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BEA: Total Data Extraction From AF447 Boxes - Part 1  
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4389 posts, RR: 76
Posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 61757 times:
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I think this requires a new thread as we are in a new development .
France Info has just said that a BEA announcement confirms that the recorders have been read and that the entirety of the recorded data have been extracted.
We're then entering the formal transcript of the FDR : CVR recordings, and the accurate examination of the data will reveal what happened to AF447.
I confess that I had a few moments of doubt and we have to really congratulate Honeywell for the quality of their procuct, and the BEA engineers for achieving the data extraction.

Edited for addition :

This is the banner *Le Monde* is displaying :
ALERTE 12h27 : Le BEA a pu lire toutes les données des boîtes noires du vol Rio-Paris
Le Bureau d'enquêtes et d'analyses est parvenu ce week-end à "recueillir l'intégralité des données contenues" dans les deux boîtes noires du vol AF-447, dont le crash avait fait 228 morts le 1er juin 2009. Le BEA annonce qu'un rapport d'étape sera rendu public cet été. (AFP et Reuters.)


[Edited 2011-05-16 03:42:28]


Contrail designer
253 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedh106 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 626 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 61798 times:

Truely excellent news !


...I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate....
User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 61794 times:

WOW....

All that time on the seabed, and they have all the information, congratulations for Honeywell.

Now lets get this info out so we can once and for all find out what happened to this aircraft!


User currently onlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1586 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 61734 times:

Quoting Pihero (Thread starter):
congratulate Honeywell

Indeed, those are some really good engineered pieces of equipment. Unbelievable that they still hold all the data.

Now also on FlightGlobal;

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ockpit-voice-recorder-data-is.html

"The Bureau d'Enquetes et d'Analyses said it had retrieved "all of the data" from the flight-data recorder and the "whole recording" of the final two hours of flight from the cockpit-voice recorder."

What a way to brighten up the monday  



Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8486 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 61529 times:
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This is superb news, the data will mame interesting reading, for sure.

Looking back we had little hope they would be found, look where we are now, amazing!



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineGBan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 61495 times:

Confirmation by BEA:

http://www.bea.aero/fr/enquetes/vol.af.447/info16mai2011.en.php


User currently onlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1586 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 61470 times:

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 4):
Looking back we had little hope they would be found, look where we are now, amazing!

Indeed, for a year now I kinda accepted the "fact" that we would never really know what happened to AF447, and now this! It all went so fast  



Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlinefca767 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 1739 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 61291 times:

I know they say 2012 for the report...but will we get any info before then or do we have to wait?
Perhaps the CVR transcript can easily be produced to tell us something


User currently offlinepilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 61276 times:

We will start to hear from places here and there....big accidents like this are hard to keep quiet, information may seep

they did when we were investigating TK 1951, we were shocked to hear some of the accurate stuff when very few people across the globe had access...

A change in airbus procedures, or rather in my opinion the wording in airspeed unreliable will be changing soon...that's my personal opinion as a bus driver

I dont want to speculate too much, but it's human nature, I still think the source of this accident was a very simple misidentified stall....
RIP



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4389 posts, RR: 76
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 61211 times:
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I think we need to show the BEA briefing text in its entirety :
16 May 2011 briefing



Following operations to open, extract, clean and dry the memory cards from the flight recorders, BEA Safety Investigators were able to download the data over the weekend.

These operations were filmed and recorded in their entirety. This was done in the presence of two German investigators from BFU, an American investigator from NTSB, two British investigators from AAIB and two Brazilian investigators from CENIPA, as well as an officer from the French judicial police and a court expert.

These downloads gathered all of the data from the Flight Data recorder (FDR), as well as the whole recording of the last two hours of the flight from the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR).|/b]

In the framework of the safety investigation directed by the BEA, all of this data will now be subjected to detailed in-depth analysis.

This work will take several weeks, after which [b]a further interim report will be written and then published during the summer
.



Contrail designer
User currently offlinechuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 61055 times:

Hopefully some comprehensive answers will be obtained, at last!

User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12333 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 60873 times:

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 3):
"The Bureau d'Enquetes et d'Analyses said it had retrieved "all of the data" from the flight-data recorder and the "whole recording" of the final two hours of flight from the cockpit-voice recorder."

What a way to brighten up the monday

I understand where you are coming from, but I feel a sense of dread when I think of the struggles of the flight crew that are recorded on the CVR.

I know the transcripts will be done with sensitivity and professionalism, and I know the whole flying community will benefit from the costly lessons, but still...

Quoting Pihero (Reply 9):
These operations were filmed and recorded in their entirety. This was done in the presence of two German investigators from BFU, an American investigator from NTSB, two British investigators from AAIB and two Brazilian investigators from CENIPA, as well as an officer from the French judicial police and a court expert.

I bet those technicians who were actually doing the work were pretty stressed out by their audience.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 9):
This work will take several weeks, after which a further interim report will be written and then published during the summer.

Thanks for the update.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinefca767 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 1739 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 60797 times:

Quoting Pihero (Reply 9):
I think we need to show the BEA briefing text in its entirety :
16 May 2011 briefing

Hopefully we'll get something

Quoting pilotaydin (Reply 8):
We will start to hear from places here and there....big accidents like this are hard to keep quiet, information may seep

That's good then


User currently onlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1586 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 60796 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 11):
I understand where you are coming from, but I feel a sense of dread when I think of the struggles of the flight crew that are recorded on the CVR.

No of course, but after being convinced this will never be solved it has the effect on me of being great news. Although the underlying cause is of course anything but good news.



Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 60635 times:

Quoting Pihero (Reply 9):
BEA Safety Investigators were able to download the data over the weekend.

Wonder if this will put paid to the concept that they would have taken cheese with their whine over a long lunch? Well done the French. Superb job, finding, recovering and downloading, and all those who helped.


User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 60020 times:

Woo hoo! This is great news.

Big pat on the back to Honeywell.

[Edited 2011-05-16 06:43:57]

User currently offlineflaps30 From United States of America, joined May 2009, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 58406 times:

This is great news for all involved in the search. Getting off topic for just a bit, all this makes me wonder what was done regarding the search for the Yemenia A310 that crashed near the Comores just a few weeks after AF447. Was there an extensive search for the aircraft or the black boxes? This crash is just as much a mystery as AF447. Does anyone have any info about this crash and the investigation?


every day is a good day to fly
User currently offlineBEG2IAH From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 935 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 58403 times:
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This is more than great news. Congratulations to everyone who worked on this tough endeavor.

BEG2IAH



FAA killed the purpose of my old signature: Use of approved electronic devices is now permitted.
User currently offlinerichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4242 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 58144 times:

Well I guess this announcement truly answers one major question - that the data appears to have been preserved after not only surviving the wreck itself but also after spending nearly two years on the floor of the Atlantic Ocean. I know this was somewhat expected, after the unbelievable recovery, but it is still truly amazing!

Now we can only help that the data they are able to extract is meaningful and tells investigators exactly what they want to know: the precise cause or causes of this awful tragedy. I know there is a lot of litigation pending the outcome of this investigation but that is far less important than preventing another AF447 type of crash. Once again, RIP to the victims... they are never far from my mind.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineTrin From United States of America, joined May 2011, 145 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 57536 times:

This is absolutely incredible, but I think some may need to try and temper their "woo-hoo's", "pats-on-the-backs" and smiley faces. My initial reaction to Pihero's announcement was to clap both hands over my mouth and cry. I'm still somewhat in that phase, actually. We are, after all, talking about the recovery of the answer to why many, many people tragically died and why an experienced crew lost control of an advanced aircraft. I, too, feel the sense of dread and impending flood of information that will revolutionize certain aspects of modern flight.

RIP all those who perished.

..Trin..



"I'd always thought you were a guy." .... "Most guys do." ~The Matrix.
User currently offlinerohanghosh From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 57454 times:

Here is the CNN article on this topic
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe...france.jet.crash/index.html?hpt=T2


User currently offlineSSPhoenix From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2010, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 57300 times:

Quoting richierich (Reply 18):
I know this was somewhat expected, after the unbelievable recovery, but it is still truly amazing!
Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 17):
This is more than great news. Congratulations to everyone who worked on this tough endeavor.

Agree. Agree. Agree.

The outcome of the analysis will hopefully provide some form of closure to the relatives of the dearly departed. Whilst every crash shares this characteristic, I personally find AF447 to be particularly sobering - reminding us of how vast our planet is. The recovery operation is a success in the light of the economical, operational and engineering challenges faced, and hopefully will lay to rest the educated speculation that has surrounded this accident.

The very fact that the flight data and cockpit voice recorders have managed not only to survive, but yield key information is a technical achievement on its own.

God bless the relatives of the victims and the teams involved in the search operation.



There's Method in the Madness ...
User currently offlinetp1040 From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 200 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 56913 times:

The thought of this really is amazing. When the accident first occurred, due to the location, I held out little hope for even finding the FDR and CVR. But to find them and extract ALL the data is truly a herculean feat. Many people and technologies had to work together for this to happen.

I am sure that what is learned will save lives in the future.


User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 56524 times:

Quoting Pihero (Thread starter):
I confess that I had a few moments of doubt and we have to really congratulate Honeywell for the quality of their procuct, and the BEA engineers for achieving the data extraction.

Agreed! Truly staggeringly good news. Great job to all involved. And what a great design job Honeywell did.

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 6):
Indeed, for a year now I kinda accepted the "fact" that we would never really know what happened to AF447, and now this! It all went so fast

Same! I resigned myself to that "fact", I couldn't believe it at all when I saw the "AF 447 found" thread, and my disbelief was no less pronounced when the FDR, data module and then CVR were found. Fantastic.

Quoting fca767 (Reply 7):
I know they say 2012 for the report...but will we get any info before then or do we have to wait?
Perhaps the CVR transcript can easily be produced to tell us something

You keep asking this! We WILL have info before 2012, in the form of interim reports. They might tell us what the crew were thinking/doing but there will not be a formal transcript release before the final report, if at all.



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently onlinerj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 56534 times:

As I said in the other thread, I smell a new "Seconds from Disaster" or "Air Accident Invesitgation" episode or even a movie coming up.

25 fca767 : I can't stand watching them...they just sensationalise every single thing that happens. Along with false cockpits and headphones etc. Too much falsne
26 n471wn : I find that they make an attempt to be pretty accurate-----they are not perfect but they do get the cause right.
27 Slinky09 : Agreed, eagerly anticipating a record of fact about what happened, aside from all the rumour and supposition we've had. And to the BEA, Airbus, AF, t
28 canoecarrier : I wouldn't have wanted their job. And, personally I think it's a validation that there's no reason to change how we collect and store FDR/CVR data. T
29 FlyASAGuy2005 : I first saw this on the AP wire earlier today. Very happy to hear that the box was still in great shap with READABLE data. Now, it's just a waiting ga
30 racko : Seconds from Disaster is horrible, but "Air Crash Investigation" is usually pretty good.
31 RJAF : Wonderful news.. I believe this is a big leap for aviation safety. The experience gained from this crash (not least the concerted efforts of all invol
32 Post contains images Trin : I imagine that this is a reasonable statement. There would be no reason to think that - if the CVR data is readable - they haven't already sat down a
33 canoecarrier : Well they can, but I doubt they would do that in this case. In the US the NTSB takes the CVR/FDR to Safety Board headquarters then transfers it to th
34 Post contains links sxb : According to Le Figaro, first results from the FDR or the CVR analysis shows that Airbus has no responsibility.... The A330 did not fail and is not re
35 WingedMigrator : Same article cites sources close to the investigation as saying that new elements will be made public tomorrow regarding Air France and the crew's po
36 Trin : I don't suppose anyone could supply an English translation of this article, could they? I would definitely like to read it, but my French is at the "
37 canoecarrier : Hold on now, by saying that the "A330 didn't fail" does that exonerate Thales? Something very wrong must have been going on the cockpit if they're ta
38 Post contains links Pihero : Too bloody quick and the frakking *leaking* game has started. I certainly would not be so sure and totally exonerate any one. There are too many facto
39 Post contains images LTC8K6 : They had already been congratulated a lot in the thread. Honeywell seemed a bit left out. [Edited 2011-05-16 13:28:15]
40 breiz : I heard today that the amount of data recorded, and available, was 2 h on the VCR and 25 h on the FDR. Is 25 h correct?
41 LTC8K6 : It is amazing going from thinking they will never be found and you will never know, to these days.
42 SAAFNAV : I really agree. I can't stand cheap imitation cockpits, lousy acting of what a pilot does and just plain wrong procedures or terminology. I'd much ra
43 travelavnut : That might be true, but, compared to any other TV program about plane crashes they are quite accurate IMHO.
44 canoecarrier : Yes, depending on how it's configured to record (e.g., 64 words per second, 256 words per second) it can store up to 100 hours. Didn't you say that B
45 Post contains links gatorfan : I've always been amazed at what careful analysis of the CVR yields. The analysis of the sounds are sometimes as important, if not more important than
46 justloveplanes : A few kudos also to Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute who operated the REMUS and REMORA robots that found the site, then the FDR/CVR.
47 Pihero : We're here to serve : "Airbus exonerated by the black boxes. The black boxes have quickly talked. According to government sources and people close to
48 Pihero : Yes, these items were tagged in black on the site map they provided. I havben't heard of the forensic results but now I am of the opinion that we sho
49 Post contains images Trin : Je vous remercie, monsieur. You beat Google Translate hands-down. Yes, it is certainly extraordinary that some - how shall we say, "rumours" have alr
50 canoecarrier : A week ago, I went back and read a number of the threads that you and others contributed to shortly after the plane was lost. It should be interestin
51 IDAWA : It's impossible for the BEA to have already processed the FDR data and reconstructed a possible scenario. Either it's a fake information leak, or they
52 flood : I just hope this isn't another kid-in-the-cockpit type scenario.
53 BA9216C : Wow this is truely excellent news! Best bit of aviation news i've heard in a while! Totally agree and i'll add that i also hope the pilots were both a
54 yellowtail : OR worse: suicide.
55 richierich : Or worse, an Egypt Air type scenario. I cannot imagine that is the case here, so please don't think I am implying that, but the "exhonoration" of Air
56 breiz : The purpose of the BEA's work is to clarify what happened and to indicate corrective actions. As there were speculations on the performances of the A
57 canoecarrier : I think I'll hold off on wild speculation to what human caused error could have caused this. It only took one hour and we have suggestions that it cou
58 goblin211 : TBJ, I forgot about it because other news stories piled up. But I'm glad they finally know what went wrong and look forward to remembering and learnin
59 FRAIAD : I think this is just incredibly impressive. Finding both recorders after almost two years and retrieve them from more than 10,000 feet and than be abl
60 LU9092 : This exoneration of Airbus makes me wonder if perhaps there is clear evidence the pilots flew directly into dangerous weather. Can convection cause ic
61 PlanesNTrains : I think that's a good point. I know this may sound inappropriate, but I really hoped that this would not be because of human factors. I know that tha
62 arniepie : About the quick, no aircraft problem, conclusion. Something very distinctive must have happened one would think after such a rapid conclusion. What ab
63 DocLightning : Yes, but that already happened two years ago. Nothing can change that now. The news is already the worst, so any new news can only make it better.
64 Pihero : First of all, how can Airbus be totally exonerated with all these ACARS messages ? Of all the scenarii you all thought about, one IMO sticks out : Th
65 YULWinterSkies : Something is --very-- fishy about this. 7 hour after this initial paper, the information does not appear on Le Monde website, neither France Info (pu
66 ComeAndGo : . . . It's quiet obvious that they stumbled on to new compelling evidence that has nothing to do with what we have been discussing here. Did the pito
67 ComeAndGo : Is it possible for the pilots to be locked out of the cockpit ? Does the door open only from the inside in flight ?
68 YULWinterSkies : I'd speculate for a fake information leak. it has yet to be relayed on a second news website... Or, at the very least, a real information leak that r
69 JBirdAV8r : I think it's highly, highly unlikely a smoking gun has already been found and leaked out...ESPECIALLY one that "exonerates" a possible cause. There wo
70 KFlyer : This is totally - I don't know if I should be happy or sad. Like someone said earlier, either fake news or something very conclusive was found. If the
71 Post contains links Chamonix : http://www.europe1.fr/International/...7-Airbus-mis-hors-de-cause-544581/ What all this is about is about compensation payments and PR. Now,EADS has m
72 giopan1975 : This is a question I wanted to ask the professionals for sometime now: What really happens when one of 2 crew members feels sick and needs to throw u
73 Chamonix : Yes it happened a while back on a Nigerian Airways DC-10. They used pick axes to get back in.
74 giopan1975 : Could all 3 be locked outside? Silly question?
75 ThirtyEcho : This news will spawn 500 to 1000 conspiracy theories. There was no data. These aren't the real recorders. The data was altered. Space aliens downloade
76 tdscanuck : Or it's one of the simplest...they aircraft may have encountered weather beyond its performance capability. That's relatively rare in modern aviation
77 GBan : Bringing up this point again and again doesn't really improve the quality of these otherwise very interesting threads. This nonsense doesn't help eit
78 zeke : We do not, and I think any such report is somewhat premature. What we do know however is that ACARS messages only are generated when a fault is detec
79 AustrianZRH : I was also thinking along those lines - but on the other hand, what's a terroristic attack worth if noone claims responsibility. They would have sent
80 jonathan-l : Is it an obligation that 2 pilots be in the cockpit at any moment of the flight? Or is it accepted that one of the pilots goes to the bathroom or stre
81 Post contains images oldeuropean : Haha, don't forget the Nazi-UFOs. They've been on a sightseeing trip, coming from their home base in Antartica, when suddenly that aircraft bumped in
82 MD11Engineer : Don´t forget that modern aircraft often generate fake fault and maintenance messages. These nonsense messages drive us nuts from time to time. All m
83 Post contains links phklm : BEA has issued a press statement in which they criticize the announcements made by Le Figaro (in fact, they even call it "sensationalism by the press"
84 peh : I respectfully disagree. Whatever caused this plane to go down could still be affecting planes in the air today. We're lucky that no further planes w
85 AF2323 : This kind of leak reminds me of the ones we had before WTO rulings between Airbus and Boeing, when they claimed victory. It is probably coming from so
86 KFlyer : And let's hope that this investigation does not turn out like the 1988 Mulhouse A320 accident.
87 chuchoteur : They rightfully point out that only they can issue reports on the accident investigation, and that many sets of data need to be analysed before any c
88 bwvilla : Isn't it the case that when there are just 2 pilots and one of them needs to visit the restroom, then they will always get one of the cabin crew to s
89 Post contains links slarty : This just in ... "May 17 (Reuters) - Airbus (EAD.PA) has told airlines a partial examination of black boxes recovered from a plane that crashed in the
90 ComeAndGo : It still puts Airbus out of the picture. There was nothing wrong with the aircraft.
91 garpd : Any information on whether or not the modules actually let in water at all? They looked completely intact and in mint condition on the photos.
92 LU9092 : I had in mind a situation where the crew flew into the weather due to inattention - whether it be sleep, distraction, being locked out of the cockpit
93 jonathan-l : That makes sense. So the regulation would require 2 people in the cockpit at all times? Operationally speaking, do crews strictly make sure there are
94 Chamonix : Is there no such thing as a DCVR? If DFDR is digital,is CVR still analogue i.e. no digital?
95 pilotaydin : I must disagree, as someone who listens to many CVRS and decodes FDRs on a regular basis aside from being a line pilot, I can tell you that it doesn'
96 Trin : I am very glad to see this, and I think we should all heed it's message and stop the wild speculations as to what happened. Like I said yesterday - I
97 Kaiarahi : They didn't say that at all - only that it hasn't led to "any *immediate* *new* safety recommendations.
98 N14AZ : Sorry if I missed that information in all the previous (and sometimes parallel) threads: is it a proven fact that there was only one pilot in the coc
99 travelavnut : No not at all, but it is ONE of the scenarios that are possible. And now that the semi-confirmed(?) rumour about Airbus not being responsible (ie; no
100 knoxibus : Problem with some here is that they rely on journalism aiming at having the first info or breaking news, sometimes (or even always) not accurate. Ther
101 N14AZ : Thanks very much for clarifying this. When reading all the posts before you could get the feeling as if this is already a fact. So once again thank y
102 Pihero : Eggs on my face as I got caught in a remarkable disinformation OPs by a newspaper which certtainly doesn't share the majority's ideas on ethics. Fortu
103 Pihero : Where the scandal came from and what unethical journalism can do to completely transforms the news. I looked over the net for the leak the fig got hol
104 giopan1975 : Why have they chosen today of all days to make this update? To me it is a very good reaction by Airbus based on solid information coming from their B
105 AF2323 : I am really unhappy to be put in the bandwagon of conspiracists! I've just said that the leak is not coming (directly) from the BEA. It is probably b
106 ogre727 : As I said in my post, I get that impression from living and working there 4 years of my life. And you didnt get the point... is not like they are aga
107 travelavnut : Ok, that's your experience, but I don't think you can extrapolate that to a company like EADS/Airbus. I don't think it's suspect at all and also it d
108 rfields5421 : As I understand things, Airbus and the airlines have already instituted several revisions of procedures and crew training after AF447 went down based
109 jonathan-l : Here is a press release that Airbus has put out today. Airbus statement regarding media reports about the AF447 investigation Some recent media report
110 Post contains images AirbusA370 : So, in a nutshell, Airbus announced that they have currently no recommendations and the press made of it "the plane is not at fault"? Can anybody shoo
111 robffm2 : This is Airbus' AIT: FROM : AIRBUS PRODUCT SAFETY DEPARTMENT TOULOUSE ACCIDENT INFORMATION TELEX - ACCIDENT INFORMATION TELEX SUBJECT: AF447 ACCIDENT
112 mozart : No need to shoot the entire press. Shooting that one particular journalist will do. He is known to be incompetent on aviation matters, loves sensation
113 Cassi : Well, Flightglobal came to a similar conclusion: "While the telex, issued on 16 May, is not designed to establish a conclusion over the cause of the
114 rcair1 : The CVR is digital. In fact, some models can operate in either role. They either record flight data or cockpit voice. There was a specification publi
115 tdscanuck : They're not keyed doors, they're number locks. And a properly trained crew can't get locked out of them. No. Tom.
116 Post contains images LTC8K6 : Well, if you've left the cockpit, and then flew into bad turbulence, I would think you'd be hard-pressed to get back in. Perhaps you wouldn't be able
117 GBan : This shows that Flightglobal uses flawed logic, too. Unfortunately...
118 Post contains links Chamonix : http://videos.leparisien.fr/video/iLyROoafMbVG.html
119 Trin : This video appears to be from 2009. I ran it through Google Translate......seems pretty old news. ..Trin..
120 Kaiarahi : Dude - do you exercise any critical thinking whatsoever? This is from 2009, a couple of days after the accident and well before the BEA interim repor
121 Post contains images par13del : If I take your post literally, my question would be, can you operate an Airbus a/c without automation? Hopefully we don't have to define automation.
122 Chamonix : BEA says the data analysis is in its early stages and that media reports based on non-validated information violates the respect due to the AF 447 pas
123 ComeAndGo : . . . and the fact that they released it. It is obvious that some parties were shying away from airbus products. There's an urgency here to show that
124 N14AZ : That's exactly what I tried to say but I didn't find such nice words. So why don't we simply stick to this.
125 Kaiarahi : Yet another conspiracy theory! Because AITs are a standard industry practice - Boeing does it, Bombardier does it, Embraer does it. Nothing more, not
126 tdscanuck : Because Airbus has customers with Airbus airplanes and their customers (the people who provide all Airbus's revenue and livelyhood) are understandabl
127 BEG2IAH : Pihero, thanks for sending this, it's a great find. I thought this thread would die out as we can now sit and wait for BEA to finish its work. I unde
128 DocLightning : Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. All this means is that they haven't found information yet that has led to an immediate recommendation
129 Kaiarahi : Doc, you missed your calling. The California bar would welcome you! As would Lindsay Lohan.
130 rfields5421 : I've read the same thing from Boeing, McDonald Douglas and Lockheed after the inital analysis of FDR/CVR data after a crash. Releasing such a bulleti
131 MD11Engineer : The problem with those AQD´s is that everybody gets involved. E.g. the manufacturer has found a fault with his product and has found a fix (like rep
132 Post contains links Chamonix : http://www.lesechos.fr/entreprises-s...concernant-le-rio-paris-164330.php Pilot's union outrage at media for being canon fodder thrown to the wolves a
133 col : This is a serious matter based on facts, not something you should use to fulfil a personal agenda. The report is standard procedure, and is very impo
134 Post contains images GBan : In addition sometimes they are obliged to tell that they do not (yet) have new knowledge, as in this case.
135 sxmarbury33 : I'm sorry but I find this a quite offensive. I have skimmed some of your past remarks about you not wanting the CVR recording to get into public doma
136 zeke : I am reasonably sure Pihero is referring to the actual voice recording, the CVR transcript is a different matter. I see no safety benefit in hearing
137 Post contains links Pihero : The british paper "The Independent" published an article this morning. It is , IMO, a *must read* as it shows how international networks of news media
138 Post contains links Pihero : Pilots reaction :"Pilots Outrage At « Human Error » Theory It is too early to mention the theory of a pilot error in the RIO-Paris Airbus crash on 1
139 Pihero : Thank you Zeke. I think I have written often enough on that subject. - The edited transcript is ok, as it can give a better knowledge of the human fa
140 mozart : Obviously this moron from Le Figaro has mis-interpreted something. Most probably he did do so on purpose, as i) it gets him attention and ii) he has a
141 sxmarbury33 : You might be right but he was directly responding to this comment in post 89, "Quoting slarty (Reply 89): Wow. That CVR transcript is going to be fas
142 AAExecPlat : Pihero. Thanks for all your contributions to this and other related threads. As much as I agree with you on a number of items including the use of tr
143 Pihero : sxmarbury33; Listen : There is a law that protects the privacy of the people in these recordings. And we pilots are all for it. Anyone with basic flue
144 Chamonix : Is this what most likely happened in mechanical terms? The Pitots failed,the computers went loopy,plane oversped and lost vertical stabiliser? There i
145 Mastropiero : I´ll contribute with my two cents on this one. I think that even if the conversations, private conversations, that the pilots were having prior to t
146 AAExecPlat : Pihero. I might be too dense this morning, but I am unsure what you're insinuating. What is it you criticize about the handling of Hudson Ditching? A
147 travelavnut : Sometimes I think you're a badly coded client-side scripting program just churning out semi-random aviation related sentences.....
148 NAV20 : I'd like to record my admiration for the seamen and technicians who managed to recover the FDR and CVR and the data from them. As far as I know, nothi
149 N14AZ : This is off-topic but I am curious and confused at the same time. Are you referring to WW2 ("enemyaction")? Where did they make recordings at that ti
150 NAV20 : Referring to the late 1950s, N14AZ. When the enemy was very definitely Stalinist Russia, plus East Germany.
151 Pihero : Not at all. Probably my English when I'm a bit stressed-up . 1/- I am certainly insinuating nothing about the investigation and how it was done. On t
152 Post contains images GBan : I ask myself, do you ever read?
153 giopan1975 : From my point of view I am not really that interested in listening to the CVR recording. And I think it will not help in any way nor cover any extra n
154 NAV20 : With due respect, chum, HUGE contradiction between those two comments. We either know what happened, or we don't. My own feeling is that, at present,
155 giopan1975 : Well, and that is just my 0,02 of a euro humble opinion: Airbus decides to issue an update ONE day or ON the date the recorders' information was made
156 Chamonix : All flight deck conversations are supposed to be sterile so I doubt that any personal stuff will be on the CVR.
157 Post contains images Kaiarahi : You really have no idea what you're talking about - sterile cockpit rules apply below a designated height. Random aviation spam
158 Post contains links AF2323 : Interview of head of technical investigation Alain Bouillard by AFP this afternoon : "First reading of the recorders reveals no major malfunction of t
159 zeke : That is not correct, it did not come out on the same day. For your information, as the accident is still under investigation, the investigating autho
160 canoecarrier : I mentioned this to you in a separate conversation. Marc Dubois, the pilot of AF 447 was a very experience pilot and had been with AF for over 20 yea
161 777jaah : You ever been in a cockpit inflight?? If a conversation takes place in the cockpit and is 100% irrelevant to the analysis of the accident, no one sho
162 tdscanuck : It depends on who you mean by "us". The investigators absolutely need to know what the crew talked about, and they will use that data to determine (t
163 Trin : I would imagine that the time at which the Captain resumes command as pf would be at the Captain's discretion - i.e. when the Captain feels it is nec
164 canoecarrier : I'm sure there's a procedure for this at AF. In fact it may very well be that the person acting as second in command can not take control away from t
165 Post contains images David L : All "the interested members of the public" (e.g. me) need to know is that the investigators are capable of understanding what happened on the flight-
166 sxmarbury33 : Pihero, I would have to agree with you that I have absolutely no interest in hearing peoples personal conversations and have no problem removing or ed
167 AAExecPlat : Got it. That makes sense now. What were the recommendations? I also never heard about this. Makes sense.
168 giopan1975 : Then leave it to BEA/AF/Law maker to decide whether it would be useful or not for all these professionals to have access to the real data. They shoul
169 Post contains links Pihero : Thank you? I hate to argue with people I respect. Thi is the Cactus 1549 final report and really worth a read, which would make bigger, if possible,
170 rfields5421 : The evidence is very conclusive that the vertical stabilizer was attached to the fuselage until it struck the water. There is no evidence which even
171 Chamonix : It was David that had more experience than Dubois. He had done AF447 flight path 39 times as opposed to Dubois' 16. Du trio, le plus expérimenté sur
172 Post contains links Chamonix : http://www.lesechos.fr/entreprises-s...lication-de-son-rapport-165380.php Crash du Rio-Paris : le BEA sous pression pour accélérer la publication de
173 Kaiarahi : By definition, there's no such thing as an *original* transcript, because a transcript is a transcription of something else.
174 giopan1975 : This is needless to mention and goes without saying: everybody is hungry for answers after 2 years...
175 transaeroyyz : Exactly the point, what is the delay in an update, the 2 hour CVR has already been listened to probably manys times!![Edited 2011-05-18 14:19:47]
176 Trin : I don't really think that we have much of a right to start getting impatient with the French authorities. We are not involved in the data collection
177 Post contains images Pihero : I can only agree. To think that listening to the CVR solves the mystery of this accident is to have a very fallacious view of an investigation.
178 canoecarrier : Thanks for that clarification, although doesn't that indicate more experience on the route not in the type? Although it is just conjecture on my part
179 Ralphski : I think you're missing a word somewhere. Perhaps the CVR alone won't solve the mystery but it will be a major piece of the puzzle for sure.
180 rfields5421 : Yes, but one thing investigators have learned over the decades is that what at first on a CVR sounds clear and obvious quite often turns out to not b
181 Post contains links AF2323 : According to French Radio Europe 1, the crew did no mistake in the trajectory of the plane, they did not went through zones of really bad weather. (in
182 Ralphski : What does this mean: "les pilotes n’aient pas réussi à enrayer la chute de l’avion"? nevermind.[Edited 2011-05-19 01:28:43]
183 Baroque : [ Double agree, funny how some want any answer rather than a carefully researched and as correct as possible answer. Probably so they can try to shoot
184 Post contains links Chamonix : http://www.lesechos.fr/economie-poli...cident-connues-fin-juin-165690.php "The pilots, not having managed to get out of the stall..."
185 Ralphski : So it's either Airbus or Air France and we should find out by the end of June...if I understood correctly.
186 David L : Or something else or, more likely, a combination of several factors. But it won't be the final report. Does it mean "stall" specifically or could it
187 flipdewaf : As far as I can tell it means "the pilots failed to stem the plane crash". Did you make up the stall bit? Fred
188 Post contains links Chamonix : It is more brutal than stall = chute means plunged,crashing down,dropped. Latest: http://abonnes.lemonde.fr/societe/ar...e_1524155_3224.html#ens_id=15
189 Post contains links travelavnut : Dutch media are now reporting the cause of the crash will be known by the end of June; http://www.nu.nl/buitenland/2518828/...p-air-france-eind-juni-b
190 Post contains images Kaiarahi : That's probably the most monumentally simplistic statement I've read on a.net this year. You might want to try reading any of the threads on AF447 in
191 breiz : Try "fall". "The pilots did not manage to prevent the fall of the ac"
192 Post contains links and images travelavnut : http://translate.google.com/#fr|en|chute Charmonix, I really wonder if you ever read the responses on your posts....
193 Post contains images Baroque : Not really a subject for humour but as David points out, some of the attempts at simplification are truly comical. If flying and not crashing was tha
194 Pihero : No ; I'm a realist. See the number of times people refer to the CVR compared to how often the DFDR transcripts are mentioned. People always go for th
195 flipdewaf : So you found a word that could have meant crash, which is basically what happened but chose to use a technical term which could be seen as a contribu
196 Post contains images giopan1975 : This is news in a way that (if true) it rules out bomb expolosion, structural damage and meteor strike.
197 NAV20 : Good point, flipdewaf. Chamonix, a 'stall' just means that the aeroplane has lost flying speed - so the wings stop providing enough lift and it falls
198 pilotaydin : From my experience with unreliable airspeed, it has come to my attention that this type of situation has two parts to it... the first part is understa
199 boacvc10 : Just wondering, if it would eliminate an extra possibility: CFIT (Controlled Flight Into Terrain) by any of the pilots? I am not speaking about pilot
200 Post contains images NAV20 : Just 'Wow!,' pilotaydin. You seem to be saying that they simply don't teach people to fly nowadays? [Edited 2011-05-19 06:33:19]
201 Kaiarahi : Obviously something wrong (again) with the quote button - God forbid I'd ever say something quite as banal ....
202 Post contains links Chamonix : Daggers drawn http://www.lepoint.fr/fil-info-reute...ensions-19-05-2011-1332742_240.php As the Pitots are most likely to be recovered according to "Le
203 AAExecPlat : Shocking. Utterly shocking. Especially since the theory could be practiced largely on a home PC using FS9 and reinforced with less frequent Full Moti
204 AAExecPlat : Although I am not an expert to the degree that Pihero, Mandala, and Pilotyadin are, I personally believe that a picture is beginning to emerge, and I
205 Ralphski : Dude, it was a crude summary of what was stated in one of the articles in the above links: "Il n’y a donc pas eu d’erreur de pilotage dans la tra
206 Post contains links LTC8K6 : http://securvol.fr/index.php Seems to be saying that the co-pilot alone was at the controls and that's the reason the recovery could not be made. Caut
207 workhorse : Not to disagree with what you're saying (I actually rather agree), but still, what do you think about the published transript of Colgan Air 3407 that
208 Pihero : Some posters have a real knack of fishing through sewers for information... really astonishing !!! And now this rag called securvol... Don't you see t
209 tdscanuck : No, it doesn't. Regardless of what caused the crash, it's blindingly obvious that the pilots failed to stop the aircraft from crashing since it did,
210 Pihero : In an ideal world with an honest and mature press institution and mature, reponsible citizens, the state of the supplemental airlines should have bee
211 workhorse : I see. Thank you for your answer.
212 giopan1975 : If the plane disinegrated mid air or if there was partial structural damage over the vast ocean no place to land, there would be nothing at all to be
213 rfields5421 : Not quite. The closest aircraft was about 15 minutes (250km?) behind AF447. About half of the aircraft heading in both directions that night reported
214 pilotaydin : Well, while i understand what you're getting at with the italics, i must clarify something A Type Rating is not a new license...it is an addition, wh
215 Post contains images LTC8K6 : Well, only one of them should be flying. Maybe we need to go over what happens in an Airbus when the two pilots both try to fly it, and want to do di
216 Post contains images flipdewaf : NONO! you shouldnt let anyone fly it, very temperamental things! Only powered by an atari you know Fred
217 Post contains images LTC8K6 : Run by a 6507? Well, that's your problem, right there...
218 Ralphski : I was referring to the quote taken from that article. My statement wasn't any sort of conclusion. Maybe I misunderstood the article, but they appeare
219 spacecadet : There is obviously a cultural difference between how these investigations are done in the US vs. how they seem to be done in Europe. The NTSB believe
220 rfields5421 : I really don't see any substantial difference in the procedure being followed by BEA on this investigation and the typical NTSB investigation. No one
221 Pihero : I don't think you could say one system is better thazn the other. Considering TWA 801, AA 587, the Egyptair 767 that crashed inthe atlantic, investig
222 giopan1975 : There will always be a portion of people (with or without agendas) who would question conclusions (in any field). Most of these people may not have k
223 rfields5421 : This is the part I do not understand. Certainly Airbus knows that an interim report published that soon will be viewed as suspect. Rather than reasur
224 SEPilot : I believe that the 777 has split elevators that can be controlled individually by the two control columns if enough force is exerted on the two of th
225 Pihero : Ah ! But the contrary is also valid. Anyway, it seems that we should have that prelim before the end of june. A lot of papers, worldwide are taking u
226 tom355uk : I might be wrong, but I think all Airbus aircraft (excluding the A300/310) will algebraically sum the demands from both side sticks and produce an or
227 Post contains images Pihero :
228 Mir : I did them in initial training, and I do them in every recurrent. -Mir
229 NAV20 : Reverting to a previous post of mine (and thinking back to my own flying lessons, mostly in sailplanes):- It occurs to me that, if the pitots were fro
230 giopan1975 : This makes no sense. Why would an interim report before 20 June harm Airbus? Why is it so spectacular for an interim report to be published in 30 day
231 giopan1975 : Did a recovery dive ever occur? From what I understand so far, the lone pilot scenario would explain a late reaction to pitch and thrust.[Edited 2011
232 NAV20 : Well, mate, it's admittedly only an assumption - but, given that the aeroplane dived into the sea from 35,000 feet, it seems to be a reasonable one?
233 tdscanuck : There's a breakout between the two columns. Normally the columns move together and everything is commanded equally. If there's a jam in one column yo
234 sxb : According to several French media, the BEA will publish the detailed circumstances of the crash (not the causes) by the end of next week.
235 rfields5421 : Because it is completely outside the normal investigative process. So unusual to publish such a report so quickly after the FDR/ CVR are located - th
236 Post contains links Pihero : Apparently, we won't even have to wait for the Salon as the BEA will issue at the end of next week factual elements on the flight progress which will
237 zeke : I think this will be very brief, maybe a readout of the DFDR, what the parameters mean. I would not expect to see the CVR transcript published so soo
238 boacvc10 : Given that much (if not all) the digital data has been retrieved, could it be fed directly into a simulator (after data processing) to see the trajec
239 WingedMigrator : The ACARS stuff was interesting because until the wreck was found, it was among the few pieces of circumstantial evidence of what happened that night
240 Post contains images zeke : Yes, not a simulator that you would use for pilot training, but one that is used for recreating the displays and flight path for incident incvestigat
241 canoecarrier : It would be nice if the Moderators locked a few of the other threads and we can maybe create a new thread with a summary of the facts we know before
242 NAV20 : I rather think that we already, beyond reasonable doubt, know "the trajectory of the aircraft in its final moments,' boacvc10? It continued its desce
243 boacvc10 : No, I don't think we have any firm idea, at present, on this particular issue.
244 spacecadet : Transcripts, no - and maybe I should have been clearer in what I was saying. I realize it takes a while to get an accurate transcript done. Sounds ne
245 N14AZ : It seems to me that some new information is leaking from the investigations. I would like to state first that I in no way would like to contribute to
246 N14AZ : And another quote from above mentioned article: The last sentence about the pitot tubes appears from nowhere and I am not sure if this actually a prov
247 Pihero : If there is in Europe a less trustworthy paper than the Spiegel about Airbus, I certainly don't know it. They could have been privy of some leaks, bu
248 na : The Spiegel is certainly not Pro-Airbus. Based in Hamburg, they are known to support the protesters against the Factory there. Thats why some of their
249 Post contains images N14AZ : This is of course correct and we all know this but: Even though I am the greatest critic of Spiegel I would not believe that they invented these stat
250 KFlyer : But actually from what we were thinking, weren't we under the impression that the captain never entered the cockpit during the incident ? Actually tha
251 NAV20 : But that was based purely on the fact that, from the time, he'd almost certainly have been 'on his break,' and his body was recovered. But it's equal
252 KFlyer : This incident is really getting mysterious. Let's hope that the investigation remains unbiased ! UPDATE: BEA plans to release the flight's final momen
253 Post contains links SA7700 : This thread will be locked for further discussions as it is becoming quite long and slow to load for some users. Feel free to make use of the continua
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