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OAG Changes 5/20/2011: AA/B6/DL/F9/LH/SY/UA/US  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7680 posts, RR: 15
Posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11492 times:

How to read:
-This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).
-This report uses total operations over a week, so non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. Daily service is generally rounded up to the next whole number, but if the service is one or two flights per day the report may show a decimal approximation of the service level. For example, 0.8 would mean five flights per week.
-The code listed is the marketing code. Clearly there are a lot of regional operators, but that is too complicated for this report.
-In most cases only one direction is shown with the hub service shown together.
-Changes are shown for each month separately. Since the report goes out 9 months, a change which is not shown for the full 9 months does not take place in the months not shown.
-Flights shown are intended to represent daily flights or fractions thereof.
-DL XXX-YYY 4>4 This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear. I will look to change the automation to eliminate these in the future, but as of now we will have to live with them.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".



3U SPN-CAN JUN 0>0.3
3U SPN-PVG JUN 0>0.3

5T JHL-YEG JUN 0>1.6 JUL 0>1.5 AUG 0>1.7 SEP 0>1.5 OCT 0>1.5 NOV 0>1.6 DEC 0>1.5 JAN 0>1.6
5T JHL-YKA JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2 SEP 0>0.1 OCT 0>0.1 NOV 0>0.2 DEC 0>0.1 JAN 0>0.2
5T JHL-YQT JUN 0>0.2 JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2 SEP 0>0.1 OCT 0>0.1 NOV 0>0.2 DEC 0>0.1 JAN 0>0.1
5T JHL-YWG JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2 SEP 0>0.1 OCT 0>0.2 NOV 0>0.1 DEC 0>0.1 JAN 0>0.2
5T JHL-YXE JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2 SEP 0>0.1 OCT 0>0.1 NOV 0>0.2 DEC 0>0.1 JAN 0>0.2
5T JHL-YYC JUN 0>0.2 JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.1 SEP 0>0.2 OCT 0>0.1 NOV 0>0.1 DEC 0>0.2 JAN 0>0.1

8Q NIC-IST JUN 0>2 JUL 0>2 AUG 0>2 SEP 0>2 OCT 0>2 NOV 0>2 DEC 0>2 JAN 0>2
8Q NIC-TZX JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3 SEP 0>0.2

AA DFW-DRO AUG 1.0>0.7 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0.5
AA DFW-MAD NOV 1.0>0.7 DEC 1.0>0.7 JAN 1.0>0.7
AA JFK-CDG NOV 2>1.7 DEC 2>1.7 JAN 2>1.7
*AA JFK-FCO NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0
AA JFK-MXP NOV 1.0>0.7 DEC 1.0>0.7 JAN 1.0>0.7
AA JFK-NRT DEC 1.0>0.9 JAN 1.0>0.8
AA MIA-MAD NOV 2>1.8
*AA ORD-DUB NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0
AA ORD-MAN NOV 1.0>0.8 DEC 1.0>0.9 JAN 1.0>0.8

As expected the reduction was extended.
*AS SEA-MCO NOV 1.8>1.0 DEC 2>1.0 JAN 2>1.0

AV MCO-BOG JUL 0>0.4 AUG 0>0.5 SEP 0>0.6 OCT 0>0.6 NOV 0>0.6 DEC 0>0.6 JAN 0>0.6

B6 BOS-CUN SEP 0.4>0.2
*B6 BOS-JAX SEP 1.2>1.9 OCT 1.0>1.8
B6 BOS-MSY SEP 1.0>0.7
B6 BOS-PUJ OCT 0.2>0.3
B6 BOS-SDQ SEP 0.9>0.6 OCT 0.4>0.6
B6 BOS-SJU SEP 2>1.8 OCT 2>1.7
B6 BOS-STI SEP 0.2>0.4 OCT 0.2>0.4
B6 IAD-OAK OCT 1.0>0.7
*B6 JFK-LRM NOV 0>0.2 DEC 0>0.3
B6 JFK-POP SEP 1.2>1.4
More and more LGB slots are flying short-haul.
*B6 LGB-SMF SEP 1.9>3 OCT 1.8>3 NOV 1.9>3 DEC 2>3
B6 MCO-JFK OCT 8>9
B6 MCO-SYR SEP 1.8>1.2

BA IAH-LHR NOV 2>1.8 DEC 2>1.8
*BA JFK-LCY AUG 1.3>0.9
BA ORD-LHR DEC 2>1.9
BA PHL-LHR DEC 2>1.7

CI LAX-TPE NOV 3>1.8 JAN 2>1.8

DE SJU-FRA JAN 0.3>0.1

DL ABR-MSP SEP 3>2 OCT 3>2 NOV 3>2 DEC 3>2 JAN 3>2
DL ATL-JAX SEP 12>11 OCT 12>11
DL ATL-OAJ OCT 4>5 NOV 4>5 DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5
DL ATL-PNS SEP 8>7 OCT 8>7
DL ATL-RSW SEP 7>6 OCT 7>6
DL ATL-SXM DEC 0.2>0.6
DL BOS-CMH SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3 NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3 JAN 4>3
The hacking continues. I still don't understand the Houston swap. It's not like the route has a future.
*DL CVG-ATL SEP 8>7 OCT 8>7 NOV 8>7 DEC 8>7 JAN 8>7
*DL CVG-DEN AUG 2>1.5 SEP 2>1.0
*DL CVG-HOU SEP 0>1.5 OCT 0>1.8 NOV 0>1.9 DEC 0>1.9 JAN 0>1.9
*DL CVG-IAH SEP 1.9>0.4 OCT 1.8>0 NOV 1.9>0 DEC 1.9>0 JAN 1.9>0
*DL CVG-SDF SEP 1.9>0.4 OCT 1.8>0 NOV 1.9>0 DEC 1.9>0 JAN 1.9>0
*DL CVG-TPA JAN 2>1.1
DL DSM-MSP SEP 7>6 OCT 7>6 NOV 7>6 DEC 7>6 JAN 7>6
DL DTW-DCA OCT 8>7 NOV 8>7 DEC 8>7 JAN 8>7
*DL DTW-PEK OCT 0.7>0.6 NOV 0.7>0.5 DEC 0.7>0.6 JAN 0.7>0.5
DL JFK-AGP SEP 0.8>0.1 OCT 0.8>0
DL JFK-CVG SEP 2>1.2 OCT 2>1.0 NOV 2>1.0 DEC 2>1.0 JAN 2>1.0
DL JFK-DCA OCT 5>4 NOV 5>4 DEC 5>4 JAN 5>4
DL JFK-FLL OCT 3>2
*DL JFK-HOU SEP 0>0.8 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0
*DL JFK-IAH SEP 1.0>0.2 OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0
DL JFK-PAP SEP 0.7>0.6 OCT 0.7>0.6 NOV 0.7>0.6 DEC 0.9>0.6
DL JFK-PHX SEP 2>1.2 OCT 2>1.0 NOV 2>1.0 DEC 2>1.0 JAN 2>1.0
DL JFK-VLC SEP 0.6>0.1 OCT 0.5>0
DL LAX-MSY SEP 1.9>1.4
DL LGA-FLL OCT 5>4
DL LGA-MCO OCT 5>4
DL MSP-RIC AUG 2>1.5
DL MSP-SDF SEP 4>3 OCT 3>2 NOV 3>2 DEC 3>2 JAN 3>2
DL MSP-SUX OCT 3>1.8 NOV 3>1.9 DEC 3>1.8 JAN 3>1.9
DL SLC-BOI AUG 8>7
DL SLC-GJT SEP 3>2.0 OCT 3>2 NOV 3>2 DEC 3>2 JAN 3>2
DL SLC-LAS SEP 8>7 OCT 8>7 NOV 8>7 DEC 8>7 JAN 8>7
DL SLC-MSO OCT 5>4 NOV 5>4 DEC 5>4 JAN 5>4
*DL SLC-NRT JUL 0.9>0.7 AUG 1.0>0.7 SEP 0.7>0.5

EI JFK-DUB JAN 2>1.7

F9 DEN-SJD NOV 0.7>0.8
The reduction in MKE-Florida for Winter is stunning and DEN can't provide connections to cover it either.
*F9 MKE-FLL NOV 1.0>0.4 DEC 1.0>0.5
*F9 MKE-MCO SEP 1.0>0.6 OCT 1.0>0.5 NOV 1.0>0.7 DEC 1.2>0.7 JAN 0.4>0.3
*F9 MKE-PHX NOV 1.4>1.0 DEC 1.5>1.0 JAN 0.5>0.3
*F9 MKE-RSW NOV 0.4>0.2 DEC 0.5>0.2 JAN 0.3>0.1
*F9 MKE-SAN SEP 0.4>0.1
*F9 MKE-SEA SEP 0.5>0.2

FL rolled their schedule out to mid-December. No changes.

HT JFK-ATH JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.6 AUG 0>0.6 SEP 0>0.6 OCT 0>0.6 NOV 0>0.6 DEC 0>0.6 JAN 0>0.5

I9 ORD-KRK JUN 0.3>0.1

KE GUM-KIX JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 2.0>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 1.0>0.0

LH ATL-FRA NOV 0.9>1.0 DEC 0.8>1.0 JAN 0.9>1.0
LH DFW-FRA NOV 1.0>0.9 DEC 1.0>0.9 JAN 1.0>0.8
LH PHL-FRA NOV 1.0>0.7 DEC 1.0>0.7 JAN 1.0>0.7
LH SEA-FRA NOV 0.8>1.0 DEC 0.9>1.0 JAN 0.8>1.0

LO EWR-WAW NOV 0.4>0.3
LO JFK-WAW NOV 0.7>0.5 DEC 0.6>0.5 JAN 0.7>0.5
LO ORD-WAW NOV 1.0>0.8

M5 BFI-CLM OCT 1.0>3 NOV 1.0>3 DEC 1.0>3
M5 BFI-ESD JUN 1.0>3 JUL 1.0>4 AUG 1.0>4 SEP 0.4>1.6 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0
M5 BFI-FRD OCT 1.0>3 NOV 1.0>2 DEC 1.0>2 JAN 1.0>0
M5 BFI-SEA JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0
M5 ESD-FRD JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0

Who?
*MON SFB-LGW JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3 SEP 0>0.3 OCT 0>0.3 NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.3
*MON SFB-MAN JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.4 AUG 0>0.6 SEP 0>0.6 OCT 0>0.3 NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.3

NK FLL-ZSA SEP 0.1>0

OZ SEA-ICN SEP 1.0>0.9 OCT 1.0>0.7

SY BOS-MSP JAN 0>0.9
SY DCA-LAN DEC 0>0.9 JAN 0>0.9
SY LAN-MSP DEC 0.1>1.1 JAN 0>0.9
SY LAS-MSP DEC 0.6>1.4 JAN 0>1.6
SY MCO-MSP JAN 0>1.0
SY MSP-PHX JAN 0>1.1
SY MSP-RSW JAN 0>1.0
SY MSP-SEA OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>0.7
SY MSP-SFO JAN 0>0.9
SY MSP-SJU JAN 0>0.1

TS FLL-YQB NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.2
TS FLL-YUL NOV 0>0.1
TS MCO-YUL NOV 0>0.4 DEC 0>0.3

UA IAD-EWR JUN 3>0.8 JUL 4>1.0 AUG 4>1.3
UA LAX-MRY JUN 3>4
UA ORD-EWR JUN 8>6 JUL 9>6 AUG 8>6
UA ORD-IND SEP 9>10 OCT 8>9

UP FLL-FPO SEP 1.4>1.7 OCT 1.3>1.7 NOV 1.4>1.7 JAN 1.4>1.7
UP FLL-NAS NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3 JAN 4>3
UP MCO-NAS JAN 1.2>1.7
UP MIA-NAS NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3

US CLT-HHH AUG 8>9
US CLT-LGA AUG 12>11
US CLT-PIT AUG 10>9
US CLT-SAV AUG 9>8
US CLT-TYS AUG 9>7
US CLT-YUL AUG 1.5>1.9
US PHL-BGR AUG 4>5
US PHL-LGA AUG 17>15
US PHL-PIT AUG 8>9
US PHL-SAV AUG 1.1>1.8
US PHL-YOW AUG 3>4
US PHX-FLG AUG 6>7

WG LAS-YEG SEP 0>0.2 OCT 0>0.3
WG LAS-YYZ JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3 SEP 0>0.3 OCT 0>0.3
WG MCO-YYZ JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.2 AUG 0>0.1 SEP 0>0.1 OCT 0>0.2

87 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7767 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11428 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
The hacking continues. I still don't understand the Houston swap. It's not like the route has a future.
*DL CVG-ATL SEP 8>7 OCT 8>7 NOV 8>7 DEC 8>7 JAN 8>7
*DL CVG-DEN AUG 2>1.5 SEP 2>1.0
*DL CVG-HOU SEP 0>1.5 OCT 0>1.8 NOV 0>1.9 DEC 0>1.9 JAN 0>1.9
*DL CVG-IAH SEP 1.9>0.4 OCT 1.8>0 NOV 1.9>0 DEC 1.9>0 JAN 1.9>0
*DL CVG-SDF SEP 1.9>0.4 OCT 1.8>0 NOV 1.9>0 DEC 1.9>0 JAN 1.9>0
*DL CVG-TPA JAN 2>1.1

Part of the reason JFK & CVG are moving to HOU together is because they use the same aircraft. For now DL is keeping service to the top/largest cities from CVG.

I posted in the other running thread on MEM & CVG reductions that DL now cut the daily SBN-CVG flight effective Sept. 7th. The change will be loaded over the weekend.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL DTW-PEK OCT 0.7>0.6 NOV 0.7>0.5 DEC 0.7>0.6 JAN 0.7>0.5
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL SLC-NRT JUL 0.9>0.7 AUG 1.0>0.7 SEP 0.7>0.5

DTW-PEK is a new route this summer at 5 daily, so going 4 daily really isn't a big deal.
DL stated yesterday that there would be some day-of-week frequency reduction in the Pacific this fall to get to a modest 1-3% capacity reduction.


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3217 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 11209 times:

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 1):
DTW-PEK is a new route this summer at 5 daily, so going 4 daily really isn't a big deal.
DL stated yesterday that there would be some day-of-week frequency reduction in the Pacific this fall to get to a modest 1-3% capacity reduction.

We'd all love to see 5 daily but methinks you mean 5 weekly  


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3826 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 11071 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*MON SFB-LGW JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3 SEP 0>0.3 OCT 0>0.3 NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.3
*MON SFB-MAN JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.4 AUG 0>0.6 SEP 0>0.6 OCT 0>0.3 NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.3

MON is the ICAO code for Monarch Airlines, a charter carrier in the UK. They also use the IATA code ZB.

As I celebrate my 2000th post on a.net as of this post, I would also like to thank enilria for these wonderful and highly informative schedule change threads.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2264 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10864 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AA JFK-FCO NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AA ORD-DUB NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0

I think these are seasonal cuts. MAH or Commavia, can you confirm?



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4973 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10567 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 4):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AA JFK-FCO NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AA ORD-DUB NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0

I think these are seasonal cuts

Yes, both are seasonal cuts, and scheduled to resume in April 2012.

Both were also seasonal last year and AA had hoped (and loaded it in CRS) that they could be year-round this year (especially with the AA/BA/IB JBA).


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10559 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*F9 MKE-FLL NOV 1.0>0.4 DEC 1.0>0.5
*F9 MKE-MCO SEP 1.0>0.6 OCT 1.0>0.5 NOV 1.0>0.7 DEC 1.2>0.7 JAN 0.4>0.3
*F9 MKE-PHX NOV 1.4>1.0 DEC 1.5>1.0 JAN 0.5>0.3
*F9 MKE-RSW NOV 0.4>0.2 DEC 0.5>0.2 JAN 0.3>0.1
*F9 MKE-SAN SEP 0.4>0.1
*F9 MKE-SEA SEP 0.5>0.2

You wonder what effect both WN and FL are having on F9 in MKE? That being said...I am not even sure F9 knows what it wants to be in MKE, the business oriented YX operation, or the LCC operation that F9 always has been?


DL is starting a capacity pulldown on international routes. They mentioned this the other day. Look for a lot of European routes, mainly JFK to get downsized. I also suspect that BOS won't sustain 2 LHR's daily either.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 1):

Part of the reason JFK & CVG are moving to HOU together is because they use the same aircraft. For now DL is keeping service to the top/largest cities from CVG.

But why the move to HOU in the first place? HOU is a bit closer to central Houston but are business travelers really going to flock to HOU over IAH, or is this going after B6?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

US CLT-HHH AUG 8>9
US CLT-LGA AUG 12>11
US CLT-PIT AUG 10>9
US CLT-SAV AUG 9>8
US CLT-TYS AUG 9>7
US CLT-YUL AUG 1.5>1.9
US PHL-BGR AUG 4>5
US PHL-LGA AUG 17>15
US PHL-PIT AUG 8>9
US PHL-SAV AUG 1.1>1.8
US PHL-YOW AUG 3>4
US PHX-FLG AUG 6>7

So only 15 LGA slots now for PHL, as opposed to the 20 that everyone on here mentions? Still too many imo. Looks like YUL and YOW get extra freqs as well as BGR, which surprises me. Nothing mindblowing here.


User currently offlineupsmd11 From United States of America, joined May 2003, 819 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10519 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

It is so sad to see the SDF-CVG route go. I do get to connect through there often and it's always nice to know that even if something happens to my connection that I'm still pretty close (90 miles) from home.

I can remember mainline on this route and the big hub there. But I do understand business is business and that DL needs to be profitable for it's share owners and not have a hub just for us A*Nutters.

John


User currently offlineflying_727 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 440 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10498 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
As expected the reduction was extended.
*AS SEA-MCO NOV 1.8>1.0 DEC 2>1.0 JAN 2>1.0

I think if AS could find a way to route the aircraft, they should consider shifting this flight to BLI. The canadian demand could likely fill the additional seats and/or allow for the additonal flight. The SEA PAX could be routed through BLI for the flight.

What do you guys think?

flying_727



On ATA, You're On Vacation
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6825 posts, RR: 32
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10200 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
I still don't understand the Houston swap.

I suppose it could be an experiment to see if the routes (JFK/CVG) perform better at HOU. If so, perhaps Delta would move more of their service to HOU now that the amount of connecting traffic they get at IAH is negligible. I'd have to eat my words about Delta only keeping HOU because FL flies ATL-HOU.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
The reduction in MKE-Florida for Winter is stunning and DEN can't provide connections to cover it either.

Not just that, but it looks like MKE-West Coast is completely gone, and their service from MKE to west of DEN will amount to a single daily to each of LAS and PHX. The Florida stuff looks like a lot of cancel-downs. By my reckoning, about 2/3 of F9's departures from MKE will be on the E135/145 -- this does not seem like a recipe for success with oil at $100/bbl.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL ATL-JAX SEP 12>11 OCT 12>11
DL ATL-OAJ OCT 4>5 NOV 4>5 DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5

Conservation of Jacksonville?   

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
5T JHL

What the heck is JHL?


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6825 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10191 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
I also suspect that BOS won't sustain 2 LHR's daily either.

It probably can't based on traffic, but they may need to operate the flights to keep the slots.


User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2998 posts, RR: 31
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10190 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*F9 MKE-FLL NOV 1.0>0.4 DEC 1.0>0.5
*F9 MKE-MCO SEP 1.0>0.6 OCT 1.0>0.5 NOV 1.0>0.7 DEC 1.2>0.7 JAN 0.4>0.3
*F9 MKE-PHX NOV 1.4>1.0 DEC 1.5>1.0 JAN 0.5>0.3
*F9 MKE-RSW NOV 0.4>0.2 DEC 0.5>0.2 JAN 0.3>0.1
*F9 MKE-SAN SEP 0.4>0.1
*F9 MKE-SEA SEP 0.5>0.2

The January schedule is only for the first 8 days of the month, so I don’t think it’s worth drawing conclusions from anything showing for January at the moment. And the real barn-burner Florida period doesn’t start until February.

As for fall cuts, here’s the scoop on what this is about. In general, there’s one fewer line of flying at MKE this fall, one which had been dedicated to Florida. Compared to last year, they are using slack in the schedule, and lift which was planned for a second MKE-PHX flight (which would have been year-over-year increase) to cover their Florida flying with one or in some cases two fewer aircraft than last year.

Here’s the year-over-year comparison, including what had been loaded and what’s now loaded for 2011. I also included load factor from last year, which can give an idea of why some of these markets are getting curtailed as the fleet is tight. These markets do far better in February/March/April, and we shall see in coming months what they plan for that period.

November
FLL
0.4 flown in 2010 at 80,0% load factor
1.0 was planned for 2011
0.4 now planned for 2011

MCO
1.4 flown in 2010 at 84.0% load factor
1.0 was planned for 2011
0.7 now planned for 2011

PHX
1.0 flown in 2010 at 88.7% load factor
1.4 was planned for 2011 (was planned for a year-over-year increase)
1.0 now planned for 2011

RSW
0.4 flown in 2010 at 64.6% load factor
0.4 was planned for 2011
0.2 now planned for 2011

PIE
0.4 flown in 2010 at 67.5% load factor
0.3 was planned for 2011
0.3 now planned for 2011


December
FLL
0.8 flown in 2010 at 80,6% load factor
1.0 was planned for 2011
0.5 now planned for 2011

MCO
1.0 flown in 2010 at 86,9% load factor
1.2 was planned for 2011
0.7 now planned for 2011

PHX
1.0 flown in 2010 at 74.5% load factor
1.5 was planned for 2011 (was planned for a year-over-year increase)
1.0 now planned for 2011

RSW
1.0 flown in 2010 at 70.0% load factor
0.5 was planned for 2011
0.2 now planned for 2011

PIE
0.8 flown in 2010 at 60.9% load factor
0.3 was planned for 2011
0.3 now planned for 2011

RSW, PIE and FLL average to those low numbers by having no service in (roughly) the first half of November and the first half of December, and then flying 3-4 times per week during the holiday periods. MCO has 3-4 times per week in the first half of November and December, and is daily during the holiday periods.

YX/F9 has been a relatively distant also-ran to Florida for three years going on four now, and of course these cuts increase that gap. But when you have to find lines of flying to remove, flying 2/3 full to Florida against an LCC in a lower-demand period is probably near the bottom of finanical return. These markets will carry less total traffic, but still be served by using fewer aircraft carrying higher loads. They won't be sending as many aircraft to chase fewer passengers in lower-demand early November and early December.

[Edited 2011-05-20 09:52:11]

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5594 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10183 times:

Quoting flying_727 (Reply 8):
I think if AS could find a way to route the aircraft, they should consider shifting this flight to BLI. The canadian demand could likely fill the additional seats and/or allow for the additonal flight. The SEA PAX could be routed through BLI for the flight.

I really don't think the reduction to MCO has to do with loads. I would expect AS could still fill 2x daily flights between SEA and MCO; I think it's yields and profitability and with fuel where it is, on a very long (transcon) and low-yielding flight, AS can simply find a better place to use the plane. IMO, SEA/BLI/PDX isn't the issue -- MCO is.

bb


User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2998 posts, RR: 31
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9993 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 9):
Not just that, but it looks like MKE-West Coast is completely gone, and their service from MKE to west of DEN will amount to a single daily to each of LAS and PHX.

None of that is really new, however. PHX and LAS have been 1x for quite some time except for a 2nd PHX flight for a few months during the spring peak in 2011. And the west coast has mostly been summer-only for years.

Fall 2010 (Oct/Nov/Dec)
LAX 19 total nonstops flown
SEA 5 total nonstops flight
SFO 19 total nonstops flown

Fall 2009
LAX 1 daly nonstop which turned into a less-than-daily redeye as winter progressed
SFO no nonstops
SEA no nonstops

Fall 2008
LAX no nonstops
SFO no nonstops
SEA no nonstops

The absense of west-coast nonstops this coming fall for Frontier is not especially new or surprising. It's been since 2007 that Midwest or Frontier had signficant west coast nonstops in fall or winter,

Quoting ScottB (Reply 9):
By my reckoning, about 2/3 of F9's departures from MKE will be on the E135/145 -- this does not seem like a recipe for success with oil at $100/bbl.

That's a true statement, atlhough again that's approximately what the ratio at Milwaukee has been for years. Now that fact doesn't make it any easier for them to break even with RJ's and $100 oil...of course not. But this isn't any sort of new touchstone or significant shift in MKE.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6825 posts, RR: 32
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9921 times:

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 13):
that's approximately what the ratio at Milwaukee has been for years. Now that fact doesn't make it any easier for them to break even with RJ's and $100 oil...of course not. But this isn't any sort of new touchstone or significant shift in MKE.

And YX's operation was barely profitable in 2006 and 2007 before oil made its meteoric rise in 2008, and the subsequent heavy losses are what pushed TPG/Delta/NWA to write down nearly their entire investment and give Midwest to Republic for near nothing. So it does not seem that the strategy in place for fall/winter will turn things around.


User currently offlinekbmiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 134 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9597 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AA DFW-DRO AUG 1.0>0.7 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0.5

Was this route intended by seasonal when they started it, or is it just not performing well?


User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2998 posts, RR: 31
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9580 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 14):
And YX's operation was barely profitable in 2006 and 2007 before oil made its meteoric rise in 2008, and the subsequent heavy losses are what pushed TPG/Delta/NWA to write down nearly their entire investment and give Midwest to Republic for near nothing. So it does not seem that the strategy in place for fall/winter will turn things around.

That line of thinking only works if one assumes that the reason for the losses you described were due to the RJ flying.

A great deal has changed since that period...

--No longer flying mainline aicraft with 15-25% fewer seats than designed capacity
--No longer flying aged M80's against new-generation 737's
--No longer flying 32-seat FRJ...an aircraft that makes the ERJ look like an economic star
--No longer paying fee-for-departure rates for Skywest CRJ and Republic E170
--No longer trying to beat the competition into submission by flying high capacity on money-pit long-haul leisure routes with uncompetitive aircraft

On that last point...the lackof west coast nonstops in the fall/winter period is a decided improvement over what Midwest used to do, because they lost their shirts flying M80 to the west coast in the off season. Even without competition.

That certainly does not mean that they don't face serious challenges at MKE, especially if oil stays high or rises. But to say that the strategy in place for fall/winter is no better than what YX used to do overlooks a ton of changes.


User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2484 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9115 times:
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Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
M5 BFI-SEA JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0

Are they actually planning on flying a plane on the route now?? Seems really odd to me.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7680 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9089 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 9):
I suppose it could be an experiment to see if the routes (JFK/CVG) perform better at HOU. If so, perhaps Delta would move more of their service to HOU now that the amount of connecting traffic they get at IAH is negligible. I'd have to eat my words about Delta only keeping HOU because FL flies ATL-HOU.
Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
But why the move to HOU in the first place?
Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 1):
Part of the reason JFK & CVG are moving to HOU together is because they use the same aircraft. For now DL is keeping service to the top/largest cities from CVG.

I will give that is part of the reason, but what is the rest of the reason? To fly from WN's hub to places they choose not to? I don't get it.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 1):
DTW-PEK is a new route this summer at 5 daily, so going 4 daily really isn't a big deal.

It's never good to see freq reduced before it even starts.  
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):
MON is the ICAO code for Monarch Airlines, a charter carrier in the UK. They also use the IATA code ZB.

As I celebrate my 2000th post on a.net as of this post, I would also like to thank enilria for these wonderful and highly informative schedule change threads.

Thank you.  
Is this service new or is it getting loaded in OAG for the first time?

Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
So only 15 LGA slots now for PHL, as opposed to the 20 that everyone on here mentions?

You mean 30 slots!!! LOL Nevertheless, that change is August only.  
Quoting flying_727 (Reply 8):
I think if AS could find a way to route the aircraft, they should consider shifting this flight to BLI.

That would be ballsy. I'd be surprised.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 9):
By my reckoning, about 2/3 of F9's departures from MKE will be on the E135/145 -- this does not seem like a recipe for success with oil at $100/bbl.
Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
You wonder what effect both WN and FL are having on F9 in MKE?

ATTENTION: RED MEAT FOR THE F9/MKE DEBATE
I've posted before that MKE has gained all the capacity that CVG has lost. Does anybody see an outcome where both F9 and WN/FL de-hub MKE? F9 nearly already has and WN is more or less expected to. Maybe it will go back to a more balanced service pattern w/DL jumping back in. I can imagine something like this...and I'm just listing a few routes, not all MKE service.

MKE-
DCA DL (or US) & F9
BWI WN
IAD UA

LGA DL & F9
EWR UA
JFK DL

ATL WN DL

DFW AA
DAL WN 2014

BDL/BOS Nothing

MCO WN DL
RSW DL
TPA WN

LAS F9 WN
PHX US WN
LAX WN
SFO Nothing

DEN F9 UA WN

MSP DL WN
MCI WN F9
STL WN F9
OMA F9

Quoting ScottB (Reply 9):
Conservation of Jacksonville?

LOL

Quoting ScottB (Reply 9):
What the heck is JHL?

Don't ask me. Is it in google?

Quoting ScottB (Reply 10):
Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
I also suspect that BOS won't sustain 2 LHR's daily either.

It probably can't based on traffic, but they may need to operate the flights to keep the slots.

If the slots are seasonal they could afford to lose a SEP/OCT slot ad infinitum.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 11):
And the real barn-burner Florida period doesn’t start until February.

Christmas is pretty great to Florida by my reckoning.


User currently offlineyegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1732 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9029 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
5T JHL-YEG JUN 0>1.6 JUL 0>1.5 AUG 0>1.7 SEP 0>1.5 OCT 0>1.5 NOV 0>1.6 DEC 0>1.5 JAN 0>1.6
5T JHL-YKA JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2 SEP 0>0.1 OCT 0>0.1 NOV 0>0.2 DEC 0>0.1 JAN 0>0.2
5T JHL-YQT JUN 0>0.2 JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2 SEP 0>0.1 OCT 0>0.1 NOV 0>0.2 DEC 0>0.1 JAN 0>0.1
5T JHL-YWG JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2 SEP 0>0.1 OCT 0>0.2 NOV 0>0.1 DEC 0>0.1 JAN 0>0.2
5T JHL-YXE JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2 SEP 0>0.1 OCT 0>0.1 NOV 0>0.2 DEC 0>0.1 JAN 0>0.2
5T JHL-YYC JUN 0>0.2 JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.1 SEP 0>0.2 OCT 0>0.1 NOV 0>0.1 DEC 0>0.2 JAN 0>0.1

What the heck is JHL?


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25690 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9018 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
You wonder what effect both WN and FL are having on F9 in MKE?

Given the Airtran Q1 numbers, at least as reported to the staff by the Republic CEO, I wonder what effect Frontier was having on Airtran at MKE? LOL.

Ah, well, it is Southwest's problem now.

Quoting enilria (Reply 18):
ATTENTION: RED MEAT FOR THE F9/MKE DEBATE

If it goes back to a "more balanced pattern" (your words) why is that red meat?

As I said in the Frontier threads a while ago, I'm hoping to see MKE sorted out.

mariner

[Edited 2011-05-20 12:26:54]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5209 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8906 times:

The only reason for DL to keep some service at IAH is for the international connections. They still feed a littke into AF, AM, KL, as well as interlining. Other than that I could see HOU being a more desirable station, plus the largest DL would probably ever fly in, the 757, can be handled at HOU.


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6825 posts, RR: 32
Reply 22, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8737 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 18):
BDL/BOS Nothing

MKE-BOS on someone (DL/F9/WN/B6) sticks around since it has over 500 PDEW; there's probably a good reason why it was one of YX's first routes back in the days when Kimberley-Clark owned them.

Quoting enilria (Reply 18):
Does anybody see an outcome where both F9 and WN/FL de-hub MKE? F9 nearly already has and WN is more or less expected to.

As I see it, F9 drops the MKE hub if WN keeps most or all of MKE-DCA/LGA/BOS. If RAH is not willing to sustain losses on MKE-LAX/SFO for the summer, they're not going to eat losses on the East Coast routes indefinitely. If WN drops the FL hub flying at MKE, then the F9 hub stays and MKE-LAX/SFO on F9 probably comes back, too.

The E135/E145 service, apart from the EAS flying, is probably tied to, at a bare minimum, a continued presence in the East Coast markets; I don't think a MKE regional jet hublet works otherwise (i.e. MKE-GRB/ATW/MSN/DSM/OMA probably needs MKE-BOS/LGA/DCA; MKE-BDL/EWR/PIT/PHL/BNA/SDF/IND probably needs MKE-GRB/ATW/MSN/DSM/OMA and so on).

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 16):
--No longer flying mainline aicraft with 15-25% fewer seats than designed capacity

True, but later in the game (i.e. 2007-2008), the capacity difference was likely closer to 10% with the introduction of two-class seating on the 717 fleet. Given the load factor numbers you have posted, the problem likely was not having too few seats on offer.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 16):
--No longer flying aged M80's against new-generation 737's

No, but I'm not convinced that the seat-mile cost for an E190 is significantly better than for an "aged M80." Obviously RASM can be better since you have fewer seats to sell.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 16):
--No longer flying 32-seat FRJ...an aircraft that makes the ERJ look like an economic star

I'm not certain 37-seat E135's are much better.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 16):
No longer trying to beat the competition into submission by flying high capacity on money-pit long-haul leisure routes with uncompetitive aircraft

But the losses started even before FL started building up MKE in a big way.

Quoting enilria (Reply 18):
Is it in google?

I tried that first -- came up with a heliport in Quebec?

Quoting enilria (Reply 18):
If the slots are seasonal they could afford to lose a SEP/OCT slot ad infinitum.

I don't know what the conditions are on the slot lease from AA/BA.


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4326 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8662 times:
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Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
MON SFB-LGW JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3 SEP 0>0.3 OCT 0>0.3 NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.3
*MON SFB-MAN JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.4 AUG 0>0.6 SEP 0>0.6 OCT 0>0.3 NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.3

Looks like someone didn't know Monarch's IATA code.


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4326 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8643 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*MON SFB-LGW JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3 SEP 0>0.3 OCT 0>0.3 NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.3
*MON SFB-MAN JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.4 AUG 0>0.6 SEP 0>0.6 OCT 0>0.3 NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.3

MON is the ICAO code for Monarch Airlines, a charter carrier in the UK. They also use the IATA code ZB.

As I celebrate my 2000th post on a.net as of this post, I would also like to thank enilria for these wonderful and highly informative schedule change threads.


Congratulations!

And many happy returns.  


25 yellowtail : What's up with JFK-LCY?
26 JaxMan19 : Maybe they upgraded the aircraft in the schedule because I know this summer there is like 3-4x M80 maybe they'll substitute 2x 757 for those M80's?
27 slcdeltarumd11 : MKE is really starting to get interesting. I think Frontier is just looking for temporary solutions to loose less in the mean time while southwest dec
28 mariner : Republic CEO has frequently said that the real enemy is not Southwest - at DEN or MKE - but oil at $100 plus. I don't think there can be any assumpti
29 crAAzy : With AA's success of MKE-DFW mainline service, I wonder if AA might consider this an opportunity to look at a non-stop MKE-MIA flight.
30 slcdeltarumd11 : Your craazy
31 Post contains images crAAzy : LOL ... I know ... wishful thinking I guess . Unfortunately, this is going to mean much higher prices to Florida from MKE for the season.
32 flyguy89 : Really?! C'mon, this is an easy entrance for F9 or UA mainline!
33 slcdeltarumd11 : I wouldn't be surprised to see one of them jump on this opportunity. More like Crj-700 or E90 route if i had to make a wild guess. Knowing Deltas "de
34 United1 : UA already flies double daily DEN-CVG (CRJ-700 and an ERJ-145.)
35 knope2001 : I think people really miss the mark thinking that MKE-west coast is anything like MKE-east coast. The east coast is not a money pit like the west coa
36 flyguy89 : I knew that UA already flew the route (didn't know they used an ERJ-145 though! that cannot be pleasant), I was specifically talking about either A)
37 Post contains images United1 : I'm actually shocked that the mainline flight is still there (as it means that UA Mainline employees work at CVG) but I suppose the powers that be kn
38 Post contains images Humberside : Agreed These services have been running for years. As they are charters MON is the correct code to use (ZB is for scheduled services only) but weird
39 flyguy89 : Could very well be true but I think there's probably a decent contingent of O&D between CVG and DEN if DL is still using mainline flights along-s
40 flyb : Yes what in the world (or where) is JHL.
41 DCA-ROCguy : I for one doubt that. $100 oil is not sustainable. Economies will contract to discipline it; some indicators in the US indicate that it's already hap
42 Post contains links mariner : I can't know the future - and I'd like to agree with you - but Goldman Sachs argue otherwise. http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&
43 Post contains links JetBlueGuy2006 : Some other interesting news for SY out of Lansing. It was announced this week that they will be launching Punta Cana this winter, along with resuming
44 United1 : Well I don't know if mainline will happen but looks like UA is adding a 3rd daily UAX flight between CVG and DEN. All three flights will be operated
45 skoker : Anybody have ANY idea as to what this is?!?
46 enilria : I didn't realize MKE-BOS is that big. I guess what my "red meat" envisions is a scenario where F9 pulls way back (kind of like they already did) and
47 mariner : You must have a very poor opinion of CEO's. mariner
48 slcdeltarumd11 : Where do where do we think WN will move the LGA and DCA to MKE slots? I would guess for LGA 1x to DEN and 2x to MDW and keep 2x to MKE at first maybe
49 Post contains images kgaiflyer : WN does have a competitive, uniform product. But it's small things. For instance, I only fly them two or three times a year and always on either 'Seni
50 knope2001 : No certainty they will move all of them, or even some of them. Two slightly different ways to look at it. If Southwest views the AirTran takeover pri
51 RWA380 : I was going to ask this as well. Any thoughts?
52 enilria : I am repeatedly flabbergasted that you believe CEOs never tell lies or half-truths where it benefits them or their companies. We don't live in a land
53 knope2001 : Yeah I agree. LGA-MKE has a better shot at surviving because: --WN already has a fairly small number of slots, including servnig LGA-MDW with five fl
54 enilria : I think MKE-LGA at 2X is kind of best case scenario. I was told there is only one slot pair that is at risk. Regardless, WN probably would be fine wi
55 Post contains images kgaiflyer : My neighbor who is a small businessman sometimes tells me, "Business and Ethics begin with different letters of the alphabet for a reason." But he's
56 knope2001 : I don't believe any LGA slots are part of any special program. As for the DCA slots, AirTran has had a number of awards in recent years: --An award fo
57 enilria : I mean, lets be honest, the whole purpose of Public Relations is to take bad news and make it seem like good news. Good news spreads itself. I might
58 knope2001 : Are there Air21 slot awards at LGA? I didn't think so. If there are, the process doesn't seem to be anything like the DCA situation. I don't ever rec
59 enilria : If you google "La Guardia" and "Air-21" you will get numerous references to applicable slots. It is worth noting, however, that it seems like LGA slo
60 ScottB : It is impossible to know with certainty (unless one is in on the planning at SWA) what they will do with their LGA slots, but IMO it is obvious that
61 Post contains images enilria : From what I have determined, most of the planning team is also in the dark. I think the knowledge of what will happen is limited to maybe 8 people fr
62 ScottB : Well, Frontier isn't just an airline, it's an asset management strategy. They're stuck with E135/145's that their legacy carrier customers don't want
63 Post contains images enilria : Maybe it is only an asset management strategy. I'm certain they would lose less parked. I imagine there are labor reasons why that doesn't happen. Tr
64 knope2001 : This is a frequent point I hear, but I don’t think the details back that up. Where are the surplus RJ’s flying in the Frontier system that wasn
65 mariner : When I did say they never tell lies or half-truths? But equally they don't all always tell lies or half truths and any number of CEO's are known to b
66 enilria : What that statement ignores is that since 2007, departures on RJs with 50 seats or less has fallen 24% nationally. RJs with less than 50 seats have f
67 enilria : To raise another point, if WN were to retain DCA/LGA from MKE (unlikely) and F9 completely bailed out of the "hub", where could they reasonably opera
68 ScottB : Well, as an idea outside of the box, perhaps they would simply use their former YX/F9 slots for Delta Connection/LGA flying and US Airways Express/DC
69 enilria : Wow, talk about a potential perversion of the process. They award a limited incumbent LCC slots and then they transfer them to a sibling company wher
70 mariner : I see that you cover yourself by saying it is an idea "outside the box" but I have seen no evidence that Frontier intends to do that. I think it woul
71 enilria : Well, speculating about what could happen is a.net sport. While I would agree with you that would be a travesty, it is an interesting possibility. As
72 mariner : A sport mushrooming like the Icelandic ash cloud in this thread, obscuring reality. And when did I say it would be a travesty? I may - stress "may" -
73 steex : I almost hate to enter this discussion - though I very much enjoy following, I'm not nearly as informed on the airlines in question (or MKE in genera
74 ScottB : They're going to have a difficult time in competitions for slots unless/until they sell the slots formerly owned by US Airways back to US Airways (or
75 knope2001 : I think I understand your point of view better. The assertion you’re making isn’t so much that Frontier operation is being stuck with ERJ’s to r
76 mariner : Each to their own. I can think of several other uses for those slots. Indeed it is. I thought I had already said that. mariner
77 FutureUScapt : I apologize if this has already been mentioned previously in this thread, but I didn't see it in the original post - DL will end its short-lived JAX-M
78 enilria : Interesting how you couch that. LOL You so quickly snapped at the thought of it that it seemed you also thought it was a perversion of the system. We
79 mariner : I jumped at it because it seemed so (a) unlikely and (b) extreme. There are other far more obvious uses for those slots, but what's the point? It is
80 knope2001 : I think I get your point....big airplanes are lower cost, and and so getting rid of E170 but not the even smaller aircraft (RJ) hurts total cost, and
81 Post contains images enilria : BB acquired the E190s because he clearly believes the future is operating 90 seaters for the legacies, however, scope still prevents that so he is in
82 bahadir : Can we move this discusssion to Frontier thread instead of OAG changes...
83 Post contains images enilria : Perhaps...there is a lot more shouting over there, though... (
84 slcdeltarumd11 : LAX-MIA is a 737 redeye which is bad because I'm not sure it could ever be more that just ok at best. Its not gonna be a magnet for business traveler
85 mariner : Ten of the ER190's were purchased from US Airways after the acquisition and specifically for Frontier. Scope is why some of the legacies are trading
86 enilria : You just made my point. *IF* the 70 seaters are really not profitable going forward (not sure I agree, but BB probably does) the smart thing to do is
87 mariner : If I "made your point" then your point is really, really obscure to me, and, based on your previous posts (and in this thread), seems to be inconsist
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