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5th 9/11 Hijacking Stopped?  
User currently offlinePWMRamper From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 647 posts, RR: 3
Posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 28246 times:

Has anyone heard about this? This is the first I've heard about it.

Quote:
The profile of General Timmons recounts that on the morning of September 11, 2001, she was the first officer on United Airlines flight 23 preparing to take-off from New York's JFK Airport bound for Los Angeles. The plane had already pulled away from the gate and was taxiing down the runway when the airport was shut down and the crew was ordered to secure the cockpit.
Timmons confirmed that as the pilot grabbed the crash ax, she jumped from her seat and started barricading the cockpit door. From the other side of the barricade the cabin crew relayed their concern about four young Arab men in first-class who became agitated when the take-off was cancelled, and fled from the plane when it returned to the terminal. Box cutters and Al Qaeda documents were later found in their luggage.
http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/b...11-and-the-terrorists-who-got-away

95 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3777 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 28232 times:

I'm a bit skeptical since we're only hearing about this 10 years after the fact.


PHX based
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7815 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 28177 times:

Not clear why this is being published at all.

Does someone have a book deal.


User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1083 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 28112 times:

Lynn Spencer mentions this incident in her excellent book, "Touching History," about the impacts of 9/11 on aviation and the air traffic control system in North America (published 2008). I emailed her after reading the book about this incident and asked why it has never received more coverage. In her response she said that much of the information about it is classified and there isn't much more known about it.

I first heard about this incident in a documentary on the subject of 9/11 and aviation made within a couple of years of that day, either "Clear the Skies" on PBS or an A&E Network or History Channel special on the same topic.

[Edited 2011-05-18 10:43:15]

[Edited 2011-05-18 11:33:40]

User currently offlinemaddogjt8d From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 402 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 27986 times:

I had heard about this incident on UA23 not long after 9/11. It may not have been well publicized, but it is certainly not the first time it is coming up.

User currently offlinetozairport From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 686 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 27931 times:

There were several other botched or planned attacks that day that were hushed. There have been many other attempts and/or dry runs since then. I can't go into is more, but you can never assume that your enemy is sleeping.


Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5740 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 27689 times:

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 3):
In her response she said that much of the information about it is classified and there isn't much more known about it.

Because it never happened.


Seriously, I cannot believe people will believe a load of crap made up by a book writer, with absolutely no sources to back her statements up other than a generic "the pilot was questioned by the FBI".

If information is classified and/or not well known, then how does she know about it? Al Qaeda documents? Seriously?



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1083 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 27489 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 6):
Because it never happened.


Seriously, I cannot believe people will believe a load of crap made up by a book writer, with absolutely no sources to back her statements up other than a generic "the pilot was questioned by the FBI".

If information is classified and/or not well known, then how does she know about it? Al Qaeda documents? Seriously?

Easy, big guy. I don't believe everything I read, thus the reason I emailed the author.

And, as noted, this news/urban legend has been floating around for quite a while.


User currently offlinetozairport From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 686 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 27292 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 6):
If information is classified and/or not well known, then how does she know about it? Al Qaeda documents? Seriously?

Wow, for someone who was probably in high school when it happened, you sure speak with a lot of confidence about things you could not know anything about. Oh, by the way the UA pilot in question is a General, but there must not be any credibility there....



Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
User currently offlineglobalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 953 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 27249 times:

I also believe there was another UA flight out of BOS that morning that experienced a mechanical and by the time it was corrected the airports were all closed and those suspected pax fled the scene as well. It is amazing what was in the works that horrific day!


Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
User currently offlinewindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2334 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 26850 times:

Yeah I remember this story in the days after the attacks! It was scary, but I don't really believe that the men escaped, I mean it seems unlikely that they would return to the gate and then no security officers would be ready to check the people disembarking... No?

Boaz



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6936 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 26791 times:

Quoting tozairport (Reply 5):

I recall reading about another United flight out of EWR, specifically EWR-LAX that got grounded before it could take off on 9/11 that was supposedly another one of the hijacked flights. Also I've heard of flights originating in ORD that were supposed to be hijacked as well.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3868 posts, RR: 33
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 26416 times:

Quoting maddogjt8d (Reply 4):
I had heard about this incident on UA23 not long after 9/11. It may not have been well publicized, but it is certainly not the first time it is coming up.

  

It was reported in the New York Times on September 14, 2001

Source

Quote:
Investigators said they believed that at least one of those taken into custody at Kennedy yesterday was among a group who tried to board a Los Angeles-bound plane at the airport on Tuesday morning, around the time that three other West Coast-bound planes were slamming into the twin towers and the Pentagon outside Washington.

In that incident, the flight was canceled at Kennedy just as passengers were beginning to board United Airlines Flight 23 to Los Angeles, investigators said. ''These guys got belligerent, and said something like, 'We've got to be on this plane,' '' an official said. ''They expressed a desire to remain on the plane and resisted getting off.''

The men, who appeared to be of Arab descent, then fled before they could be questioned by law enforcement officers, investigators said.

LoneStarMike


User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 25553 times:

Confirmation of the box cutters would be good for credibility, but I don't see that.

User currently onlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2415 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 25195 times:

Things like this can happen with some publicity, but are never followed up because a) turns out to have no bearing or b) gets lost in the news shuffle.

I have always been surprised how the Feds hustled the Bin Laden family away from their homes in Orlando to Tampa and then out of the country on a private jet when everybody else was stranded on 9/12. Yes, it was reported, but nobody really thought anything of it to follow it up. It just gets you wondering.


User currently offlineskysurfer From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 1137 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 25025 times:

I read quite a few years back that the cockpit crew were contacted on the ACARS system (or however it was done) by the dispatcher and told to secure the cockpit and to tell the pax that they had to return to the gate due to a mechanical problem. Real or not, who knows.....just recounting what I had read somewhere.

Cheers

Stu



In the dark you can't see ugly, but you can feel fat
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5740 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 24246 times:

Quoting tozairport (Reply 8):

Wow, for someone who was probably in high school when it happened, you sure speak with a lot of confidence about things you could not know anything about.

I'm sorry, you were on UA 23 on 9/11? You worked the case for the FBI?

There is absolutely no credible evidence to suggest that any other planes were targeted for hijacking that day. Until this "classified" document is released, it's all speculation and hearsay.

Besides, think about it. What would the government gain by keeping this information secret, especially 10 years later?

Quoting tozairport (Reply 8):
Oh, by the way the UA pilot in question is a General, but there must not be any credibility there....

Please cite a source where she claimed any of this happened.

Quoting globalflyer (Reply 9):
I also believe there was another UA flight out of BOS that morning that experienced a mechanical and by the time it was corrected the airports were all closed and those suspected pax fled the scene as well. It is amazing what was in the works that horrific day!
Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 11):

I recall reading about another United flight out of EWR, specifically EWR-LAX that got grounded before it could take off on 9/11 that was supposedly another one of the hijacked flights. Also I've heard of flights originating in ORD that were supposed to be hijacked as well.

Seriously, you guys. A lot of rumors went flying around that day. That's all they were: rumors driven by fear and paranoia.

The NY Times article quoted above is a textbook case study on how fear changes people's perceptions of everyday events.

I see people all the time being rude, obtuse, and demanding when a flight is canceled. They ALL have to be on that flight. Unless you think Craig Toomey was supposed to be a terrorist also....

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 14):

I have always been surprised how the Feds hustled the Bin Laden family away from their homes in Orlando to Tampa and then out of the country on a private jet when everybody else was stranded on 9/12. Yes, it was reported, but nobody really thought anything of it to follow it up. It just gets you wondering.

Nothing more than politics and calling in favors. Think about it: if the rest of the Bin Laden's were aware of what was going on, why the hell would they be in the US during the attacks?

Quoting skysurfer (Reply 15):
I read quite a few years back that the cockpit crew were contacted on the ACARS system (or however it was done) by the dispatcher and told to secure the cockpit and to tell the pax that they had to return to the gate due to a mechanical problem. Real or not, who knows.....just recounting what I had read somewhere.

I'm sure a few dispatchers and their supervisors (and pilots) made a judgement call to say that, but that's not really standard procedure, or at least it wasn't on 9/11.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently onlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2415 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 24018 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 16):
Nothing more than politics and calling in favors. Think about it: if the rest of the Bin Laden's were aware of what was going on, why the hell would they be in the US during the attacks?

Perfectly plausable.

So "why the hell would they" want to hustle them out so fast? So, the Bin Lauden family has the juice to do this when absolutly nobody else in the country can? Interesting.


User currently offlinegoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 23982 times:

Personally, I don't think it happened. If it did the news would cover this worldwide and it'd be a breaking story like Bin Laden's death. If it were true then that means all US allies' governments hid this info from their citizens and I'm sure not all governments agreed to hide this info, therefore, if those in UK let's say, didn't hear about it, than it probably didn't happen. This is PURELY my OPINION. Don't flame me, please.


From the airport with love
User currently offlineNorthwest727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 491 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 23851 times:

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 14):
I have always been surprised how the Feds hustled the Bin Laden family away from their homes in Orlando to Tampa and then out of the country on a private jet when everybody else was stranded on 9/12. Yes, it was reported, but nobody really thought anything of it to follow it up. It just gets you wondering.

I remember this too and being a little angered by this.


User currently offlineWABENNER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 23476 times:

Quoting 777STL (Reply 1):
I'm a bit skeptical since we're only hearing about this 10 years after the fact.

No, I hear this story years ago. Not sure about the authenticity. Though I thought UA 23 was EWR-LAX but I might be wrong.


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5126 posts, RR: 28
Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 23353 times:

It is true. There were more aircraft destined for this act on that terrible day.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineNorthwest727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 491 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 23159 times:

I believe that the original plan was to have 10 airplanes on 9/11, but it was reduced to 4.

Quoting WABENNER (Reply 21):
It is true. There were more aircraft destined for this act on that terrible day.

There were supposedly 10 aircraft that were going to be used, but that ultimately got cut down to 4 of course.


User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6537 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 22770 times:

[

Quoting tozairport (Reply 5):
There were several other botched or planned attacks that day that were hushed. There have been many other attempts and/or dry runs since then. I can't go into is more, but you can never assume that your enemy is sleeping

So are those botched attacks part on a great conspiracy by the FBI or the CIA?
Come on, someone has been reading too many conspiracy books about 9/11 along with Grassy knolls in Texas and area 51 stories. According to your theories, where is Elvis hiding out with Jiimmy Hoffa? We want to know.


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5740 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 22694 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 25):

So are those botched attacks part on a great conspiracy by the FBI or the CIA?
Come on, someone has been reading too many conspiracy books about 9/11 along with Grassy knolls in Texas and area 51 stories. According to your theories, where is Elvis hiding out with Jiimmy Hoffa? We want to know.

His post was about dry runs and attacks by terrorists, NOT some conspiracy-laden "The gubmint is behind it all" crap.

In fact, these dry runs and actual attempts at attacks are fairly well documented and publicized.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
25 bobnwa : Thjen who does he mean when he says the attacks botched or planned were Hushed. Who did the hushing, and why did tyhey do it? Still sounds like area
26 Maverick623 : If you read my original reply to him, you can see that I strongly disagree with that. It appears you focused on the first sentence, and I focused on
27 Post contains links STT757 : The closest was the arrest of Moussaoui prior to 9/11. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacarias_Moussaoui
28 4holer : I don't know enough to say if that really happened or not, but if they were intending to crash the plane, why would they need luggage? Just to carry t
29 ltbewr : In the immediate time after the 9/11 attacks occurred, many security persons who could have checked out pax on flights returned to the terminal were r
30 Dazed767 : Was JFK-LAX. Supposed to be N602UA.
31 RG787 : You would be surprised about how much we won't know in our lives. Lots of things happened during the Second World War and we still don't know, and ot
32 Maverick623 : We may not know specifics, but we can generalize by using simple common sense. Remember, before (and even after) the Bin Laden raid, nobody had ever
33 BMI727 : That is their biggest mental problem: not having evidence is evidence in their world.
34 kurtjeter : I haven't read Lynn Spencer's book but I did see some documentary--I thought it was well done--that approached 9/11 from the perspective of ATC: what
35 tozairport : I was a UA 767 f/o at the time. Other events occurred. Believe what you want, mock all you want. I really don't care at all. Like I said before, I re
36 mayor : I can remember at the time, there was a rumor that there was a DL flight, BOS-LAX, that left the gate, late and by the time it got in line for takeoff
37 vee1rot8 : I wont begin to speculate as to whether or not this actually did happen as I know absolutely nothing regarding the facts of this particular story (but
38 ThirtyEcho : WYF are al Qaeda "documents"? Membership cards? A day pass to the al Qaeda lounge at the terminal? An al Qaeda Secret Decoder Ring?
39 AR385 : At least, no evidence that we know of. Or have been allowed to know of. But my personal view on this is that I find it hard to believe that with all
40 Ushermittwoch : Bin Laden didn't plan the attacks. That was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. Common misconception. I wonder what there is to gain from keeping all these botch
41 Post contains images sankaps : And wouldn't they want the box-cutters with them in their hand luggage, rather than in their checked-in luggage? These "news reports" from that time
42 flyorski : Governments typically 'over-classify' for one reason or another. Its certainly possible that such attempts did happen. Personally I think it would he
43 bobnwa : And why would it be that you can't tell us? Did you have a visit from the men in black that made you swear to secrecy? Still sounds like a plot for a
44 worldliner : Add this to the never ending list of 9/11 conspiracies etc
45 Post contains links CPH-r : That flight was on 9/20. IIRC there was another Saudi flight earlier, but that didn't go anywhere until after the skies had been reopened. Heck, both
46 Post contains links esdex : Before people get dismissive about the story, a simple Google search found me this: http://www.delawareonline.com/articl...ral?odyssey=tab|topnews|tex
47 Post contains links TOMMY767 : There was also Delta 1989, a 763 on BOS-LAX which significance has it's wikipedia page. Many thought this was another hijacked aircraft as well. Wheth
48 Burkhard : That definitevely looks serious.
49 mayor : Perhaps this is where the rumor that I mentioned, above, got started.
50 LuisKMIA : I vividly remember hearing this from various media on the day of the attacks, but you have to keep in mind that these are passenger and crew impressio
51 Post contains links TVNWZ : Actually, it was the 13th. Airspace was closed and a Learjet was used. This article haa a good sumation. Everyone eventually admitted the flights occ
52 AA777223 : First of all, this didn't happen on 9/12. It happened a while later. Snopes debunked this one. Check it out for yourself. Why the government sent the
53 AA777223 : It wasn't a learjet. It was a Super727 private jet. There are pics in the database with info about the flight. Rumors, rumors...
54 ckfred : There are probably things about 9/11 that the general public doesn't know and won't know for some time. I've heard interviews with members of Congress
55 TVNWZ : Snopes is out of date and wrong. Keep digging. Start at the link on reply 51.
56 CPH-r : The link which clearly states that the first Saudi flight went out on the 13th and that the bin Laden flight went out on the 19th?
57 tozairport : Just curious, does sand get stuck between your teeth with your head so far in the sand? Like I said before, believe what you want. You, maverick, and
58 CPH-r : One thing that seems to work against the "more than 4 planned hijackings" theory is, who would have done it? The 4 pilot hijackers on 9/11 sure as hel
59 Post contains links TVNWZ : You apparently did not get to page 3: "Official denial of the flight persevered until 2004, when the 9/11 Commission requested clarification from Tam
60 CPH-r : Are you even reading the block of text you are quoting? It states that it went out on the 13th and it had Saudis on board (but presumably not the bin
61 jetway879 : Wow..I heard about this from a united mechanic at jfk in 2002. I didn't believe him. What I heard is they came back the next day and were taken into c
62 sankaps : You have enviable access to classified info, it seems, Can you also tell us all the inside scoop on Area 51? How many extra-terresterial aliens are b
63 AR385 : The Mobil Headquarters were just outside DC back then. The full merged, headquarters may NOW, be in Irving. I know. I was there in late 2000
64 Woof : Stuff that, where's Elvis?
65 SEPilot : The government did not want to alarm people unnecessarily, and hence did not publicize unsuccessful attempts; a policy that has been maintained to th
66 413X3 : You have to question the motives of someone who automatically labels something a conspiracy theory when in fact they are the ones guilty of not havin
67 777STL : This thread is beyond stupid. A bunch of people who know nothing are chastising others for.....knowing nothing.
68 BMI727 : So you chastise people for not believing what you say, but you are unwilling to provide anything that even resembles solid evidence to back up your a
69 sankaps : Yes, I do. Until I see convincing evidence to make me change my mind. Not vague and completely illogical stories about 4 Arab-looking men who left an
70 bobnwa : You failed to answer why you couldn't give more details and who it was that was preventing you releasing the info.
71 SEPilot : Well, I take a different view. In the nearly 10 years since 9/11, we have heard of a lot of attempts at terrorist attacks that were thwarted, and a f
72 Post contains images CPH-r : Not to mention, a fat load of good those boxcutters would do if they were in the checked luggage. Surely they'd want to bring them with in the cabin,
73 AA777223 : It has been said on here multiple times, if this story is true, the box cutters were in their CARRY ON luggage. God, read before you post, people...
74 CPH-r : The primary source of the story makes no mention of the luggage being checked or carry-on. My issue with this whole story is quite simply, that there
75 AA777223 : I will, once again, refer you to READ my post, in which I quoted a NatGeo documentary, not the 767 FO here. In the story I heard on NatGEO, they spec
76 Post contains links sankaps : Ok. So how does one explain their having sit-down drinks at an airport bar before leaving the airport then? Or maybe it was coffee at a coffee-shop,
77 flyorski : According to that it makes the port authority police appear surprisingly slow at responding. I am sure they had a lot going on and confusion on that
78 Boeing747_600 : Absolute hogwash. There would be no plausible reason to classify such information. If anything, publicity would have nailed the men in question, had
79 sankaps : That may well be, but does not explain why wanna-be hijackers with supposedly incriminating stuff in their luggage would stop to have coffee in the a
80 Post contains links theducks : It's worth noting that the FBI did a really good job of piecing together the last 5 years (or more) of the 9/11 hijackers activities - where they went
81 RobertS975 : There were also "rumors" that a DL JFK-LAX flight might have been a target. It either left the gate and returned after the ground stop or never left
82 milesrich : The reason it wasn't publicized is that Bush and Cheney never caught them. Had they arrested these four young Arab terrorists, we would have heard all
83 milesrich : Sounds like it to me.
84 bobnwa : [ Stiil sounds like adhering to conspiricy theorys to me.
85 phllax : Has anyone heard about this? This is the first I've heard about it. Quote: The profile of General Timmons recounts that on the morning of September 11
86 Fabo : They might have thought it would make them less of a suspicious target. I dont think the authorities, much less airport police, already knew it was a
87 bobnwa : Are you sure this info didn't come from the minister who said the world would end last night at 6pm I find the info you give just about as credible.
88 rohanghosh : Then we should by now know exactly which planes were targeted and which ones and why they didnt go thru with using all of them. By now, I hope we hav
89 sankaps : I was working for NWA at the time of 9/11. The way rumors flew after the attacks was amazing, almost always from "well placed sources". Pretty much e
90 Post contains images bobnwa : Well stated.
91 Post contains links milesrich : What conspiracy? These incidents were reported. They are referred to in the 9-11 Commission report. Before you claim something is a conspiracy or tha
92 Post contains links milesrich : General Carol Timmons, now head of the Delaware National Guard, was the first officer on United Airlines Flight 23 from JFK to LAX on 9/11/2001. Here
93 united319 : While I definitely don't belive 9/11, The Moon Landing, Elvis, or Big Foot are conspiracy stories. That "Grassy Knoll Stuff" you speak about is more
94 sankaps : Logical in theory, yes. Proven by facts on the ground, even after extensive research into UA 23 and other reported incidents, no.
95 bikerthai : Dude, as in any spy operation, the smart ones would have used fake ID's. Apparently the smart ones did not die on that day (nor did they accomplish t
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