, joined Jul 2010, 182 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 9 hours ago) and read 15707 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
It would be quite interesting after so many years to see the 777 operated by the QF Group albeit as a freighter.

Sure would... I hope they buy them  



a346
User currently offlinedfwrevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 8 hours ago) and read 15501 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
It would be quite interesting after so many years to see the 777 operated by the QF Group albeit as a freighter.


It is their destiny  


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4833 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 8 hours ago) and read 15481 times:

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 4):

It is their destiny

You don't know how true this is.... seriously the nickname for the previous QF CEO was the aforementioned character



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 8 hours ago) and read 15390 times:

Air Freight to Australia is a bit of an untapped market, there are lots of destinations that can be served that arent already and Australia's long distance from anywhere deters sea travel as it takes a lot longer. I would love to see a fleet of 777F and 748F in the QF fleet.

User currently offlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1570 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 8 hours ago) and read 15388 times:

Whilst this is a possibility I believe it would be a wet lease only from Atlas or similar. QF are unlikely to want to build up the infrastructure (spares/training/sims etc) for a completely new type for only a handful of frames.


717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7231 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 15250 times:

Why would they not be interested in the A330 freighter, they already operate the type so commonality exist.
They are removing their 747's from service and do not now operate the 777 so a whole sub-fleet and all the necessary infrastructure just for cargo?


User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4769 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 15167 times:
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Quoting par13del (Reply 8):
Why would they not be interested in the A330 freighter, they already operate the type so commonality exist.

Maybe they need something bigger or with longer legs?? You also 't can't get a GE powered A332F.

[Edited 2011-04-26 18:17:48]

User currently offline9V-SVC From Singapore, joined Oct 2001, 1797 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 15168 times:

I suppose the A332F is too small for their liking?


Airliners is the wings of my life.
User currently offlinewinglets747 From Australia, joined Mar 2007, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 15036 times:
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Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 4):
It is their destiny

QF is the only member of the 777 Working Together team who does not operate, directly or indirectly, the triple.

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 6):
Air Freight to Australia is a bit of an untapped market,

The prime freight market for QF isn't to/from Australia but from China to the US, on which they have traffic rights.



Stay hungry. Stay foolish.
User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4990 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 6 hours ago) and read 14946 times:

This means , I believe, that they will look to operate their own metal. Is it Atlas that they have a wet charter with at this time? What is their present route? I know Toledo OH is in the loop. Any thoughts on what their typical freight density is? The 777F is pretty impressive from China to MEM for FX.

User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7231 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 6 hours ago) and read 14936 times:

Quoting trex8 (Reply 9):
Maybe they need something bigger or with longer legs??

Definately a possibility but the article indicates newer a/c not conversions, I take that to mean a long term commitment, in which case 747's will be gone, and A380's and A350's almost an entire Airbus fleet, the 787's are for their subsidiary carrier.

Quoting trex8 (Reply 9):
You also 't can't get a GE powered A332F.

Won't be getting them on the A380 or A350s inbound to the fleet either, a/c using them are going bye bye.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4990 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 6 hours ago) and read 14877 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 13):
Won't be getting them on the A380 or A350s inbound to the fleet either, a/c using them are going bye bye.

what A350's ?


User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7231 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 6 hours ago) and read 14827 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 14):
what A350's ?

They won't be replacing 747's one for one with A380's, they stated they are not interested in 777's or 748's, the 767's will also need replacing so ............unless they will poach 787's from their subsidiary?


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31006 posts, RR: 86
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 6 hours ago) and read 14826 times:
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Since Atlas Air already handles their 747 freighters via a wet lease, it makes sense they would be QF's choice for a 747-8F wet lease. But Atlas Air is a pure 747 operator, so would they also take on the 777F and A332F, or would QF wet lease them from someone else?

User currently offlineAeroplaneFreak From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 6 hours ago) and read 14647 times:
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I would not be surprised if FedEx or UPS change from SYD to MEL. It surely must cheaper to fly into MEL?

User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3948 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 6 hours ago) and read 14531 times:

Guggenheim seem to have their fingers in a lot of pies as a 777F lessor so they may come from them, but I reckon Atlas 748Fs are more likely although that doesn't explain the talk of the livery. As far as I know the current 744Fs from Atlas are in Atlas' livery.

User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 5 hours ago) and read 14466 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 15):
They won't be replacing 747's one for one with A380's, they stated they are not interested in 777's or 748's, the 767's will also need replacing so ............unless they will poach 787's from their subsidiary?

I've always understood that -8's would be operated by QF and the -9's by JetStar (or vice-versa). In other words, I always understood that they would be operated by both.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 5 hours ago) and read 14064 times:

Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Reply 17):
It surely must cheaper to fly into MEL?

and curfew free.

There's enormous potential for the southern end of Tullamarine to become a tri-modal freight interchange: air, road and rail (as the national Standard Guage network runs not 2km from the airport). I remember reading 3-4 years ago about making Tullamarine the country's air freight hub - but there doesn't seem to be much being done to make that happen.

Planes can fly in at 1am, unload, go through customs and then be on a train to Adelaide or Sydney by 4am, arriving at the destination before COB that day.


User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4006 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 5 hours ago) and read 13901 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 16):
Since Atlas Air already handles their 747 freighters via a wet lease, it makes sense they would be QF's choice for a 747-8F wet lease.

That would probably be their only option, as the other 748F customers either do dry leases or are cargo operators on their own. Then again perhaps someone like Cargolux might let itself be convinced to operate for Qantas.

Quoting RobK (Reply 18):
As far as I know the current 744Fs from Atlas are in Atlas' livery.

One of them has a "operated for Qantas" sticker, but other than that, it is indeed a regular Atlas livery.

Quoting RobK (Reply 18):
Guggenheim seem to have their fingers in a lot of pies as a 777F lessor so they may come from them

I thought Guggenheim had only three 777Fs on order, all of which already contracted out to TNT Airways. Besides, Qantas has a history of not operating freighter aircraft themselves, and Guggenheim does dry leases only that I know of. Southern Air Transport might be a more likely candidate, they already operate two aircraft for Thai Cargo. Omni has picked up two ex Air India birds that they could convert and turn into freighters as well.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 35
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 13827 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 13):
the 787's are for their subsidiary carrier.
Quoting par13del (Reply 15):
unless they will poach 787's from their subsidiary?

Don't know where the idea comes from that 'Qantas proper' will not operate 787s?

Sure, the first batch goes to Jetstar - because they have more long thin routes at the moment. But Qantas management has made their interest clear in owning up to 100 X 787s, equipping Qantas as well. In fact, as well as 50 firm orders, they have already taken 50 additional options/rights.

"Qantas has selected the Boeing 787 as the cornerstone of its domestic and international fleet renewal program. Under the fleet plan, the Qantas Group will acquire up to 100 Boeing 787 aircraft. The first 50 Boeing 787 Dreamliners are expected to be delivered in mid-2012.

"The Boeing 787 provides breakthrough technology, enabling Qantas to fly further to more point-to-point destinations throughout the world."


http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/aircraft-boeing-787/global/en

Remains to be seen whether, in future years, they eventually show interest in passenger 748s, 777s, and/or A350s as well.

[Edited 2011-04-26 20:57:45]


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offline328JET From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 13749 times:

Nice quote from QF link:

"The first 50 Boeing 787 Dreamliners are expected to be delivered in mid-2012."


Wow - 50 airplanes in mid 2012....LOL


User currently offlineMileHighOffice From Australia, joined Jun 2010, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 13724 times:

Quoting winglets747 (Reply 11):
The prime freight market for QF isn't to/from Australia but from China to the US, on which they have traffic rights.


   Amazing but true. The 767s can do Australia to NZ and Asia and they do have an Atlas 74F that operates out of MEL and SYD regularly, but the big $$$ is taking technology freight from Asia to the US on QF tagged Atlas 74Fs.


25 gemuser : It is amazingly true, but they are 5th freedom rights, not 7th, so flights must orginate in Australia. Which suggests B748F operated by Atlas. Gemuse
26 ha763 : I have already heard from the mechanics that service Atlas on its non-military stops in HNL, that Atlas plans to fly the 747-8F to HNL. This means tha
27 MileHighOffice : Yes I think that's a good bet and the most practical solution. Sure would be nice to see a 77F wearing a red tail though haha!
28 haggis73 : Atlas have told AIAL that they will bringing the B748 though AKL. Gate (Bay) 83 (one of the cargo gates) is due to be widened to take code F aircraft.
29 EK413 : So would I... Finger's are crossed only hoping it will happen... Probably they realised the B777's in the end wasn't the workhorse they had been sear
30 zeke : I agree, Atlas already have a similar deal in place for BA. Probably due to having enough 767 available for conversion when the 787s arrive. Can you
31 behramjee : It would probably be cheaper for QF to convert some of their B 744s into freighters or lease some B 744Fs rather than waste a lot of money leasing or
32 777way : Silly.
33 Post contains links NAV20 : Only Wiki, but these tables (scroll down to 'Fleet') seem to make Qantas' current intentions fairly clear. 1. Jetstar will get 15 788s - presumably e
34 Post contains images frigatebird : Or A350-1000 sized IMO, if QF ever orders the 77W, it woný be the current one, but a NG version - in whatever form it appears. But it better match t
35 zeke : I would not be using Wiki as evidence to support a point of view in this case. The Qantas group (i.e. the combined Qantas and Jetstar entities within
36 EK413 : I have always argued this point and will stick to it... QF have a large gap between the B787 & A380... Let's wait and see how the B787 fleet pans
37 Post contains images NAV20 : With respect, Zeke, it's all we have to work on for the moment. Except of course for:- [Edited 2011-04-27 07:26:19]
38 worldliner : Hopefully they opt for them! Would be great to finally see those aircraft in QF livery, even if they are cargo! Honestly its about time QF ordered som
39 Post contains images mogandoCI : The irony ! They screwed Boeing by not ordering the 777 after wasting Boeing's valuable time, so in return, tons of Asian and Middle-eastern carriers
40 NAV20 : Entirely agreed, frigatebird. Except that the A350-1000 only has around 75 orders in total and is at least four years off production - even if the sm
41 Post contains images Stitch : The 787-9 is going to give QF a plane with capacity and performance similar to the 777-200ER with not-insignificantly better operating costs. So in a
42 ATA L1011 : Does DFW have a gate in Terminal D capable to service the A380 without compromising nearby gates or is an A380 capable gate in the works their?
43 sunrisevalley : QF were pushing Boeing five or more years ago for something like a 787-8LR and more recently a 787-10. Clearly they have identified route segments th
44 trex8 : 777LR/ER launched Feb 2000, entered service April 2004. Between launch and EIS the 777LR/ER racked up exactly 76 77W and two 77L orders per Boeing we
45 ikramerica : It's not as cut and dry. The 77W as offered in 2000 was far inferior to what Boeing delivered by 1 year in service. The mature 77W was 10% better on
46 328JET : LOL !!!! The last part of your statement made my day - and this is not the first time by you...
47 328JET : Stitch, that is YOUR way of thinking only... Name some airlines, which will replace their existing B772s with ordered B789s.
48 Stitch : It's a pretty logical thought, however. A 777-200ER cabin is 49m long. A 787-9 cabin is 49m long. Both can take 9-abreast in Economy. Both can do 1+2
49 frigatebird : Well, being at least 4 years off EIS, it's way too early to tell whether it will be a commercial success or failure. Lots of orders can happen betwee
50 328JET : SIA will use the B789 regionally and the A359 on longer routes. And before, the B772 will be replaced with A333s and afterwards the A333s with B789/3
51 Stitch : But they can have that now with the 777-300ER. Not to mention in a four-class long-haul QF configuration, neither the 777-300ER nor the A350-1000 (es
52 PITrules : I can't speak for FedEx, but unfortunately we will not be seeing UPS at MEL anytime soon. UPS aircraft only carry a fraction of UPS' total volume; th
53 blueflyer : Three gates were built A380-ready.
54 zeke : They have, they are not listed that way. The way the contracts have been written is that the models can be swapped around.
55 Post contains images lightsaber : Well played sir. As much as I like the 777F's economics, for QF, the 748F seems like a better fit... I'll be excited to see which way they go. Which
56 trex8 : Exactly which is why I was saying counting the orders in the 4 years before EIS means little. The A350XWB was launched in 06 , 2 years before the GFC
57 EK413 : Conservative is the word... QF have always been conservative with their fleet and they order aircraft based on their needs and not what A.Netter's wa
58 Stitch : They do not, and there are no currently listed UFOs. So it should be a new order or taking over the delivery of another customer.
59 gemuser : Are you sure about this? US carriers have full 5th freedom rights from Australia to anywhere, under the new Open Skies agreement and they have had th
60 PITrules : I'm fairly certain both FX and 5X both leave SYD without any local revenue. Perhaps the latest agreement does not include cargo? I'll try to get more
61 tayser : on what mode? Air? maybe. Everything else: MEL. Melbourne is quite literally at the centre of the logistics chain in Australia - just look at a map o
62 jupiter2 : Both companies have large sorting facilities in SYD and with the schedule they operate, they can have their aircraft unloaded, the freight sorted (as
63 PITrules : MEL may be at the center, but as far as air freight that does little good for a flight coming in from one end (ie from the US), because now you are b
64 Post contains links and images tayser : as I said in my example above... planes are not restricted on the times they get into MEL, clearing local customs and then can be on another mode or o
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