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3100 Mile B721 Flight Airborne Now. Really?  
User currently online4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 3014 posts, RR: 9
Posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 9827 times:

Saw this flight on flightaware...
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N800AK

It stood out to me since I did not think the 721 was capable of that range, even lightly loaded.
So what's the deal?


Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRJLover From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 576 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9787 times:

I don't know what "the deal" is, but, as per FA, it flew SMA-BQK late last month which is almost 100 miles further... So yes, I guess it really is flying 3100 miles today!


Last Flight(s): YHZ-YYZ-YHZ.....Next Flight(s): YHZ-YYZ-IAH // IAH-SEA-YYJ // YYJ-YYZ-YHZ
User currently offlinenipoel123 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2011, 268 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9786 times:

According to the Boeing site (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/727family/product.html), the 727 family has a max range of 4020 km, still about 1000 km to short to reach Lisbon. Looks like a long glide...


one mile of road leads to nowhere, one mile of runway leads to anywhere
User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1342 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9768 times:

As I recall N800AK is the only 727 passenger ship to have gotten a Rolls-Royce Tay conversion. Maybe that affected its range?

User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5939 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9718 times:

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 3):
As I recall N800AK is the only 727 passenger ship to have gotten a Rolls-Royce Tay conversion. Maybe that affected its range?

It also has winglets and is a biz jet so I would not doubt that it can make it.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9643 times:

Quoting 4holer (Thread starter):

It stood out to me since I did not think the 721 was capable of that range, even lightly loaded.
So what's the deal?

Extra tanks in the belly? This is possible considering it is a private a/c and the need for all of space in the cargo bin is less.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 3):
As I recall N800AK is the only 727 passenger ship to have gotten a Rolls-Royce Tay conversion. Maybe that affected its range?

It also has winglets, which would definitely play a role in helping the fuel economy.


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User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9577 times:

It is not unusual to add extended range fuel tanks to the conversions of aircraft of that type.

User currently offlinepliersinsight From United States of America, joined May 2008, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9231 times:

The registration lists it as a 727-23, btw. Which if I am right shows that it used to be operated by American Airlines before being converted.

User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2541 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9185 times:
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Quoting srbmod (Reply 5):
Extra tanks in the belly? This is possible considering it is a private a/c and the need for all of space in the cargo bin is less.
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 6):
It is not unusual to add extended range fuel tanks to the conversions of aircraft of that type.

That's what I'm thinking as well. What a great aircraft to utilize on extended-range flights.
  



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineGiancavia From Vatican City, joined Feb 2010, 1348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9126 times:

So who does it belong to...

Always annoying reading that flipin "wells fargo bank trustee" under owner.


User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8992 times:

More than one, if not all, of the below apply to 727-23 N800AK... which make it seem altogether plausible that the B721 concerned is capable of 3,100 miles non-stop, especially eastbound...and with favorable tailwinds, all the more so...

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 3):
As I recall N800AK is the only 727 passenger ship to have gotten a Rolls-Royce Tay conversion. Maybe that affected its range?

...as evidenced by the bulged #2 engine inlet. Don't know if it's the only 727 to have been retrofitted with with RR Tay engines (didn't UPS convert a fairly considerable number of their 727-100 freighters?)...more on-topic, the Tay's would definitely increase range over a 727 fitted with the original P&Ws.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 5):
Extra tanks in the belly?

Seems very likely...iirc, the extra belly tank(s) was frequently used on long-distance delivery and ferry flights and then removed when not needed in everyday service...so it's not like the tanks were a case of 'once installed always installed'.

Quoting United1 (Reply 4):
It also has winglets and is a biz jet so I would not doubt that it can make it.

Winglets certainly help...biz jet implies light load...which also serve to 'add up' to increased range.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8946 times:

Quoting Giancavia (Reply 9):
So who does it belong to...

According to the info posted with several photos - the aircraft belongs to Dallah al-Baraka - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallah_Al-Baraka

Other photos indicate the jet tends to make Atlantic crossings Azores to the US straight 3,200 nm and Bermuda to Portugal in the other direction. Appears to happen a few times a year.


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8833 times:

Quoting nipoel123 (Reply 2):
According to the Boeing site (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/727family/product.html), the 727 family has a max range of 4020 km, still about 1000 km to short to reach Lisbon. Looks like a long glide...

You need to remember that those numbers are in a pax configuration, with max luggage. This thing most likely has just a hand full of people and limited luggage... with that your range is increased significantly.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25205 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8826 times:

Quoting 4holer (Thread starter):
It stood out to me since I did not think the 721 was capable of that range, even lightly loaded.
Quoting Newark727 (Reply 3):
As I recall N800AK is the only 727 passenger ship to have gotten a Rolls-Royce Tay conversion.

It must be the only R-R Tay-powered 721 still flying. UPS sent the last of their 51 converted 721s to the desert a few years ago.


User currently offlineBostonBeau From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8698 times:

I think one of the longest schedule B721 flights was that operated by Northeast Airlines when they were awarded the Miami-Los Angeles (~2750 mi.) route back in 1969.

User currently offlineBDABOY From Bermuda, joined Nov 2004, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8458 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 11):
Other photos indicate the jet tends to make Atlantic crossings Azores to the US straight 3,200 nm and Bermuda to Portugal in the other direction. Appears to happen a few times a year.

Yes- a regular (although not frequent) visitor here. Always good to see something different on the ground in BDA.

I seem to recall 727s here when I was young. Does anyone know if they were ever operated on a regular commercial service to Bermuda?


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8393 times:

A search of the Airliners.net photo database shows one B727 at BDA - an Eastern Airlines bird in 1978

http://www.airliners.net/search/phot..._id+desc&page_limit=15&thumbnails=


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25205 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8377 times:

Quoting BostonBeau (Reply 14):
I think one of the longest schedule B721 flights was that operated by Northeast Airlines when they were awarded the Miami-Los Angeles (~2750 mi.) route back in 1969.

MIA-LAX isn't quite that far - 2342 mi., 2035 nm.


User currently offline113312 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 571 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8377 times:

I can recall that the three Regent/ MGM Grand Air -100s had an aux tank mod raising the fuel capacity to somethink like 62,000 pounds. This enabled those planes to easily make westbound non-stop transcontinental flights. Many corporate operated 727's have added range since payloads are typically light.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25205 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8326 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 16):
A search of the Airliners.net photo database shows one B727 at BDA - an Eastern Airlines bird in 1978

In the February 15, 1985 OAG, AA had 2 daily 727-200s to BDA, one from BOS and one from LGA. The LGA flight was 6 per week (except Wednesday).

AC also used the 727-200 YYZ-BDA at various times in the 1970s and 80s.

[Edited 2011-05-11 18:53:31]

User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8253 times:

Quoting BostonBeau (Reply 14):
I think one of the longest schedule B721 flights was that operated by Northeast Airlines when they were awarded the Miami-Los Angeles (~2750 mi.) route back in 1969.

It was scheduled/marketed as a non-stop flight. In reality, an unscheduled fuel stop was very often required.

That route BTW changed the course of U.S. airline history...had the (then) almighty CAB allowed Northeast's MIA-LAX-MIA route to be included with the inevitable merger that NE would need to survive, Northwest's offer to acquire NE no doubt would have proceeded and been approved... instead, NW withdrew their offer when the CAB declined to guarantee that the MIA-LAX-MIA route would be included ...Delta went on to absorb NE (without the MIA-LAX-MIA route)...and, ironically enough, some 35 years later, NW. Who knows what the U.S. airline 'landscape' would have looked like had it been NW who acquired NE 'way back' in 1972 rather than DL?


User currently offlinebtblue From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 578 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7550 times:

Nice video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9jeTh6l8EE



146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
User currently offline3ingreen From Canada, joined Sep 2008, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6604 times:

Commercial type aircraft that are in private config can significantly extend their range even without extra fuel loading capacity, due to the much lighter weight involved. Why, just yesterday a VIP MD87 flew from YVR to YHZ non stop , refueled and went right back to YVR . The west bound trip would of course be more of a test due to prevailing winds. I'm not sure of the exact mileage flown on each segment ( must be around 4,000 or more ) but this same trip would be virtually impossible non stop as a fully loaded commercial flight.....cheers

User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5909 times:

Quoting 3ingreen (Reply 22):
I'm not sure of the exact mileage flown on each segment

Direct Great Circle Route - 2,760 statue miles; 2,399 nautical miles; 4,442 km

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=yvr-yhz&MS=wls&DU=km


User currently offlinejetsetter629 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 439 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5669 times:

What is the route that Aerosur flies their 727-200s to Miami?

Is it VVI-CLO-MIA?


25 bohica : There is (or was) a 727 bizjet based in SFO that I remember had enough belly tanks it could fly SFO-CDG nonstop in both directions.
26 goblin211 : Donald Trump has this plane doesn't he? I'm sure he's flown just as long ranges as this plane is. Maybe a little bit more if it is capable.
27 777jaah : I think that one goes through PTY or GYE.
28 Highflier92660 : According to an old 727-100 ops manual, the wings tanks could hold somewhat over 12,000 lbs. and the standard fuselage tank another 29,000 lbs. No dou
29 Post contains images cedarjet : A few North American charter airlines flew pax (high-density too!) to Europe with 727-100s. Tech stopped without a doubt but don't underestimate the 7
30 Viscount724 : Wardair's sole 727-100 wasn't high density. Apart from being one-class (until they became a scheduled carrier and introduced J class service), no Ward
31 timz : Did FedEx schedule 727s California to Hawaii?
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