Why Don't More US Carriers Fly To Kiev? — Civil Aviation Forum

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Why Don't More US Carriers Fly To Kiev?

goblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2229 times:

I'd also like to know about Turkmenistan (I didn't have enough room to include it in the title). All I know of is DL to Kiev, which they recently suspended. Also DL ATL-Ashkabad. If this was easily available on flightglobal I didn't find it.

From the airport with love

11 replies: All unread, jump to last

Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21465 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2179 times:

US-Ukraine is a generally low yield VFR market with little business traffic. US carriers have many more profitable potential nonstop routes. It makes more sense to serve markets like Ukraine using alliance and codeshare partners.

Severnaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2162 times:

Quoting goblin211 (Thread starter):
Also DL ATL-Ashkabad.

You do realize this flight would be among the longest flights in the world with ~11.500kms?

Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.

goblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1876 times:

Quoting Severnaya (Reply 2):
You do realize this flight would be among the longest flights in the world with ~11.500kms?

I didn't know that, thanks.

From the airport with love

WN738 From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 153 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1648 times:

Its sad, that US carriers dont fly to more exotic destinations, forcing you to make like a dozen connections just to get to any city that doesnt have millions and millions of people in the city. I dont partcularly care for the US air cariers on long haul, but it would be nice to see some non-stop expansion int eastern europe. You'd think the capital of the country could support at least one flight. guess that explains why US carriers dont have much of a diverse route structure to anything beyond huge mega cities.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 1):
It makes more sense to serve markets like Ukraine using alliance and codeshare partners.

And about a trillion, badly timed unpleasant connections.

Flighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 7436 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1622 times:

Quoting WN738 (Reply 4):
You'd think the capital of the country could support at least one flight.

Not exactly. Kiev is a major city, but its level of business activity in dollars/Euros is quite low. The entire country of Ukraine's economy (at currency levels) is about the size of the US state of Kansas, and is smaller than that of Iowa.

Ukraine is probably a more "important" and interesting place than Iowa, but there would not necessarily be enough dollars or Euros in motion to support long-range widebody flights on a scheduled daily basis.

slcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2452 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1559 times:

I was in the Ukraine recently. Surprisingly it has one of the highest foreign born populations IE immigrants in the world and one of the highest literacy rates in the world.

I just don't think there are many business ties to the US I really did not see many at all. Not enough to support this type of service. In fact I didn't run into a single American but i constantly ran into people from China, Russia, the middle east etc. Its really at the crossroads of the Asia and Europe but almost everything i saw business wise and people were pointing west mostly to Russia mostly , the middle east, and China. I was just there the Ukraine isn't that poor buts its certainly not rich and its very far from the US. I just don't think the business ties are in place to justify it. Most of the traffic would be non-business IE low yielding who don't mind connecting as I'm guessing Delta has discovered and why they are pulling the plug. I guess Delta just wanted to see if there was a real opportunity there and i guess the answer was low yielding non-business travel unfortunately I guess give them credit for trying but i think connections in Paris and Amsterdam are more than enough for a price sensitive non business route

anrec80 From Canada, joined Jan 2011, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1358 times:

Ukraine also has Aerosvit that flies to New York. Given the business activity and economic ties, it can't support it. Aerosvit isn't yet exactly the highest quality airline - they have older planes and I would not recommend flying it. But for low yield market it does the trick. Not many of its passengers travel beyond New York.

From other parts of US, there are convenient connections via AMS, FRA and other European hubs to get to Ukraine. I have flown from SEA to KBP via AMS and back - this one works really well both ways. There are also convenient LH connections.

Ukraine is doing pretty well by CIS standards. There is little point in non-stops from US to other CIS capitals than Moscow (Kazakhstan maybe, but it's also far). Moscow is connected pretty well to the US though and is also used as connection point.

mogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1336 times:

heck, does NYC even have nonstop to St Petersburg ? that should theoretically be a larger market than all those minor CIS capitals

anrec80 From Canada, joined Jan 2011, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1314 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 8):
heck, does NYC even have nonstop to St Petersburg ? that should theoretically be a larger market than all those minor CIS capitals

Same reason as to Kiev - St Petersburg has strong presence of Western European airlines.

Also let's say Kiev is not really a minor capital - Ukraine has nearly 50 mln people, out of which Kiev has 2.5.

WN738 From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 153 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1247 times:

Quoting anrec80 (Reply 7):
From other parts of US, there are convenient connections via AMS, FRA and other European hubs to get to Ukraine. I have flown from SEA to KBP via AMS and back - this one works really well both ways. There are also convenient LH connections.

While i personally don't find ANY connection in any way shape or form convenient when there could be a non-stop, if there truly is no demand, then there's no demand. I guess i was just a bit misinformed on the importance of Ukraine and Kiev, as a destination in general. Oh well.

rwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3014 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1077 times:

Quoting WN738 (Reply 10):
While i personally don't find ANY connection in any way shape or form convenient when there could be a non-stop, if there truly is no demand, then there's no demand. I guess i was just a bit misinformed on the importance of Ukraine and Kiev, as a destination in general. Oh well.

Remember, the nonstop from JFK is really only useful if you live in JFK. Anyone else who has to connect would be just as well-served by connecting through AMS/CDG than through JFK. Living on the west coast, I'd take AMS/CDG over JFK anyday.

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