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Virgin A346 Two Rto's In Joberg  
User currently offlinecc2314 From Ireland, joined Jan 2008, 159 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 13192 times:

Does anyone have any info on this,the incident happened within the last two hours...

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinebj87 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12956 times:

Don't know why they did that but I am sad I wasn't on board. Two rto's on a single flight. I would have loved to have seen other passengers slowly freak out.

[Edited 2011-05-11 04:54:38]

User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12888 times:

Happened to me on a UA 744 AKL-MEL. 2 RTO in a row. It was a computer glitch with locking of main gear steering. A few pax got off after the 2nd RTO.


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineimag From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2007, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12882 times:

Could it be training? The flight back to LHR went off as scheduled last night (10th) and the flight to JNB on schedule as well. Maybe they're doing some training while the plane is on the ground all day?

The flight back to LHR tonight is still on schedule according to their website.


User currently offlineJetBlue777 From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 1451 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12844 times:

What's an RTO?


filler



It's a cultural thing.
User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12816 times:

Rejected Take Off RTO


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6528 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12680 times:

Meaning accelerate on the runway for take-off, then interrupt the take-off and make an emergency deceleration/stop. It can be at any speed, if close to take-off speed then it's quite violent and might require some maintenance on the landing gear.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinebj87 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12619 times:

Quoting imag (Reply 3):
Could it be training?

I doubt it, RTO's really put a strain on the tyres and brakes so it would be a better idea to do that at/near your home base in case something brakes. Maybe they fixed something on the brake system and they needed to test it before the return flight?


User currently offlinebtblue From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 578 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12565 times:

Only time I've had an RTO was with NW flying out of Chicago. Only my third ever flight on the 9, and likely my last.

Went for the take off roll then bang, applied reverse and stopped, quickly. Second attempt went fine, headed on to Detroit and just coming in for landing, we shot up and aborted. I was sat at the back and remember the engines spooling up like rockets. The only time I've ever experienced both, and as it would happen, on the same flight.

Memorable.



146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11968 times:

Quoting cc2314 (Thread starter):
within the last two hours...

VS only depart JNB at 2030 UTC+2, so I am surprised there are RTO's...



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlinecc2314 From Ireland, joined Jan 2008, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11878 times:

Sorry guys this happened either yesterday or the day before,after the second rto the crew went out of hours.The ac only needed one hours worth of maintenance to fix the problem.

User currently offlineVIR744 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10637 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 6):
Meaning accelerate on the runway for take-off, then interrupt the take-off and make an emergency deceleration/stop. It can be at any speed, if close to take-off speed then it's quite violent and might require some maintenance on the landing gear.

An RTO is not normally carried out above V1 (point of no return) as there may not be sufficient runway + obstacle-free ground available to safely stop the aircraft.

I would say that an RTO mustn't be carried out above V1 but under very extreme circumstances I believe it is acceptable if it the safest all-round option.

Quoting imag (Reply 3):
Could it be training?

Only on simulators. The only RTO practice is carried out by manufacturers testing new airframes, certainly not by crew training.


User currently offlineBthebest From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 506 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9979 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 6):
Meaning accelerate on the runway for take-off, then interrupt the take-off and make an emergency deceleration/stop. It can be at any speed
Quoting VIR744 (Reply 11):
An RTO is not normally carried out above V1 (point of no return) as there may not be sufficient runway + obstacle-free ground available to safely stop the aircraft.

I would say that an RTO mustn't be carried out above V1 but under very extreme circumstances I believe it is acceptable if it the safest all-round option.

RTO can be performed for any reason before V1. After that there has to be serious reason that would affect the aircraft's ability to fly. After V1 it is considered to be safer to get airborne, diagnose the problem, try and fix it and/or perform an emergency landing.


User currently offlineSAA738 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2009, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9979 times:

I've heard the Monday night VS JNB-LHR left around midday on Tuesday, is it this one ?


''To fly as fast as thought you must begin by knowing that you have already arrived'' - Richard Bach
User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1594 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9860 times:

Quoting bj87 (Reply 1):
Two rto's on a single flight. I would have loved to have seen other passengers slowly freak out.

Enjoyed that experience in a IB A346 doing MAD-CCS. Loved the ride so much.


User currently offlineSAA738 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2009, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9617 times:

If it was Monday's flight it landed in LHR 962 minutes late, OUCH !


''To fly as fast as thought you must begin by knowing that you have already arrived'' - Richard Bach
User currently offlinedragon6172 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4180 times:

Is there a certain amount of wait time after an RTO for the brakes to cool before takeoff can be attempted again?


Phrogs Phorever
User currently offlinebj87 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3797 times:

Quoting Bthebest (Reply 12):
RTO can be performed for any reason before V1. After that there has to be serious reason that would affect the aircraft's ability to fly.

I was always under the impression that after V1 you are committed to the takeoff unless your wing falls off. From what I understand, and I ain't a professional so don't burn me on this one, after V1 there is no way you can stop an airplane before running out of runway.


User currently offlineBthebest From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 506 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3501 times:

Quoting bj87 (Reply 17):
I was always under the impression that after V1 you are committed to the takeoff unless your wing falls off.

I think that would be classed as a 'serious reason that would affect the aircraft's ability to fly'  

I'm not a professional either, but I think it pretty much comes down to whether its safer to do an emergency landing or an RTO, dependent on the problem. The pilot has literally seconds to make a decision so its not like he has time to do a checklist. I would imagine it comes down to the situation as a whole so no specific rules can really be set, more just guidelines.

Any pilots got any comments?


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6528 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3133 times:

Quoting VIR744 (Reply 11):
An RTO is not normally carried out above V1 (point of no return) as there may not be sufficient runway + obstacle-free ground available to safely stop the aircraft.

Of course. But V1 is already high speed ! It can even be equal to VR if the runway is long enough.

As for a reason to RTO after V1, well, if you lose 2 engines or more, it's a good reason, you ain't flying anyway !



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineVIR744 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2769 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 19):
Of course. But V1 is already high speed ! It can even be equal to VR if the runway is long enough.

Or if the aircraft takes off at a slow enough speed - chicken & egg really; is the runway long enough or the speed slow enough. Either way V1 is the "point of no return" unless something severe happens and it is better to stay on the ground like, as you stated the obvious, the engines failing. If you want to really state the obvious then a single engine aeroplane only has to have its single engine fail, not two or more!


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2820 posts, RR: 45
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2506 times:

Quoting bj87 (Reply 17):
Quoting Bthebest (Reply 12):
RTO can be performed for any reason before V1. After that there has to be serious reason that would affect the aircraft's ability to fly.

I was always under the impression that after V1 you are committed to the takeoff unless your wing falls off. From what I understand, and I ain't a professional so don't burn me on this one, after V1 there is no way you can stop an airplane before running out of runway.

After V1 you are guaranteed to meet takeoff and climb gradient requirements with the loss of a single engine. You MAY OR MAY NOT be able to stop on the remaining runway, but you typically have no way of knowing in most operations (i.e. we don't typically know refusal speeds.) Since aborts at or near V1 get bungled up pretty routinely, it is considered and trained that the best course of action is to go fly and return for a landing in all but the most exceptionally dire emergencies. If you do abort above V1, your decision will be very closely scrutinized.


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