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Smisek Speech - Stanford Business  
User currently offlineKFitz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5796 times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysDQQugfFsU

Here is Smisek giving a wonderful lecture about leadership, and the new United.

On Industry:

-Everybody who touches an airline makes money - that's why Ch. 11 results in a reconstitution v. liquidation. Nobody wants to die

-Any idiot can get an operating certificate, over capacity which drives down fares, unprofitable

-Heavily regulated, deregulated business there is. Safety regulations make sense, but consumer protection mixed with regulation in oppressive ways

-Antiquated, slow ATC system from 1950s, need to invest as a nation. Bad weather delays. If planes stuck on taxi way, fined outrageously per customer.

-Government outlawed charges based on fuel price per flight.

-Subject to external events most businesses are not (Volcanic eruption, SARs)

-Fuel prices hard to handle, volatile. $25,000/minute at new United. "Could buy a brand new Airbus A380 ("that airplane that spins little regional jets around like tops") a week, and throw it away for the price spent on fuel.

-Doing better than in 2008 ($172 peak then v. $136 today). Better job of pricing, adjusting capacity

-A technology company with wings, a data rich business.

On merger:

-Heavily unionized business, own sets of difficulties. Same union representation, different representation, not unionized at CO, harmonization a long-term important process. Earn trust over time.

-2 different carriers with 2 different culture. Important in service business. 87,000 employees need a vision, and a plan that is understandable. "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there". Want to believe in a future, but need to show how to get to the future, show everyone where they fit in, how contributing to future. Using CO's one page, 16 year old plan, fits on "single iPad page", simple and clear. Marketing, operating, financial, people plan.

-Loyalty program more members than citizens of France worldwide


- As a leader:

"intimately involved in portions of business". "I reserve right as CEO to put my nose in whatever I want to form a business perspective. There are leaders who are at 40,000 ft. all the time - what I would call the business roundtable. The talking heads on TV, make broad generic statements - but don't actually know what's going on in their business. You can get isolated very quickly as you ride up through the ranks".

-Insecure people won't hire good people because they want to be better than people under them. Smisek: "go out and find very best people, better at your own job that you will ever be - and then leave them alone. Nothing more dispirited to people who work for you than to micromanage". "Make sure they have room to do the job, trust people, let them make mistakes; Let them run with it. You will find 99/100 they will do good". but: "Keep me informed, don't sandbag me".


-On Culture:

"I had to watch 8 separate 'spot-the-terrorist' videos [to get SIDA card], an unpleasant experience. Valuable to go airside, to any break room to get to know people over time, mix with people you are working with.

- "On every airplane I go up to the flight deck before the airplane takes off and I talk to the pilots. If I do it in flight, tehy lock the doo rand they won't let me out." "Limit to what I can do!".

-"I work all the galleys and talk to all the flight attendants, I know thousand and thousands of people."

-"This is valuable as a manger, because that way people who report to you can't bullshit you. I can go one or two or three levels deep and get the real information. So people who work for me don't bullshit me because they know I can dig in the organization".

-"Most important thing you can bring as a leader is the culture of the business"

-"We have two different cultures at these airlines and I'm trying to bring together a culture. And it's even more difficult because this particular transaction we did at United Continental was a merger of equals. Where we at Continental didn't acquire United and United didn't acquire Continental. We're trying to bring together the best of both, and the best of both cultures.

"I've always lived by life by two rules my mommy taught me - always treat others the way out want to be treated [dignity and respect, being direct and honest, thanking people personally], and never tell a lie [

-"When unions make a demand for a contract that you know will not be, knowing the long run interests of the company, will be harmful to the rest of their co-workers, explain that you will never do that - and use the word never, it's a tough word, but a true word. You'll never do a contract that wil jeopardize the fute of the company or the coworkers. Important to give that tough message. "

-"You build a company where people enjoy coming to work everyday. Management needs to earn trust, but also learn to trust management. Even in a unionized workforce, you can build a relationship where the work force thinks of themselves as employees of the enterprise first, and union members second. If you have it flipped, where it's union first and enterprise second, that's a path to ruin".


On personal advice:

-"I've had a real checkered career. I've done a lot of different things in my life. I didn't think I'd be in the airline business, and I certainly didn't think I'd be running the world's largest airline. What I tell people, is follow your passion. Don't go into investment banking or consulting because everybody's doing it. Go for your passion, because money is important, but beyond a certain amount is really enjoying coming to work, enjoying what you do, and believing in the future of the company. I've been in jobs where I was unhappy, and it's a lot more fun to be a company where you enjoy what you're doing, you like the people you work with.

-"Follow your passion, ignore the herd, and be yourself."

"A lot people thinks of business people being sort of stuffed suits, but the reality is that the best thing you can do and the way you can advance your own career is simply be yourself. I like to joke 'If you're an obnoxious liar, you're not going to make it in business' - not that kind of be yourself."

[Edited 2011-04-30 20:11:46]

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15744 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5771 times:

Quoting KFitz (Thread starter):
-Any idiot can get an operating certificate

So why hasn't Family Airlines started flying yet?

Quoting KFitz (Thread starter):
"I reserve right as CEO to put my nose in whatever I want to form a business perspective

Probably a good point of view.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinewn700driver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5726 times:

87000 people just being themselves huh? I'm sure that will work just fine. This comes off like another bag of mid 90s cliches... Nice try though.

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15744 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5647 times:

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 2):
This comes off like another bag of mid 90s cliches... Nice try though.

Funny considering that Continental made quite the turnaround during the mid-90s.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4506 posts, RR: 33
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5521 times:

Quoting KFitz (Thread starter):
-Any idiot can get an operating certificate, over capacity which drives down fares, unprofitable

In other words, competition from airlines with lower cost structures--something no legacy CEO wants. Smisek is playing the same violin concerto legacy CEO's always love to play. "Overcapacity" is the complaint from airlines with higher cost structures.

Sorry the world isn't the way Smisek wants it. Life does stink sometimes.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlinewn700driver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5385 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):

Funny considering that Continental made quite the turnaround during the mid-90s.

Indeed they did. But the above sounds like the forced recitations of someone who's on board for the paycheck. Not a bad thing, to be sure, but really, really, uninspired. Kind of like how every company in america is about 'respect' & 'valuing our team members...' You know, crap companies say pretty much because they have to...

Yeah, what Bethune did in the '90s was pretty great. But almost every airline does those things now, hell the argument can be made that US Airways actually does a better job of it (the pay more for things like triple plays, etc...) It's just not that special anymore is all. Add to that the fact that the new UA, like the old UA, really doesn't seem to have it's head on straight, what with all of its conflicting "visions", etc...


User currently offlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1539 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4119 times:
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Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 4):
Overcapacity" is the complaint from airlines with higher cost structures.

Yes that is so true and so well put!! High cost airlines love to preach capacity restraint as it is in their best interest to fly less people and charge them more-----the LCC airlines let average folks fly and just not the elites among us---AA is the worst at trying to cut capacity all the time which (if you think about it) has no impact on their bottom line if the remaining people just pay more! AA can keep shrinking until they have one plane and one passenger if that passenger is rich enough!!

Where would we be if not for the LCC's.......driving our cars great distances (air fare is too high) is where we would be.....


User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2191 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3962 times:

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 5):
Indeed they did. But the above sounds like the forced recitations of someone who's on board for the paycheck. Not a bad thing, to be sure, but really, really, uninspired. Kind of like how every company in america is about 'respect' & 'valuing our team members...' You know, crap companies say pretty much because they have to...

At the end of the day, he is still far superior as a CEO than many of the other guys out there, namely Tilton, and at present, Arpey.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineKFitz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3962 times:

without LCC's? maybe an industry who stands a chance at appropriately pricing their service so as to recoup their cost of capital.

User currently offlineusairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3404 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3917 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 7):
At the end of the day, he is still far superior as a CEO than many of the other guys out there, namely Tilton, and at present, Arpey.

Let's give it some time. He hasn't been CEO of CO and now UA/CO for that long and to be honest he has stripped down more than he has added. I like to see what he does in the next 1-3 years with regards to the rest of the merger.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 6):
Yes that is so true and so well put!! High cost airlines love to preach capacity restraint as it is in their best interest to fly less people and charge them more

  

Reducing capacity is a quick and easy way to raise fares without needing an explanation. Forget fuel surcharges, drop frequencies and replace a mainline jet with a 170 or CR7 and then fly that 70 seater at 90%+ LF and force just as many people to buy last minute B or full Y fares.


User currently offlinewn700driver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3831 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 7):

At the end of the day, he is still far superior as a CEO than many of the other guys out there, namely Tilton, and at present, Arpey.

Tilton, without a doubt. Arpey, I wouldn't be so sure. People don't like Arpey, but that's just because we haven't seen an Icahn or Lorenzo in a while. Smisek, you need to remember, inherited a very well run airline with no real problems. All he had to do was stay the course, which of course, he has not. Instead he paired up with UA, who's future is anything but certain. I realize there's an awful lot of afterglow right now, but that was also present when PAA took over National & when AA bought TWA. We'll see how wise this was.

Arpey has one had one hot mess over there in Fort Worth, and from day one. He's kept AA out of BK, managed to start a fleet update, and keep wages and staffing at industry highs at an airline that vociferiously opposes any form of efficiency. Not too bad I would say.


User currently offlineKFitz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3611 times:

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 10):
All he had to do was stay the course, which of course, he has not. Instead he paired up with UA, who's future is anything but certain.

This is just factually inaccurate. United was going to merge with US, leaving CO's future as "anything but certain". Don't take it from me, Smisek has stated this repeatedly.

Not to mention, UA was better positioned than most anybody, including CO, to reap the benefits of a rebounding recovery, their strategic interests placed in tier one business capitals, using 3-cabin/all widebody service on 100% of the intl. route network. They were disproportionately affected more than their less premium-intensive peers, CO included, when business demand dropped. But I will just say this myth purported by those who hold a bias/grudge/axe to grind that UA was somehow in awful condition, ready to fail without CO by their side is really unfounded hyperbole. United even outperformed CO financially and operationally in late 08, and all of 09. Their house was finally in order when the merger was announced, again, another admittance straight from the horse's mouth.


User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3567 times:

How funny, he complains that anybody can get a certificate and fly (free market?) but then on another hand complains about too much regulation and not enough free market allowing his company to do well.

User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4506 posts, RR: 33
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3458 times:

Quoting KFitz (Reply 8):
without LCC's? maybe an industry who stands a chance at appropriately pricing their service so as to recoup their cost of capital.

LCC's seem better able, more often, to price their product as to recoup the cost of their capital and make a profit (though legacies did well last year, and would have been much better this past month with reasonably-priced oil).

That's legacies' problem, and it's called the free market. If you don't like it, complain to investors, who fund the continued existence of legacies. Blaming the consumer is a red herring.

Quoting 413X3 (Reply 12):
How funny, he complains that anybody can get a certificate and fly (free market?) but then on another hand complains about too much regulation and not enough free market allowing his company to do well.

Again, the usual violin concerto from legacies: don't regulate us and drive up costs, but don't allow free competition that forces us to discipline our costs.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlinewn700driver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3301 times:

Quoting KFitz (Reply 11):

This is just factually inaccurate. United was going to merge with US, leaving CO's future as "anything but certain". Don't take it from me, Smisek has stated this repeatedly.

Wrong. What CO actually said, repeatedly, was that they were fine to go either way. Unfortunately, in their case now, the choices made were... unwise. Shacking up with UA was a good idea and an excellent way to gain a strong int'l network... But only in a universe where DL doesn't exist. Had they done this deal seven or eight years ago, (which they really couldn't have as UA was a breath away from extinction at the time), they'd be in a great position. But, as they have said, they are going after a market where yields are greater and capacity is lower.

Now I'm a rocket surgeon or anything; multivariable calculus was as far as I ever got. But chasing a dwindling market that is already well served by other carriers to begin with, while increasing per flight costs, during a fuel crisis, with the largest fleet in existence, in the middle of what will probably be prolonged recession, is, to put it mildly, effing stupid. The fact is that there is simply not room for another DL, completely regardless of who's running things. There's barely room for DL & AA as it is now, but that's another story.

Quoting KFitz (Reply 11):
United even outperformed CO financially and operationally in late 08, and all of 09. Their house was finally in order when the merger was announced, again, another admittance straight from the horse's mouth.

Two or three quarters in the black don't excuse a record breaking bankruptcy, and thirty plus years of checker-boarding mediocrity and outright failure. We need to look at where they are going over the next few years to really see anything.

But, if the here and now is all that matters... How has UA done for 2011 so far, if we want to go with only recent figures? How has WN? AS? This doesn't look to be a good year to be a giant legacy...

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 13):

Again, the usual violin concerto from legacies: don't regulate us and drive up costs, but don't allow free competition that forces us to discipline our costs

Yup. I'll be the first to admit that I have very mixed feeling about LCCs and what they have done to the industry (vis a vis making pretty much all airlines dependent on low-yield high volume configurations --whether some legacies like to admit it or pretend otherwise...), but whining about it to the gov't will hardly make any of them competitive.


User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3246 times:

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 14):
Wrong. What CO actually said, repeatedly, was that they were fine to go either way.

Really...are you so sure about that?? The words "ugly bride" spring to mind, words that came from Smiseks mouth when he chased after UA when UA was in merger talks with US. CO did not want to be left behind as you put it as they would have been at a massive disadvantage. Thats very clear to me that they were not happy "either way" as you so put it. Can you quote a source for those comments. Fro the record I am glas Smisek did chase as I think this is a great combination.

Quoting KFitz (Reply 11):
This is just factually inaccurate. United was going to merge with US, leaving CO's future as "anything but certain". Don't take it from me, Smisek has stated this repeatedly.

Not to mention, UA was better positioned than most anybody, including CO, to reap the benefits of a rebounding recovery, their strategic interests placed in tier one business capitals, using 3-cabin/all widebody service on 100% of the intl. route network. They were disproportionately affected more than their less premium-intensive peers, CO included, when business demand dropped. But I will just say this myth purported by those who hold a bias/grudge/axe to grind that UA was somehow in awful condition, ready to fail without CO by their side is really unfounded hyperbole. United even outperformed CO financially and operationally in late 08, and all of 09. Their house was finally in order when the merger was announced, again, another admittance straight from the horse's mouth.

  


User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1045 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3187 times:

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 10):
Smisek, you need to remember, inherited a very well run airline with no real problems. All he had to do was stay the course, which of course, he has not.
Quoting KFitz (Reply 11):
This is just factually inaccurate. United was going to merge with US, leaving CO's future as "anything but certain". Don't take it from me, Smisek has stated this repeatedly.

Actually, Larry did not support the merger and they knew Jeff would make it happen. Therefore, by default, Jeff got Larry's job and a pretty well run airline that stayed Gordon's course before Jeff. All Jeff has done is remove meals, expand e-plus, merge and relocate. All big time moves, we'll know in 2-3 years if they were right. Let's discuss in 2014.


User currently offlineslider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6816 posts, RR: 34
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3032 times:

Quoting KFitz (Thread starter):
Smisek: "go out and find very best people, better at your own job that you will ever be - and then leave them alone. Nothing more dispirited to people who work for you than to micromanage". "Make sure they have room to do the job, trust people, let them make mistakes; Let them run with it. You will find 99/100 they will do good". but: "Keep me informed, don't sandbag me".

Someone needs to tell the UA folks below Jeff this.


User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3138 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2998 times:

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 14):
Now I'm a rocket surgeon or anything

Sorry, but that's really funny!
Like me, I'm one sandwich short of a full deck.   

-Rampart


User currently offlineusairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3404 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2983 times:

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 15):
Really...are you so sure about that?? The words "ugly bride" spring to mind, words that came from Smiseks mouth when he chased after UA when UA was in merger talks with US.

Because look where is now, he is now CEO of an airline twice the size of what he had 1-2 years ago, I can assure you his ego was in play let alone the $ signs floating above his head.

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 16):
Actually, Larry did not support the merger and they knew Jeff would make it happen. Therefore, by default, Jeff got Larry's job and a pretty well run airline that stayed Gordon's course before Jeff. All Jeff has done is remove meals, expand e-plus, merge and relocate. All big time moves, we'll know in 2-3 years if they were right. Let's discuss in 2014.

Spot on

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 10):
Arpey has one had one hot mess over there in Fort Worth, and from day one. He's kept AA out of BK, managed to start a fleet update, and keep wages and staffing at industry highs at an airline that vociferiously opposes any form of efficiency. Not too bad I would say.

Well speaking of ego, going into BK isn't necessarily a bad thing if it is done well. The fact that it was reported that AA could lose over 1billion this year tells me that while they have stayed afloat this long without BK they are just barely doing it.


User currently offlineKFitz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2803 times:

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 14):
Wrong. What CO actually said, repeatedly, was that they were fine to go either way.

No they did not. This is a flat out lie.

[Edited 2011-05-03 12:31:38]

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15744 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks ago) and read 2644 times:

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 19):
Well speaking of ego, going into BK isn't necessarily a bad thing if it is done well.

Chapter 11 is a valuable tool for an airline to get its house in order. But they have to use the opportunity, like CO did the second time. The first time nothing changed and they were right back where they started.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinetpaewr From United States of America, joined May 2001, 452 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2620 times:

The truth is in fact inbetween. CO publicly, privtely, and repeatedly said it preferred to remain independent. When UA pressed the matter by opening talks with US then UA *forced* CO's hand; so saying "CO went running to UA" distorts the facts a bit. CO just could not be in the boat US now finds itself.


If you recall at the time the ruse was well understood, the media even reported "there are some hurt feelings in Tempe tonite". Jeff's 'ugly girl' commet didn't help that.


I think it is pretty safe to say that if Tilton had not pressed CO, with the merger with US none of this would be happening.


User currently offlineKFitz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2531 times:

Quoting tpaewr (Reply 22):
The truth is in fact inbetween. CO publicly, privtely, and repeatedly said it preferred to remain independent. When UA pressed the matter by opening talks with US then UA *forced* CO's hand; so saying "CO went running to UA" distorts the facts a bit. CO just could not be in the boat US now finds itself.

Here is a Chron piece from nearly one year to the day, titled, CEO says Continental needed a perfect partnership.

"Four months after taking over Continental's top job, Smisek also witnessed the financial and operational strides United Airlines had made in the two years since it had discussed merging with Continental. Continental backed out of the talks amid a worsening U.S. economy.

Now, he also worried about how the competitive landscape was changing. Continental didn't have the global route network to attract higher-paying business travelers and faced an increasingly competitive domestic market.

“Network carriers like Continental may never make money again domestically,” Smisek said."

On April 7, Smisek saw news that Chicago-based United was in merger talks with US Airways. Smisek didn't know if the reports were accurate but feared a merger would limit Continental's strategic options.

“If United merges with US Airways, we have just lost the only strategic partner that we could possibly have,” he recalled thinking. He sent an e-mail to United CEO Glenn Tilton.


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/continental/6990229.html

This article should put all the off base revisionist history being purported here to rest.


User currently offlinetpaewr From United States of America, joined May 2001, 452 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2449 times:

yeah, that is kinda exactly what I said:


"“If United merges with US Airways, we have just lost the only strategic partner that we could possibly have,” he recalled thinking. He sent an e-mail to United CEO Glenn Tilton."


the key word is- *IF* United merges...



remove the threat of the UA/US combo and CO would have been happy with the domestic codeshare and JV's transPac/Atl and Latin which was the plan prior (that was cake and eat it too) You can spin it how you want CO did not want to merger with UA, but they could not lose UA completely. Faced with all or nothing CO took the plunge and when all in. CO was forced into this, bottom line.


Like when a woman starts flirting with other guys to get her man to get serious, UA wanted CO to get serious and it worked.


25 Post contains links and images wn700driver : From: http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?se...news/national_world&id=6107696 Here, have some more... From: http://www.cargonewsasia.com/secured/ar
26 KFitz : Look you are taking this so personally and getting so heated up over nothing. Calm down. there's no reason to be rude to each other and try and score
27 Post contains links tpaewr : Clearly, CO agreed to the merger at somepoint or they would not be mergering. But the point is 'only' in the context of the being faced with UA/US. CO
28 ual777uk : Yes, but what has that got to do with my comments? Okay, fair enough, we will have to agree to disagree. I dont beleive I ever said anyone would let
29 Post contains images wn700driver : Yeah, that's kind of been the whole way that I've seen this thing too. I know there was a lot of pressure to merge earlier in the decade. I even reme
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