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U.S.-Mexico Route Authorities  
User currently offlinepsa1011 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 284 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2108 times:
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Is U.S.- Mexico restricted to a certain number of U.S./Mexican airlines?

I thought that routes like LAX-SJD would be restricted to two of each, but this route is served by AA, AS & UA. Or is this rule only applicable to U.S.-MEX?

7 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24643 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2054 times:

Quoting psa1011 (Thread starter):
Is U.S.- Mexico restricted to a certain number of U.S./Mexican airlines?

See the currrent US-Mexico bilateral here.
http://www.state.gov/e/eeb/rls/othr/ata/m/mx/114578.htm

It's ironic that this agreement is still so restrictive considering that the US and Mexico have been part of the North American Free Trade Agreement (which excludes air travel) since 1994, and the US has open skies agreements with something like 100 other countries (including their neighbor to the north...Canada) with none of the restrictions that still apply between the US and Mexico.

Relevant excerpt:

4. Except as provided in subparagraph 5 of this paragraph, either of the Parties shall be entitled to designate two airlines to provide scheduled combination services on any city pair between the two territories that may be served under the Agreement. Such designations shall be notified to the other Party in writing .

5. Except as provided in sections a and b of this subparagraph, each Party shall be entitled to designate three airlines to provide scheduled combination services between any point or points in the United States and the following points in Mexico: Acapulco, Cancun, Cozumel, Guadalajara, Huatulco, Ixtapa/Zihuatanejo, Loreto, Manzanilllo, Mazatlan, Merida, Monterrey, Oaxaca, Puerto Vallarta, and San Jose'del Cabo . Such designations shall be notified to the other Party in writing .

a. Through October 26, 2007, each Party shall be entitled to designate two airlines to provide scheduled combination services between any point or points in the United States and the following points in Mexico: Guadalajara and Monterrey.
b. Effective October 27, 2007, each Party shall be entitled to designate three airlines to provide scheduled combination services between any point or points in the United States and the following points in Mexico: Guadalajara and Monterrey .

6 . For purposes of designations under this Agreement, Washington, D.C. and Baltimore shall be regarded as separate cities, and Mexico City and Toluca shall be regarded as separate cities.


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5231 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2030 times:

Quoting psa1011 (Thread starter):
I thought that routes like LAX-SJD would be restricted to two of each, but this route is served by AA, AS & UA. Or is this rule only applicable to U.S.-MEX?

The market is not restricted in terms of how many airlines may fly US-Mexico routes, just in how many airlines may fly a given route between the US and Mexico. Up until a few years ago, only two US airlines and two Mexican airlines could fly between a point in the US and a point in Mexico. There were also certain cities where a distinction was not made between airports. Thus, for the purposes of a route authority, NYC authorities were/are city specific, not airport specific, and so you could only have two US airlines flying NYC-MEX rather than two flying JFK-MEX and two EWR-MEX.

A few years ago, the restrictions were relaxed, and now up to 3 US and 3 Mexican airlines can fly between any US point and most Mexican points, except for Mexico City where the two airline rule still applies. One other city remains under the 2 airline rule as well, I think Guadalajara, though someone more knowledgeable can verify this.

[Edited 2011-05-12 15:17:44]


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16795 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2000 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 2):
NYC authorities were/are city specific, not airport specific, and so you could only have two US airlines flying NYC-MEX rather than two flying JFK-MEX and two EWR-MEX.

CO got their EWR-MEX authority from Eastern in 1989, up until that point Eastern was flying JFK-MEX (sometimes continuing to ACA) for decades using A300s and L1011s. DL got their JFK-MEX authority from Pan Am in 1992.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinepsa1011 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1989 times:
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OK, thank you for the clarification. I'm glad to hear there has been some easing of the restrictions, albeit not to MEX.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24725 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1981 times:

The problem between the US and Mexico is that essentially the air service agreement remains almost the same since its initial signing in 1960, with only small modifications over the years.

Idealy the US would be happy to add Mexico to the list of 100+ nations that have Open-Skies agreements with the US, but Mexico continues to be reluctant.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5231 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1943 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 1):
Through October 26, 2007, each Party shall be entitled to designate two airlines to provide scheduled combination services between any point or points in the United States and the following points in Mexico: Guadalajara and Monterrey.
b. Effective October 27, 2007, each Party shall be entitled to designate three airlines to provide scheduled combination services between any point or points in the United States and the following points in Mexico: Guadalajara and Monterrey .

Oh OK. I knew that GDL was also left at two airlines from each country, but was unaware that MTY was as well. I was also unaware that this has been increased to 3 airlines. Thanks!

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
CO got their EWR-MEX authority from Eastern in 1989, up until that point Eastern was flying JFK-MEX (sometimes continuing to ACA) for decades using A300s and L1011s. DL got their JFK-MEX authority from Pan Am in 1992.

Interesting. I knew about DL obtaining their route authority from PA, but was unaware that CO had obtained theirs from EA. For whatever reason, I thought they'd applied at some point and been granted the authority rather than it being inherited from Eastern.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16795 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1581 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 6):
was unaware that CO had obtained theirs from EA. For whatever reason, I thought they'd applied at some point and been granted the authority rather than it being inherited from Eastern.

Eastern and CO were both part of the same company, Texas Air Corp. The Eastern flight departed from the Eastern Airlines terminal at JFK, now Terminal One, however they arrived at the British Airways terminals (T7) because Eastern's Terminal did not have a FIS facility.

When the Eastern Pilots/Mechanics went on strike and Eastern was operating under bankruptcy they discontinued their JFK operation and instead concentrated on EWR, LGA and ISP. They no longer needed the International authorities they held from JFK. Those included MEX, CUN, PTY, BOG, CCS etc.. which went to CO.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
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