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MEA In SkyTeam: New Routes?  
User currently offlinebrightcedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1289 posts, RR: 2
Posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6982 times:

MEA is on the verge of being a full member of SkyTeam.as of 2012.

The carrier is successfully increasing the size of its fleet, the number of points served, and the frequency at which they are served.

I would like us to share some thoughts on what the network developments could be.

1. North America
It's a fact that the US and Canada are a potential market for MEA but that there currently exist restrictions other than economical governing the topic. For now I just see more cooperation via the European hubs than anything else.

2. Asia & Australia
I don't see MEA operating on its own metal to the region again but could they enter into agreements with regional member airlines? Of course Malaysia Airlines' could be the best suited but they are not a member of the alliance (yet?). Would MEA venture into China or a Chinese carrier venture into Beirut? There could be interesting connection opportunities in the Middle East, North and West Africa.

3. Europe
Far from thinking MEA might leave BRU as it seems to be a success story, will they consider opening AMS as it is another AFKL hub providing many connection opportunities and would allow to better milk Paris' high O&D traffic while providing a fail safe option in case of traffic disruptions at either AMS or CDG (social, weather, etc.). I believe they are slated to opening up MOW in the coming future, doesn't SU already server BEY, will they codeshare on the route? Would MEA cooperate with rival Alitalia? It hasn't been only sweet words between the two in the past years.
Can BEY become a small SkyTeam hub in Beirut where OK and RO would funnel passengers onto ME and vice-versa between Europe and the Levant/Middle East?

4. Middle East
Saudia is slated to become another SkyTeam member in the region, will this bring ME and SV any closer? What can they bring to each other? What savings could they realize together if any? Is it just too far fetched to consider any benefits are all (shared lounge at BEY for example)?

5. Africa
MEA seems to be carefully expanding into Africa. SkyTeam's only local member Kenya Airways doesn't (yet) server BEY to my knowledge, and there aren't that many affinities between the countries either (again to my knowledge), is anything more than today possible at all?

Tell the World!


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40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebrightcedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1289 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6969 times:

I omitted Latin America, does anyone see an opportunity for a connection to GRU, the local Lebanese focal point? I unfortunately don't.


I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5214 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6948 times:

I still think MEA will swap BRU for AMS to use the KL´s UK and Scandinavian network. For BRU pax there´s the highspeed train into AMS.

User currently offlinebrightcedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1289 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6876 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 2):
For BRU pax there´s the highspeed train into AMS.

Most people were not interested when it was about taking the Thalys to CDG which is a much faster ride, I doubt the demand would survive such a move. BRU is a rediscovered O&D point in its own right with a market that matured in the last 10 years (better income in the target group and so on), I think AMS can run side-by-side as a hub for UK, Northern Europe, and anything US & Canada.

I for myself would probably go for a connection at some intermediary point again over taking the train to AMS or CDG.



I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1182 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6816 times:
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If fuel prices revert to sub 100/barrel, I can see a seasonal DL 767 from DTW Detroit to BEY Beirut to support the Friends and Family flows if flights can be timed to offer decent connections to points like Erbil, Baghdad and Amman as well as points in the Gulf.


The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineFly2yyz From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1046 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6651 times:

Quoting brightcedars (Reply 1):
I omitted Latin America, does anyone see an opportunity for a connection to GRU, the local Lebanese focal point? I unfortunately don't.

Unfortunately I don't either... but would love love love to see an extension of their ABJ flights to GRU! Both with decent Lebanese communities.


User currently offlineburnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7554 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6574 times:

Quoting Coronado (Reply 4):
If fuel prices revert to sub 100/barrel, I can see a seasonal DL 767 from DTW Detroit to BEY Beirut to support the Friends and Family flows if flights can be timed to offer decent connections to points like Erbil, Baghdad and Amman as well as points in the Gulf.

Until things settle down in that region, oil could be at $1.00 a barrell and I don't see any US carrier operating to BEY



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 756 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6517 times:

Quoting Coronado (Reply 4):
I can see a seasonal DL 767 from DTW Detroit to BEY

Can a 767 make it that far? I thought JFK-AMM was pushing it...



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7374 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6508 times:

Quoting brightcedars (Thread starter):
1. North America
It's a fact that the US and Canada are a potential market for MEA but that there currently exist restrictions other than economical governing the topic. For now I just see more cooperation via the European hubs than anything else.

I know non-stop service is banned, but what exactly is the source of the restriction? ...and is it in writing? DOT/FAA/DHS/TSA? Where is the rule blocking it?


User currently offlineLatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2736 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6477 times:

What happened to Kinshasa? It was launched in December as a tag on to the once-weekly Kano service and has since been discontinued.

User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1329 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6395 times:

Quoting brightcedars (Reply 3):
Most people were not interested when it was about taking the Thalys to CDG which is a much faster ride, I doubt the demand would survive such a move. BRU is a rediscovered O&D point in its own right with a market that matured in the last 10 years (better income in the target group and so on), I think AMS can run side-by-side as a hub for UK, Northern Europe, and anything US & Canada.

Agree, I expect something like CDG 2x daily (as it is currently), AMS 5x weekly or so (maybe daily at a later stage) and BRU 2x weekly or so (maybe a seasonal increase or decrease, subject to demand)



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlinedirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1697 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6247 times:

China IS a growing market but the requirement to hold transit visas to transit AND OLD: Guangzhou - Baiyun (CAN / ZGGG) (closed), China">CAN/PVG/PEK would deter people from considering this. Perhaps VN? Vietnam is a growing economy, VN has come a long way and is poised to become the Skyteam airline in South East Asia (and Australia-NZ). However, the local SGN-BEY market is minimal....aside from being Francophone can't think of any links. Theoretically though, BEY can serve the Vietnam-Europe market AND the Beirut-Asia/Australia market.
ME's bread and butter is their O&D markets. With TK aggressively competing on routes to Europe, North America and Central Asia, could be difficult for ME to expand and consolidate.

SV&ME. I know that they codeshare and I think share lounges. Combining schedules would give pax for both airlines better choices.
Using the 787/A350, ME can do:

BEY-YUL
BEY-JFK
BEY-DTW
BEY-ABJ-GRU
BEY-KUL
BEY-AND OLD: Guangzhou - Baiyun (CAN / ZGGG) (closed), China">CAN

Of course, the first three are subject to new developments further down the line.


User currently offlineMEACEDAR From Lebanon, joined Oct 2006, 753 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5976 times:

ME routes that I think should be implemented:

Europe-

BEY-MAD (2-3x per week, will allow travelers from South America and Mexico that have a fairly large Arab population better connections than just CDG, FRA, or LHR)
BEY-AMS (3x per week, remember AF and ME from CDG so it is not likely they will do a daily service)
BEY-MUC (2-3x per week, will help with the connections within Europe)
BEY-ZRH (3x per week, LARGE banking sector coming up in Lebanon IMO)
BEY-ARN/HEL (3x per week there is nothing between Scandanavia and BEY, I think there might be a seasonal BEY-CPH), this could aggrandize the tourist market even more)

Asia- (I find it very hard for ME to do anything with Asia--EK, QA, EY, have pretty much dominated the routes between the Middle East and Asia, HOWEVER, if anything, I can see BEY-SIN on an A350 once a week.

USA/Canada (NOT PROBABLE NOW BECAUSE OF THE RESTRICTIONS, MAYBE WITHIN THE NEXT 3 YEARS OR SO)

BEY-JFK (3x a week)
BEY-YUL (3x a week)

I would say BEY-DTW, but I think they are better off choosing JFK because it attracts more passengers who would want to go to destinations ME offers in the Middle East region. And possibly more business passengers. And when they become a SkyTeam partner, they probably will have an agreement with DL, who has a large presence at JFK, to codeshare the domestic flights to JFK for the ME connection. For example, the biggest Lebanese populations in the US are in

LAX
MCO
DTW
SAN
BOS
CVG

I would also say BEY-YYZ, but personally I believe YUL is a better choice because there is a larger Arab-Franco-Canadian Population than there is in YYZ. And plus the hop from YUL to YYZ is nothing

South America- (even less likely than Asia IMO, BUT...I can see BEY-GRU twice a week during the summer.

Australia- similar situation with Asia, but there is a large Lebanese population in SYD, so possibly once or twice a week during the summer months

Please critique!


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27122 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5891 times:

I think we will see a slow expansion depending on the situation on the ground in BEY when MEA join SkyTeam. Direct USA flights will never happen for the next number of years for a number of reasons mostly security and political. I see a move for a number of codeshares with KL/AF to key USA and Canadian cities.

User currently offlinebrightcedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1289 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5757 times:

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 10):
Agree, I expect something like CDG 2x daily (as it is currently), AMS 5x weekly or so (maybe daily at a later stage) and BRU 2x weekly or so (maybe a seasonal increase or decrease, subject to demand)

I'm more optimistic than you seeing that some weeks this Summer will see 9 flights a week between BRU and BEY, some still upgraded to A321 to cater for the demand.



I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2238 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5405 times:

I read somewhere relatively recently that they are seriously looking at JNB from BEY


Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineMEACEDAR From Lebanon, joined Oct 2006, 753 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5170 times:

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 15):

I wouldn't be surprised.


User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5144 times:

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 12):

BEY-MAD (2-3x per week, will allow travelers from South America and Mexico that have a fairly large Arab population better connections than just CDG, FRA, or LHR)

I don't think joining an alliance means diverting traffic from that particular alliance. Thus I don't think MEA wil start BEY-MAD for this reason.


User currently offlineMEACEDAR From Lebanon, joined Oct 2006, 753 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4934 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 17):
I don't think joining an alliance means diverting traffic from that particular alliance. Thus I don't think MEA wil start BEY-MAD for this reason.

Good point.


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2992 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4857 times:

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 12):
Australia- similar situation with Asia, but there is a large Lebanese population in SYD, so possibly once or twice a week during the summer months

No need. They already Codeshare with EY into Australia.

Trying to make a couple of times a week servce work over that distance is also not practical.


User currently offlineODAFZ From Afghanistan, joined Jul 2004, 357 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4818 times:

there is room for the creation of new routes out of BEY.

In Europe, I would clearly see VIE-ZRH-CPH-ARN
MAD, BCN are well served through FCO
AMS has been dropped in favor of CDG a long time ago and neither KLM or ME will fly to Schipol in order not
to cannibalize the flow of the connecting traffic from CDG.
Alexandria could be a nice addition to the network (the 2nd biggest city of Egypt).
West Africa is well served for the time being, the latest addition of FIH was not a success and ventures to DKR in the past were not met with success.
South Africa is well served from DOH/DXB .
North America DL/AF have one of the better markets and can feed CDG/FCO/ATH with many connecting passengers as for DTW , Royal Jordanian Airlines has almost a monopoly in connecting traffic between DTW and EBL, BGW, BEY etc....
South America with a meaningful Lebano-Syrian community is mostly VFR and O/D traffic , JJ could play a pivotal role in this respect.
The Chinese market is left un-tapped for the time being , BEY could be a stop for a Chinese carrier to Europe for example ATH, BUD or PRG.
Asian market BKK, KUL, SIN. CEB. MNL, HKG, NRT, CGK etc... are well served through DXB/AUH/DOH and fellow skyteam partner MH


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7592 posts, RR: 42
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4667 times:

Quoting ODAFZ (Reply 20):
Asian market BKK, KUL, SIN. CEB. MNL, HKG, NRT, CGK etc... are well served through DXB/AUH/DOH and fellow skyteam partner MH

MH is not a member of SkyTeam. MH has not even received an invitation to join SkyTeam.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineODAFZ From Afghanistan, joined Jul 2004, 357 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4484 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 21):
MH is not a member of SkyTeam. MH has not even received an invitation to join SkyTeam.

My bad sorry


User currently offlineyegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1729 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4323 times:

I doubt that MEA would cancel flights to BRU. In fact, they have added seasonal service to DUS which isn't that far from BRU and AMS, which shows that demand from that region is strong to BEY.

BRU also serves as a jumping point to West Africa on Brussels Airlines. And given that MEA has been planning their SkyTeam membership for quite some time, why would they invest in reopening a route (and all that goes along with it), only to cancel it in 2 or 3 years?

I think we could see a potential reduction to three weekly during the winter and maybe up to 4 in the summer and either KL or MEA could open up 3 to 5 weeklies to AMS. But apparently the service to BRU is serving a lot of O&D traffic which is better than funneling transit pax to AMS


User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4265 times:

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 23):

BRU also serves as a jumping point to West Africa on Brussels Airlines. And given that MEA has been planning their SkyTeam membership for quite some time, why would they invest in reopening a route (and all that goes along with it), only to cancel it in 2 or 3 years?

I doubt that MEA will promote any interline with Brussels Airlines once they're in Skyteam... However, I don't think they'll leave BRU. In the end, Skyteam needs some sort of presence at BRU and maybe they can provide connections on DL.

I do think that there will be a link between BEY and AMS. The most likely operator would be ME.

Quoting ODAFZ (Reply 20):

AMS has been dropped in favor of CDG a long time ago and neither KLM or ME will fly to Schipol in order not
to cannibalize the flow of the connecting traffic from CDG.

Not an issue for hub to hub connections. ME can use AMS to get access to Scandinavia. Moreover, serving AMS would provide an alternative option for travelers.


25 yegbey01 : ME is only selling tickets to YUL and YYZ with connections on AC and with IAD on UAL for the last 2 years. Same applies to MEA's flights to GVA.
26 raffik : MEA is re-launching services to Medina, Saudi Arabia. Schedule: ME364 BEY 0725 – 0925 MED 321 34 ME365 MED 1025 – 1125 JED 1225 – 1450 BEY 321 3
27 yegbey01 : Well, it is listed as a charter service on the Sarajevo airport website. Airline Date Day Flight number Destination Scheduled time Aircraft type BH A
28 MEA330 : Sarajevo flight similar to Medina flight. Religious pilgrimage flight.
29 HiJazzey : Correct, although I think MED-BEY can sustain year round service and hope MEA keep it.
30 yegbey01 : What religious pilgrimage???
31 HiJazzey : Bosnian hajjis connecting in Beirut. Ramadan is a popular time for Umra. This year it falls in summer.[Edited 2011-05-14 03:51:15]
32 yegbey01 : in May? Ramadan falls in August this year.
33 Post contains images MEA330 : You did not even come close HiJazzey MEA flights to Sarajevo are for Lebanese going to the Catholic pilgrimage site of Medyugorje in Bosnia -Herzegovi
34 HiJazzey : Sorry I thought they added it to the summer schedule. I'll crawl back to my cave
35 yegbey01 : Thanks for the clarification here!
36 ODAFZ : Given the historic links with France and Air France, I do not see that happening very soon and furthermore, FRA provides better connections to Scandi
37 Humberside : AMS offers a wider choice of Scandinavian connections with KLM than what is possible from FRA
38 LJ : Yes, but if you're part of Skyteam you don't intend to route your pax via FRA. As AF/KL is one company I don't think AF would care if some of the ME
39 yegbey01 : AF owns KL, so as long as you are flying on their metals, they are happy regardless of what historical ties there may be. I think that flights to AMS
40 ODAFZ : It is true if you take into consideration that KRS and LPI are served directly from AMS and not from FRA. FRA is a huge Star alliance station, fellow
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